AMC- The Walking Dead (TV Spoilers!)

This seems like a show where anyone can die, which carries risks for the show, even though I imagine they die in the comic too. (In the comic have only gotten to the prison, just up to the show down with the governor where he shows up in a tank...) The risk is killing off "liked" characters and replacing them with other characters who may not catch on. After seeing the carnage with 3 major characters killed this season, I can only speculate.

For example, I liked Laurie and Andrea, both strong female characters. My understanding is that Laurie is still going in the comic, so I resent they off'd her in the show. As I said before, from a human interest standpoint, seems like there is this big hole in the story now. :(
 
Huntn said:
I mistyped. I meant Andrea is still alive in comic... :)
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I feel like the storyline the creative team chose to pursue this season sealed Andrea's fate.

Where she seemed to grow stronger and stronger through the seasons, in this season, her loyalty to the Governor even in the face of concrete evidence that he was... not right... turned her into an unsympathetic character. Granted, she wasn't privy to some of the things he did outside of her presence... but she saw "enough" that she should have had enough inkling to think that the Governor was not someone to be fully trusted:

Things that made Andrea an unsympathetic character:
  • Ditching Michonne for the first guy in power to show her attention
  • Zombie arena brawl (that doesn't scream "WTF" to you?)
  • Forcing Darryl and his brother to fight to the death
  • Hooking up with her friends at the prison again, including Michonne, who surely would have updated her on some of her boyfriend's shenanigans
And after all this... she still tries to foster peace between Woodbury and Rick's group.

If Andrea hadn't been killed off, I think the writers would have had a difficult time weaving her back into Rick's group... essentially, in a world like that of the Walking Dead universe... if you're not with Rick's group, you're against Rick's group... which makes you the enemy.

I think the character of Andrea was done a major disservice in terms of her role as a major character in the comics... but more shamefully as a woman that had grown soooooo strong in the face of adversity. "Oh! The Governor is kinda cute and he likes me... see ya, Michonne!"

Now... Andrea probably had other reasons to want to stick with Woodbury over Michonne. At least initially. Security, shelter, number of people, etc. But when a succession of "WTF"-worthy events occur, most rational people would start to re-think their situation and cut and run if need be... not continue to sleep with an obvious sociopath and try to bring even more of your friends into the F'ed up situation you are currently stuck in.

Comic Andrea is just so bad-ass... and I'm going to miss seeing her in the show... And the sad part is, I think the writing on the show cornered her in to a no-win situation with respect to overall viability and legitimacy on the show. Sadder still, I think she could have been redeemed with some creative writing and shuffling of events in the comic (eg. made it so that when Michonne killed the Governor's daughter, and the Governor started to beat up on Michonne... that Andrea could have walked in, seen the Governor's zombie daughter and the zombie heads in the fish tanks, gone "WTF?!" and made the snap judgment to side up with her friend again and stab the Governor in the eye... then the lynchpin of the Governor's rage would have been on revenge against Andrea AND Michonne... or something like that).
 
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stonyc said:
I feel like the storyline the creative team chose to pursue this season sealed Andrea's fate.

Where she seemed to grow stronger and stronger through the seasons, in this season, her loyalty to the Governor even in the face of concrete evidence that he was... not right... turned her into an unsympathetic character. Granted, she wasn't privy to some of the things he did outside of her presence... but she saw "enough" that she should have had enough inkling to think that the Governor was not someone to be fully trusted:

Things that made Andrea an unsympathetic character:
  • Ditching Michonne for the first guy in power to show her attention
  • Zombie arena brawl (that doesn't scream "WTF" to you?)
  • Forcing Darryl and his brother to fight to the death
  • Hooking up with her friends at the prison again, including Michonne, who surely would have updated her on some of her boyfriend's shenanigans
And after all this... she still tries to foster peace between Woodbury and Rick's group.

If Andrea hadn't been killed off, I think the writers would have had a difficult time weaving her back into Rick's group... essentially, in a world like that of the Walking Dead universe... if you're not with Rick's group, you're against Rick's group... which makes you the enemy.

I think the character of Andrea was done a major disservice in terms of her role as a major character in the comics... but more shamefully as a woman that had grown soooooo strong in the face of adversity. "Oh! The Governor is kinda cute and he likes me... see ya, Michonne!"

Now... Andrea probably had other reasons to want to stick with Woodbury over Michonne. At least initially. Security, shelter, number of people, etc. But when a succession of "WTF"-worthy events occur, most rational people would start to re-think their situation and cut and run if need be... not continue to sleep with an obvious sociopath and try to bring even more of your friends into the F'ed up situation you are currently stuck in.

Comic Andrea is just so bad-ass... and I'm going to miss seeing her in the show... And the sad part is, I think the writing on the show cornered her in to a no-win situation with respect to overall viability and legitimacy on the show. Sadder still, I think she could have been redeemed with some creative writing and shuffling of events in the comic (eg. made it so that when Michonne killed the Governor's daughter, and the Governor started to beat up on Michonne... that Andrea could have walked in, seen the Governor's zombie daughter and the zombie heads in the fish tanks, gone "WTF?!" and made the snap judgment to side up with her friend again and stab the Governor in the eye... then the lynchpin of the Governor's rage would have been on revenge against Andrea AND Michonne... or something like that).
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I think this is always an issue when writers of a show go off the rails when adapting a book. Yes, that is my description because the show while it has the same general feel, it has been substantially altered. It saddens me there is no loyalty to the story, but is viewed as a starting point from which to deviate from. And here's the problem- in large part we love the story because of characters, characters they are killing off. Granted I'm not up to date with the comic so I don't know exactly who is dead and who is alive in the comic, but killing off Andrea (a character still reported to predominant in the comic) in the comic seems inexcusable and a detriment to the story readers have grown to love.

And even from the WD alternative universe (the show), I realize it's a story and all characters are vulnerable, but killing off loved characters is risky business when you want to keep people watching. As I said, while there are still characters I enjoy, they are killing off the best ones and it leaves a big hole when I think of watching next season.

I'll still watch it, but the story choices have altered my feelings for the show, reducing it from slam dunk, to wait and see. They'll have to come up with some ****-hot alternate universe to keep me happy. ;)
 
From the ComicCon trailer, I get the impression we are in for the show's version of The Hunters from the comic book.

B
 
rhett7660 said:
Have you caught some of the discussions that took place regarding Negan?
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Yeah, I think that will probably happen later in the season with the Governor's return. Negan is more "in your face" than the Hunters and the season preview implies a hidden threat, potentially from within.

JMO

B
 
balamw said:
Yeah, I think that will probably happen later in the season with the Governor's return. Negan is more "in your face" than the Hunters and the season preview implies a hidden threat, potentially from within.

JMO

B
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I can see them pulling a Negan at the end of the season as the wrap up the hunters and/or the internal strife/threat that is (I agree) hinted at in the preview.

I am actually hoping they tie the Governor's story line up within the first few episodes. Be done with it. Time to bring on some new threats not re-hash his.

October can't get here soon enough!
 
rhett7660 said:
OT... Vikings looks freaking great! Love the show and can't wait for it to come back!!!!!!!

Probably should start a new thread but here is the trailer for Vikings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXOej9DUHJ4

Ok, back on topic! :D
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I was about to skip the ad and watch the Walking Dead trailer, but "Smile Man" started playing and watching Willem Dafoe with nerve damage and stuck with a smile on his face was funny as hell.

Anyway, season 4 looks good in the trailer. I hope they don't get cheesy like they did in season 2.
 
The July 26th issue of Entertainment Weekly had a cover story on The Walking Dead. Of Interest to me, the actors lamented the killing off of Original Characters, something I said quite a while ago.

Norman Reedus:
It really bums me out. It's taken three seasons for people to get wrapped up in certain characters. I think once you invest in those characters, to have them go is just like , "Ah, man".
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Andrew Lincoln:
The more you lose the originals, I think there is a breaking point where you irrevocably change the culture of the show. That change can be magnified if newer characters are also being disposed of prematurely. If you don't give time for people to grow into the show, then it is a concern. Axel was a great character. Damn, it was an amazing death, but I don't know, I'm not in charge of this thing.
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thank you for posting this

rhett7660 said:
OT... Vikings looks freaking great! Love the show and can't wait for it to come back!!!!!!!

Probably should start a new thread but here is the trailer for Vikings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXOej9DUHJ4

Ok, back on topic! :D
Click to expand...

I wound up loving Vikings myself and that teaser is great.

Okay, I admit I've never watched the Walking Dead or read an issue of the comics, but the latter will change with issue 114. Paul Monroe's character seems interesting to me.
 
Walking Dead Comic Spoilers!​

I finally finished the comic episodes up through about Episode 68 and I had to laugh when I finished the prison. Why? Because I complained in this thread the about how many important characters they killed off this last season in the TV show, with Andrea and Lori. Well, the prison in the comic is a massacre! I won't say who is left, but holy smokes!

My observation is that while the tv show is very good, the comic is excellent! The pacing is so much better than the show, and the prison conclusion and how it dealt with The Governor was superb, so much better than the tv show. I need to read more!

Anyone know how many episodes have been published? I guess I could google that... :)
 
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Huntn said:
Anyone know how many episodes have been published? I guess I could google that... :)
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Issue 116 is due shortly. This story arc is called "All Out War".

The events of issue 100 had me picking my jaw up off the floor.

B
 
balamw said:
Issue 116 is due shortly. This story arc is called "All Out War".

The events of issue 100 had me picking my jaw up off the floor.

B
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Comic and TV Spoilers!​


Comic:
I'm up to Issue 72. They have made it to DC and are living in Doug's compound. To good to be true! ;) No spoilers please...

TV:
I just got caught up last night, and am I'm unhappy with the way they unceremoniously dumped Carol.

In the comic Carol was a poor lost soul, who after breaking up with Tyreese, and after being rejected by Rick and Lorie as the second wife, fed herself to a zombie to it end. I guess in the show, they built her up to be a stronger character, so they could kick her out, and this was just a means to make room for the next new character? And I think they made a bad decision getting rid of Andrea last season. Besides Rick, she was my favorite. In deference to the original story, some of these choices seem willy-nilly.

Regarding the Governor, I think the comic did a better job of delineating him as an evil character. The show is more wishy-washy about how they want to portray his character. Now that he's back (in the show), I am curious where they will take him. Since he killed most of his crew at the end of last season, I don't see the same opportunity for a second attack on the prison, but who knows!! :p
 
Huntn said:
Walking Dead Comic Spoilers!​

I finally finished the comic episodes up through about Episode 68 and I had to laugh when I finished the prison. Why? Because I complained in this thread the about how many important characters they killed off this last season in the TV show, with Andrea and Lori. Well, the prison in the comic is a massacre! I won't say who is left, but holy smokes!

My observation is that while the tv show is very good, the comic is excellent! The pacing is so much better than the show, and the prison conclusion and how it dealt with The Governor was superb, so much better than the tv show. I need to read more!

Anyone know how many episodes have been published? I guess I could google that... :)
Click to expand...

That is what I have been saying since the end of season three. I loved how the comic book dealt with him. Between the dealings with the Governor vs Michonne and then the Governor vs the group at the prison, you can see how watered down the show is.

Back to the show:

What did everyone think of this weeks episode? Looks like we are going to get the governor back, at least for another episode........or two. I am really curious to see if the group that was stumbled upon during the previews for next week are the Hunters........! :) And they are dealt with like they are dealt with in the book!!! :D
 
Huntn said:
Comic and TV Spoilers!​

TV:
I just got caught up last night, and am I'm unhappy with the way they unceremoniously dumped Carol.

Regarding the Governor, I think the comic did a better job of delineating him as an evil character. The show is more wishy-washy about how they want to portray his character. Now that he's back (in the show), I am curious where they will take him. Since he killed most of his crew at the end of last season, I don't see the same opportunity for a second attack on the prison, but who knows!! :p
Click to expand...

rhett7660 said:
That is what I have been saying since the end of season three. I loved how the comic book dealt with him. Between the dealings with the Governor vs Michonne and then the Governor vs the group at the prison, you can see how watered down the show is.

Back to the show:

What did everyone think of this weeks episode?
Click to expand...

Haven't read the comics, just show input from me...

The way they handled Carol allows for the possibility of seeing her again. They took her character from being helpless to being self sufficient and played up the "survivor" aspect. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see her again in the future.

As for the Governor, I think they are doing what good storytellers do with complex characters. It's overly simple to have "good guys wear white and bad guys wear black" when it comes to a drama like The Walking Dead. The show is all about how the characters deal with their circumstances and the trauma they have endured. They are more fully developing his character by showing that he has the capacity for positive emotions and altruistic behavior. The show is really quite a fascinating study into the argument between absolute vs. circumstantial ethics/morality.
 
mscriv said:
Haven't read the comics, just show input from me...

The way they handled Carol allows for the possibility of seeing her again. They took her character from being helpless to being self sufficient and played up the "survivor" aspect. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see her again in the future.

As for the Governor, I think they are doing what good storytellers do with complex characters. It's overly simple to have "good guys wear white and bad guys wear black" when it comes to a drama like The Walking Dead. The show is all about how the characters deal with their circumstances and the trauma they have endured. They are more fully developing his character by showing that he has the capacity for positive emotions and altruistic behavior. The show is really quite a fascinating study into the argument between absolute vs. circumstantial ethics/morality.
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I can agree with your critique and I believe the show has more leeway to do this. :) However, I think in the comic we've seen the same kind of development with Rick. Being a comic, it does have some limitations on blending character development vs progressing the story. The comic maintains a purity of story telling, where the tv show has made compromises based on a variety of criteria such as sets and location and story telling does not always appear to be the top priority. One example might be using up most of season 2 looking for missing Sophia.
 
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