Anti-Vista Marketing at Apple Stores

[ChrisA]

You know, I was really just trying to shoot down uNext. He was claiming that NASA did not write its own OS. I provided a link stating otherwise. I did not mean to imply that NASA doesn't use Windows at all, but I really don't know what OS's are in use there, so I won't comment either way.

But oh yeah, << gasp >>. So glad I braced myself before reading your comment. You've taught me so much.

NASA is a large organization. Pick an OS. ... OK, I like "Irix". I'll bet you $100 NASA uses Irix. There are still some VMS installations and of course Solaris, VxWorks and MS Windows and Mac OS. To say the NASA uses something means nothing because they use everything.

As for flight hardware OSes. Only recently have they actually been using an OS in the flight hardware. More typically was it just a "run time environment" and more like an set of interrupt handlers. They would have a set of timers that generate interrupts and then have bits of code hung off each interrupt. If you all that "writting an OS" and it's been re-written many times.

 

[clevin]

i mean M$ definitely allows more hardware manufacurers to develop, and apple restricts that. but there's a big difference between M$ and ? here in that M$ just wants to sell their software, whereas ? wants to sell their hardware. So M$ basically says "I don't care what hardware you want to run this on, just buy it from us" and ? says (nowadays) "I don't care what OS you run on it, just buy it from us" They have different objectives as far as hardware configurations are concerned.

i guess what im basically saying is.
end user can have more hardware and software choices with windows.
hardware manufacturers will be able to survive easier with windows than OSX, coz apple does have big restriction there.

is it good or not? I don't judge. if apple think thats the way to control the quality, then apple need to accept the consequence of limited market.

 

[clevin]

Well, some ads work. They introduce a product or show a new feature of an existing product to make people want to go out and buy it. Are you personally influenced by these anti-vista ads at all? Do you think others will be? Sure, maybe some.

But my jab was mainly aimed at some of the people in this thread that were making claims of getting rid of their Macs or switching to Linux just because of these ads. Isn't that a tad shallow? I know they're probably not going to anyway and just spouting off nonsense here, but really...change your entire OS just because you don't like an ad? Come on...

hehe, i understand, im sure those are extreme minority, but, i do think they exist, after all, I put on SUSE on my compaq because I really tired of M$. SO i can't rule out there are some guys just have straight forward thinking (I definitely not saying its bad, don't bash me)

 

[uNext]

You know, I just spent about twenty seconds on Google and learned that NASA has their own OS called "Time Warp". You may want to spend a little bit of time researching your arguments before you try to ridicule others via mediocre grammar.

And I believe that the original Mac, the iMac, OS X, the iPod, iPhone, and TV would be excellent examples of actual innovations made by Apple.

Clearly you are very selective in what you choose to believe and you seem to base those decisions on isolated ideas in your head (ideas such as "I think NASA uses Windows"), so I won't be offended if you don't believe me.

run parallel discrete event simulated applications

That information was laST updated back in 1996

HAVE YOU SEEN THE LAST NASA HD REPORT? The austronauts aboard where all using a dell with windows xp and "time warp" within windows.

SO no they dont have their own os but their own mainframe running under windows.

How inovative is T.V REALLY?

Innovation is havign a gaming system where it connects to your computer and i tcan turn into a PVR. and stream any file from your computer to your t.v.

Apple did no come up with the whole stream to your tv content
sorry to burst your bubble.

The iMac amazing design all in one beatiful but guess what they where not the first all in one they did however make it sexy not INNOVATIVE more like evolution.

The iPod again was not the first to do it it evolved from what was already on the market they did make it sexy and usefull can it really be considered innovative?

the iPhone? i have had a phone that can what the iphone is claiming innoavtive for over 3 years now.

Once again they are not innovative they evolve products with great ideas.
They basically steal the idea or the concept and add that apple topping on top and pass it as innovative.

Perfect example look at 1 of the next features for leopard called spaces?
been out for years but i think apple will find a way to say THEY CREATED IT.

 

[3nm]

personally i start finding this mac > windows campaign lame. the whole thing is like a troll. what happened to jobs' "ecosystem" speech in '97? why did apple develop boot camp AND advertise mactels can run windows/office?

 

[KingofAwesome]

NASA is a large organization. Pick an OS. ... OK, I like "Irix". I'll bet you $100 NASA uses Irix. There are still some VMS installations and of course Solaris, VxWorks and MS Windows and Mac OS. To say the NASA uses something means nothing because they use everything.

As for flight hardware OSes. Only recently have they actually been using an OS in the flight hardware. More typically was it just a "run time environment" and more like an set of interrupt handlers. They would have a set of timers that generate interrupts and then have bits of code hung off each interrupt. If you all that "writting an OS" and it's been re-written many times.

I'm sure that they use multiple OSes. That was entirely not my point at all. I was refuting the following claim made by uNext:

And learn that NASA dont have their own operating system-there is no such thing.

There is most definitely at least one operating system developed by NASA, and this OS is called Time Warp. I wasn't saying it's the only OS they use.

In unrelated matters, regarding governments using only Windows, I can say that I work for a state government and I use a G5 iMac in my office. Macs are a minority in government, but they are most definitely in use.

 

[brepublican]

Love but I'm not really feeling this campaign. Lets focus on the merits of OS X. Cos I believe it really is better than Vista, so we shouldn't have to resort to this unecessary bashing

 

[clevin]

Oh really? Windows Vista: No Blu-ray/HD DVD support out of the box

I really wish you would at least consider looking these things up first.

Oops, that link was a few months old. Here's one from yesterday: Vista will not support Blu-ray or HD DVD playback out-of-the-box or on most PCs

I think you're forgetting that Windows XP didn't support DVD video out-of-the-box either. The format's doing just fine. how much does "out of box" really weigh?

anyway, do Tiger support Blue Ray or HD?

 

[dukeblue91]

They could be coming to look at iPods...?



Or my Apple store sells Dells, Toshibas, Fujitsu-Siemens, MS Office and many, many other computer related things... both apple and non-apple.

You are right, they could be there for an iPod or whatever, but the fact is that 50% of Apple Store consumers buying a Mac are new to the Mac.

If you read the article you will see that they are talking about Apple Inc. stores and not some third rate I sell everything wanna be Best Buy Or Comp USA store in Canada.

 

[TheBobcat]

That information was laST updated back in 1996

HAVE YOU SEEN THE LAST NASA HD REPORT? The austronauts aboard where all using a dell with windows xp and "time warp" within windows.

SO no they dont have their own os but their own mainframe running under windows.

How inovative is T.V REALLY?

Innovation is havign a gaming system where it connects to your computer and i tcan turn into a PVR. and stream any file from your computer to your t.v.

Apple did no come up with the whole stream to your tv content
sorry to burst your bubble.

The iMac amazing design all in one beatiful but guess what they where not the first all in one they did however make it sexy not INNOVATIVE more like evolution.

The iPod again was not the first to do it it evolved from what was already on the market they did make it sexy and usefull can it really be considered innovative?

the iPhone? i have had a phone that can what the iphone is claiming innoavtive for over 3 years now.

Once again they are not innovative they evolve products with great ideas.
They basically steal the idea or the concept and add that apple topping on top and pass it as innovative.

Perfect example look at 1 of the next features for leopard called spaces?
been out for years but i think apple will find a way to say THEY CREATED IT.

You should do stand-up, I haven't laughed this hard in months.

Between the beatiful iMac and your 3-year-premature discovery of the iPhone, I can't get enough. I hope you get a special on HBO, or at least a MySpace account or something.

 

[Bonte]

What i do like about these kind of advertisements is how it pisses off Microsoft, Apple can show them and trash Windows in it. Microsoft hasn't got this option, it would make osX to important. Coke made that mistake once with some very bad advertisement, we can only hope.

 

[mac 2005]

Maybe I'm naive, but I'm going to suspend judgment on this campaign until I actually see it. I think the transition to Vista represents a real opportunity for Apple, particularly given the proximity of the launch of Leopard.

Companies can directly compare the benefits of using their products over the competition's in a way that's mature and instructive. I'm sure that a number of people out there are considering switching to a Mac but may need the additional information about what Leopard offers that Vista doesn't. They're going to have to a buy a new computer, either way, in many cases, so the impetus is on Apple to educate them why Leopard and a Mac are the best path.

You can't make that appeal in isolation. You have to give people something to compare against -- you're not saying one is bad, so much as communicating how one is better. Posters claiming Apple is resorting to "fear, uncertainty and doubt" strike me as off-the-mark. Keep things in perspective: We're talking about a consumer purchase. Would anyone accuse Bounty of FUD when it says its paper towels clean better than Company X or Company Y?

At any rate, let's see the ads first. I find it "coincidental" that the negative votes on the current Apple campaign follow so closely on Gates' recent comments that the commercials insult Windows users rather than play on the misperceptions and rivalries that exist between both Windows and OS X users.

 

[clevin]

What i do like about these kind of advertisements is how it pisses off Microsoft, Apple can show them and trash Windows in it. Microsoft hasn't got this option, it would make osX to important. Coke made that mistake once with some very bad advertisement, we can only hope.

yes, sometimes its good to be minority.

 

[AaronPM]

Oh really? Windows Vista: No Blu-ray/HD DVD support out of the box

I really wish you would at least consider looking these things up first.

Oops, that link was a few months old. Here's one from yesterday: Vista will not support Blu-ray or HD DVD playback out-of-the-box or on most PCs

Ummm even the second quote you provided was old..

MS is not releasing a native Blu-ray/HD DVD playback option, they are relying on third party software support, very similar I believe to what they did with current DVD formats.

Cheers

A

 

[KingofAwesome]

That information was laST updated back in 1996

HAVE YOU SEEN THE LAST NASA HD REPORT? The austronauts aboard where all using a dell with windows xp and "time warp" within windows.

SO no they dont have their own os but their own mainframe running under windows.

How inovative is T.V REALLY?

Innovation is havign a gaming system where it connects to your computer and i tcan turn into a PVR. and stream any file from your computer to your t.v.

Apple did no come up with the whole stream to your tv content
sorry to burst your bubble.

The iMac amazing design all in one beatiful but guess what they where not the first all in one they did however make it sexy not INNOVATIVE more like evolution.

The iPod again was not the first to do it it evolved from what was already on the market they did make it sexy and usefull can it really be considered innovative?

the iPhone? i have had a phone that can what the iphone is claiming innoavtive for over 3 years now.

Once again they are not innovative they evolve products with great ideas.
They basically steal the idea or the concept and add that apple topping on top and pass it as innovative.

Perfect example look at 1 of the next features for leopard called spaces?
been out for years but i think apple will find a way to say THEY CREATED IT.

You've really gone off the deep end here. For one thing, an OS was in use in 1996 is still an OS. I don't see why it wouldn't still be an OS, even if it currently isn't used much.

Now onto these "non-innovations." I'll grant that the Xbox 360 is a device with very similar capabilities. I don't have either device, though, so I won't comment further on what Apple may have come up with on its own and what concepts might have been influenced by MS.

Now onto the iPod. The clickwheel is innovative. You did not see a device with this interface before Apple designed it.

The iMac's design was innovative because it was designed to look good. Computers before that weren't designed with physical appearance in mind. That was an innovation.

And you did not own a phone three years ago that could do everything the iPhone can do. I can't even begin to take that statement seriously. But let us know what model phone that is, because I'd certainly buy it if it could do what an iPhone will be able to do.

And I won't defend Apple for saying what you think they will say in the future regarding Spaces. In fact, I was using virtual desktops years ago when I used Linux, so if they did claim that it is innovative, I would also disagree with them.

 

[ready2switch]

I find it quite funny to see all the arguments over NASA and OS X on generic hardware and "OMG BRING BACK THE CUBE!" on this thread which is basically saying "Apple will have a new marketing campaign in-store".

We don't know what this campaign will be, but I would imagine it would be the same old "no viruses, drivers included, it just works" stuff that OS X has over Vista. Is that "anti-vista"? Maybe. But I think the majority of people already saying the marketing campaign they know nothing about is childish and smug to be a bit childish and smug themselves. Why should we assume that "anti-vista" means a mud-slinging poke-in-the-eye "my bike's bigger than your bike" type ad? You're so much better than Apple and you're so disappointed in them being so childish. You wouldn't stoop to that level and you can't believe they are? The plain truth is we don't know what they're going to do. If, indeed, it is mud-slinging, then feel free to be disappointed in Apple's childlike behavior. But to bash something you don't even know is true?

I, for one, will be glad to see Apple reinforcing the fact that Vista has problems that OS X doesn't have. Problems that many people see in XP and don't want to experience in their next computer purchase. Follow this up in a few months with Leopard and what it CAN do, and we could have a winner.

 

[TheBobcat]

You can't make that appeal in isolation. You have to give people something to compare against -- you're not saying one is bad, so much as communicating how one is better. Posters claiming Apple is resorting to "fear, uncertainty and doubt" strike me as off-the-mark. Keep things in perspective: We're talking about a consumer purchase. Would anyone accuse Bounty of FUD when it says its paper towels clean better than Company X or Company Y?

You're absolutely right, there's no evidence whatsoever of what this campaign actually is, but given what Apple has already shown us in the recent Get a Mac ads that address Vista, they aren't just going on TV and moaning about Windows.

Apple has to address exactly why OS X is superior to Windows because most average users do not know. Coinciding that with the confusion of the Vista launch is a smart business move.

Average users don't dislike "MS Windows" they just dislike "computers". Apple needs to make the distinction.

 

[KingofAwesome]

I think you're forgetting that Windows XP didn't support DVD video out-of-the-box either. The format's doing just fine. how much does "out of box" really weigh?

anyway, do Tiger support Blue Ray or HD?

No, I saw that when I found the article I linked (and I swear I thought the second article was dated yesterday... oh well). Out-of-the-box support admittedly doesn't mean much, but for some reason I felt the need to correct uNext for spouting off more incorrect info. I swear, I'm done caring what that frustrated little weiner has to say. First thing I do when I come into work tomorrow is look for an "ignore" option on this forum.

 

[hopejr]

This has probably been said before, but I don't see how this is going to help Apple get market share, and I don't see what else their trying to achieve by this. I know when I say negative things about Windows, it makes many of those people think I'm some sort of loser and less likely for them to look at Macs.

 

[ppnkg]

This is excellent news, as long as they are signs of a wider aggressive marketing strategy. If Apple really wants the mac to be genuinely an alternative to windows for the masses, then

a) release of leopard is imminent, and it is going to look good and include a number of cool features.
b) we should see dramatic improvements to what apple has to offer as an alternative to office. This will happen gradually, because MS will not or cannot pull the plug to office for mac right away
c) we'll probably going to see macs with better specs and prices will probably go down too.

Let's see.

The only thing I'm worried about is whether Apple's confidence in the security aspects of OSX is 100% justified. This is going to be a major battleground, very soon.

 

[APPLENEWBIE]

So many of the people that go into an Apple store already know what they are there for. I don't know that there are many folks that walk in there with the idea of .. hum.. am I going to switch today?!?!?! I just think that they will walk in.. chuckle at the antivista stuff and buy their Mac. I walked into a mac store for the first time knowing exactly what it was that i wanted. these guys have been converted prior to walking in. I just don't see the big deal here.

I agree. If the Apple stores are the battleground where T-shirts will be the weapons, then the battle will be mostly for the amusement of the choir. Not a big deal.

I believe that the current ad campaign is doing an excellent job of creating awareness that there is an alternative to Windows. When I switched 1 ½ years ago, I had no real knowledge of macs. I had gotten to the point were I was fairly knowledgeable about PC's, but Mac was not on my radar. It only got into my awareness when I went to a CompUSA store with a Windows disaster (one in a series), and was directed to the Mac department by a salesperson who was obviously tired of my story. It was really a revelation. It still surprises me that even being somewhat technologically minded, I was basically unaware that Mac was a viable alternative. What I am saying is that the current campaign IS drawing attention to a very small player in a very big game. And that is a good thing.

 

[Bonte]

This has probably been said before, but I don't see how this is going to help Apple get market share, and I don't see what else their trying to achieve by this. I know when I say negative things about Windows, it makes many of those people think I'm some sort of loser and less likely for them to look at Macs.

Problem is they will have to buy a new computer and that is one step to far, these adds only make sense if osX would run on there PC.

 

[Freyqq]

Problem is they will have to buy a new computer and that is one step to far, these adds only make sense if osX would run on there PC.

apple will not license osx in the near future. Apple is a company. They are there to make money. By selling the hardware and software together at a profit is how they make money. If they simply sold the OS, someone would buy OSX and forgo buying both the OS and the hardware. It makes no sense for apple. Sure, they may get some new customers and more share of the market, but not substantially.

Consider IE 6 v Firefox. Even though IE 6 was not even half as good in any way as Firefox, IE remains dominant by a considerable margin. And Firefox is free...

 

[kcmac]

Problem is they will have to buy a new computer and that is one step to far, these adds only make sense if osX would run on there PC.

A lot of these people may have to buy new computers to run Vista. These are the people Apple is going after. And they can run windows on the Mac.

 

[iSlicer]

reminiscent of religious arguments

You are never going to change some peoples minds! There are Mac only users, and there are Windows only users (lets forget the other OS's for the moment) It would be imposible to shake the foundations of their beliefs. However, their are a lot of agnostics (fence sitters) out there. People who are not tech savvy who simply do need a prod. You may as well capture these people with a Sunday door knock. Sure, some people will not be convinced and continue to sit on the fence but there will be a few who are willing to be swayed.

In my opinion, if the campaign is as good as the current Television comercials, it could actually be fun. This to me would be a great idea, especially while the Mac has so much credability. But, I also worry that if it comes across as too smug, those doors will be slammed in our faces.

Fingers are crossed.