AnandTech Calls A12 Bionic in iPhone XS 'Just Margins Off' Best Desktop CPUs in New Review

[PickUrPoison]

"very small margins until Apple’s mobile SoCs outperform the fastest desktop CPUs in terms of ST performance."

It would be helpful if you'd include an explanation of "ST performance" after that quote. I guess it means "Synthetic Test Performance" as in benchmarks?

I guessed single threaded.

 

[SoGood]

At least that's where some of the price can be attributed to.

 

[rp2011]

The economies of scale of the iPhone is paying the research and development cost for the desktop, phone, iPad and watch chips. They are getting a massive bang for the bucks.
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It's a little bit astonishing to think we could legitimately see Apple beating Intel at their own game, on Intel's home turf (the conventional PC space), potentially in the next year or two. It'd make Macs an oddball in the computer world again, but honestly, if the raw performance numbers were good enough and an x86->ARM Rosetta-like layer was competent, it'd be hard to argue against it.

And the Apple has the economy of scale to do whatever self contained chip design works best for them and them only.

 

[thunng8]

"very small margins until Apple’s mobile SoCs outperform the fastest desktop CPUs in terms of ST performance."

It would be helpful if you'd include an explanation of "ST performance" after that quote. I guess it means "Synthetic Test Performance" as in benchmarks?

Single thread .. ie only using 1 core

 

[FFR]

Let’s flip that around. Why would Apple sell one of their key advantages to competitors?

Your replying to a poster that expects apple to develop an android port for the Apple Watch, and doesn’t understand why NVMe SSD cost more than ufs based one.

 

[0947347]

Their continued progress with these chips might be the most impressive thing Apple has done post-Jobs. It is absolutely incredible, blowing away all competition like this.

Now if they make fully loaded Final Cut X, Logic Pro, ... for iPad and, allow to connect external storage, then we can dance. For what we have now in software for iOS, the chips are quite a overkill

 

[358547]

I guessed single threaded.

Single thread .. ie only using 1 core

Your guess is as good as mine. No wait, it's better!

 

[bladerunner2000]

Because it's Apple doing it. If it was Google or Microsoft, etc, ARM would suck.

Let me remind you that when it comes to hardware, Apple has been historically a bottomfeeder, and it's even more so true today. They're charging $9,000 CAD for the 18 core iMac when AMD's Threadripper 2 performs nearly twice as fast and the processor alone costs only $2,000. The rest of the specs on a comp would total about $1,000 bringing the total price to about $3,000 for a machine completely DESTROYS a $9,000 Apple computer.

There's no debate about this. Apple's computer's are an absolute joke.

 

[JesperA]

Let me remind you that when it comes to hardware, Apple has been historically a bottomfeeder, and it's even more so true today. They're charging $9,000 CAD for the 18 core iMac when AMD's Threadripper 2 performs nearly twice as fast and the processor alone costs only $2,000. The rest of the specs on a comp would total about $1,000 bringing the total price to about $3,000 for a machine completely DESTROYS a $9,000 Apple computer.

There's no debate about this. Apple's computer's are an absolute joke.

1'000 dollar for a 5K monitor with near to 100% P3 coverage, PSU, memory, SSD:s, motherboard, case, etc etc, where can i find those parts so cheap? Can't even find the monitor itself for under the 1'000 dollar you claim the rest of the specs would add up to.


But anyways, you keep arguing AGAINST why Apple should make their own CPU for desktop but this comment i quote is EXACTLY why Apple would want to make their own desktop CPU

 

[bladerunner2000]

1'000 dollar for a 5K monitor with near to 100% P3 coverage, PSU, memory, SSD:s, motherboard, case, etc etc, where can i find those parts so cheap? Can't even find the monitor itself for under the 1'000 dollar you claim the rest of the specs would add up to.


But anyways, you keep arguing AGAINST why Apple should make their own CPU for desktop but this comment i quote is EXACTLY why Apple would want to make their own desktop CPU

$1,000 will easily get you a PSU, Motherboard, RAM, SSD, cooler and GPU. You probably think it's a lot more because you've been lied to by Apple for so long. Computer parts are not THAT expensive.

$300 for Threadripper 2 Motherboard (Asrock X399M)
$130 for 16gb DDR4 RAM (plenty at that price)
$400 for EVGA GTX 1070
$130 for case (Fractal Design Define R6)
$80 for Cooler (Phanteks PH-TC14PE)
$100 for Seasonic PSU X650 (silent)
$90 for Samsung NVME SSD 250gb

Total is $1,230

A little over... and still $6,000 less than an iMac Pro and still nearly twice as fast. And we're not even including TAX on the iMac Pro..... LOL.

Dude come on... you know it's a rip off... why even debate?

 

[Abazigal]

Let me remind you that when it comes to hardware, Apple has been historically a bottomfeeder, and it's even more so true today. They're charging $9,000 CAD for the 18 core iMac when AMD's Threadripper 2 performs nearly twice as fast and the processor alone costs only $2,000. The rest of the specs on a comp would total about $1,000 bringing the total price to about $3,000 for a machine completely DESTROYS a $9,000 Apple computer.

There's no debate about this. Apple's computer's are an absolute joke.

Which windows computer is capable of running Final Cut Pro again?

I have watched a few YouTube videos of creators who have switched to the iMac Pro and their reasons invariably boil down to it offering a more seamless working experience compared to a PC running adobe premiere. One even cited “has a upload to YouTube shortcut which actually works” as a dealbreaker because for them, time equated money and Final Cut Pro simply allowed them to edit and upload content in less time, and with fewer problems overall. This to them made the higher cost of the iMac Pro more than worth it.

I am also reminded of Jonathan Morrison’s MacBook video from a couple of years back, where he showed how it was able to edit 4K video using Final Cut Pro with nary a sweat despite its anaemic specs.

Here’s how I see it. If you want to compare the specs of a Mac with one you can built with parts purchased online, the self-assembled PC will come out ahead every time. However, once you factor in all the other variables, such as the strength of the Apple ecosystem, it’s no longer as straightforward.

For example, the convenience of using airdrop to transfer 4K footage from your iPhone to your iMac Pro is something that can’t be distilled and quantified as a numerical rating the same way you can compare benchmark scores, but it’s a perk which has a noticeable benefit on the way people work nevertheless.

The software and operating system make all the difference as well. Just comparing specs in a vacuum is pointless.

Perhaps you would like to go online and tell these YouTubers that they have been doing their job wrong all this while?

 

[JimmyHook]

$1,000 will easily get you a PSU, Motherboard, RAM, SSD, cooler and GPU. You probably think it's a lot more because you've been lied to by Apple for so long. Computer parts are not THAT expensive.

$300 for Threadripper 2 Motherboard (Asrock X399M)
$130 for 16gb DDR4 RAM (plenty at that price)
$400 for EVGA GTX 1070
$130 for case (Fractal Design Define R6)
$80 for Cooler (Phanteks PH-TC14PE)
$100 for Seasonic PSU X650 (silent)
$90 for Samsung NVME SSD 250gb

Total is $1,230

A little over... and still $6,000 less than an iMac Pro and still nearly twice as fast. And we're not even including TAX on the iMac Pro..... LOL.

Dude come on... you know it's a rip off... why even debate?

Try again. The Xeon will murder that processor several times over. Also, the GPU... the RAM goes to 128. A 5k monitor of that quality is 1000 by itself. You conveniently left that off


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cultofmac.com/485914/imac-pro-pricetag/amp/

 

[dilbert99]

Let’s flip that around. Why would Apple sell one of their key advantages to competitors?

Maybe there is more money

 

[pika2000]

Finally, a true tech journalist. This is what a tech article should be, talking about tech, not just yelling about beautification and price. Anandtech makes all the tech youtubers look like bumbling idiots from tabloids trying to talk about tech.

This is where Apple innovates. They are betting on mobile since the first iPhone, and they starting to see the fruits of their labor. Nobody else will be able to match this as most other OEMs only care about short term sales and channel stuffing with little to no real innovation. Only few realize they cannot rely on off the shelf hardware (Samsung, Huawei, and Xiaomi) but they are behind.

 

[dilbert99]

By the way, many of their key engineers used to work at AMD and DEC. They know what they’re doing at least as well as intel.

No doubt Apple make great chips. Just really wondered why they didn’t sell them...

 

[cmaier]

No doubt Apple make great chips. Just really wondered why they didn’t sell them...

You don’t make 30 percent margin in that business.

 

[x-evil-x]

I think we'll see some improvements in iOS 13 in this regard that were pushed out to focus on performance. Although I think Apple looks to the iPad when it comes to real multitasking gains and efficiencies. App tabs are rumored to be coming to the iPad in iOS 13, which feels like a very good way to implement. Split screen on a phone would only be useful for a very niche group of people, in my opinion.

There might be times where you'd want it too.
There needs to be a youtube player you can scroll over the screen in the top corners. Or if you are watching a game and browsing the internet or watching a stock closely and looking things up online. Thats how id want split screen done anyhow.
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The reason these “phones” are $1000+ Stop complaining about the price it’s a high end computer in hand, don’t like it. Pick yourself up a Walmart senior citizen flip phone for $59 bucks.

At this point its the software that's making these not live up to their processors. They are much more capable and we are stuck with basic iOS software stuck in 2010...
They need a huge overhaul

 

[bladerunner2000]

Try again. The Xeon will murder that processor several times over. Also, the GPU... the RAM goes to 128. A 5k monitor of that quality is 1000 by itself. You conveniently left that off


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cultofmac.com/485914/imac-pro-pricetag/amp/

Go ahead, add the top of the line 4k monitor....throw in one with an IPS panel, 120+hz... go balls out and pick the ASUS ROG Swift PG27UQ and you're still getting scammed by Apple by $4,000... enough to buy you a cheap car. Or 8 cheap vacations to Cuba (well maybe not you, you're probably american and will never go there for some reason)... but you get my point.

 

[pika2000]

I wish we knew more about how the Ax chips were designed. Back in the old PowerPC/Intel wars, we'd get detailed reports about how architecture changes improved performance in different ways-- now it's just a black box to benchmark.

I'm sure there's a ton of innovation happening to achieve these levels of performance/efficiency, but somehow it's less exciting without being able to see behind the curtain.

Considering how Jobs looked at Google/Android stealing from Apple, I’m sure he put in place ultra barriers from exposing any of the inside tech of Apple. And considering how the Chinese think about IP (basically none), it’s understandable that Apple is not going to disclose these things as readily as in the past.

 

[dilbert99]

You don’t make 30 percent margin in that business.

What is the margin in high end cpus?

 

[pika2000]

No doubt Apple make great chips. Just really wondered why they didn’t sell them...

Why should they? Huawei also makes their own chips and said they won’t sell it as it’s their competitive advantage.

We can go back as far as Jobs eliminating the Mac clones. Apple is simply staying true to Job’s vision.

 

[Abazigal]

No doubt Apple make great chips. Just really wondered why they didn’t sell them...

Apple’s processors are also optimised with iOS in mind. I don’t think you will see the same benefits running android. Plus it’s one more advantage to sell the iPhone, and that’s where the real money is.

 

[citysnaps]

No doubt Apple make great chips. Just really wondered why they didn’t sell them...

One of the reasons for developing your own chips is being able to embed your own secret sauce technology, enabling you to develop and sell computers that are hopefully superior to those produced by your competitors. Selling chips to competitors commoditizes and makes available the technology that differentiates you from other computer manufacturers, giving away your advantage.

Also...Apple going into the chip business would require loads of extra infrastructure to provide sales and support. Not a good use of scarce resources.

 

[JosephAW]

When Mr. Cook reads this he will tell R&D to go ahead and start the process to roll out new Mac Mini and Laptops based on the new A12 and discontinue all Intel computers.

 

[cmaier]

What is the margin in high end cpus?

Around 20 percent. But you can’t just sell the high end ones. More than half don’t run at the max speed. By the time you bin them it’s a lot lower.