Amazon Listing for Dual 2.7 Ghz PowerMac
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archangel37
macrumors member
Your argument, while I think an important one, lacks something. First, let's get serious here. Current powermacs aren't weak, so updated ones certainly won't be either.
That said, it is true that the top end speed does affect the mid/low end markets. Apple can't put an iMac at 2.5ghz if even the midrange Powermac can't get there. Here's where your argument gets sticky, however. This problem doesn't immediately turn into lower market share. It's logical that might happen, but not envitable. And even though Apple's market share has indeed gone down a bit over the past few years (anyone know when its high was?), developers haven't abandoned the platform. Next, people know that macs currently are the best for gamers. Sad maybe, but true. And people still buy the mac mini. Go figure. This update may indeed mean that you have to put off getting the imac you want, but that doesn't translate into everyone lese making the same decision, or in your logic holding true for developers.
Let's not forget that Apple is very much still a big player in the software side of the pro market. In many cases, Apple software is the only way to go for pros. That won't change tomorrow, whatever the update. And thankfully we've seen Apple step into roles that it feels other developers are lacking. So, god forbid Adobe discontinued Photoshop, it wouldn't be unthinkable for Apple to develop its own and make iPhoto more powerful as well.
The HD market is one area where lacking in computing power is a real concern. As we've all heard, HD work is very taxing on a computer, and the more power the better. Then again, for many companies, no one does HD software better than Apple.
Food for thought though. Doom 3 and HD, that's what we need dual dual core 3 ghz beasts!
That said, it is true that the top end speed does affect the mid/low end markets. Apple can't put an iMac at 2.5ghz if even the midrange Powermac can't get there. Here's where your argument gets sticky, however. This problem doesn't immediately turn into lower market share. It's logical that might happen, but not envitable. And even though Apple's market share has indeed gone down a bit over the past few years (anyone know when its high was?), developers haven't abandoned the platform. Next, people know that macs currently are the best for gamers. Sad maybe, but true. And people still buy the mac mini. Go figure. This update may indeed mean that you have to put off getting the imac you want, but that doesn't translate into everyone lese making the same decision, or in your logic holding true for developers.
Let's not forget that Apple is very much still a big player in the software side of the pro market. In many cases, Apple software is the only way to go for pros. That won't change tomorrow, whatever the update. And thankfully we've seen Apple step into roles that it feels other developers are lacking. So, god forbid Adobe discontinued Photoshop, it wouldn't be unthinkable for Apple to develop its own and make iPhoto more powerful as well.
The HD market is one area where lacking in computing power is a real concern. As we've all heard, HD work is very taxing on a computer, and the more power the better. Then again, for many companies, no one does HD software better than Apple.
Food for thought though. Doom 3 and HD, that's what we need dual dual core 3 ghz beasts!
andiwm2003 said:
same as always
I've barely started reading about ten pages of the whole thread and have become absolutely bored with the same comments over and over again.
If Apple released a PowerMac with a 3.0GHz processor, there would still be plenty of the same complaints. "Ha! Finally! It was about time! Only one year overdue!!" I can hear you already.. sheesh!!
First of all, one of the things thar distinguishes a Mac from a PC in the market is that it has a much higher resell value even after a year and sometimes two. So it isn't very surprising for all those people who bought a dual 2Ghz PM to be happy about it. Just stop rubbing it in the face of all the complainers, please!
Mac users are supposed to know that their computer will not be outdated until quite some time and apparantly Apple has selected how they build their computers up until now with that in mind. I don't think a PowerMac G5 is the fastest computer out there. Apple isn't telling you that either. However, it is fast, very fast and they are getting the best out of it. If you always want to have the fastest computer you can buy, maybe you guys are looking in the wrong place (Apple).
There is no pleasing people who only care about having the fastest computer on the market and not how productive you can actually be with the best computer Apple currently has to offer. Haven't you ever noticed how Apple is constantly releasing articles about how small companies and producers and film makers make the best out of their Mac? That is what Apple cares about.
There is pleasing people who want to have an overall outstanding computer that allows them to be highly productive and still have a high resell value.
I'm not a fanboy or whatever by the way. I'm not too excited about this possible update either. But that doesn't mean that the PowerMac is still the best Apple has and if you don't like it well...
I've barely started reading about ten pages of the whole thread and have become absolutely bored with the same comments over and over again.
If Apple released a PowerMac with a 3.0GHz processor, there would still be plenty of the same complaints. "Ha! Finally! It was about time! Only one year overdue!!" I can hear you already.. sheesh!!
First of all, one of the things thar distinguishes a Mac from a PC in the market is that it has a much higher resell value even after a year and sometimes two. So it isn't very surprising for all those people who bought a dual 2Ghz PM to be happy about it. Just stop rubbing it in the face of all the complainers, please!
Mac users are supposed to know that their computer will not be outdated until quite some time and apparantly Apple has selected how they build their computers up until now with that in mind. I don't think a PowerMac G5 is the fastest computer out there. Apple isn't telling you that either. However, it is fast, very fast and they are getting the best out of it. If you always want to have the fastest computer you can buy, maybe you guys are looking in the wrong place (Apple).
There is no pleasing people who only care about having the fastest computer on the market and not how productive you can actually be with the best computer Apple currently has to offer. Haven't you ever noticed how Apple is constantly releasing articles about how small companies and producers and film makers make the best out of their Mac? That is what Apple cares about.
There is pleasing people who want to have an overall outstanding computer that allows them to be highly productive and still have a high resell value.
I'm not a fanboy or whatever by the way. I'm not too excited about this possible update either. But that doesn't mean that the PowerMac is still the best Apple has and if you don't like it well...
zimtheinvader
macrumors regular
out of curiousity
Purely out of curiousity, if Apple releases PM updates now and has already shipped Tiger, then what will it be doing at WWDC??
Purely out of curiousity, if Apple releases PM updates now and has already shipped Tiger, then what will it be doing at WWDC??
fluidinclusion
macrumors regular
That's exactly what I mean.
That's exactly what I was referring to. Really not critical if you're not maxing out the RAM or using the other features. I myself am considering a low end Powermac, but I'll probably get a new iMac when they are updated. That's what my wife wants us to get to supplement our Powerbook we bought last year.
archangel37 said:
That's exactly what I was referring to. Really not critical if you're not maxing out the RAM or using the other features. I myself am considering a low end Powermac, but I'll probably get a new iMac when they are updated. That's what my wife wants us to get to supplement our Powerbook we bought last year.
fluidinclusion
macrumors regular
iMacs, mini
Unfortunately, probably iMac updates. (I want them released sooner so I can buy one now).
zimtheinvader said:
Unfortunately, probably iMac updates. (I want them released sooner so I can buy one now).
fluidinclusion
macrumors regular
CELL?
What's the possibility that these Powermacs have dual single-core 970's, but have a CELL processor to help speed things up? Would this be impossible? Would it be seen only if PCIe and other updates had also been done?
What's the possibility that these Powermacs have dual single-core 970's, but have a CELL processor to help speed things up? Would this be impossible? Would it be seen only if PCIe and other updates had also been done?
cubedco
macrumors newbie
Would PC people stop F@#4king replying with their ignorant "$2k with half a gig of ram is unacceptable". I use to own a PC (since DOS 5) and let me tell you, you pay a premium when you buy Apple.
1) 1 in 33 computer users own a mac. ie: cost of hardware is much more expensive compared to HP/Dell, etc...
2) Apple spends tons of money on R&D which doens't come free -- crack open a G5 case. notice something your PC doesn't have? ie: fans that interlock... no wires.. i could go on but i'd rather not waste my breath. and btw, that alumium case alone is ~$300.
3) Most importantly: High price & small market share is what makes apple great. It's why we've had ~5 revisions of OS X since it first debuted.
It's called mobility not elitism -- and it's why we love em. Especially designers/artists who are typically ADD/OCD as it is -- we need constsant change & computers that are spotless inside and out!!!! Good design is never cheap.
/european *spat*... i pitty da foo.
here's to you Dell dudes. <'> { -.- } <'>
1) 1 in 33 computer users own a mac. ie: cost of hardware is much more expensive compared to HP/Dell, etc...
2) Apple spends tons of money on R&D which doens't come free -- crack open a G5 case. notice something your PC doesn't have? ie: fans that interlock... no wires.. i could go on but i'd rather not waste my breath. and btw, that alumium case alone is ~$300.
3) Most importantly: High price & small market share is what makes apple great. It's why we've had ~5 revisions of OS X since it first debuted.
It's called mobility not elitism -- and it's why we love em. Especially designers/artists who are typically ADD/OCD as it is -- we need constsant change & computers that are spotless inside and out!!!! Good design is never cheap.
/european *spat*... i pitty da foo.
here's to you Dell dudes. <'> { -.- } <'>
Any actual increase in DVD value?
But the 16X dual layer DVD is only a $88 price by itself. Deduct the price of an 8X drive & you get an idea of the added value of this the biggest increase item. With no 3GHz model Apple needs to cut the price of their PowerMac models just like they do with the blah blah increases in the PowerBook.
No new PowerMac for me. Too little of a change in technology & price to justify a purchase. Steve Jobs will be continuing to complain about the lack of PowerMac & PowerBook sales for the next 8-12 months. Or maybe longer if the next increases are such a poor showing. 8% processor speed increase with only a marginal increase in other items = a so-so new model line.
Bill the TaxMan
Twin Dual 1.25 GHz Ge PowerMacs, 1.67 GHz 17" PowerBook, 40 GB iPod, 1 GB iPod Shuffle, & several PowerComputing & UMax Clones.
MustardMan said:
But the 16X dual layer DVD is only a $88 price by itself. Deduct the price of an 8X drive & you get an idea of the added value of this the biggest increase item. With no 3GHz model Apple needs to cut the price of their PowerMac models just like they do with the blah blah increases in the PowerBook.
No new PowerMac for me. Too little of a change in technology & price to justify a purchase. Steve Jobs will be continuing to complain about the lack of PowerMac & PowerBook sales for the next 8-12 months. Or maybe longer if the next increases are such a poor showing. 8% processor speed increase with only a marginal increase in other items = a so-so new model line.
Bill the TaxMan
Twin Dual 1.25 GHz Ge PowerMacs, 1.67 GHz 17" PowerBook, 40 GB iPod, 1 GB iPod Shuffle, & several PowerComputing & UMax Clones.
Cooknn
macrumors 68020
Heh, great point. I just cracked open my G5 Power Mac it's 18 months old - ALMOST NO DUST. It's obvious a lot of thought went into the design. I've had to blow out many PC's in my day, and my condo is by no means the cleanest on the block. Yet my G5 stays pristine. This Box Rockscubedco said:
I had planned to lay out some real cash for a high spec machine but it seems apple is unwilling or unable to come up with the goods. I will be looking at other alternatives now. I may end up getting a solaris workstation to do the modelling on and a low end machine for everthing else. But needing 2 machines when Apple could have sold me a high end workstation sucks and i have been using these things since the 512k box 17 years ago, a truly sad day. Using OS X has given me enough unix that I am willing to get a real workstation if apple will not sell me one.
Kerry Sanders
macrumors regular
Narles said:
You are stronger than I am. I would have already torn into that puppy. I think I saw someone else reply that they doubted that any of the refurb prices would be dropped. I tend to agree with that.
I would argue that the hardware is not THAT important. For CPU tests (see the barefeats article mentioned earlier), "Apple" is pretty close to the competition, while severly lags (using similar hardware) in gaming. Fact:a dual G5 is not that impressive UNTIL software takes advantage of both CPUs AND Altivec. I would argue that it would be worth Apple's marketing while $$ to pay millions to make Photoshop, Doom, etc (the apps that are always used as benchmarks) work as good as possible. Hire peple whose ONLY purpose is to either work directly on those programs to optimize them, work on the OS to deal with opitmization issues, and PAY those companies $$ to encourage them to let Apple do this. Companies like Aspyer are NOT paid to make their software run as fast as possible (by their contractor companies), but to get the game working like the PC version. They have neither the time nor resources to do a superb job in that area (not that they don't try). Apple probably helps them. Adobe (Photoshop) is probably more into features and cross-platform compatibility than trying to get the best tweaks on the Mac (as it should be, from their business perspective). However, given the importantance of benchmarks, Apple could certainly "goose" them by spending $$ to greatly improve them. Apple can be "killed" by comparisions to products that aren't optimized on the Mac, but are on the PC. Spending $5 million a year on extra engineers and "payola" could reap tremendous gains--especially if a 2 dual-core machine is released and good multi-processor optimizations become even more important.John Rivers said:
calyxman
macrumors 6502a
cubedco said:
Wow you're a genius. So even an extra 512mb stick is going to break the bank for Apple? Have you checked retail prices on 512 Mb or even a 1 Gig module?
Screw the aesthetics and start pumping money into some serious hardware specs. If Apple wants to pretend that it sets the standards and everybody else copies them, then we better see nothing short of the best. Who is it that's playing catch up here?
Then there wouldn't be a need for this.
Be careful when spitting in the wind...
Good point cubedco , people need to step back and think a moment what is that they are talking about.
You want lower prices, fine get a PC, but you wont because you know Apple is as good as it gets. Apple has one of the best OS's and pro Apps around. They have manadge to make a simple things creating a computer box that as appealing as they can be.
I makes me sick that so many people campare those PM to PC simply on number -Price and Hertz.
You want lower prices, fine get a PC, but you wont because you know Apple is as good as it gets. Apple has one of the best OS's and pro Apps around. They have manadge to make a simple things creating a computer box that as appealing as they can be.
I makes me sick that so many people campare those PM to PC simply on number -Price and Hertz.
Next Item
Apple's Mainstay, the iPod. What else do they have for income. The G5 PowerMac line had a great start, but still has missed what Steve Jobs promised a couple of years ago. But remember Steve Jobs is a great salesman, not a computer hardware designer. Just think if you were to purchase a used car from him. I buy Macs in spite of the fact that Steve Jobs is in charge, no because of him.
If not that then the first look at OS 10.5. With OS 10.4 just coming out, probably some new software item. The iMac doesn't lend itself so well to this meeting.
Bill the TaxMan
zimtheinvader said:
Apple's Mainstay, the iPod. What else do they have for income. The G5 PowerMac line had a great start, but still has missed what Steve Jobs promised a couple of years ago. But remember Steve Jobs is a great salesman, not a computer hardware designer. Just think if you were to purchase a used car from him. I buy Macs in spite of the fact that Steve Jobs is in charge, no because of him.
If not that then the first look at OS 10.5. With OS 10.4 just coming out, probably some new software item. The iMac doesn't lend itself so well to this meeting.
Bill the TaxMan
Q: When was the last time a PowerMac release caused real excitement?
A: When the original G5s came out.
A: When the original G5s came out.
Remember the feeling? We were finally out of the Motorola doldrums, and the future looked bright. When's the last time you saw a TV ad for a Mac desktop?
Sure, the current crop of PowerMacs are plenty fast for most people's needs. But, in a world where perception = reality, Apple has no (and some would say reverse) momentum in the desktop space.
I'm hoping that these new PowerMacs have something to get excited about, but I'm not holding my breath.
Before we go any further, did any one read this article.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nf/20050421/bs_nf/33272
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nf/20050421/bs_nf/33272
Kerry Sanders
macrumors regular
Mac_Freak said:
Yes.. I read this over the weekend. It was a real eye opener. This is one of the reasons that I am very serious about switching.
Cooknn
macrumors 68020
It's possible the desktop space is playing second fiddle to the living room space behind closed doors. If Apple can pull off a satellite Hi-Def video store accessible by Sony 'Cell' HDTV's equipped with Apple's embedded OS, the desktop may not be as important to their future revenue stream as we would hope. Just thinking and typing here...Roller said:
mark6051
macrumors member
Yawwwwn !
Before Macworld, After Macworld, Before NAB, After NAB, Monday - no wait- tuesday - NOoope, how bout' Wednesday then....It'll happen when a string is about that long and a tree about so high and when "the one that got away" is finally caught again...
Sheeeesh !!
Before Macworld, After Macworld, Before NAB, After NAB, Monday - no wait- tuesday - NOoope, how bout' Wednesday then....It'll happen when a string is about that long and a tree about so high and when "the one that got away" is finally caught again...
Sheeeesh !!