Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
And the Truth will set you free...
- Thread starter -=XX=-Nephilim
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
dmr727
macrumors G4
I think he understands just fine. I'm surprised he received as much of a response as he has - we know better than that. I'll admit that he's good at what he does, though.
DylanLikesPorn
macrumors 6502
Really? Holy ****! Myself, I did not know this. Thanks for enlightening us! All this time, I thought this server was run by the government and paid for with our internets tax dollars.
miles01110
macrumors Core
Obviously not. There are two types of people that responded to this thread:
1) Trolls who think they're entitled to have things the way they want it when they want it.
2) Those who realize that if they do not agree with something they see on the internet, they can either a) ignore it, or b) find another website that tells them what they want to hear.
skunk
macrumors G4
I believe you are misreading the post you are responding to. I see no threat.
I do see merit in the OP's position: a little more objectivity would not be incompatible with MacRumors' status as a Mac-related site. It's a difficult line to tread, because the propaganda machines are in full spate on all sides and there are expensive and commercially powerful interests vested in both camps.
MacDawg
Moderator emeritus
skunk
macrumors G4
Surely
Guest
MacDawg
Moderator emeritus
The OPs tone in the original posts plus his signature lended itself to my original reading. He was attacking and challenging. After posting in the whole thread I see he is just seeking attention.
Hi and thanks for your post Skunk!
Glad you understand my intentions and meaning of this thread...
If you have read entire thread I am sure you realised that I am proud Mac owner as well!
I rely on MR to provide me with reliable, unbiased and as objective as possible information on hardware / software system I am using for fun as well as for business.
MR being one of the best (if not the best) Mac related news sites should indeed pay much more attention to their reporting and objectivity in general in order to remain at the top - otherwise they are running a risk of turning into 'tabloid' like unreliable propaganda garbage - something I and many others don't exactly need...
This very thread is not about discrediting this site and staff - quite the opposite in fact! - it is friendly and rather valuable 'wake up' call to make what is great site even better!
Objectivity is not a negative thing - objectivity means being real, having your own "I", it also means reliability and many other things - and naturally when it comes down to journalism it means, before everything else, 'doing your job'!
I also agree with your 'objectivity is a difficult line to tread' - it sure is!
But MR can surely try harder and do much better than what they've been doing recently... No doubt about it!
Don't worry about them... It is textbook psychology - fear of authority leads to conscious thinking of a 'threat' when the same one is questioned in any way... 🙂
andalusia
macrumors 68030
MacRumors didn't get to the top by following your advice, and I doubt they will start now.
DylanLikesPorn
macrumors 6502
"Oh look, I'm calling the OP a troll but I do it in such an indirect, passive-aggressive way as to not get myself banned. Aren't I clever?"
Lord Blackadder
macrumors P6
This is precisely why I feel it's unwise to take a great personal interest in one commercially available technology over the other. On the other hand, I suppose we are all consumers, and eventually do fall into just such a pattern of behavior at one point or another.
I feel slightly foolish championing any product in an internet flame-war. It's just someone else's cash cow, after all.
skunk
macrumors G4
Steve Jobs has made some excellent decisions which have paid off, but that does not mean that he is always doing and will always be doing the right thing as far as the millions who have invested in his products are concerned. Honest criticism is always useful.
sushi
Moderator emeritus
I think this is the key.
Personally, I come here as a community site focused on MacRumors. I don't expect to read this site like a journalistic news type site.
I believe that the OP is ignoring this fact.
And would rather have MacRumors be the way he wants it to be. Thus my suggestion to him is start his own site that caters to his way of thinking.
Snort!
Clear Blue and 22 to you sir! 🙂
iDisk
macrumors 6502a
Cool story Bro😎
This thread is very interesting, the thread starter sounds like a troll but makes some valid points
MrSmith
macrumors 68040
Such lack of understanding of the OP's position is presumably why there's so much vitriol in this thread. Balanced reporting on applications that work on Mac is not the same as trying to push Windows.
@iDisk and MrSmith
Hi and thanks for your replies! Glad to see that MR community isn't exactly what it appears to be on the surface...
Exactly - but hold on a minute... Is it really lack of understanding or something else? Lets quickly scan entire thread and make some quotes:
I don't think this is lack of understanding at all - quite the opposite! Almost everyone who posted to this thread so far, directly or indirectly, agrees that we are being fed biased, trashy, 'kool-aid' down our throats...
Only difference is that some like, or don't mind, to be fed with lies and propaganda while others would rather have objective, unbiased and informative reporting...
Perhaps the only person in this 100 post thread and counting who actually stood up in defence of MR objectivity - in rather weak way may I add - is WildCowboy himself by saying:
So what exactly is going on here!?!?!
I suggest to everyone who cares about objectivity, unbiased reporting and ultimately the truth - to spread the link to this thread further...
Being aware of what is really going on in the real world out there is for everyone's benefit (including Apple and this very news site too) and MR, as primary source of Apple related info, has ethical obligation towards their readers to sharpen their act and to start to inform us as objectively as possible without pouring that kool-aid down our throats...
Kool-Aid isn't 'kool' anymore when we start to choke on it and when our general computing needs as well as businesses start to suffer as direct result of it...
MR - if it's true that you are not under any corporate ownership, if it's true that you are not getting paid for spreading propaganda and if it's true that you are independent news site - then just do your job... It isn't really asking too much... or is it?
Hi and thanks for your replies! Glad to see that MR community isn't exactly what it appears to be on the surface...
Exactly - but hold on a minute... Is it really lack of understanding or something else? Lets quickly scan entire thread and make some quotes:
mscriv said:
Lorad Blackadder said:
ZazenZach said:
belvdr said:
mscriv said:
MacDawg said:
Dagless said:
darkplanets said:
dmr727 said:
I don't think this is lack of understanding at all - quite the opposite! Almost everyone who posted to this thread so far, directly or indirectly, agrees that we are being fed biased, trashy, 'kool-aid' down our throats...
Only difference is that some like, or don't mind, to be fed with lies and propaganda while others would rather have objective, unbiased and informative reporting...
Perhaps the only person in this 100 post thread and counting who actually stood up in defence of MR objectivity - in rather weak way may I add - is WildCowboy himself by saying:
WildCowboy said:
So what exactly is going on here!?!?!
I suggest to everyone who cares about objectivity, unbiased reporting and ultimately the truth - to spread the link to this thread further...
Being aware of what is really going on in the real world out there is for everyone's benefit (including Apple and this very news site too) and MR, as primary source of Apple related info, has ethical obligation towards their readers to sharpen their act and to start to inform us as objectively as possible without pouring that kool-aid down our throats...
Kool-Aid isn't 'kool' anymore when we start to choke on it and when our general computing needs as well as businesses start to suffer as direct result of it...
MR - if it's true that you are not under any corporate ownership, if it's true that you are not getting paid for spreading propaganda and if it's true that you are independent news site - then just do your job... It isn't really asking too much... or is it?
chrono1081
macrumors G3
Wow...you are not right in the head honestly.
There is nothing "propaganda". Flash is crap. Pure and simple. Instead of getting angry at mac rumors articles ask Adobe why they went to crap after buying up their competition (macromedia). Flash used to be decent before that happened but I'm sure you didn't bother to look it up.
Technologies improve, new ones come along that are better (HTML5) and ones that fail to adapt (Flash) get left behind. Its been going on forever and ever.
lmao 😀
http://www.libertymutualinteractive.com/
It runs awesomely on my 3 years old MBP - right now! - for free of course...
No doubt it will run brilliantly on Android devices - if not right now, then very soon for sure 🙂
And this is only one out of 1000s upon 1000s Flash based contents we are intentionally cut short of... Why exactly?
In any case - please don't derail this thread any further since it is about objective journalism / reporting and not about nonsensical arguments...
Thanks man! ( and enjoy the game - it's great! 🙂 )
UTclassof89
macrumors 6502
While I agree that coverage of this topic by MR has been very one-sided, I don't agree with your thesis that it's a conspiracy.
Arn & Co. may have their own opinions about the merits of Flash--like everyone else does-- and it may color their selection of articles on the topic, but I think they are more like Connie Chung (who will read whatever news is put before her without a shred of research) than like Fox (which selects news that supports their agenda).
While the web abounds with evidence countering the misinformation about Flash, that evidence is usually blogged by unknown people doing their own experimentation, and thus doesn't really rise to the level of news/rumor as it would if done by the same unknown person working for CNET or Wired and posting the results on well-known sites.
You know there will always be the background noise of people adding such insightful commentary as "die, Flash die" and "Flash just sucks" in any thread about the technology. Just ignore them and keep posting those links that dispell the specific disinformation people parrot from that 2001 article about how bad Flash 4 was.
And to everyone in this thread that says MR has no obligation to present both sides of an issue, I'm sure you would sing a different tune if the only side of AntennaGate they presented was the problems with the iPhone.
Arn & Co. may have their own opinions about the merits of Flash--like everyone else does-- and it may color their selection of articles on the topic, but I think they are more like Connie Chung (who will read whatever news is put before her without a shred of research) than like Fox (which selects news that supports their agenda).
While the web abounds with evidence countering the misinformation about Flash, that evidence is usually blogged by unknown people doing their own experimentation, and thus doesn't really rise to the level of news/rumor as it would if done by the same unknown person working for CNET or Wired and posting the results on well-known sites.
You know there will always be the background noise of people adding such insightful commentary as "die, Flash die" and "Flash just sucks" in any thread about the technology. Just ignore them and keep posting those links that dispell the specific disinformation people parrot from that 2001 article about how bad Flash 4 was.
And to everyone in this thread that says MR has no obligation to present both sides of an issue, I'm sure you would sing a different tune if the only side of AntennaGate they presented was the problems with the iPhone.
Hi UT,
Glad you agree that things have been very one sided as of lately!
I think we all do - even guys who come into this thread and post random stuff 🙂
As for conspiracy - at the moment I am simply asking questions and not concluding anything... If you scan through this thread you will find loads of question marks yet very little answers (or no answers at all better to say...)
Perhaps Arn or Cowboy or Eric will come back one day and give us some...
They are all over the net yet MR is refusing to publish any... (I have personally submitted few)
http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/andr...ashy-49305746/
Some quotes:
"The full Web version of BBC iPlayer has already been tweaked to work with Flash 10 on Android. Even though the pre-production phone we tested didn't have hardware acceleration working, video was still much smoother than when using Flash Lite and very watchable."
"Even sites that haven't been optimised for Flash 10, such as CNET UK, worked very well in our tests. The play and pause buttons worked reliably and the movie streamed quickly and reasonably smoothly while embedded on the page. Navigation elements on the page worked perfectly too."
"We also checked out some Flash games on Kongregate, which has whipped up a mobile site specifically for Flash 10, and we were impressed with how responsive they were."
"Ecodazoo, a Web site for kids that uses 3D animation made with Papervision3D, is heavy going even on a desktop. Flash 10 let us navigate around by touching the image and it rendered beautifully."
__________________
thejadedmonkey
macrumors G3
This is a very good topic, one which I have been meaning to start a discussion on myself.
I too was incredibly aggravated by the 'flash on android sux' article that remained above the fold for some days. It is, as I commented, woefully wrong. It equates, in my mind, to someone complaining that their windows version of Office doesn't work on OS X. They were built for two separate platforms, why would you have any reasonable expectation it would work 100%.
But I digress from the real point; Macrumors is biased. This, I think is obvious, and I would expect nothing less from an Apple fansite. However, in the past 5 years I have been a community member, the bias has turned into shear propaganda.
Lets go over some history, please. First, it was a rumor site, and nothing more. A reintroduction of the cube (a la mac mini)? Powerbook G5 next tuesday? true rumors were, and remain, sparse. There wasn't a new rumor every other day.
Then the iPhone came out, and we see the second stage of macrumors: More frequent updates, concerning not just Apple/rumors, but AT&T, Verizon, as well as coverage of component manufacturers. More page views means more revenue for the site, as well as following what the readers want to see; That is, people want iPhone stories, so Macrumors provided iPhone stories.
However, there is a 3rd stage of Macrumors that I have noticed lately. It's a much less pretty of a picture. The rumors, and news reports, have begun to include editorials. Instead of a rumor of a powerbook G5, or an iPad 2, or even reporting on the health of AT&T's network through the use of stats, the site has started featuring more objectified stories. These stories include things such as AT&T's network is horrible, or Flash on Android is horrible, and back it up with anecdotal evidence.
Let me give some anecdotal evidence as well. I use AT&T, and can not remember the last time I had a dropped call on my end. My Verizon friends get dropped calls all of the time. Ergo, Verizon must suck. My girlfriend has an android phone and it can run flash on it, well, ergo it's better than an iPhone.
However, my viewpoints aren't the same as macrumors' editors viewpoints, and my opinions go unheard. What is beginning to happen, as I see it, is that instead of simple facts being reported on, we have editorials as well, masquerading as fact, that utterly bash anything that Apple doesn't like. I'm not going to say MR is on Apple's payroll - I think it's ridiculous - but the editor's have definitely been drinking Apple's Khool Aid recently, as macrumors doesn't even begin to be objective, but instead outright bashes any competition and blindly praises Apple.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing with pro-Apple articles. However, there is a thin line between news, and editorials that are presented as fact, which macrumors is beginning to cross, and, to me, that is the equivalent to lying to people.
People such as Jessica or Wild Cowboy have been here since forever, and while I hate to call you out, you seem to forget while calling the OP a troll, that macrumors didn't always aim to sucker punch Apple's competition. This site has begun to cater more to people like *LTD* who don't see any viewpoint besides the one where Apple can do no wrong.
Add me to the list of people who don't like the direction this site is headed.
tl;dr: Macrumors is great for getting a pro-apple viewpoint, but weak when it comes to promoting anything that's remotely bad for apple, and additionally hides opinion and editorial behind a thinly veiled heading of 'news'. macrumors is becoming 'fair and balanced' in the same way that fox is 'fair and balanced'. while that's well within their rights to do so, i disagree with it.
I too was incredibly aggravated by the 'flash on android sux' article that remained above the fold for some days. It is, as I commented, woefully wrong. It equates, in my mind, to someone complaining that their windows version of Office doesn't work on OS X. They were built for two separate platforms, why would you have any reasonable expectation it would work 100%.
But I digress from the real point; Macrumors is biased. This, I think is obvious, and I would expect nothing less from an Apple fansite. However, in the past 5 years I have been a community member, the bias has turned into shear propaganda.
Lets go over some history, please. First, it was a rumor site, and nothing more. A reintroduction of the cube (a la mac mini)? Powerbook G5 next tuesday? true rumors were, and remain, sparse. There wasn't a new rumor every other day.
Then the iPhone came out, and we see the second stage of macrumors: More frequent updates, concerning not just Apple/rumors, but AT&T, Verizon, as well as coverage of component manufacturers. More page views means more revenue for the site, as well as following what the readers want to see; That is, people want iPhone stories, so Macrumors provided iPhone stories.
However, there is a 3rd stage of Macrumors that I have noticed lately. It's a much less pretty of a picture. The rumors, and news reports, have begun to include editorials. Instead of a rumor of a powerbook G5, or an iPad 2, or even reporting on the health of AT&T's network through the use of stats, the site has started featuring more objectified stories. These stories include things such as AT&T's network is horrible, or Flash on Android is horrible, and back it up with anecdotal evidence.
Let me give some anecdotal evidence as well. I use AT&T, and can not remember the last time I had a dropped call on my end. My Verizon friends get dropped calls all of the time. Ergo, Verizon must suck. My girlfriend has an android phone and it can run flash on it, well, ergo it's better than an iPhone.
However, my viewpoints aren't the same as macrumors' editors viewpoints, and my opinions go unheard. What is beginning to happen, as I see it, is that instead of simple facts being reported on, we have editorials as well, masquerading as fact, that utterly bash anything that Apple doesn't like. I'm not going to say MR is on Apple's payroll - I think it's ridiculous - but the editor's have definitely been drinking Apple's Khool Aid recently, as macrumors doesn't even begin to be objective, but instead outright bashes any competition and blindly praises Apple.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing with pro-Apple articles. However, there is a thin line between news, and editorials that are presented as fact, which macrumors is beginning to cross, and, to me, that is the equivalent to lying to people.
People such as Jessica or Wild Cowboy have been here since forever, and while I hate to call you out, you seem to forget while calling the OP a troll, that macrumors didn't always aim to sucker punch Apple's competition. This site has begun to cater more to people like *LTD* who don't see any viewpoint besides the one where Apple can do no wrong.
Add me to the list of people who don't like the direction this site is headed.
tl;dr: Macrumors is great for getting a pro-apple viewpoint, but weak when it comes to promoting anything that's remotely bad for apple, and additionally hides opinion and editorial behind a thinly veiled heading of 'news'. macrumors is becoming 'fair and balanced' in the same way that fox is 'fair and balanced'. while that's well within their rights to do so, i disagree with it.