'Antennagate' Reactions: RIM, Nokia, Taiwanese Animation

[cmaier]

And all this time, I thought that phrase was coined from the script of "Risky Business."

Hopefully, once Apple has been in the phone industry for more than a mere four years, they'll be learned, experienced, and confident enough to say the same.

However, Porsches still skid on icy roads - even with their fine suspension and drive train, their traction is compromised while driving on ice.

By Porsche's standards, this should be unacceptable.

Nice try. Thanks to PSM (Porsche Stability Management) and a 50/50 weight ratio, my Porsche traction is as good on ice as it can possibly be. It is as good as one expects from a Porsche. (The fact that it is better than nearly any other competing car is moot.)

i4's reception when the phone is held in hand the way many people normally do is not only worse than it could be, it is worse than Apple's own previous efforts.

Can you really expect better from any engine if you don't maintain it properly? Engine blocks don't crack without a cause. Perhaps coolant was not up to 50% or something came loose internally. I doubt we will know. I also doubt that it was a new engine or an engine that was still under warranty.

Not sure what you are saying. The engine block cracked because of a manufacturing defect, that Porsche admitted. The car received regular dealer maintenance, more frequently even than called for in the service manual.

The replacement engine was a brand new engine (a "crate engine") flown in from Germany. They offered me a used engine with 12,500 miles on it if I didn't want to wait for them to finish their analysis of my existing engine block (which took a couple weeks), but I declined.

 

[DMann]

Nice try. Thanks to PSM (Porsche Stability Management) and a 50/50 weight ratio, my Porsche traction is as good on ice as it can possibly be. It is as good as one expects from a Porsche. (The fact that it is better than nearly any other competing car is moot.)

i4's reception when the phone is held in hand the way many people normally do is not only worse than it could be, it is worse than Apple's own previous efforts.

I find the 4Matic S550, with Active Body Control to handle snowy/icy/slippery road surfaces better than Porsches I've driven, unless your driving a 911 Carrera 4 - this is my personal experience.

I do find the i4's reception to be superior to that of the 3GS.

As with automobiles and weather conditions, YMMV.

 

[albusseverus]

All phones lose signal when your hand gets in the way, what Apple didn't tell everyone was how much signal the iPhone 4 loses, compared with other phones.

There's a lot more info at AnandTech, but the raw figures are:

iPhone 4 dropped 24dB
3GS dropped 14 dB
Nexus One dropped 17 dB

That means iPhone 4 lost more than 8 times more signal than the 3GS did
and more than 4 times more signal than the Nexus One.
And there is the law of physics that Apple can't change.

Take your phone back and buy one after 30 Sept, if and only if there's some indication Apple has quietly changed the design by then. Don't wait any longer than your 30 days, hoping Apple can do a firmware fix. Not going to happen.

 

[JordanNZ]

All phones lose signal when your hand gets in the way, what Apple didn't tell everyone was how much signal the iPhone 4 loses, compared with other phones.

There's a lot more info at AnandTech, but the raw figures are:

iPhone 4 dropped 24dB
3GS dropped 14 dB
Nexus One dropped 17 dB

That means iPhone 4 lost more than 8 times more signal than the 3GS did
and more than 4 times more signal than the Nexus One.
And there is the law of physics that Apple can't change.

Take your phone back and buy one after 30 Sept, if and only if there's some indication Apple has quietly changed the design by then. Don't wait any longer than your 30 days, hoping Apple can do a firmware fix. Not going to happen.

While this is true, if you read back one page...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3821/iphone-4-redux-analyzing-apples-ios-41-signal-fix/2

You'll see that the antenna on the iPhone4 is a lot more sensitive than the 3GS. From what I've read, you can hold a call on the iPhone4 all the way down to -121dbm. No way that's going to happen on a 3GS, which seems to make up for the 10db difference in signal loss between the two if held like that......

 

[DMann]

While this is true, if you read back one page...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3821/iphone-4-redux-analyzing-apples-ios-41-signal-fix/2

You'll see that the antenna on the iPhone4 is a lot more sensitive than the 3GS. From what I've read, you can hold a call on the iPhone4 all the way down to -121dbm. No way that's going to happen on a 3GS, which seems to make up for the 10db difference in signal loss between the two if held like that......

The iP4 seems to compensate for the 10dB differential quite generously.

I've had two dropped calls earlier, this morning, at approx. 1:45 AM EDT, in a remote neighborhood, in NW NJ.

When using the 3GS in this particular area, it had always been a dead zone - no signal.

With the iP4, a call came in, and I was able to talk for over 20 minutes, with two drops - notably, I had enough signal to dial back after the dropped calls.

Given the choice, I prefer having a more sensitive antenna, one able to hold weak signals, over a less sensitive one, which registers no signal at all.

A trade-off, perhaps, but a beneficial one, at the very least.

 

[albusseverus]

While this is true, if you read back one page...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3821/iphone-4-redux-analyzing-apples-ios-41-signal-fix/2

You'll see that the antenna on the iPhone4 is a lot more sensitive than the 3GS. From what I've read, you can hold a call on the iPhone4 all the way down to -121dbm. No way that's going to happen on a 3GS, which seems to make up for the 10db difference in signal loss between the two if held like that......

Their point here is that it's a risky tradeoff - at low signal availability, if you don't hold the phone, you'll get a call out of the 4 when the 3GS won't, but if you accidentally hold your phone, the 4 will die before the 3GS does.

I'd like to know how DMann was holding their phone (or not), because that's what's being examined here, if you hold the phone, how does that affect performance?

The answer is, if you're signal's low enough, the 4 will die before the 3GS, even though it's more sensitive.​

The consumer's complaint is that they're not sure they want a phone that they can't hold while making a call. Apple says, whatever you do, don't hold the phone!

I've made calls in places that are usually No Service, (on a 3G) — it just depends…

 

[KnightWRX]

Where did you get yours?

My what ? Notice I didn't post a number. I said it was unknown, because it is a fact that even Apple doesn't know how many users are affected.

Did you even understand my post ? Read it ? Seriously, you're trying too hard. You can accuse AidenShaw of being a paid shill all you want, you don't sound much better than he does. If you're doing this for free, then there's no doubt he's also doing the opposite for free.

Would you prefer Apple just pick a number out of the air? Where do you think the other manufacturers get their figures?

Actually, I would've preferred they not try to deflect, deny and spin. But that's just me. A simple apology, admit there's a problem, offer free bumpers or a full refund, "We love our users and we learn from our mistakes, that's part of growing up".

I would have been 100% satisfied. The deflection, denial and spinning pissed me off. Same reason their initial press release pissed me off "Bars!". It's not the actual issue that is a problem here, there are band-aids for it and you can use the phone no problem once you've applied them, it's Apple's whole attitude about it. "We can do no wrong". "Apple does no wrong" repeats the iPhone Defense Squad.

Did you really expect a company dealing with an overblown issue to recall their best product launch ever?

I would think if you were the CEO, you would be in the same ballpark of how Apple handled it.

"Hi guys. At Apple, we always strive to make the best products. And we don't sit still, we go for new markets, bring our ideas to them and change them for the better. In the mobile space, we've done a lot and helped the industry move forward. A lot of people said we couldn't do it, we didn't have the experience. While true, we did manage to do pretty darn good *chuckle*. However, there are growing pains. There's an issue. Sorry, we love you guys, Free Bumpers or Full refund".

That is what I hoped for. Simple, no spin, no denial, no deflection, same offer to fix. That is loving your customers. The way the conference was done was an insult to my and many other's intelligence.

 

[DMann]

I'd like to know how DMann was holding their phone (or not), because that's what's being examined here, if you hold the phone, how does that affect performance?

In this particular area, I was mindful to rest the phone on top of my hand, without much contact on the sides.

Admittedly, I was more interested in keeping the conversation going, than in testing to see if I could kill the call.

I suppose, I could call someone else, in that area, and test the attenuation - surely, the signal is weak enough there to easily kill the call.

Regardless, I am appreciative of the added reception.

 

[DMann]

My what ? Notice I didn't post a number.

You therefore have no basis to claim otherwise.

Seriously, you're trying too hard.

Riiiiiight:

Deflect, Deny, Spin. Continue doing this DMann, you keep fanning the flames coming at you from all sides. It's ironic you then complain that people just won't let go of the issue. Like Apple, all you're doing is pissing people off with your half truths and biased statistics that ignore the whole picture.

What, more drama?

Actually, I would've preferred they not try to deflect, deny and spin. But that's just me. A simple apology, admit there's a problem, offer free bumpers or a full refund, "We love our users and we learn from our mistakes, that's part of growing up". The deflection, denial and spinning pissed me off. Same reason their initial press release pissed me off "Bars!". It's not the actual issue that is a problem here, there are band-aids for it and you can use the phone no problem once you've applied them, it's Apple's whole attitude about it. "We can do no wrong". "Apple does no wrong" repeats the iPhone Defense Squad.

Oh, wait, there's more:

"Hi guys. At Apple, we always strive to make the best products. And we don't sit still, we go for new markets, bring our ideas to them and change them for the better. In the mobile space, we've done a lot and helped the industry move forward. A lot of people said we couldn't do it, we didn't have the experience. While true, we did manage to do pretty darn good *chuckle*. However, there are growing pains. There's an issue. Sorry, we love you guys, Free Bumpers or Full refund".

That is what I hoped for. Simple, no spin, no denial, no deflection, same offer to fix. That is loving your customers. The way the conference was done was an insult to my and many other's intelligence.

Keep it up.

 

[Max(IT)]

I did read it - but the premise of the article is that free bumpers are an OK fix for the defective Iphone 4.

My "personal war", as you call it, against the Iphone 4 will end the minute that Jobs stands up and admits that "Apple screwed up" and takes responsibility for the Iphone 4 problems. Period. End.

There is not admission because there is nothing wrong in that antenna.
It behaves in that way cause it is designed that way.
It has a better signal to noise ratio, but it is more sensible to detuning/attenuation IF YOU TOUCH THE WELL KNOWN "HOT SPOT".
simple like that.
BTW what do you want from apple? You are not going to buy one. You are not in the payroll of another company (sure about that?).
So what the crap is your problem ?
Aiden, you are fighting a long time personal war against iPhone, it is quite easy to do a little search on your activity here.
I'm just wondering why ...

If it seems like repetition it's probably because people tend to repeat themselves when the listener does nothing but shake their head.

Exactly that.
I don't agree with those who put knightwrx and aiden in their ignore list, because I believe in the power of discussion. But I start thinking they are not really listen to anyone. They bash the iPhone just to piss off all the people here who like it. I don't know why, but this is what it seems to me ...

Where did you get this stat ? Not the conference I hope, because you do understand that people calling Applecare aren't the only ones having the issue right ?

See aggie, this is what I mean. There's disingenuous people on both sides. Now I have to again post a rebuttal to DMann, because he fails to even listen to facts and then correct his claims and misinformation :



Deflect, Deny, Spin. Continue doing this DMann, you keep fanning the flames coming at you from all sides. It's ironic you then complain that people just won't let go of the issue. Like Apple, all you're doing is pissing people off with your half truths and biased statistics that ignore the whole picture.

And where did you get your assumptions ? When you buy something and it doesn't work properly you just take it back OR call the customer care.
People bitching on forums usually are the one who don't own an iPhone .... just like you

 

[aegisdesign]

Apple does not have an issue with the phone. They made a conscious decision and felt it was an acceptable risk. A very small percentage of iP4 buyers found this unacceptable. Apple is offering the bumper to appease these owners. It's interim because Apple is leaving the door open to another solution for these users and future buyers of the phone.

Surely, as a prospective iPhone 4 buyer, I'm going to want this problem fixed?

Would anyone knowingly buy a phone that has a problem that may cause it to drop calls in low signal areas when accidentally held 'wrongly'?

If the bumper is an interim fix then what happens when Apple has a real fix? Do they replace 3 million iPhones? Are the people who bought the iPhone 4 before the real fix stuck with a phone that may not work as well as the new fixed model OR do they have to use cheesy bumpers all the time?

Maybe these people bought the iPhone 4 for its Rams-ian Braun design rip-off and don't want cheesy bumpers. Maybe they want a working phone.

Or perhaps I'd just buy someone else's phone that doesn't have this bridging antennae problem or that suffers from undue attenuation of up to -24dB. Something that works but isn't as pretty, which is what Nokia were alluding to when they said they "prioritise antenna performance over physical design if they are ever in conflict".

I would think the 'real fix' will come soon and it'll be a simple non-conductive coating on the steel sides. Rubberised would be nice. Jonny Ive will obviously have to curb his Dieter Rams obsession with black and silver. Even Rams used other materials.

 

[KnightWRX]

You therefore have no basis to claim otherwise.

Uh ? I have a very good basis to say your number is flawed even if I don't have a counter number. You are really trying to claim that 100% of users with the issue called Applecare ? After the reaction from posters on MR about that number was "Hey Steve, I didn't call AppleCare, I have the issue" ?

Seriously, keep digging man.

EDIT :

And where did you get your assumptions ? When you buy something and it doesn't work properly you just take it back OR call the customer care.
People bitching on forums usually are the one who don't own an iPhone .... just like you

Again, 100% of users with the issue didn't call Applecare. That's a simple fact. To pretend otherwise is quite ludicrous and an insult to the collective intelligence of Macrumor members.

Again, there's more than 1 channel for customer support with the iPhone 4. I listed a few. Why wouldn't it be legitimate for people to use those channels instead of the phone service ? Are you saying the Genius bar isn't a good place to report problems ?

 

[DMann]

There is not admission because there is nothing wrong in that antenna.
It behaves in that way cause it is designed that way.
It has a better signal to noise ratio, but it is more sensible to detuning/attenuation IF YOU TOUCH THE WELL KNOWN "HOT SPOT".
simple like that.

In summary, an antenna which works well, in fact, better, in low signal areas, is hardly defective.

For an improved all-around reception, I'm perfectly willing to avoid a tiny spot when in low-signal areas.

BTW what do you want from apple? You are not going to buy one. You are not in the payroll of another company (sure about that?).
So what the crap is your problem ?
Aiden, you are fighting a long time personal war against iPhone, it is quite easy to do a little search on your activity here.
I'm just wondering why ...

Bizarre, purely bizarre.

I don't agree with those who put knightwrx and aiden in their ignore list, because I believe in the power of discussion. But I start thinking they are not really listen to anyone. They bash the iPhone just to piss off all the people here who like it. I don't know why, but this is what it seems to me ...

Quite true - pissing on everyone's parade, stirring the pot, and condescendingly patronizing anyone who happens to find value in products which serve them well seems to be the agenda, here.

And where did you get your assumptions ? When you buy something and it doesn't work properly you just take it back OR call the customer care.
People bitching on forums usually are the one who don't own an iPhone .... just like you

Ain't that the truth, in extreme cases, such as these.

Uh ? I have a very good basis to say your number is flawed even if I don't have a counter number. You are really trying to claim that 100% of users with the issue called Applecare ? After the reaction from posters on MR about that number was "Hey Steve, I didn't call AppleCare, I have the issue" ?

Seriously, keep digging man.

Sure you do - on the basis of posters here?

Again, 100% of users with the issue didn't call Applecare. That's a simple fact. To pretend otherwise is quite ludicrous and an insult to the collective intelligence of Macrumor members.

Again, there's more than 1 channel for customer support with the iPhone 4. I listed a few. Why wouldn't it be legitimate for people to use those channels instead of the phone service ? Are you saying the Genius bar isn't a good place to report problems ?

So that's you point?

The figure increases from .55% to .85%?

That changes everything.

 

[KnightWRX]

Sure you do - on the basis of posters here?

If even 1 poster here countered that he didn't call Apple care, it makes the number wrong.

Again, that number is not the number of affected users, it is the number of people that called Applecare about having this issue. To try to spin this number as anything else is disingenuous.

BTW in case you missed it guys, I am an iPhone user. So bugger off with your attempts to label me a troll. The only ones stirring the pot here are you and Max(IT)

 

[DMann]

If even 1 poster here countered that he didn't call Apple care, it makes the number wrong.

Again, that number is not the number of affected users, it is the number of people that called Applecare about having this issue. To try to spin this number as anything else is disingenuous.

BTW in case you missed it guys, I am an iPhone user. So bugger off with your attempts to label me a troll. The only ones stirring the pot here are you and Max(IT)

How about we raise the figure to .92% and call it a night?

Keep up the drama, BTW.

 

[-aggie-]

All this arguing over a percent.

So, in the next few days when there are still no long lines returning the 4, what then? Because you know if there are, the media is going to jump all over that.

 

[KnightWRX]

How about we raise the figure to .92% and call it a night?

How about you stop quoting a number out of context and we call it a day ?

Keep up the drama, BTW.

Keep fanning those flames BTW.

All this arguing over a percent.

Over a misquoted percent that is posted in a way to create misinformation. You're quite to post rebutals yet you cry when others do the same thing ? And you wonder why I lump you in with Dmann and Max(IT) ?

So, in the next few days when there are still no long lines returning the 4, what then? Because you know if there are, the media is going to jump all over that.

What then what ? Like I said, Free bumper was the right fix, it's Apple's attitude about the whole thing that pissed me off.

 

[DMann]

How about you stop quoting a number out of context and we call it a day ?

How about you stop carrying on about approximate figures, in the first place?

Look, I don't consider you a troll, at all.

You're entitled to be pissed, but also realize that it's been only 26 days since the iP4's release - the issue will likely be handled in a timely manner, as things are examined further.

We'll all chill, if you're willing to do so.

 

[KnightWRX]

How about you stop carrying on about approximate figures, in the first place?

I'm not the one misquoting numbers to prove points. Follow your own advice.

You're entitled to be pissed, but also realize that it's been only 26 days since the iP4's release - the issue will likely be handled in a timely manner, as things are examined further.

We'll all chill, if you're willing to do so.

Again, don't care about the issue. I'll simply not upgrade my 3GS when iPhone 4 hits Canada (yes, my credit card was ready). It's Apple's whole attitude, and that is too late to fix, the damage is done. They played their game how they wanted and the fact you, Max(IT) and aggie keep repeating that nonsense doesn't help anyone chill.

So let's all stick to the facts and I won't have to post rebuttals (and neither will aggie like she likes to say she does).

 

[-aggie-]

How about you stop quoting a number out of context and we call it a day ?

Keep fanning those flames BTW.

Over a misquoted percent that is posted in a way to create misinformation. You're quite to post rebutals yet you cry when others do the same thing ? And you wonder why I lump you in with Dmann and Max(IT) ?

What then what ? Like I said, Free bumper was the right fix, it's Apple's attitude about the whole thing that pissed me off.

Read my post in context, if that's possible for you, since you seem to be so angry you can't see straight. I'm saying, it doesn't matter what the percent is; the reality of how many people are dissatisfied will soon become apparent in the next few days, if it hasn't already become apparent. If you don't see long lines returning the phone, then Jobs numbers aren't far off (and I agree obviously they're higher, just nowhere near as high as some have tried to make them out to be.....like 27.5% I saw one poster write....ridiculous).

Edit: Just saw your latest post. You don't even have an iPhone 4. Wow.

 

[doctor-don]

So why didn't all those iPhone 4 users who experienced a problem call Applecare?

Maybe it was because they didn't experience any more of a problem making / receiving calls than they had experienced with phones they had owned prior to the iPhone.

Maybe it was because they heard from other sources that the problem can be alleviated by holding the phone in a different manner.

 

[KnightWRX]

Edit: Just saw your latest post. You don't even have an iPhone 4. Wow.

Again, release in Canada is on July 30th according to Apple. I was ready to upgrade. Blame them for not releasing on June 24th here also, or I would have had one. Their attitude has changed my mind.

I didn't know you had to own an iPhone 4 to comment on Apple's handling of the situation.

So why didn't all those iPhone 4 users who experienced a problem call Applecare?

Because instead they either :

- Went to the Genius bar at the Apple store
- Went to the AT&T Store
- Called AT&T customer care
- Called O2 UK customer care
- Called Orange customer care
- Heard about it in the media and decided to wait and see what apple were going to do.

Need I go on ? The Applecare figure is meaningless because it is 1 channel of information that users could use. Until we have statistics for other these other forms of communication, the stat means nothing at all.

And returns won't indicate who has the problem or not, just like Free cases won't. Users that don't see the issue will get free cases, just because why would you pay for something free. Users that have the issue might decide the free case or holding it differently is a worthwhile fix and keep it.

We'll probably never know how many users are affected. Now we know all units are though, it just depends on location, how you hold it and if you use a case or not.

 

[-aggie-]

Again, release in Canada is on July 30th according to Apple. I was ready to upgrade. Blame them for not releasing on June 24th here also, or I would have had one. Their attitude has changed my mind.

I didn't know you had to own an iPhone 4 to comment on Apple's handling of the situation.



Because instead they either :

- Went to the Genius bar at the Apple store
- Went to the AT&T Store
- Called AT&T customer care
- Called O2 UK customer care
- Called Orange customer care
- Heard about it in the media and decided to wait and see what apple were going to do.

Need I go on ? The Applecare figure is meaningless because it is 1 channel of information that users could use. Until we have statistics for other these other forms of communication, the stat means nothing at all.

Then don't respond to my posts, because none of my posts have anything to do with how Apple/Steve responded to the situation. My responses have been about whether this is a problem that warrants all the hysteria and how many people really have an issue. It "seems" like your posts are suggesting the hysteria is warranted, not so much on how Steve acted. I don't buy things based on how Steve acts. However, I thought Apple's response was a good one and the only one they could have made after being boxed into a corner by the media.

 

[OllyW]

So why didn't all those iPhone 4 users who experienced a problem call Applecare?

Perhaps they read this story and thought it would be a complete waste of time.

 

[KnightWRX]

Then don't respond to my posts, because none of my posts have anything to do with how Apple/Steve responded to the situation. My responses have been about whether this is a problem that warrants all the hysteria and how many people really have an issue. It "seems" like your posts are suggesting the hysteria is warranted, not so much on how Steve acted. I don't buy things based on how Steve acts. However, I thought Apple's response was a good one and the only one they could have made after being boxed into a corner by the media.

Wait, don't reply to your posts ? Sorry honey, as long as you keep quoting Steve's numbers, I will reply. Those numbers were spin for the reasons I enumerated earlier. As long as you keep replying to my posts, I will keep replying to yours also.

If you talk about how many people have the issue and use Steve's figures, I will rebut you every time.