Look up 'troll' in the dictionary and this post is there. Can we find somewhere to keep these guys? It's just getting silly.

Look up 'troll' in the dictionary and this post is there. Can we find somewhere to keep these guys? It's just getting silly.
Um, no it IS relevant. Look, there are two things going on here:
(1) The fallacy of a double standard: This is when you hold one company to a higher standard than another. If customers were unhappy, and just customers, then I think Apple might have avoided pointing out the other phones. But when the Media got involved, the implication became that ONLY Apple has this problem and has to fix it. That's a double standard. And Apple has every right to say, "If you're going to hold us to this standard, you have to hold others." Otherwise, Apple is going to be punished for something EVERYONE is doing. So if the Media is going to punish a company for this flaw, why just Apple?
(2) Evidence of Innocence: Now this is where it gets really important. Please, try to understand this point. If Apple DEMONSTRATES that other phones have this problem, then it makes its point that this design flaw can't be avoided. Meaning there is no phone yet made that has conquered this issue. That's important. If none of the other phones had this problem, it would indicate that Apple had bad or sloppy engineers, designers, or had, indeed, picked form over function (as accused). By showing that the other phones have this issue, Apple defends--and presumably proves--it's assertion that this issue can't be entirely avoided--yet. All cellphones will have this problem to a greater or lesser extent.
Thus, once again, they weren't negligent. Keep in mind, they're being compared to BP and Toyota--who WERE negligent.
I'm kinda amazed at people bitching about Apple showing the other phones, by the way. What I'm getting is that none of you wanted Apple to present evidence in its defense. You just wanted Apple to "man up!" and...What? Say, "We made the worst phone ever. Bring it back. We'll give you all Blackberries and close our doors forever in shame and failure...."
Pointing out the other companies is EVIDENCE that this is a flaw that all phones have. Now what *may* be a mistake on Apple's part, and Jobs pointed it out, was where they put the break can be easily found and touched to make it happen. And they put the antenna on the outside which also makes it easier. BUT Jobs also pointed out why they did this. It wasn't out of being sloppy or negligence or even to make it pretty. It was so the phone could get better reception in weaker spots. And users claim that the phone does do that! So, whether it is a worse problem on Apple's phone than others depends. Apple argues that the numbers so far seem to indicate that it isn't worse than other phones--but it might be easier to cause. However, that easier element also gives users an advantage.
If you're being accused of a crime, you have every right to defend yourself and present any evidence there is of innocence. This was why those demonstrations of other phones were presented. But Apple did say they're sorry. And you can get a refund if you're unhappy with the phone. So. What more do you want from them? Seriously. What could they say that would satisfy you? "Humility" you say? So, "We're not perfect. We make mistakes. We want our customers happy...." isn't humble enough? Why not? And would you buy a product from any company that said, "To be honest and humble, our products have problems. Let me give you a list of all that's not perfect...."![]()
Toss one of those into Apple's wireless testing facility.
Are you really going to accept a YouTube video as gospel?
Well, I've never had an iPhone so I can't comment on its antenna. However, my blackberry WILL drop calls depending on how you hold it, and my previous nokia phone would do the same thing. Hmm....
Is it just me, or are these other companies starting to feel the pressure?
+1 I agree, pointing the finger at other companies is stupid. Apple should keep them out of it.
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Wtf @ video?
Nokia,RIM et al...
are all 100% correct.
this is an Apple issue, no one else's
dragging other companies in is just pathetic, but typically Apple.
I'm with RIM and Noikia on this one, it was a cheap shot to drag them in and neither company has signal problems like the iPhone. iPhones have always been a bit lacking in the actual phone department. What would have been interesting would be comparing the number of dropped calls between the iPhone 4 and these phones, rather than the 3GS.
Can we all just get free bumpers
{QUOTE davesw ]
Videos: death grip on EVO, Droid Incredible, Nexus One, Galaxy 1, G1, etc.
* http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-kFc..._with_droid_x/
* Samsung I9000 Galaxy S: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROTHrTR92k
* HTC Evo Signal Attenuation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pj2YBYTbag
* Samsung Galaxy 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
* Samsung Galaxy 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPCQdYtPihg
* Droid Incredible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDE941PzQk
* Droid Incredible (With Network Extender in Room): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpEQH...eature=related
* Nexus One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEIA_lMwqJA
* Nexus One vs. iPhone (start at 1:29): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvMoV4_C4aA
* http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-kFc..._with_droid_x/
* Nexus One: http://posterous.com/getfile/files.p...n_-_iPhone.m4v
* Nexus One (after Google's update to correct): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2g5J4qPp54
* Nexus One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deCkjeHYT-g
* Android G1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CDaxhjUs9M
* "Major signal degradation when Nexus One is picked up" (N1 Thread on On this Problem): http://www.google.com/support/forum/...9184c33e&hl=en
Kids, this is an example of a false analogy.
Every driver with a fully functioning automobile is CAPABLE of driving the speed limit (some Toyotas possibly excepted), but Apple is asserting that NO mobile phone can eliminate antenna interference/signal degradation issues entirely. So, pointing out that all other smartphones have the same issue is akin to saying that if you let go of your iPhone while holding it 4 feet above the ground, it will drop, and ALL phones are affected by this "gravity" thing.
Please vet your arguments for logical flaws, people.
LOL, I'll bet you would say that, who wouldn't? Get real man, nobody wants to take the blow for everyone else's mistakes and if you think you'd take one for the team while everyone else is speeding you're delusional.
Apple backed up their claims with proof and some of the haters here like you just can't stand it!![]()
Um, no it IS relevant. Look, there are two things going on here:
(1) The fallacy of a double standard: This is when you hold one company to a higher standard than another. If customers were unhappy, and just customers, then I think Apple might have avoided pointing out the other phones. But when the Media got involved, the implication became that ONLY Apple has this problem and has to fix it. That's a double standard. And Apple has every right to say, "If you're going to hold us to this standard, you have to hold others." Otherwise, Apple is going to be punished for something EVERYONE is doing. So if the Media is going to punish a company for this flaw, why just Apple?
(2) Evidence of Innocence: Now this is where it gets really important. Please, try to understand this point. If Apple DEMONSTRATES that other phones have this problem, then it makes its point that this design flaw can't be avoided. Meaning there is no phone yet made that has conquered this issue. That's important. If none of the other phones had this problem, it would indicate that Apple had bad or sloppy engineers, designers, or had, indeed, picked form over function (as accused). By showing that the other phones have this issue, Apple defends--and presumably proves--it's assertion that this issue can't be entirely avoided--yet. All cellphones will have this problem to a greater or lesser extent.
Thus, once again, they weren't negligent. Keep in mind, they're being compared to BP and Toyota--who WERE negligent.
I'm kinda amazed at people bitching about Apple showing the other phones, by the way. What I'm getting is that none of you wanted Apple to present evidence in its defense. You just wanted Apple to "man up!" and...What? Say, "We made the worst phone ever. Bring it back. We'll give you all Blackberries and close our doors forever in shame and failure...."
Pointing out the other companies is EVIDENCE that this is a flaw that all phones have. Now what *may* be a mistake on Apple's part, and Jobs pointed it out, was where they put the break can be easily found and touched to make it happen. And they put the antenna on the outside which also makes it easier. BUT Jobs also pointed out why they did this. It wasn't out of being sloppy or negligence or even to make it pretty. It was so the phone could get better reception in weaker spots. And users claim that the phone does do that! So, whether it is a worse problem on Apple's phone than others depends. Apple argues that the numbers so far seem to indicate that it isn't worse than other phones--but it might be easier to cause. However, that easier element also gives users an advantage.
If you're being accused of a crime, you have every right to defend yourself and present any evidence there is of innocence. This was why those demonstrations of other phones were presented. But Apple did say they're sorry. And you can get a refund if you're unhappy with the phone. So. What more do you want from them? Seriously. What could they say that would satisfy you? "Humility" you say? So, "We're not perfect. We make mistakes. We want our customers happy...." isn't humble enough? Why not? And would you buy a product from any company that said, "To be honest and humble, our products have problems. Let me give you a list of all that's not perfect...."![]()
...also they all have warnings in their manuals, you can find stickers telling you not to hold the phones covering the antenna, etc. etc. They all sit here and release their statements but their phones all will do the same thing!![]()
I still wanna know WHY they don't just put a clear coating of something around the band to cut conductivity! Why in the WORLD didn't anyone ask them that at the press conference???![]()
It's not taking one for the team, it's owning up to your mistakes. While attenuation is an issue for all phones, not all phones were designed so that users could inadvertently short their antennae. Stop attempting to confuse the issue with rhetoric.
Apple screwed up, and is now trying to save face by drawing everyone's attention to a similar issue with other phones that isn't actually the cause of the problem. It's the old bait and switch. Just because some people are buying it doesn't mean everyone else is as gullible.
Well, I guess what you say is LAW and anyone else's opinion is unimportant to you. Why don't you stop hating and acting pissed off that Apple was able to prove facts that they stated. They have every right to show competitor's phones with the same problem. The problem is those other phones and their manufacturers don't have an iconic culture as Apple and their products so they are generally more high profile.
This is not about owning up to anything they've done wrong, they are proving facts which they did.
Hope for your sake you never become a victim of circumstance and want to prove your way clear but the judge and jury have you convicted before proving your case.![]()
Then, why in the world did Apple put the antenna in such a dumb spot - right where people wrap the hands around their phones? I know you can't answer that, but it makes you wonder.
Lawsuit happy americans are funny. Sometimes, there's no need to sue. Looking back in disgust is a proper answer. Why waste money on lawyers for something that is obviously bogus ?
Nokia is from Finland, RIM is from Canada. Neither country have a lawsuit prone culture.
Your conclusions are thus wrong that no lawsuit = Apple didn't distort the truth.
I'm definitely not an antenna expert, but from what I'm reading, it was pretty dumb move to put the antenna on the exterior
Then, why in the world did Apple put the antenna in such a dumb spot - right where people wrap the hands around their phones? I know you can't answer that, but it makes you wonder..