'Antennagate' Reactions: RIM, Nokia, Taiwanese Animation

[Max(IT)]

You don't believe that both antennas are being connected to form one unusable, out-of-tune antenna?

Seriously, do you think is such an hard thing to avoid touching that particular spot ?
The only REAL defect in that antenna design is that spot, where you can bridge the two antennas.

Yeah, but bashing other companies isn't good practice.. Putting that kind of information out there about other companies is not going to help their sales right?

That is where I think Apple went wrong. Steve should have just said that "Other" phones have similar issues, instead of showing the model and make.. Its not like other phone companies point out Apple Iphones' flaws..

For God sake, they DIDN'T ! Jobs said "those are perfect good phones ...." speaking about the Htc, the Rim and the Samsung.
Apple just showed how the issue is related to all phones, without bashing anyone ....

 

[AidenShaw]

The only REAL defect in that antenna design is that spot, where you can bridge the two antennas.

Finally, you agree with all of the people who are saying that being able to kill the signal by touching one spot is a REAL defect.

Now to work on the other 999 people saying that there is no defect.

 

[shambo]

Lot of newbies lately, uh ?

Probably just a lot of newly enraged consumers wanting to voice their ire and frustrations at the arrogance of Jobs and Apples smoke and mirrors PR over a failed telecommunication device that doesn't telecommunicate.

The only REAL defect in that antenna design is that spot, where you can bridge the two antennas.

So you admit there is a defect and it's very much REAL?


We're getting there folks.

 

[ten-oak-druid]

Probably just a lot of newly enraged consumers wanting to voice their ire and frustrations at the arrogance of Jobs and Apples smoke and mirrors PR over a failed telecommunication device that doesn't telecommunicate.



So you admit there is a defect and it's very much REAL?


We're getting there folks.

Nope.

Mostly a bunch of people with no iphone, wanting to mess around on a message board.

 

[-aggie-]

Finally, you agree with all of the people who are saying that being able to kill the signal by touching one spot is a REAL defect.

Now to work on the other 999 people saying that there is no defect.

Or to make it easier, you could convince the 100 or so who have issues to return their phones.

 

[Max(IT)]

I didn't see apple proving that other phones can be disabled by a touch of a finger. All I saw was apple showing other phones can have the number of bars reduced by wrapping a hand around the entire antenna.

Can you direct me to the point I must have missed on the video?

Ridiculous ...
It is "normal grip" when it could drops bars on an iPhone, but suddenly became "death grip", or "wrapping a hand around the entire antenna" when it could drops bars on every other phone ?
All of you bashers are incredible ...

Okay, so what rebuttal would you throw to me if I showed you a video of at least one of those same phones on Apple's website attenuate the signal with just a fingertip vs the deathgrip? Would you accept that or are you just another RIM fanboy trying to cover up the competitions imperfections?

Note that NO ONE commented about the videos about almost every smartphone dropping bars ...

Finally, you agree with all of the people who are saying that being able to kill the signal by touching one spot is a REAL defect.

Now to work on the other 999 people saying that there is no defect.

It is a weak spot. I never denied that.
But it is NOT a big issue worthing all this mess.
There are Samsung phones on the market with a stick reporting "avoid touching this area during calls", and NO ONE even mentioned that.

Probably just a lot of newly enraged consumers wanting to voice their ire and frustrations at the arrogance of Jobs and Apples smoke and mirrors PR over a failed telecommunication device that doesn't telecommunicate.

No. They are just apple bashers, like you ...

 

[jsep]

Finally, you agree with all of the people who are saying that being able to kill the signal by touching one spot is a REAL defect.

Now to work on the other 999 people saying that there is no defect.

I have the iPhone 4. I'm in a good reception area (always 4 to 5 bars). If I touch the antenna the way everyone is telling me to, I lose 1 bar at the most and it's not every time. If I bear hug grip my phone, gripping the entire outside area with my hand, then yes, I lose all bars.

Just touching that one spot isn't doing it for me though. It's not a defect for me.

 

[zacman]

Two Nokia here, an N97 and a 5230. Both with 2-3 bars signal loss, and you don't really need to "death grip": a normal grip in the lower half is enough.

Nokia has 7 bars for full signal and you get 7 bars at around -83dB. You only get 4 bars at -91db. While you get 1 bar at -110 to -125dB (depending on the phone). So a 2-3 bars signal loss means that you lost around 5 to 7dB only.

On the other hand the iPhone loses 20dB when you touch it which is around 6 times worse (dB are logarithmic).

 

[bobob]

Well, I think the PR problem is Apple's but I think the technical problem is everyone's. Not one of them have said what Steve Jobs said is actually false. If Steve had lied they would have sued, no question. Nokia's response even confirms what he said. So, Nobody thinks he's lying. And if, from that, we can assume what he said is true, why are people still saying it's an iPhone 4 problem. Since this 'story' broke I have tried every phone that comes into my home (I have a poor reception where I live) and they all do this to some extent. I don't have an iPhone 4 but I'm planning on getting one in the very near future. This is a non issue for me. I think the people still moaning about this are just riding the backlash bandwagon. I'm not just being a fanboy. If RIM, Nokia had come out and said 'Steve lied and is wrong' I wouldn't have wrote the above and would be questioning the validity of Steve's words (even though my own tiny experiment seems to indicate that all phones do this). But I think Apple's competitors are basically saying 'We have been in the business a lot longer than Apple, have spent millions on antenna R&D and we still have this problem. Please Apple, keep this information to yourself as it is your product that has brought it to the fore'. Please let me know if I've missed anything as I'm confused by peoples response to this other than backlash fever.

Excellent post!


(You must be one of MacRumors' oldest "newbies" with 24 posts in 6 years!)

 

[AidenShaw]

Or to make it easier, you could convince the 100 or so who have issues to return their phones.

...and quietly accept the lies generated by the Apple Propaganda Program? (There's an APP for that!)

It's disturbing that "Apple's core values" include both standing up on stage and saying bald-faced lies about the Iphone 4 and its competion, and getting police to make an illegal raid on a reporter's home because "letting it slide" would be against the "core values".

Every day, every bit of news on this story erodes Apple's brand. Time to send the turtle-necked one to pasture and get a CEO who will stand up, speak honestly, and accept that the Iphone 4 is defective.

Then, offer the redesigned phone to any Iphone 4 buyer who wants one, without a time limit. After all, only the "100 or so who have issues" will take Apple up on the offer.

 

[Droid13]

Against my better judgement, I wade into this quagmire. Right, my take, trying to keep things calm, fair and focussed:

1) That video is mostly awesome. Mostly.

2) According to various sources, iPhone 4 appears to have a design flaw that for an unknown proportion of users interferes with regular, everyday use. Nevertheless, this issue appears to has been overblown by the media.

3) The issue is recognised in other phones, but does not appear to interfere with regular, everyday use as these phones are designed differently.

4) Using a bumper more or less solves the problem.

5) Dragging other manufacturers into it lacks class. Them not suing only means them not suing - nothing more or less.

6) To decide if the iPhone 4 is worth buying or will cause a problem, people should field test one and see if their usage pattern will be affected by the*flaw.

Does this post present an accurate, fair and level-headed take?

 

[jsep]

and accept that the Iphone 4 is defective.

Mine's not defective. My friends have it too. Those aren't defective either.

 

[-aggie-]

Mine's not defective. My friends have it too. Those aren't defective either.

You need to understand, even if your phone works for everything you do and anywhere you are (like most of us), your phone is defective in their eyes.

Understand?

 

[Treefu]

Ridiculous ...

...

All of you bashers are incredible ...

...

But it is NOT a big issue worthing all this mess.

...

No. They are just apple bashers, like you ...

I can understand users who have a problem coming here venting their frustration over a rather stupid design decision and seeking others that are in similar situation.

I can also understand people like me who wants to know the extents and/or why Apple of all could've slipped up like this.


Then there is you (and people like you)...

You complain about people complaining about a product that isn't working for them but is working for you. If the iPhone 4 works that good for you why do you repeatedly go on and on, only to come down on those with legitimate complaints? In short, you criticize people for very thing you're practicing yourself!

If you stop being so juvenile you will cut the complaints by half if you cease doing this over and over.

Does that make sense?

Bash on...

 

[cmaier]

Ridiculous ...
It is "normal grip" when it could drops bars on an iPhone, but suddenly became "death grip", or "wrapping a hand around the entire antenna" when it could drops bars on every other phone ?
All of you bashers are incredible ...


Note that NO ONE commented about the videos about almost every s

i am not a basher. i am trying to differentiate the one finger in one spot on the i4 vs. what is shown in the videos, which is the phone firmly in hand, with the palm or fingers always covering the part that apple, itself, says is the antenna location.

What the videos show re: other phones may very well be the normal way to hold those phones. I don't dispute that. But it doesn't change the fact that touching the iphone in one single location with one finger results in signal loss, and that Apple has not shown that happen with ANY other phone.

And my point re: that is simply that hldan insists that Apple HAS shown that, and i am still waiting for him to identify where that proof is.

 

[Max(IT)]

Nokia has 7 bars for full signal and you get 7 bars at around -83dB. You only get 4 bars at -91db. While you get 1 bar at -110 to -125dB (depending on the phone). So a 2-3 bars signal loss means that you lost around 5 to 7dB only.

On the other hand the iPhone loses 20dB when you touch it which is around 6 times worse (dB are logarithmic).

The bar scale is not linear (not every bar equals to the same amount of dB), so your post if flawed in it's basis ...

BTW iPhone 4's antenna surely is more affected by attenuation, being external, but it compensate with a better signal to noise ratio (and you can browse and call with a single bar at -121 dB where the N97 can't do almost nothing).

To summarize, if you just avoid touching the weak spot, you have a much better phone (without speaking of all the other features).

 

[aliensporebomb]

Wow....

Can we all just get free bumpers

{QUOTE davesw ]
Videos: death grip on EVO, Droid Incredible, Nexus One, Galaxy 1, G1, etc.

* http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-kFc..._with_droid_x/

* Samsung I9000 Galaxy S: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LROTHrTR92k

* HTC Evo Signal Attenuation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pj2YBYTbag

* Samsung Galaxy 1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

* Samsung Galaxy 2:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPCQdYtPihg

* Droid Incredible: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaDE941PzQk

* Droid Incredible (With Network Extender in Room): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpEQH...eature=related

* Nexus One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEIA_lMwqJA

* Nexus One vs. iPhone (start at 1:29): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvMoV4_C4aA

* http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-kFc..._with_droid_x/

* Nexus One: http://posterous.com/getfile/files.p...n_-_iPhone.m4v

* Nexus One (after Google's update to correct): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2g5J4qPp54

* Nexus One: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deCkjeHYT-g

* Android G1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CDaxhjUs9M

* "Major signal degradation when Nexus One is picked up" (N1 Thread on On this Problem): http://www.google.com/support/forum/...9184c33e&hl=en

That must be the definitive list - are there more?

 

[aliensporebomb]

Yes!

The animation was hilarious, all news should be presented that way.

\

I saw it first thing this morning shortly after I woke up and it was so surreal I laughed out loud when I saw it. Those are the same people that "re-enacted" Tiger Woods brou-haha with his wife after it became apparently he had sex with nearly every girl in South Florida except for her.

 

[Zunjine]

For the nth time: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3821/iphone-4-redux-analyzing-apples-ios-41-signal-fix/3

That's not the same thing. I was talking about the suggestions that 'shorting' the two sides of the antenna with a finger causes the problem. This doesn't mention that effect at all. I see here the issue of touching the stainless steel but they don't talk about the effecting of just 'shorting' the two sides.

And please quit with the attitude. It's not helpful.

 

[Max(IT)]

You need to understand, even if your phone works for everything you do and no where you are (like most of us), your phone is defective in their eyes.

Understand?

you said well, and I highlighted : in their eyes

i am not a basher. i am trying to differentiate the one finger in one spot on the i4 vs. what is shown in the videos, which is the phone firmly in hand, with the palm or fingers always covering the part that apple, itself, says is the antenna location.

What the videos show re: other phones may very well be the normal way to hold those phones. I don't dispute that. But it doesn't change the fact that touching the iphone in one single location with one finger results in signal loss, and that Apple has not shown that happen with ANY other phone.

And my point re: that is simply that hldan insists that Apple HAS shown that, and i am still waiting for him to identify where that proof is.

No, you aren't a basher.
But you started a war on the forum against the iphone4 ...
Your first point was "it drops bars when you hold it normally".
Now we showed videos about a lot of other phones doing exactly the same and your point suddenly change in "yes, but it drops bars when you put a finger on the bridge of the two antennas".

It seems to me that the only problem is in the Apple on the back cover: maybe you like Android more. Fine, your choice. Move on

 

[Max(IT)]

I can understand users who have a problem coming here venting their frustration over a rather stupid design decision and seeking others that are in similar situation.

I can also understand people like me who wants to know the extents and/or why Apple of all could've slipped up like this.


Then there is you (and people like you)...

You complain about people complaining about a product that isn't working for them but is working for you. If the iPhone 4 works that good for you why do you repeatedly go on and on, only to come down on those with legitimate complaints? In short, you criticize people for very thing you're practicing yourself!

If you stop being so juvenile you will cut the complaints by half if you cease doing this over and over.

Does that make sense?

Bash on...

There are very few people here complaining about iPhone 4 and ACTUALLY OWNING IT.
most complainers are just like you: joined the forum on June/July 2010 and keep bitching about a phone they don't have.
Plus the well known iPhone bashers of the forum: people with thousands posts here, bashing the iPhone since its launch (and incidentally most of them are android users).

iPhone users are keep saying "my iPhone is ok".

 

[AidenShaw]

Your first point was "it drops bars when you hold it normally".

Now we showed videos about a lot of other phones doing exactly the same and your point suddenly change in "yes, but it drops bars when you put a finger on the bridge of the two antennas".

For me, my palm hits that spot when I hold it normally - so what's your argument?

Although I'm right-handed, I hold my touch-screen smartphone in my left hand (much more convenient when I'm poking at the screen to make a call or send a message). My "natural" grip would cover the "gap of death" with fleshy body parts.

Why do so many people refuse to accept the concept that having places on a handheld phone that you shouldn't touch with your hand is a defective design?

Many phones have areas on the phone that you shouldn't block with fleshy body parts, but only the Iphone 4 has specific places that a touch can mean a dropped call.

most complainers are just like you: joined the forum on June/July 2010

Not me.

Wouldn't "not owning an Iphone 4" make someone more objective - since she wouldn't be worried about admitting that she'd purchased a defective product?

 

[PerfSeeker]

For me, my palm hits that spot when I hold it normally - so what's your argument?

Although I'm right-handed, I hold my touch-screen smartphone in my left hand (much more convenient when I'm poking at the screen to make a call or send a message). My "natural" grip would cover the "gap of death" with fleshy body parts.

Why do so many people refuse to accept the concept that having places on a handheld phone that you shouldn't touch with your hand is a defective design?

Not.

I refuse to buy a handset that (a) FORCES me to put it in a case, (b) I have to avoid touching the antenna gap. Why should I have to stress out about a freakin' phone?

 

[cmaier]

you said well, and I highlighted : in their eyes


No, you aren't a basher.
But you started a war on the forum against the iphone4 ...
Your first point was "it drops bars when you hold it normally".

No it wasn't. My point has always been it drops CALLS (not bars) when I hold it the way *I* normally hold it, which is the way I feel comfortable holding it so that it doesn't drop to the floor. (more specifically, i've said i have a bigger problem with calls coming in straight to voicemail than with dropped calls).

I also have said the iPhone4 is a good device, but, for me, a lousy phone - my "war" is against how apple is handling it, not against the device itself.

Ive also ALWAYS pointed out the difference between attenuation and detuning, and pointed out that the issue with iphone4 is it is subject to drop calls when touched in just one spot, but that it's understandable if a call is dropped when you cover up the entire antenna. I've been consistent. I've also always admitted other phones drop calls if you cover the entire antenna, and i even pointed out how human flesh absorbs the cellphone radiation and turns it to heat. You are thinking of someone else, i think.

 

[Mal]

There are very few people here complaining about iPhone 4 and ACTUALLY OWNING IT.
most complainers are just like you: joined the forum on June/July 2010 and keep bitching about a phone they don't have.
Plus the well known iPhone bashers of the forum: people with thousands posts here, bashing the iPhone since its launch (and incidentally most of them are android users).

iPhone users are keep saying "my iPhone is ok".

Not me.

Yes, you fit into the second category above: I believe you indeed hold the distinction as the oldest troll on the forums.

In fact, I think I've finally decided to just pop you onto my ignore list. You're probably on the ignore list of half the users of the forum who know how to use it anyways, so maybe you won't care, but at least I can stop seeing your uninformed and biased Apple bashing posts (I can't think of the last time I saw you say anything positive about any Apple product, which just solidifies my opinion that you're here exclusively as a troll).

jW