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'Antennagate' Reactions: RIM, Nokia, Taiwanese Animation

kas23 said:
But, I really don't care about these other phones. I don't own any of them. I have an iPhone 4 and want it to work just as well as (and even better!) than my previous iPhone 3G. Jobs pointing out other phone problems was really catty. It's akin to being pulled over by a cop for speeding and trying to get out of it by saying "but officer, everyone else was speeding too!".
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Well, you kind of make a good point. But honestly, if you were pulled over for speeding while doing the exact same speed as everyone else, wouldn't you wonder why? What if you were pulled over for speeding constantly while doing the same speed as everyone else, wouldn't you point it out? Wouldn't you want to be treated the same as everyone else? I doubt you'd keep quiet.

This was not a press conference about the technical issue that people are talking about. It was about context. The press were focusing on the iPhone 4 as if this was a new thing. They were doing it to such an extent that people were talking about a recall for a product that is not even faulty let alone dangerous! Share prices were falling because of it.

This story went crazy. Totally over the top crazy. Apple needed to put it's side of things over. But what would be the point them saying it was a problem for smartphones in general if they couldn't or wouldn't demonstrate this? It wouldn't have had the impact needed. They demonstrated their point without bashing anyone. They were fair and open about what they think the issue is and left it at that. Sound move.
 
Zunjine said:
Well, you kind of make a good point. But honestly, if you were pulled over for speeding while doing the exact same speed as everyone else, wouldn't you wonder why? What if you were pulled over for speeding constantly while doing the same speed as everyone else, wouldn't you point it out? Wouldn't you want to be treated the same as everyone else? I doubt you'd keep quiet.

This was not a press conference about the technical issue that people are talking about. It was about context. The press were focusing on the iPhone 4 as if this was a new thing. They were doing it to such an extent that people were talking about a recall for a product that is not even faulty let alone dangerous! Share prices were falling because of it.

This story went crazy. Totally over the top crazy. Apple needed to put it's side of things over. But what would be the point them saying it was a problem for smartphones in general if they couldn't or wouldn't demonstrate this? It wouldn't have had the impact needed. They demonstrated their point without bashing anyone. They were fair and open about what they think the issue is and left it at that. Sound move.
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Steve Jobs DISTORTED the context. The is an apple issue. Tell me what other cell phone drops signal as much as the iphone 4 just by touching a point on the phone with a finger tip? I've NEVER seen another cell phone do that.
 
LagunaSol said:
Teh Haterz: "LOL! Stupid Crapple, makes a phone you can't hold any way you like without losing signal. Steve Jobs sucks!"

Rational Observer: "But look, your BlackBerry does the same thing."

Teh Haterz: "I don't hold it that way."
Click to expand...

Making "funny" comments with a "geeky" name attached so as to belittle the opinion + trying to make everyone in agreement with your biased opinion sound more intelligent = Fanboy.

The other phones Apple demonstrated, to the best of my knowledge, when held "normally" - and this is the main point here - normally, do not have major signal issues. Every fanboy forgets this about the iPhone issue - no-one's contorting themselves to recreate the problem, just trying to use the phone the same way they used their previous iPhones.

If everyone opposed to Apple's/Fanboys point of view is a "hater" then why did we spend so much on the iPhone? I'm sure less than 0.55% of people on forums are actually haters or indeed employed by anyone to spread malicious rumours - and if I'm quoting figures like that it must be fact right?
 
ten-oak-druid said:
RIM can get away with denying the truth because their phones are aren't a cultural icon. When everyone talks about your product, its under the microscope.
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Apple needs to stop crying and its fans need to stop crying on Apple's behalf. I'm up to my neck in in these crocodile tears already, where are the lifeboats?

Apple wanted to make it big, they dreamed of one day making it out of the little niche cave and becoming one of the big players. Well now they are one of the big players, congratulations. But that also means they don't get to play David vs. Goliath anymore. Now they are Goliath and they need to grow the **** up and accept that no company in that position can expect to escape being ambushed from all sides, slandered, ridiculed and hated. There will be FUD and bandwagons and snowballs and scrutiny, of the same kind that Microsoft has been a target of for all these years (and Apple was the principal mudslinger). Get used to it, this is what Apple's future will look like unless they shrink to become a niche player again. If you can't take the heat, you know where the kitchen door is...
 
I really want to know which one is true:

A.) Does the iPhone's reception level decrease when you cover the antenna with your hand, letting less radio waves through, or

B.) Does the reception decline when you connect the two pieces of metal on either side of the black stripe on the bottom left corner, causing the two antennas to interfere with each other?

The two are not the same thing, because "A" is what happens with every phone, and "B" seems to be what happens with the iPhone, however, I'm not sure about this.
 
Zunjine said:
Well, you kind of make a good point. But honestly, if you were pulled over for speeding while doing the exact same speed as everyone else, wouldn't you wonder why? What if you were pulled over for speeding constantly while doing the same speed as everyone else, wouldn't you point it out? Wouldn't you want to be treated the same as everyone else? I doubt you'd keep quiet.

This was not a press conference about the technical issue that people are talking about. It was about context. The press were focusing on the iPhone 4 as if this was a new thing. They were doing it to such an extent that people were talking about a recall for a product that is not even faulty let alone dangerous! Share prices were falling because of it.

This story went crazy. Totally over the top crazy. Apple needed to put it's side of things over. But what would be the point them saying it was a problem for smartphones in general if they couldn't or wouldn't demonstrate this? It wouldn't have had the impact needed. They demonstrated their point without bashing anyone. They were fair and open about what they think the issue is and left it at that. Sound move.
Click to expand...

It is the same with the Foxconn suicide meme. Apparently it is an Apple problem, despite the fact that Foxconn employs nearly half a million people and makes stuff for practically every major manufacturer in the world.
 
baryon said:
I really want to know which one is true:

A.) Does the iPhone's reception level decrease when you cover the antenna with your hand, letting less radio waves through, or

B.) Does the reception decline when you connect the two pieces of metal on either side of the black stripe on the bottom left corner, causing the two antennas to interfere with each other?

The two are not the same thing, because "A" is what happens with every phone, and "B" seems to be what happens with the iPhone, however, I'm not sure about this.
Click to expand...

You are 100% correct. You can drop the iPhone 4 signal to nothing by touching one small area with a fingertip and the phone on a desk - not the same as the attenuation caused by encasing the phone in your hands. Another point missed by many as Steve wafted his hand slowly sideways and said "these aren't the flaws you're looking for..."
 
kas23 said:
Jobs pointing out other phone problems was really catty. It's akin to being pulled over by a cop for speeding and trying to get out of it by saying "but officer, everyone else was speeding too!".
Click to expand...

Kids, this is an example of a false analogy.

Every driver with a fully functioning automobile is CAPABLE of driving the speed limit (some Toyotas possibly excepted), but Apple is asserting that NO mobile phone can eliminate antenna interference/signal degradation issues entirely. So, pointing out that all other smartphones have the same issue is akin to saying that if you let go of your iPhone while holding it 4 feet above the ground, it will drop, and ALL phones are affected by this "gravity" thing.

Please vet your arguments for logical flaws, people.
 
my sister in law just got her husband's iphone 3G because he just got a new iphone, and she's like "I love this phone. i wish it didn't have this weird calling problem. I have had 4 calls cut off this week while i was sitting in a chair. I understand going through a dead zone in a car, but I had 4 bars and the call dropped. two times it was with a landline, so i know it was me!"

She's used to some older tmobile smartphone. she thought it was AT&T, and then I pulled out my moto SLVR, which is on AT&T, and I told her I haven't had a dropped call in something like 6 months. Which is true.

iphone users who want to believe that every phone has problems like this are just trying to make themselves feel better about their decision. I would love to have a 3G-capable ipod touch in the new design and a pay-as-you-go ipad-style plan, but I will not let Apple's phone be my "real" phone, because if it sucks at making phone calls, why bother?
 
Phokus said:
Steve Jobs DISTORTED the context. The is an apple issue. Tell me what other cell phone drops signal as much as the iphone 4 just by touching a point on the phone with a finger tip? I've NEVER seen another cell phone do that.
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I was responding to the point that this is not a new or exclusive issue. Is the iPhone 4 worse than any other phone in this regard? I don't know and, if you're honest, you don't know either. Jobs merely pointed out that this isn't a iPhone 4 only thing.

The fact that people are not returning the phone, that the call-drop rates are similar to the 3GS and that they are getting very few calls to customer care despite the massive publicity generated by this issue would suggest that the problem is not as bad as people are making out. You can call any of these points in to question but I've yet to see a convincing argument against them.

I tend to think that the fact that people know where the supposed weak spot is means they are more likely to notice the 'one spot' you can touch on the phone to replicate the issue. There may be a similar spot on other phones but being that people don't know where it is they are less likely to be aware of it. They see the drop in signal but need to cover a big patch to make it happen because they don't know which part they are touching which makes the signal drop. It's a bit like pressing a lot of buttons with your fist and activating the machine; only one button actually did anything but you have no idea which one. That's just my pet theory though.

Also please note that all things in design are trade-offs. Apple made their phone smaller and put in a larger battery by changing the design in certain ways. Part of this was by removing some of the insulation around the edges and putting the antenna on the outside. You could make a phone that had perfect signal and a 5000 hour battery life if you didn't mind it being the size of a loaf of bread. I get a great signal in places where my 3GS couldn't get one. I also notice a marked degree of signal decrease under certain circumstances when I hold the phone a certain way. It's a trade off that I'm happy with.
 
archipellago said:
Nokia,RIM et al...

are all 100% correct.

this is an Apple issue, no one else's

dragging other companies in is just pathetic, but typically Apple.
Click to expand...

And Update: The Wall Street Journal reports that HTC and Samsung, two of Apple's other targets at its press conference, have also responded regarding the situation.
"The reception problems are certainly not common among smartphones," HTC chief financial officer Hui-Meng Cheng said. "They (Apple) apparently didn't give operators enough time to test the phone."

That's why I can pick up my HTC phone and the number of bars will decrease as well as the signal strength reported in the Status (from 25 asu to 6 asu). But it also varies over time, whether it is being held or sitting on my desk, indicating that the conditions for signal reception / transmission are changing over time.
 
scoobydoo99 said:
Kids, this is an example of a false analogy.

Every driver with a fully functioning automobile is CAPABLE of driving the speed limit (some Toyotas possibly excepted), but Apple is asserting that NO mobile phone can eliminate antenna interference/signal degradation issues entirely. So, pointing out that all other smartphones have the same issue is akin to saying that if you let go of your iPhone while holding it 4 feet above the ground, it will drop, and ALL phones are affected by this "gravity" thing.

Please vet your arguments for logical flaws, people.
Click to expand...

your analogy is also unbalanced. you reversed the causality. the speeding analogy is actually closer to a valid analogy, although it needed some specific changes to make it more congruent. For example, if you were going 100mph, and "everyone else" was going 75, and the speed limit was 70 mph, then it would be appropriate in that case.

you are getting hung up on the speed limit, but because the speed limit is a technical upward bounds on "acceptable behavior" and not the equivalent of 100% signal, you are really talking about deviating from an ideal. If you were going 35 in a 70, you'd also get pulled over.

His analogy isn't perfect, but, rather accidentally, it's better than yours.
 
so I see a few things interesting here. Yes, all phones will lose signal. Sometimes that signal is caused by weak signal areas and sometimes it is caused by physical contact. Sometimes both. Pretty straight forward.

So the argument of "all phones exhibit the same behavior" is true, but the question is to what degree? I can get my iP4 to 1 bar from 3 by touching the antenna a certain way. However, call quality doesn't suffer until I have NO signal (by moving to a VERY WEAK signal area). Other phones I have owned like a palm pixie on verizon, droid on verizon, iphone 3g on ATT show the same signal amount in the same spots as my iP4, but call quality gets really garbled by touching different areas of the handsets or moving to weaker signal areas. In fact, CALL QUALITY drops off drastically when signal strength drops. This behavior DOES NOT happen on my iP4. I go from clear call at any signal strength to drop call when there is NO bars.

So, in my experience, iP4 signal behavior is actually better than the other handsets my family owns, even tho it does have the antenna issues that have been described.

So the other thing I see here is that Nokia, HTC, BB, etc are saying that their antennas are designed better and don't suffer AS MUCH as the iP4. Ok. Design is different. And yes, you can touch the iP4 in one spot ON THE ANTENNA to get the described issue to appear. So what happens when you touch THE ANTENNA on the other handsets? Go ahead, crack them open and see what happens.... Drop calls, dropped signal, i'm sure. So is their antenna design BETTER than the iP4? No. They will do the same thing as the iP4 when you touch the antenna. Actually, most will suffer to a larger degree if you touch the exposed antenna directly.

So this leads me to the point that the iP4 antenna is truly designed BETTER than the other manufacturers, allowing direct contact to the antenna with less signal degradation.

So why all the hoopla? RIM, HTC, Motorola, Nokia etc built their phones with a pre-installed plastic case.

Hmmm. That is why the antenna can not be touched directly. Do you like those pre-installed plastic and rubber coated cheap phone cases? if not, put your phone in yet ANOTHER case to meet your tastes.

The iP4 is not encased in a plastic shroud out of the factory, allowing direct contact with the antenna, and you can choose the case that best fits you to keep you from contacting the antenna directly. No need for 2 cases. One should do just fine. In fact Apple is going to provide one for you.

If you are like me and don't have dropped calls on the iP4 without a case, keep on truckin' without a case. If you need one, use one.

Now -- the other mfgrs are actually confirming through their statements that they do experience issues, but not to the same degree as Apple, or stopping short of saying just that. I believe they are just worried that they will now get a backlash of complaints from customers that are now LOOKING for issues. When you look for issues, you will find them. Every time.
 
benpatient said:
your analogy is also unbalanced. you reversed the causality. the speeding analogy is actually closer to a valid analogy, although it needed some specific changes to make it more congruent. For example, if you were going 100mph, and "everyone else" was going 75, and the speed limit was 70 mph, then it would be appropriate in that case.

you are getting hung up on the speed limit, but because the speed limit is a technical upward bounds on "acceptable behavior" and not the equivalent of 100% signal, you are really talking about deviating from an ideal. If you were going 35 in a 70, you'd also get pulled over.

His analogy isn't perfect, but, rather accidentally, it's better than yours.
Click to expand...

I guess he didn’t vet his argument for logical flaws.
 
baryon said:
I really want to know which one is true:

B.) Does the reception decline when you connect the two pieces of metal on either side of the black stripe on the bottom left corner, causing the two antennas to interfere with each other?

The two are not the same thing, because "A" is what happens with every phone, and "B" seems to be what happens with the iPhone, however, I'm not sure about this.
Click to expand...

In my case I am able to replicate your "B" problem. This does not appear to be an attenuation problem and seems more to be a shorted to ground problem. I can make the problem disappear with nothing more than a little tape across the bridge point on the bottom left.
 
That was the funniest video i've seen in a long time. Does anyone know if it's been translated or subtitled in English?
 
benpatient said:
your analogy is also unbalanced. you reversed the causality. the speeding analogy is actually closer to a valid analogy, although it needed some specific changes to make it more congruent. For example, if you were going 100mph, and "everyone else" was going 75, and the speed limit was 70 mph, then it would be appropriate in that case.

you are getting hung up on the speed limit, but because the speed limit is a technical upward bounds on "acceptable behavior" and not the equivalent of 100% signal, you are really talking about deviating from an ideal. If you were going 35 in a 70, you'd also get pulled over.

His analogy isn't perfect, but, rather accidentally, it's better than yours.
Click to expand...

Your analysis is fairly convoluted, but the fact is, I make no assumptions or claims about suggested or implied speed limits. Nor do I make any representation as to the extent of purported signal loss or the validity of Apple's claims. The determining factor here in the success or failure of the analogy is the physical capability to perform to a certain specification. In his original analogy, the driver was clearly CAPABLE of performing to the specification, which would be 100% compliance with the applicable law. In Apple's case, they claim that it is SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for ANY member of the class (i.e. - Smartphone) to perform to the specification, which would be 100% immunity to signal degradation/dropped calls as a result of physical blocking/touching by human appendage. In my analogy, I intentionally implied that ALL members of the class are subject to gravity, and that therefore my analogy was closer to Apple's intent. I stand by the comparison.
 
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