Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Oh ok.. So you read it. Don't have any experience.. Ok I see. You're a tool.

You should really get out of your moms basement. Says my girlfriend that loves reading and watching flash videos on a crappy 7" Tab..

Thank you for simply insulting me and completely failing to justify anything you wrote or explain how a crappier device with a smaller screen and an inferior format gives a better experience than a superior device using a native app on a bigger screen.

By the way, my girlfriend owns a 7" Galaxy Tab and she says its the absolute worst device she's ever used. She prefers to call all the news stations on the phone and have them manually read the news to her one story at a time and then mail over VHS tapes of any interesting stories and then watch them on a 2" portable TV than to use the Tab. In fact, she uses the Tab as a doorstop in the house because she says the only thing it's good for is being a brick.
 
Thank you for simply insulting me and completely failing to justify anything you wrote or explain how a crappier device with a smaller screen and an inferior format gives a better experience than a superior device using a native app on a bigger screen.

By the way, my girlfriend owns a 7" Galaxy Tab and she says its the absolute worst device she's ever used. She prefers to call all the news stations on the phone and have them manually read the news to her one story at a time and then mail over VHS tapes of any interesting stories than to use the Tab. In fact, she uses the Tab as a doorstop in the house because she says the only thing it's good for is being a brick.

Like I said you're a tool and I'm lying.

Some people actually like surfing the web, going from tab to tab and not having to open an app, then close it then go to another app. Maybe just maybe.
Whatever..

You probably don't even own anything apple and you're mom just bought an iPad and maybe even got you an iPhone. Just keep saving that allowance money, then maybe a MP or MBP is in your future.
 
Last edited:
The market has already spoken. Apple can't make iPads fast enough and none of the competitors have come close in sales.

Sorry, but this proves to me how little the general public cares about flash, despite the lame marketing attempts to use that sole feature as a reason to buy an Android tablet.

All of the major sites are gearing toward mobile devices with no need for flash support and this trend will just continue, despite what a bunch of backward-looking flash fanboys want to think.

Edit: interesting read: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20072258-64/the-ipad-is-the-tablet-market-for-now/
 
Last edited:
VERY easily resolved with a browser update. Not a good argument....

Seriously? Many large corporations would disagree.

In addition, browser support for HTML5 is all over the map: some browsers support one set of features, some another. Apple's Safari has been a notable
laggard in supporting HTML5.

Flash doesn't have any of these issues.

CSS compares to Flash how? :confused:
...

I am confused, too. It just shows how knowledgeable most Apple fanboys are. :rolleyes:

...
Us Apple zealots, on the other hand, believe (see, I could have been an ass and put "realize") that a tablet should be a extremely functional and no BS device. It should run our apps and run them perfectly. ... Android simply can't compare in this regard.
...

Dude, you've obviously never seen a recent Android device. I have both an iPad and a Nexus S. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, but on the whole, they are largely similar (my Nexus S uses a launcher which makes it look just like iOS and I have all Suave HD icons). But the Android does Flash perfectly, I can tether at airports and I don't have to jailbreak constantly -- I have not even rooted it.

I personally don't find much use for the iPad (or any other tablet, for that matter -- I prefer to read on a Kindle DXG, because of the e-Ink screen, and I travel with a Mac Book Pro), so it's pretty much a doorstop, but I can see how others with different needs may differ.

...Apple has been very deliberate in rolling out features such as cut and paste only after they are fully baked.

Not really. A lot of things were pretty raw when iOS debuted. The first iPhone was 2G at a time when everyone else was moving to 3G. Hell, Apple at first wasn't even going to allow third-party apps, until users started howling and Android loomed on the horizon -- then Apple figured they can make money with it, so they allowed it....

If Apple can figure out how to make money by allowing Flash in, the next big feature on iOS will be Flash. Then all the fanboys will be bragging how cool it is, and how it runs better under iOS than on any other platform.
 
Last edited:
I really wish they'd start selling these phones and tablets to the public that everyone on this forum owns that do Flash perfectly.

I don't think I've ever seen any review/reviewer that would agree with that statement. Hell, the CEO of Adobe didn't have much to say when Walt Mossberg called out the poor performance of Flash on mobile devices.
 
Last edited:
I really wish they'd start selling these phones and tablets to the public that everyone on this forum owns that do Flash perfectly.
...

My Nexus S runs Flash totally fine and it's not even a dual core device, like the newer Tegra 2s, etc..

But, I guess they say "blessed are the ignorant" for a reason. :rolleyes:
 
My Nexus S runs Flash totally fine and it's not even a dual core device, like the newer Tegra 2s, etc..

But, I guess they say "blessed are the ignorant" for a reason. :rolleyes:
Yes, thank you for providing any sort of evidence, regardless of the fact that it's well known that mobile Flash has many issues.

When you say it runs totally fine do you mean you can watch Flash videos (sometimes)?
 
Not really. A lot of things were pretty raw when iOS debuted.

Such as...

The first iPhone was 2G at a time when everyone else was moving to 3G.

Which would support my point over yours.

Hell, Apple at first wasn't even going to allow third-party apps, until users started howling and Android loomed on the horizon -- then Apple figured they can make money with it, so they allowed it....

Says the guy who claimed that Apple had iAd planned before Google acquired Android. At least try and be consistent in your conspiracy theory.
 
...Says the guy who claimed that Apple had iAd planned before Google acquired Android. At least try and be consistent in your conspiracy theory.

...Says the guy who thinks that CSS is the same as Flash....

Apple started developing the iPhone in 2005, the same year that Google acquired Android. The iPhone launched in 2007, while the first Android phone was pushed out in late 2008.

Mobile was the next "big thing" and mobile advertising was where the industry expected expansion to occur. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's a fact.

Google wanted to make sure they were not displaced in the mobile world, thus we have the open-source, free Android, which ensures that searches and ads stay in the Google sphere.

Flash works great for Google's model, since any Flash ads geared towards desktop browsers generate revenue for Google on Android devices.

Steve Jobs banked on stats that people don't search on mobile phones, so he pushed in-app advertising.

Flash is bad for the in-app ads model, because it allows content providers and advertisers to bypass Apple. So Steve Jobs blasts Flash.

Get it now?
 
Says the guy who claimed that Apple had iAd planned before Google acquired Android. At least try and be consistent in your conspiracy theory.

Don't waste your time. macUser has yet to make a single coherent argument. He's all over the place in his conspiracy theories.


...Says the guy who thinks that CSS is the same as Flash....

I'm the poster who mentioned CSS. You know, it's extremely frustrating even bothering discussing anything with people like you, because you're so thick that you must purposefully distort everything that someone says. In regards to CSS, I was making fun of that vomit-inducing horribly designed website that someone linked, and I said how they used Flash to layout their header, menu, footer, content, etc. And it looked like absolute crap. I said they could use HTML/CSS to layout their header, menu, footer, and content and it would look infinitely better, and avoid having people load Flash for something that doesn't need Flash in the first place. Don't be a purposefully difficult and act like I (or anyone) don't know the difference between CSS and Flash.

Let's be honest. Flash brings nothing to the table. It sucks ass for laying out a website (see that previous link for a prime example.) We don't need it to stream video any more. Native-app games are infinitely better. What is Flash good for again? Nothing.

Flash is bad for the in-app ads model, because it allows content providers and advertisers to bypass Apple. So Steve Jobs blasts Flash.

Conspiracy theory drivel. Flash sucks and it runs like crap on mobile devices. Also, Flash wasn't even ready for release when iOS was in its early days. Apple not letting Flash on their devices has absolutely nothing to do with in-app ads. They sure don't block HTML ads!

----

You know, it's pretty crazy. These Android kids, they act like they are advanced computer users, because they want access to their file system and widgets and "live" (blech!) backgrounds. And yet they want an ancient crappy technology on their devices. I don't get it. It's like they know deep down that Flash is a piece of crap, but they have to defend it because they feel like it validates their choice in a second-rate mobile OS. Bizarre.
 
Last edited:
...Says the guy who thinks that CSS is the same as Flash....

Stop making stuff up. I never said anything of the sort.

Apple started developing the iPhone in 2005, the same year that Google acquired Android. The iPhone launched in 2007, while the first Android phone was pushed out in late 2008.

Mobile was the next "big thing" and mobile advertising was where the industry expected expansion to occur. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's a fact.

Okay, not completely factual, but reasonable.

Google wanted to make sure they were not displaced in the mobile world, thus we have the open-source, free Android, which ensures that searches and ads stay in the Google sphere.

"Ensures"? How?

Flash works great for Google's model, since any Flash ads geared towards desktop browsers generate revenue for Google on Android devices.

So do all the other kinds of ads on iOS devices.

Steve Jobs banked on stats that people don't search on mobile phones, so he pushed in-app advertising.

Okay? In app ads were common before iAd, but whatever.

Flash is bad for the in-app ads model, because it allows content providers and advertisers to bypass Apple. So Steve Jobs blasts Flash.

Here is where you lose me. Content provider and advertisers can bypass Apple in app and in browser anyway.

BUT... the point you were supposed to be responding to is that you completely messed up the timeline in your conspiracy theory.
 
^^ Yup exactly. Apple doesn't have any type of "lock down" on mobile ads in either Safari or apps.

App developers can use whatever service they want for in-app ads. Apple makes iAds extremely easy to setup and use - just a few lines of code, and a few clicks to enable the contracts. But the developer is free to use which ever ad service they want in their app. Apple doesn't care.

Likewise, website designers are free to use whatever they want for ads. If they want iOS users to see their ads then they need to switch to HTML. In fact, with so many people using Flash blockers and stuff like that, it would be wise of web designers to stop using Flash ads and use HTML.

As you (macUser, etc) can clearly see, Apple does not lock down the platform to prevent Apple from getting ad revenue. Apple is just a player in the ad game, and we can either choose to use them or choose not to use them. It's as simple as that. With these facts in hand, I can't see how you could ever say that not allowing Flash has anything to do with ads.

Incontrovertibly, Flash was not allowed on mobile devices because it was not (and is still now) ready for mobile deployment and it is just plain unnecessary. Native apps and HTML5/CSS is the future.
 
^^ Yup exactly. Apple doesn't have any type of "lock down" on mobile ads in either Safari or apps.

Incontrovertibly, Flash was not allowed on mobile devices because it was not (and is still now) ready for mobile deployment and it is just plain unnecessary. Native apps and HTML5/CSS is the future.

Why all this argument over a piece of technology? Must it really be one or the other?

I for one use "clicktoflash" on my macbook to be able to use the promised 7 hours. With flash enabled I'm lucky to get 5. When watching a full flash based movie, I'm lucky if my macbook lasts 3 hours.

But that's the whole argument isn't it? I'm on a website watching a full movie in flash format. I'm not very knowledgable on this whole dilemma, but it seems like bad business to have a media store such as itunes, and allow a piece of tech that would take away business. I for once buy no movies or shows from itunes once I've seen them on the web. It may not be the best image quality, but it certainly saves from $50 to $100 monthly. And I'm watching them in flash and on my macbook instead of my "comfortable" ipad because I can't find them, at least most of them, in a format on the web supported by the Ipad or iphone.

I'm all for flash going away if it means every web site, every movie site, will support another kind of tech which my ipad uses and saves battery time. The sooner the better. But are we there yet? Especially when I can't use my ipad at my university due to its blackboard and account management systems being entirely flash based.

In some circumstances it sucks. In others, flash is still necessary.
 
...

More often than not I'm carrying my macbook all day with me and leaving the Ipad behind, 4 days out of the week when I'm at school. And when I'm finally in bed and wish to watch one of those free bad quality movies that I'll only watch once (so I don't see the point in spending $5) I use the macbook.

...

I guessing this tablet-flash discussion is all up to a person's needs and wants. And the ipad no longer cuts it in my personal experience. I'll be waiting for the new batch of tablets this coming september and I'll be selling the ipad.

You're going to sell your iPad because it won't let you watch movies that you should be paying for for free? Do you not see anything wrong with that, or do you only see that you're not able to save $5 illegally?
 
Pandora has rebuilt it's front-end in super fast HTML5, dropping support for antiquated Flash.

http://www.pandora.com/newpandora

Another nail in Flash's coffin. The more that this happens, the better.

I still stand by my statement: any competing mobile OS that brags about supporting Flash is in fact advertising a negative feature. Flash is a step backwards and supporting Flash is merely a diversion so people can overlook your poorly designed OS. Concentrate on the user experience and quit trying to tack on "features" that are really just distractors.

Doesn't matter if companies are dumping Flash for HTML5, the point is many webpages are still coded with Flash now. Pandora is just 1 website. One of the simple benefits to moving to HTML5 is cost as it's an open format unlike Flash which is proprietary. I'm all for HTML5 however not at the cost of losing access to Flash-only sites that I frequent now.

To me the decision to simply dump Flash support was just a flex of power by Apple to tell you what you should not be using. Part of that is also the customer's responsibility since Apple doesn't exactly hold a gun to anyone's head and force you to buy/use their products.
 
Why all this argument over a piece of technology? Must it really be one or the other?

I for one use "clicktoflash" on my macbook to be able to use the promised 7 hours. With flash enabled I'm lucky to get 5. When watching a full flash based movie, I'm lucky if my macbook lasts 3 hours.

Your post is a paradox. In the first part (above), you seem to understand why Flash has no place on a mobile device, and int he second part (below) you lose your grip on the reasoning.

Look at what Flash did to your MacBook. Your MacBook is more powerful than your iPad. What do you think Flash does to a mobile device's battery life. Flash is slow, it's buggy, and it's a resource hog. The Flash "mobile experience" is a joke. It just doesn't work well. The only people who seem to say it works are the Flash/Android fanboys in this thread. EVERY OTHER user in the entire world, it seems, has problems with it.

Again I ask: What does Flash bring to the table? Why does the future need Flash? We surely don't need it to stream video. We don't need it to make websites look nice. We don't need it for games.


But that's the whole argument isn't it? I'm on a website watching a full movie in flash format. I'm not very knowledgable on this whole dilemma, but it seems like bad business to have a media store such as itunes, and allow a piece of tech that would take away business. I for once buy no movies or shows from itunes once I've seen them on the web. It may not be the best image quality, but it certainly saves from $50 to $100 monthly. And I'm watching them in flash and on my macbook instead of my "comfortable" ipad because I can't find them, at least most of them, in a format on the web supported by the Ipad or iphone.

I'll ignore the whole issue that you're likely pirating movies. And we will ignore the fact that Hulu, Netflix, YouTube, HBO Go, and all sorts of other native apps exist for the iPad that allow you to stream movies in fantastic quality. I'll also ignore that I can't even think of a single website, outside of Hulu, that allows you to legally stream movies for free (if there are others, I really don't care.)

Moving on: This is the part of the post where you lose it. The ability for Flash to stream video has absolutely nothing to do with why Apple doesn't allow it in iOS. This is the exact same incorrect argument that was made about ads. HTML5 allows you to stream video. Any website that streams video using Flash can simply use HTML5 to stream it instead. Apple does not "prevent" that, despite that it may, in your opinion, hurt their revenue. Apple doesn't lock down their system and prevent people from putting whatever content they want, or viewing whatever content they want. I've streamed porn on my iPad. Works perfect. They simply don't let Flash on the device. That's all. Use HTML5 instead, and you're good to go.


Doesn't matter if companies are dumping Flash for HTML5, the point is many webpages are still coded with Flash now. Pandora is just 1 website. One of the simple benefits to moving to HTML5 is cost as it's an open format unlike Flash which is proprietary. I'm all for HTML5 however not at the cost of losing access to Flash-only sites that I frequent now.

It does matter. The point is that websites are dropping Flash. Pandora & FaceBook are two of the biggest names on the web, and they don't use Flash now. That's significant. What you're missing is that if people don't start dropping Flash then we'll never be able to get away from it.

These websites want people to view their content. These websites want nothing more than to serve content to as many people as possible. If iPads (the absolute most popular tablet on Earth) can't see your Flash webpage, and if you don't have a native app, then that website is going to be left in the dust. You can bet your balls these websites are going to switch over to HTML5. There's absolutely no reason to stick with Flash.

See, what you also have to realize is this: Let's look at Pandora. It was coded in Flash originally. That means that Pandora is reliant upon Adobe to make sure that Flash works perfectly, is maintained, and is secure. Pandora is huge. Can you imagine your company being totally reliant on another to work perfectly? I can't. The same plays for Apple: they would be totally reliant upon Adobe to make a nice version of Flash and then Apple would have all their eggs in one basket with Flash for Safari. That's scary. There's no room for screw ups like that in the mobile industry. And let's be honest. Adobe is not the company you want to be placing all your bets with.

Clearly, we can see that it is in no company's interest to keep using Flash. Flash was a crutch due to a lack of web technology at the time. Technology has improved, and that crutch is no longer needed.

RIP FLASH!
 
Last edited:
My Nexus S runs Flash totally fine and it's not even a dual core device, like the newer Tegra 2s, etc..

But, I guess they say "blessed are the ignorant" for a reason. :rolleyes:

This just isn't true....

I have a Samsung Galaxy S (the closed source sister of your phone), and I have come across many instances where I tried to load flash, and that particular flash module didn't work for a mobile device. Or, it's a video and it works but it is slow and it's awkward to have it not automatically switch to full screen. Or (and this happens often enough), it works just fine.

Flash doesnt reliability run "totally fine" on an Android but I suppose you could find a few select examples where the performance is adequate depending on what it's trying to do. But I wouldn't say it works "totally fine.". This is not desktop flash.
 
I think this paragraph ought to go under the "Concern Troll" Bridge of Fame.

Well, since I'm an attorney, we need our documents to retain formatting, we heavily use comments and footnotes, and we use track changes for nearly every document. Is Pages capable of handling these tasks nowadays? Since you call me a troll, I suppose you can show me how I've been using it incorrectly :)
 
Look at what Flash did to your MacBook. Your MacBook is more powerful than your iPad. What do you think Flash does to a mobile device's battery life. Flash is slow, it's buggy, and it's a resource hog. The Flash "mobile experience" is a joke. It just doesn't work well. The only people who seem to say it works are the Flash/Android fanboys in this thread. EVERY OTHER user in the entire world, it seems, has problems with it.

Replace Flash with streaming an HTML video and the same is true.

Of course Android users will say it works; that's not because they're fanboys, that's because they are able to use it and weigh in with an opinion that iOS users can't.


I'll ignore the whole issue that you're likely pirating movies. And we will ignore the fact that Hulu, Netflix, YouTube, HBO Go, and all sorts of other native apps exist for the iPad that allow you to stream movies in fantastic quality. I'll also ignore that I can't even think of a single website, outside of Hulu, that allows you to legally stream movies for free (if there are others, I really don't care.)

I guess that just as with Flash, if you don't know about it, it must not exist.

Crunchy Roll, Crackle, Fandor, Snag Films, etc.

See, what you also have to realize is this: Let's look at Pandora. It was coded in Flash originally. That means that Pandora is reliant upon Adobe to make sure that Flash works perfectly, is maintained, and is secure. Pandora is huge. Can you imagine your company being totally reliant on another to work perfectly? I can't. The same plays for Apple: they would be totally reliant upon Adobe to make a nice version of Flash and then Apple would have all their eggs in one basket with Flash for Safari. That's scary. There's no room for screw ups like that in the mobile industry. And let's be honest. Adobe is not the company you want to be placing all your bets with.

And for their feature set Flash worked perfectly, on all browsers. So that wasn't an issue. HTML5 doesn't solve this reliance issue, because now they have to hope that all browsers support the same set of HTML5 features, which they don't all do. They still have to rely on a 3rd party, but now there are many many third parties. Not only that, but they have to spend far more time testing across a myriad of browsers to make sure everything works. Hell, Gawker still has problems making sure their redesign works well across the board and they don't even deal with the smaller mobile screens.
 
Last edited:
I guess that just as with Flash, if you don't know about it, it must not exist.

Crunchy Roll, Crackle, Fandor, Snag Films, etc..

I find it curious that you would name these particular sites as justification for the necessity of Flash. (See Crackle and Snag Films iOS Apps.) Even Fandor seems likely to introduce an iOS App in the near future:

and moving forward, the iPad and iPhone will be huge for the kind of films we carry. These devices are what people already have, and they're going to be watching movies

In other words, from a users perspective, it certainly seems that the "must have" nature of Flash is disappearing day by day.

But from a provider's perspective? Certainly you can make the argument that Flash is more convenient and/or easier to set up. But there is more to running a succesful content business than ease of set-up.

There is also the issue of user-experience. And a browser plug-in, like Flash, is never going to give as good an experience as a standalone App. If you are already using up a certain percentage of your RAM and processor cycles running a browser (plus widgets, etc.) - then it is all but inevitable that video performance is going to suffer. ESPECIALLY on a mobile device.

Then there is the issue of DRM. These sites exist to make money, and to protect the copyright of content creators. Again, a lot easier to do with a "closed, wall-garden" device like an iPad.

And lastly, there is the issue of getting paid. For whatever reason, iOS users have proven more likely to pay for content than their Android-favoring contemporaries. (Fill in your own explanation for this phenomenon.)
 
I find it curious that you would name these particular sites as justification for the necessity of Flash...

I agree that most of them have native apps on iOS, but then again, I don't see web video as the only reason to have flash; I also know that many videos I try to view on youtube do not have iOS equivalents.

So you can hate it all you want, and wish it went away, but its still relevant.
 
Your post is a paradox. In the first part (above), you seem to understand why Flash has no place on a mobile device, and int he second part (below) you lose your grip on the reasoning.

RIP FLASH!

I definitely understand your points completely. But what I don't understand is this "hate" (if I may I call it so) of a piece of tech, in this case flash.

Whether anyone agrees with my desire to watch a flash movie or show from megavideo or similar sites without needing to pay itunes is irrelevant to me. Call it pirating. I call it the impatience of waiting for netflix to update its service.

And as far as my post being paradoxical, I agree that it is so. I see that flash drains my battery and that sucks. But at the end of the day what i want to watch can only be found in flash format. And I more than happily deal with the choice of being able to turn flash on and off my MacBook.

I've been searching for an app that will allow me to visit such websites from my iPad but I can't find one that works consistently. Skyfire will only load a few sites in between, and another app for flash videos is "puffin" which loads megavideo videos but does not offer the option to go foward. When it crashes it forces you to restart the video.

I don't hate nor love flash. Or apple, Although I own a Mac, an iPad and an iPhone due to their outstanding quality and service. And I don't want flash to die or survive. At the end of the day I simply want to be able to use tech in a way that satisfies. Isn't that why we all buy tech? I don't know about most of the flash performance on mobile devices as I don't own an android phone or pad, but the one device I have used, a samsung galaxy tab 10 inches was able to play the cited website above and stream video quite as well as puffin.

I'll be shopping for a tablet next year but I'm not sure it will be the iPad3. Of course it would be unimaginably hard giving up on the service, quality and ecosystem offered by apple. At the end of the day I understand that not being able to stream a website on my iPad is not the end of the world. I can do so on my Mac or my ps3. :) I just wish I had the choice. Bad experience or not. Turn it on or off like I do with the Mac and ps3.
 
I don't hate nor love flash. Or apple, Although I own a Mac, an iPad and an iPhone due to their outstanding quality and service. And I don't want flash to die or survive. At the end of the day I simply want to be able to use tech in a way that satisfies. Isn't that why we all buy tech? I don't know about most of the flash performance on mobile devices as I don't own an android phone or pad, but the one device I have used, a samsung galaxy tab 10 inches was able to play the cited website above and stream video quite as well as puffin.

I'll be shopping for a tablet next year but I'm not sure it will be the iPad3. Of course it would be unimaginably hard giving up on the service, quality and ecosystem offered by apple. At the end of the day I understand that not being able to stream a website on my iPad is not the end of the world. I can do so on my Mac or my ps3. :) I just wish I had the choice. Bad experience or not. Turn it on or off like I do with the Mac and ps3.

well-said. i just want to get stuff done. the ipad is wonderful, but there is a package of things i want a tablet to do, and it is not quite there. when someone reaches that point, i'll definitely get it! so, instead of celebrating death, i am looking forward to a new birth. maybe the ipad 3 with a flash toggle and a few other features i have been waiting for :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.