Vaccine passports have been around since the 1940s and they aren’t going away. If you aren’t aware of this, it means you don’t travel internationally so this action (by a private entity nonetheless) is not going to affect you whatsoever. Snowflakes be snowflakes.
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Airline Body IATA to Launch COVID-19 Travel Passport App in April
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SAME! Its been a tough year.
My mother had just got her second shot a couple weeks ago, my brother and I both got our first shots last week. I can't wait till we can have big family events again.
My fiancee and I are flying to Walt Disney World in December (planning our wedding!
) I got it so we can safely fly there and be there safely EVEN with the restrictions in place (WDW has already said Masks till teh end of the year will be required).
But they won't just stay home. They have the right to go anywhere without a mask and/or a vaccine
and infect the rest of us! I want to be able to fly to florida and you're right this is exactly what's needed
to keep the infected at home!
Whether or not you are a plague rat is everyone's business.
If you don't get the shots, work from home and have your food delivered. Decent people don't want to be around you.
The way the system works, they print out a scannable barcode and you keep it next to your drivers license. You can even get it laminated if you want.
The last study I read, I think you were something like 1/10 as likely to spread the virus two weeks after getting both shots.
This is something that is being studied. It is probably the most studied question in virology at the moment. It looks like people are about 1/10th as likely to spread the virus after they have had the shot.
When people go into public but have not been vaccinated, it's like the people who take half a bottle of antibiotics, then stop. What you are doing is killing off the weak bacteria and training the remainder how to survive the treatment. You make the antibiotic worthless. The same thing will happen if more than 30% of the population does not get vaccinated. There will be enough people for the virus to continue. At the same time, those that become resistant to the antibodies created by the vaccine will have a competitive advantage. The virus will become more aggressive and harder to control.
The country you’re going travelling to for your vacation may disagree.
I was on a Covid-19 task force in the tri-State area last year. This was a big question as well as the efficacy of the vaccines (they may last only 3-5 months and require boosters yet we won't know until months from now).
To answer the referenced question: Surprisingly we have found there is a near zero transmission rate between vaccinated individuals and even between a vaccinated individual to an unvaccinated individual, suggesting vaccinated individuals contain/"kill" the virus which is a big puzzler. The data is very preliminary and we'll need a longer period of time and diverse N to analyze the statistical correlations but if we maintain the R0/slippery rate thus decrease the risk of more variants via transmission then the results are much more promising than we anticipated.
By biggest concern is the efficacy of the vaccines. I hope they last longer but over time our systems will develop immunity with safe, controlled exposure. That won't happen until everyone is vaccinated and we all develop proper immune defenses.
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I had to get several vaccines before I travelled to Nepal. Vaccine passports have already existed for years. This is not new.
Not sure where you are, but speaking for the US-
1. the government has said that by next month, the vaccine must be available to everyone over 18. So they’re not being very selective, are they?
2. There were already countries that require proof of vaccination against specific diseases before you’re allowed to enter. Long before covid19.
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The difference here is that this will be a digital code that you'd be required to display providing (some would argue) details into your medical records and some argue the security surrounding these records is troubling.
There are two paths ahead. Everyone will be required to choose.
Any idea how often this was discussed for HIV/AIDS?
while we are at it for COVID-19. Let’s add Herpes, Hepatitis, Ecoli, Streptococcus Pneumoniae…. Christ the list of contagions is endless.
This passport is a plan bred of discrimination and fear that will lead to more discrimination and fear.
Even if the damn vaccines today kill off the 99.9% of the strains of this Corona virus. It will only make room for an even more insidious permutation to take hold.
Sadly few people and fewer scientists than you’d imagine understand the fundamentals of ecological balance and homeostatic systems. This virus exists because it is filling a void created by a shift in ecological balance. Just ripping it out of the system leaves a hole which gets filled by another pathogen and so on.
Jesus 99% of the chronic illnesses we deal with today are borne of treatments to more acute illnesses we believed to have “cured” or eradicated in the past.
Think antibiotics and gut micro biome. Most gastroenterologists didn’t even have a clue about this science just a decade ago. Now that had changed and things like probiotics and a more prudent approach to antibiotic therapy is employed.
bottom line, we should not and cannot effectively indefinitely identify people by the state of their health. It’s a moving target.
all that said, if this program is time limited with a definitive end date, then it may be viable as a stop gap. But not in any way should it become a standard.
The science is showing that vaccinated people are also significantly less likely to transmit the virus. With biology nothing is ever 100% though. Responses to the pandemic have always been, and continue to be about risk management.
List 1 legitimate justification for a vaccine passport, when this vaccine does not prevent you from contracting or transmitting the virus to anyone. Every single vaccinated person can carry and transmit the virus to others.
We'll wait. Hint: there isn't one. This is entirely about control, and if you don't understand that, you are hopelessly naive.
I'm not sure why people think it's their right to go wherever they like potentially carrying and transmitting a deadly virus to vulnerable individuals. In civil society we give up lots of "rights" for the common good.
I like your optimism re a second path being available—though it may only lead to the reclusive village of readers in Fahrenheit 451.
I for one think that at least this is a better process and group to do this than A government or across multiple governments. The problem will be, there are going to be so many streams of information, sources of verification that getting them all up streamed and validated up to a single group, database and then APP is going to prove much more difficult than just creating the app securely.
As many have noted, there have been vaccine REQUIREMENTS if not true “passports” for many years, decades for many countries. I know everytime I travel to various parts of the African continent I know I have to actually HAVE my yellow fever shot card (it’s easy to locate since well, it’s YELLOW) plus 2-3 other vaccinations proof depending on where I am travelling to. I‘s never been more organized than that, no “passport” to hold them all or anything and of course no database.
While using IATA to do this is a good start, actually HAVING them do it and getting it right, all the coordination done, all the SECURITY required! Is going to prove much more challenging.
As many have noted, there have been vaccine REQUIREMENTS if not true “passports” for many years, decades for many countries. I know everytime I travel to various parts of the African continent I know I have to actually HAVE my yellow fever shot card (it’s easy to locate since well, it’s YELLOW) plus 2-3 other vaccinations proof depending on where I am travelling to. I‘s never been more organized than that, no “passport” to hold them all or anything and of course no database.
While using IATA to do this is a good start, actually HAVING them do it and getting it right, all the coordination done, all the SECURITY required! Is going to prove much more challenging.
Yea, the old WHO yellow Card. Last time i asked my MD to check if I needed anything he commented that I have vaccinations for diseases only seen in tiny parts of the world. I told him they're just totems of a misspent youth.
Exactly. The hypocrisy of the "it's my private business/property/etc. and can serve whoever i want and do with it what I want but you cant establish rules to keep people safe is amazing; the (R) Governor of Florida who issues an edict that private businesses can't require proof of vaccination, but God forbid the Federal government passes a law telling a business what they can and can't do.
I would love an app that replaces my WHO card and links to my vaccination record at public health so it is up to date; although I'll still keep my yellow book with me just in case the battery dies.
Sure, and they can fire you for it. The whole "freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences" thing is often forgotten when people argue about their rights being violated.
Don't bring facts into the debate; you're obviously not listening to the right (literally and figuratively) news sources.
Glad to see there are so many MR readers here that can use that thing between their shoulders. This is setting a dangerous precedent, needing to prove your vaccination (of which just masks your symptoms, not actually causing the spread to decrease at all....) to be able to literally travel somewhere. I’m sure this will then spread elsewhere. Movies? Need a vax card. Need your groceries? Sorry, you can’t come in because you may infect someone. That mask you have on doesn’t work anymore.
Maybe, but I'll swap my iPhone for home ownership, retirement savings and medical insurances any day of the week...
The vaccinations are not protecting against "potentially carrying and transmitting," according to CDC (which is why you need to wear your masks even following your vaccination). Of course, CDC has not always gotten things right, so... (Recall how they told everyone to NOT wear masks early last year?)