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There is an ancient proverb:

When in a hole, stop digging

I can understand why Apple is trying to deflect the issue (it's certainly a cheap solution) but to simply point to the competition does not take away the fact that the iPhone 4, in its current state, has a design flaw. In fact, this sounds like the sort of statement that we hear from politicians that drives us all nuts when they are being brought to book for something - suggesting that the other parties are bad does not make your own bad decision less bad. This isn't fooling anyone.

At this stage Apple probably has done about as much as they can until the design flaw is actually fixed. The best they can likely do now is bunker down and hope that this all blows over in time. Further statements like the one on Friday is unlikely to help and will probably just make matters worse.

does Apple has design flaw? yes it does.
do other phone companies have the same design flaw? yes they do
so can we call it design flaw? no we can't, because that is something that nobody knows how to fix (yet) and everybody should accept it for now
 
Can you do it, it should be easy

The unfortunate thing is that with the droid, the big issue is with uninteligble garbled transmission (and reception) in poor / low signal areas. This is one thing that can't be demonstrated over the web.

It'd be easy. Run a patchcord from the earphone output of your Moto Droid to the mic input of your video camera, and record the sound output from the Droid along with the video showing that it was a phone call.

Could you do that?

I'm surprised that no one has done that if its as big as an issue as it seems to be.
 
Nokia,RIM et al...

are all 100% correct.

this is an Apple issue, no one else's

dragging other companies in is just pathetic, but typically Apple.
Actually, you're wrong on two out of three counts--they are correct to distance themselves as all companies would for fear that it might affect sales.

But the point is that it is not an Apple issue and no one else's if the issue affects everyone. And when has Apple dragged other companies into things before to make it typical? Can you back up this statement? I'd be interested.
 
The only thing Apple is guilty of is having a CEO who makes indelicate remarks.

Very true. I wish people would realize how special it is that Jobs even responds to users emails. I can't think of another CEO of his stature who would even hand out a personal address. You're talking here about one of the most influencial businessmen of the last twenty/thirty years and he responds to emails from regular users. I like this.
 
Apple "hasn't received significant customer feedbacks” on the “problem” either. That was the whole point of Apple’s discussion: the 4 doesn’t drop calls more than 3GS. In fact it drops less, because it achieves the same drop rate despite cases (which help any phone) not being widely available. So, no, even though I myself believed the hysteria, I was wrong: the iPhone 4 does NOT have reception problems worse than other phones—the dropped-call data is there.

Meanwhile these companies’ own manuals and stickers contradict their claims that THEIR phones can magically send radio waves through the water-logged human body. They should probably lie low and not draw attention to their own phone’s problems.
 
Lawsuit happy americans are funny. Sometimes, there's no need to sue. Looking back in disgust is a proper answer. Why waste money on lawyers for something that is obviously bogus ?

Nokia is from Finland, RIM is from Canada. Neither country have a lawsuit prone culture.

Your conclusions are thus wrong that no lawsuit = Apple didn't distort the truth.

Right thats it....I'm suing you! Oh...no...no...wait....I'm in the UK. All good :)

It is a bit retarded how they sue for simple little "he said she said" crap. I'm shocked that nobody's tried suing AT&T yet for this, blaming their network!

At this point my AppleLove meter has dropped another point. Reason being Steve pointlessly (but very predictably) drawing in others to this. Bad move which I hope he pays for dearly - had enough of his crap now.

(P.S - Not a "troll" - just someone who finds this whole iPhone fiasco rather amusing now!)
 
If everyone was taking a balanced view on this subject their would only need to be about 4 or 5 posts.

1 - Apple defends issue and says it's something that happens to most phones under certain circumstances.
2 - I agree. Apple are correct. Those demonstrations we're of real phones dropping bars.
3 - I don't agree. I believe this is a big problem. Apple's phone is worse.
4 - Well that's fine then. We don't have to agree.
5 - Yes. That's true. I fancy a coffee. Anyone want one?

Forum discussions would be pretty dull though.

This is a tired issue and, in the end, comes down to who you believe. Jobs made certain statements that I believe are true. Those who talk about the RDF and Cult of Mac don't believe anything that Apple or Jobs says so there's little point discussing the issue with them. It'd be like having a court case where all the lawyer ever did was repeat 'You're such a liar! Stop it! I'm telling!!' rather than actually presenting a case.
Well, you're no fun at all. Everybody knows that little kids have the most fun and no responsibilities. Don't you want to have fun? Why do you hate children? Won't somebody think of the children?
 
In my case I am able to replicate your "B" problem. This does not appear to be an attenuation problem and seems more to be a shorted to ground problem. I can make the problem disappear with nothing more than a little tape across the bridge point on the bottom left.

You don't believe that both antennas are being connected to form one unusable, out-of-tune antenna?
 
Teh Haterz: "LOL! Stupid Crapple, makes a phone you can't hold any way you like without losing signal. Steve Jobs sucks!"

Rational Observer: "But look, your BlackBerry does the same thing."

Teh Haterz: "I don't hold it that way."

LagunaSol watching Apple's slanted ads making fun of PC's: "Hahaha, so true!"

LagunaSol watching Asian YouTube movie making fun of Apple: *Cries* "B-b-but that's not fair!"

:rolleyes:
 
the Lawyer at your firm don't know jack....without lawsuits we'd still be having pistol duels at dawn...if you're not an American and the Attorneys you work with don't practice in the states what do they really know? and suits occur all over the world..we just have enough freedom to initiate law suits whenever we want in the US no matter how frivolous they may be
Could have sworn he says he is from Texas.

Amen to the lawyers, what would we be like without them. Its lawyers that give us a chance to be compensated, just look at China what do lawyers there do?

The ratio of lawyers to citizens in the United States is greater than the ratio of doctors to citizens. This is ridiculous. We need lawyers, but to this degree? What we do NOT need are frivolous lawsuits.
–––––––––––––


What's 1,000 lawyers* at the bottom of the ocean?



* or CPAs ... or IRS agents
 
Apple, your phones have bad reception. I get 4 bars anywhere in the world!

Fixed

On a side note: no cellular phone company should EVER insult Nokia. Its exactly like kicking your Grandfather in the balls. Apple just acted like a little child that whole press conference, never owning up to their imperfections and constantly reminding their "customers" (more like Zombies) that they "love them". When any logically-thinking person with a brain saw they were trying to butter-up the mindless masses who compare Apple to Jesus himself.

... absolutely disgusting
 
Well, you're no fun at all. Everybody knows that little kids have the most fun and no responsibilities. Don't you want to have fun? Why do you hate children? Won't somebody think of the children?

Perhaps, instead of Trolls we should call them Teletubbies.
 
LOL, I'll bet you would say that, who wouldn't? Get real man, nobody wants to take the blow for everyone else's mistakes and if you think you'd take one for the team while everyone else is speeding you're delusional.

If you were the CEO of Apple you would do the exact same thing as Steve Jobs did, because it makes sense. It's not like he just got up on stage and made blanket statements that other phone's have the same antenna issues as the iPhone 4, he actually showed videos of the signal attenuation. Does that bother you that he was able to back up his claim? That must be it.
Apple backed up their claims with proof and some of the haters here like you just can't stand it! :p

It's not taking one for the team, it's owning up to your mistakes. While attenuation is an issue for all phones, not all phones were designed so that users could inadvertently short their antennae. Stop attempting to confuse the issue with rhetoric.

Apple screwed up, and is now trying to save face by drawing everyone's attention to a similar issue with other phones that isn't actually the cause of the problem. It's the old bait and switch. Just because some people are buying it doesn't mean everyone else is as gullible.
 
Fixed

On a side note: no cellular phone company should EVER insult Nokia. Its exactly like kicking your Grandfather in the balls. Apple just acted like a little child that whole press conference, never owning up to their imperfections and constantly reminding their "customers" (more like Zombies) that they "love them". When any logically-thinking person with a brain saw they were trying to butter-up the mindless masses who compare Apple to Jesus himself.

... absolutely disgusting

Look up 'troll' in the dictionary and this post is there. Can we find somewhere to keep these guys? It's just getting silly.
 
Nokia,RIM et al...

are all 100% correct.

this is an Apple issue, no one else's

dragging other companies in is just pathetic, but typically Apple.

+1 I agree, pointing the finger at other companies is stupid. Apple should keep them out of it.
 
It's not taking one for the team, it's owning up to your mistakes. While attenuation is an issue for all phones, not all phones were designed so that users could inadvertently short their antennae. Stop attempting to confuse the issue with rhetoric.

Apple screwed up, and is now trying to save face by drawing everyone's attention to a similar issue with other phones that isn't actually the cause of the problem. It's the old bait and switch. Just because some people are buying it doesn't mean everyone else is as gullible.

I've yet to see any credible evidence that the 'shorting' issue is anything more than the speculation of bloggers and forum posters. Do you have a link?
 
I agreed with RIM and Nokia. When I watched the press conference I also found it a bit weak to point fingers to other manufacturers. Look at your own product and how you are going to address the issue without pointing fingers... That is not really relevant as your customers have issues with your product...
Um, no it IS relevant. Look, there are two things going on here:
(1) The fallacy of a double standard: This is when you hold one company to a higher standard than another. If customers were unhappy, and just customers, then I think Apple might have avoided pointing out the other phones. But when the Media got involved, the implication became that ONLY Apple has this problem and has to fix it. That's a double standard. And Apple has every right to say, "If you're going to hold us to this standard, you have to hold others." Otherwise, Apple is going to be punished for something EVERYONE is doing. So if the Media is going to punish a company for this flaw, why just Apple?

(2) Evidence of Innocence: Now this is where it gets really important. Please, try to understand this point. If Apple DEMONSTRATES that other phones have this problem, then it makes its point that this design flaw can't be avoided. Meaning there is no phone yet made that has conquered this issue. That's important. If none of the other phones had this problem, it would indicate that Apple had bad or sloppy engineers, designers, or had, indeed, picked form over function (as accused). By showing that the other phones have this issue, Apple defends--and presumably proves--it's assertion that this issue can't be entirely avoided--yet. All cellphones will have this problem to a greater or lesser extent.

Thus, once again, they weren't negligent. Keep in mind, they're being compared to BP and Toyota--who WERE negligent.

I'm kinda amazed at people bitching about Apple showing the other phones, by the way. What I'm getting is that none of you wanted Apple to present evidence in its defense. You just wanted Apple to "man up!" and...What? Say, "We made the worst phone ever. Bring it back. We'll give you all Blackberries and close our doors forever in shame and failure...." :confused:

Pointing out the other companies is EVIDENCE that this is a flaw that all phones have. Now what *may* be a mistake on Apple's part, and Jobs pointed it out, was where they put the break can be easily found and touched to make it happen. And they put the antenna on the outside which also makes it easier. BUT Jobs also pointed out why they did this. It wasn't out of being sloppy or negligence or even to make it pretty. It was so the phone could get better reception in weaker spots. And users claim that the phone does do that! So, whether it is a worse problem on Apple's phone than others depends. Apple argues that the numbers so far seem to indicate that it isn't worse than other phones--but it might be easier to cause. However, that easier element also gives users an advantage.

If you're being accused of a crime, you have every right to defend yourself and present any evidence there is of innocence. This was why those demonstrations of other phones were presented. But Apple did say they're sorry. And you can get a refund if you're unhappy with the phone. So. What more do you want from them? Seriously. What could they say that would satisfy you? "Humility" you say? So, "We're not perfect. We make mistakes. We want our customers happy...." isn't humble enough? Why not? And would you buy a product from any company that said, "To be honest and humble, our products have problems. Let me give you a list of all that's not perfect...." :p
 
Perhaps, instead of Trolls we should call them Teletubbies.
I wouldn't call my worst enemy a teletubby. But since the internet provides ironclad anonymity, I applaud your innovative thinking. But instead, people who overly emotionalize and present others' arguments in as extreme a light as possible, I will continue to think of as unintentional trolls. Those who attempt to remain happy and understand each other and get along are the teletubbies.

But seriously, it seems Apple has a problem, maybe it's a bigger deal than most other companies' hardware, but most have it to some extent. I even have it on my non-smartphone by Samsung. Whether the way Jobs is handling this is good (from a PR standpoint) remains to be seen. I wouldn't bet against Steve Jobs in the long run. Antenna design is hard. I predict a new antenna design in iPhone 5.
 
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