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And the Truth will set you free...
- Thread starter -=XX=-Nephilim
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^^^^What's your point? The words "news" and "rumors" are in there. They report on both. This is a fan-site, not a hard-news website.
thejadedmonkey, it would be appreciated if you would provide links to some of these rumors/news reports that you are talking about in this "3rd stage". As well written as your post is, without citations it doesn't provide a strong argument for your, or the OP's, point.
The problem that I have with the OP is that he's being inflammatory and, frankly, at this point is beating a dead horse.
He continues to use this thread to advocate for Flash. My experience with Flash is not a positive one: overheating my laptop, driving my CPU way up, crashing my browser. For me, Flash does suck, and I'm glad that there are alternatives being developed and popularized. I thank <insert your imaginary deity here> every day for Click2Flash.
Sure, perhaps it doesn't make it seem like the rumors/news reporters here are the most thorough if it is true that a positive follow up to the Flash on Android occurred and wasn't updated, but to paint the whole rumors/news part of the site with the same brush over one story is unfair. It's one story whose follow up was missed.
I browse other Apple and tech sites besides this one, and I would say that they are all pretty much the same in terms of content, consistency and objectivity. Actually, there are a couple of other Apple-specific sites that seem far more fanboy-like than this one.
I think the editors are doing a decent job (even though there are some stories that are put on Page 1 that really don't deserve it
)
thejadedmonkey, it would be appreciated if you would provide links to some of these rumors/news reports that you are talking about in this "3rd stage". As well written as your post is, without citations it doesn't provide a strong argument for your, or the OP's, point.
The problem that I have with the OP is that he's being inflammatory and, frankly, at this point is beating a dead horse.
He continues to use this thread to advocate for Flash. My experience with Flash is not a positive one: overheating my laptop, driving my CPU way up, crashing my browser. For me, Flash does suck, and I'm glad that there are alternatives being developed and popularized. I thank <insert your imaginary deity here> every day for Click2Flash.
Sure, perhaps it doesn't make it seem like the rumors/news reporters here are the most thorough if it is true that a positive follow up to the Flash on Android occurred and wasn't updated, but to paint the whole rumors/news part of the site with the same brush over one story is unfair. It's one story whose follow up was missed.
I browse other Apple and tech sites besides this one, and I would say that they are all pretty much the same in terms of content, consistency and objectivity. Actually, there are a couple of other Apple-specific sites that seem far more fanboy-like than this one.
I think the editors are doing a decent job (even though there are some stories that are put on Page 1 that really don't deserve it
)
^^^^What's your point? The words "news" and "rumors" are in there. They report on both. This is a fan-site, not a hard-news website.
thejadedmonkey, it would be appreciated if you would provide links to some of these rumors/news reports that you are talking about in this "3rd stage". As well written as your post is, without citations it doesn't provide a strong argument for your, or the OP's, point.
The problem that I have with the OP is that he's being inflammatory and, frankly, at this point is beating a dead horse.
He continues to use this thread to advocate for Flash. My experience with Flash is not a positive one: overheating my laptop, driving my CPU way up, crashing my browser. For me, Flash does suck, and I'm glad that there are alternatives being developed and popularized. I thank <insert your imaginary deity here> every day for Click2Flash.
Sure, perhaps it doesn't make it seem like the rumors/news reporters here are the most thorough if it is true that a positive follow up to the Flash on Android occurred and wasn't updated, but to paint the whole rumors/news part of the site with the same brush over one story is unfair. It's one story whose follow up was missed.
I browse other Apple and tech sites besides this one, and I would say that they are all pretty much the same in terms of content, consistency and objectivity. Actually, there are a couple of other Apple-specific sites that seem far more fanboy-like than this one.
I think the editors are doing a decent job (even though there are some stories that are put on Page 1 that really don't deserve it
MacRumors is an Apple news and Rumors site. The person I quoted said that its just an Apple rumor site... he forgot that it was also an Apple news site.
You're asking for citations? LOL. Here you go. https://www.macrumors.com/site.php?mode=archive.
No, YOU are beating a dead horse. See next point below.
I believe OP first post used the Flash story as an example, but if you read his entire post, he is pointing out the bigger picture: MacRumors is biased, and he requests that all future stories (Flash or otherwise) not be so biased or opinionated.
Again, story is an example of MacRumors biased reporting. Do you understand or do you need more "citations"?
Is this thread still going?
Does it really matter?
Im sure the Admin team have garnished what they can from this thread. They may act on it, they may not.
Ridiculous.
You just keep giving people more and more reasons not to take you seriously.
Besides, my post wasn't directed at you; I was asking thejadedmonkey for citations to his claims.
Yeah, this thread is still going. Sorry 'bout that.
LOL. Glad I'm not the only one to notice this. https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/10905602/
The solution to this madness is for MacRumors to do less editorializing of their news stories, or better yet, features stories that live up to this site's namesake, Apple and Mac RUMORS.
You may have a point that the reporting on Flash performance is showing bias, but you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater when you describe the entire site using terms like "trashy" and "kool-aide".
Arn and MR as a whole is pro-Apple overall, to be sure, but I've been here for six years and I honestly (trying to be as objective as possible) think it is totally unfair to call the whole site a propaganda machine. Is it perfectly objective? No, it isn't. But YOU are the one that is being unfair, frankly, by broad-brushing the whole site that way.
You have also chosen a more confrontational approach, despite your sprinkings of "
" in responses, and that is going to generate strong reactions, because people are going to assume you're looking for a fight.LOL
Exactly. Hence this very thread...
You know what...
I will go that far and say that this very post is arguably one of the best if not the best one in entire thread...
When it comes down to rumors on this site I think MR is doing one hell of a job! No doubt about it...
Also, rumors - by default - can not be questioned in regards to bias, objectivity, facts, "reality-check" etc... Rumors are just that - rumors...
However, problem with this place is with the news which CAN NOT possibly be treated by editorial in the same way as rumors are treated!!!!
With rumors you are perfectly OK by doing quick copy / paste - who cares - it is only rumor... If it turns out to be true - great! If not - screw it - it was just a rumor anyway...
But MR is treating, headlining and publishing actual NEWS in exactly the same way as they treat rumors - which is frekn pathetic amateur LOL all the way up to the sky
NEWS, dear MR, needs RESEARCH!
You can't just rush and copy / paste any bullcrap out there and call it news! You need to do some research - find some counter arguments - combine the two, three even four sources with, ideally, your own research / tests and only then publish the article as NEWS...
By treating news as rumors you are effectively spreading nonsensical propaganda and garbage and degrading your reputation to Fox News and The Sun tabloid - which is bottom of the smelliest pit in the middle-earth!
Question only is, are you doing it intentionally or by simply not being that great journalists and mere amateurs...
Time will tell!
Thanks for your input JadedM!
Awesome post and pretty much bang on in every respect...
I'm afraid you've completely lost me now. This kind of talk does your argument no favours.
Fortunately, you don't have to come here and be lied to, and you can create your own site and fix all of these horrible shortcomings.
True, then it's just a post, as you are so good at reminding us.
What is not clear?
With rumor - I presume - you can have some sort of reliable or unreliable source and all you can do really is copy / paste it without taking any responsibility... Since rumor is just a rumor... Job done!
But you can't report news in the same way - reporting news carries some sort of responsibility and requires some sort of research and factual backing...
Hence I agree with Dylan when he said this site should just stick with Apple / Mac RUMORS and be done with the news part since they either can't do the job properly or they are doing it in such way that is easy to compare them to Fox...
Ofc, I would love if MR can provide me with the news too - but in that case they should start doing their job properly and focus on what we already said few times - from being way less biased to miles more objective!
Hope it is clearer now...
Dylan made great point by all means!
It's impossible to be 100% objective when it comes to reporting. A news anchor who's script is 100% neutral can still show bias in how he reads it. However, the issue isn't so much any bias', as about how it's presented as unbiased.
As per request, I spent a few minutes coming up with some links that demonstrate what I mean when I say
Here's an example of an old rumor
Here's an example of old news
The current rumor articles are still decent and mostly unchanged, except perhaps with more sources.
But lets look at the current news situation. What about this has to do with Apple/Mac/iDevices
https://www.macrumors.com/2010/08/26/mpeg-la-declares-h-264-standard-permanently-royalty-free/
https://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/29/amazon-announces-new-kindles-139-wi-fi-189-3g/
https://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/12/atandt-trialling-free-3g-microcell-offers/
The fact is, there's more to this site than just Apple anymore. But there's no directive. Can I submit a blog link saying how awesome I am, and have it make the front page? Why does the kindle get promo'd, when the Nook doesn't?
Lastly, there's a lot of plain old BS floating about.
Obviously, there's the flash on android article. I won't beat a dead horse.
But then there's this little gem. In order to break a world record, Guinness needs to certify it. As part of my job, I recently recorded footage of the University of Pittsburgh breaking the world record for the largest torchlit logo. The old record was 500 people. Pitt got 3000+ students. In order for it to be valid, we needed 10 minutes of uninterrupted footage of it. We had 3 notary publics on hand, as well as an official witness, and filmed for 12 minutes, with 3 separate cameras, to be certain there wouldn't be any issues. The article that this article links to is praising the Samsung text input.
If you look at the article, it says "The story was a bit suspicious in that apparently the woman had just walked in off the street". What's suspicious about that? If the world record is slow, and Samsung is heavily advertising a chance to break a world record, why couldn't someone break it?
But yet the article paints Samsung (and Swype) in a bad light, and Apple as amazing, when really it has nothing to do with Apple or Samsung, but rather Guinness.
Last one. The article on iAds. Again, this article is trying to explain how horrible iAds are, and how much they don't work. But it's a single source. There's no collaborating evidence, no other sources. But it's presented as news, as a fact, when in reality, until you have more than a single report, there's no way to tell if this "news" is noteworthy, or very uncommon.
There's a big difference between reporting on news and creating the news. MR rarely writes anything on its own. They just post articles and make comments on them. It's very much more of a blog than anything and should be seen as such.
I think the non-commenting from most of the mods should be the biggest answer for people here. While the OP could have made a decent approach to the question he claims to be after, all of his follow up comments have derailed himself and no one can really take him seriously anymore. There's no point in commenting when people have already made up their mind.
Let's say MR flat out lies in their news reports, reports on rumors 3 weeks after those rumors first appear on their original sites, and includes no links within the reports.
What would be the MR community reaction then? Yes, MR's owners can anything they want (or even shut the whole site down), but is that necessarily beneficial?
Nothing. It's another way to divert from the real points discussed by the OP and others in this thread. There's too much of this diversionary statements, and they're all coming from one side of the debate here.
You can accuse MR of being selective in some cases, but not lying, because MR links to sources. MR itself rarely, if ever, serves as an actual news source. As with all "news", the reader has a responsibility to see the bias in the reporting and seek alternative sources for balance.
Anyways -=XX=-Nephilim, you've made a couple valid points but the way you go about making them is not very conducive to civil discussion.
Anyways -=XX=-Nephilim, you've made a couple valid points but the way you go about making them is not very conducive to civil discussion.
Do you need citations too? Can you please explain how a certain delivery by the OP destroys points of his argument?
Last time I checked, this topic is about MacRumors being biased, not about whether =XXX=-Nephilim's delivery is insulting or trollish, this "destroying his own argument". Poppycock. Your argument of ad hominen holds no water!
you have to realize this a a website about apple products. as such, fanboy-dom comes with the territory.
im not saying i agree with OP, im just saying there is a logical reason for a place like macrumors being one sided. its a site for apple enthusiasts and sometimes people love apple's products so much that they tend to bash competitors or the like (ie the flash hate or general windows bashing).
im not saying i agree with OP, im just saying there is a logical reason for a place like macrumors being one sided. its a site for apple enthusiasts and sometimes people love apple's products so much that they tend to bash competitors or the like (ie the flash hate or general windows bashing).
I'm sorry, but those sources didn't really supoprt your argument.
I appreciate the time and effort though. For real.
Your citings all have reasonable explanations as to why they are on this site:
H.264 is a standard that Apple supports as an alternative to Flash.
The Kindle is thought to be competition to the iPad.
The AT&T MicroCell might be of interest to all iPhone users in the US. Hell, I know that I called AT&T and got one after reading that article.
I think that arn was implying that the woman who "walked in off the street" was a set up. They tried to make it look like anyone who has never used that phone could text that fast. He was suggesting that she was someone who has experience with Swype, and wasn't just some girl off the street.
And to the poster who seems to think that citations are unimportant: Please educate yourself.
Oh, and Lord Blackadder, I think you've got it.
Morning all
Sure thing, but cherry picking and publishing articles that line up perfectly with SJ's interests while ignoring other, way more objective and way more reliable sources, which don't necessarily follow or agree with politics coming out of cupertino - is what exactly? Sorry, but to me lying directly or indirectly equals to the same thing...
It kinda shows what misinformation does to people... This quote could be yet another call and reason for more informative, objective and unbiased reporting...
Believe it or not but you do agree with OP since he is saying the same...
Only difference is that he would rather have objective reporting instead of 'kool-aid' shoved down his throat... That's all...
Seriously!? Wow...
What insult by the way!?
By calling MR news reporting LOL-able and amateur at very best?
If so, then be it
I stand behind it fully...
By the way, they are insulting US by doing crap job much more than we are 'insulting' them by pointing at the obvious...
In fact, they should come into this thread and thank us all for such a valuable feedback instead of pretending that nothing is going on...
I beg to differ... sorry!
Exactly the point I am trying make... There is nothing wrong with rumors part of this site - quite the opposite in fact! But news are in most instances so weak or pointless or biased or badly headlined or nothing but sheer propaganda or have nothing to do with the reality what-so-ever or all of it combined...
I think, perhaps, that main problem is that same guy(s) are dealing with both, rumors and news, and that both are treated in the same way, published in the same way and piled into the same basket...
Perhaps MR should have 2 separate teams - one dealing with what is news and another with what is rumors... Maybe...
Indeed...
I would also add weird timing of such 'news' too...
Friday: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/856606/
Friday: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/912313/
Friday: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/893264/
Friday: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/893397/
Friday: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/997976/
etc... But sure, it could have been coincidence...
Main point and questions still remain though - why never, or hardly ever, publish any counter arguments?
Only in this very thread there are at least 4-5 links, including one from the CNET, which never saw light of the day on MR and probably never will... Why is that?
meh...
EDIT:
Accidentally, I have just come across another video / demo - worth seeing for sure!
http://www.smartphonesreview.org/android-2-2-froyo-flash-test-with-evo-4g/
Also, another interesting review - equally worth seeing:
http://electricpig.co.uk/2010/08/20/htc-desire-froyo-review/
Quote:
"One of the most visible changes is the addition of Flash support. We’re not talking halfway support like the HTC had before, we’re talking the full works, as though you were simply using a desktop browser instead of a HTC Desire Froyo phone. It really does work perfectly, and it’s a delight being able to log on to any site knowing you’ll be able to play the video (4oD for instance).
Flash videos play smoothly, in the browser or in full screen, without a hitch. And the beauty is that you’re never quite sure when you’re playing a Flash video or mobile friendly one which would have played before: the point is you needn’t concern yourself with such distinctions, and it makes Steve Jobs’ arguments against Flash on mobile look very weak indeed."
Is above worth Page 1 headline on MR?
If previous article published few days ago was then I can't see reason why something like this wouldn't be...
Sure thing, but cherry picking and publishing articles that line up perfectly with SJ's interests while ignoring other, way more objective and way more reliable sources, which don't necessarily follow or agree with politics coming out of cupertino - is what exactly? Sorry, but to me lying directly or indirectly equals to the same thing...
Surely said:
It kinda shows what misinformation does to people... This quote could be yet another call and reason for more informative, objective and unbiased reporting...
ZazenZach said:
Believe it or not but you do agree with OP since he is saying the same...
Only difference is that he would rather have objective reporting instead of 'kool-aid' shoved down his throat... That's all...
Skunk said:
Seriously!? Wow...
What insult by the way!?
By calling MR news reporting LOL-able and amateur at very best?
If so, then be it
I stand behind it fully...
By the way, they are insulting US by doing crap job much more than we are 'insulting' them by pointing at the obvious...
In fact, they should come into this thread and thank us all for such a valuable feedback instead of pretending that nothing is going on...
Surely said:
I beg to differ... sorry!
thejadedmonkey said:
Exactly the point I am trying make... There is nothing wrong with rumors part of this site - quite the opposite in fact! But news are in most instances so weak or pointless or biased or badly headlined or nothing but sheer propaganda or have nothing to do with the reality what-so-ever or all of it combined...
I think, perhaps, that main problem is that same guy(s) are dealing with both, rumors and news, and that both are treated in the same way, published in the same way and piled into the same basket...
Perhaps MR should have 2 separate teams - one dealing with what is news and another with what is rumors... Maybe...
thejadedmonkey said:
Indeed...
I would also add weird timing of such 'news' too...
Friday: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/856606/
Friday: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/912313/
Friday: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/893264/
Friday: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/893397/
Friday: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/997976/
etc... But sure, it could have been coincidence...
Main point and questions still remain though - why never, or hardly ever, publish any counter arguments?
Only in this very thread there are at least 4-5 links, including one from the CNET, which never saw light of the day on MR and probably never will... Why is that?
meh...
EDIT:
Accidentally, I have just come across another video / demo - worth seeing for sure!
http://www.smartphonesreview.org/android-2-2-froyo-flash-test-with-evo-4g/
Also, another interesting review - equally worth seeing:
http://electricpig.co.uk/2010/08/20/htc-desire-froyo-review/
Quote:
"One of the most visible changes is the addition of Flash support. We’re not talking halfway support like the HTC had before, we’re talking the full works, as though you were simply using a desktop browser instead of a HTC Desire Froyo phone. It really does work perfectly, and it’s a delight being able to log on to any site knowing you’ll be able to play the video (4oD for instance).
Flash videos play smoothly, in the browser or in full screen, without a hitch. And the beauty is that you’re never quite sure when you’re playing a Flash video or mobile friendly one which would have played before: the point is you needn’t concern yourself with such distinctions, and it makes Steve Jobs’ arguments against Flash on mobile look very weak indeed."
Is above worth Page 1 headline on MR?
If previous article published few days ago was then I can't see reason why something like this wouldn't be...