Anyone else abandoning ship?

[MBAir2010]

Well, I guess Apple's lobbying against the right to repair is pretty revealing

that proves how fascist, totalitarian and egotistically condensed they have festered into.
I shakes fist towards Cupertino and shout: "its a stupid computer, not a set of lungs or a spleen!"
[doublepost=1559255388][/doublepost]100 pages of how we are leaving/left ship!
toast!

 

[Mendota]

I think Apple's intent is that this stuff all comes back to them and they can recycle it. Buy it, use it for three years, send it back to Apple. It wouldn't surprise me to see them offering Macbook as a Service at some point.

It could be argued that the lack of repairability then becomes less of an issue to the consumer (assuming Apple has specialized disassembly techniques like they do for iPhone).

I could be totally wrong. I know there are claims of reliability improvements with soldered components etc. My gut feel is that it's a conscious decision by Apple and that's the route they're taking in order to try to capture recurring revenue streams. Ultimately it would lead to consumers shelling out small but consistent dollars to Apple every month for hardware lease and services (iTunes, AppleTV, iCloud). There's got to be a pretty compelling set of dollar signs there.

Apple then gets to claim even stronger recycling statistics too.

Well for my part, I would be quite upset to be in a position where I have to upgrade at 3 or 4 years because of something such as a keyboard issue. Now I use Surface products and they are also glued... But my Surface Pro 3 five years plus still works flawlessly and the battery still charges 100%. My Surface Book first gen, same. As a result I have no complaints about them being glued. I wanted them for painting and sketching and the compromise has been worth it.

The issue with Apple is the unreliability of their products of late. Stage light, bad keyboards, issues with the SSD, etc. This is not an acceptable situation at any cost, let alone $2000 plus dollars.

 

[MBAir2010]

Mendota, i forgot, did you own any mac?

 

[Mendota]

Mendota, i forgot, did you own any mac?

Yes, I still have my Mac 2012, and a iPad Air2, and iPad Pro. I don't think I will ever buy another Mac though. I will be switching to Linux Neon to get my Unix Linux fix. I can get a very nice Linux notebook for a fraction of the price of Mac. Windows will remain my primary, Microsoft has always done well for me.

 

[Howard2k]

I don't buy that one second. For one, I never experienced or heard of RAM or SSDs failing because of failed sockets.
On the other hand, Apple does not hesitate to sell Macbooks with poor reliability, now 3 years and counting. They also glue that onto the top case which includes the battery. And if they replace, they replace it with the same design prone to fail.

So if you'd be correct this would mean: They solved a problem where no actual problem ever surfaced (RAM/SSD), at the same time introducing a much worse problem by gluing the keyboard to the top case, and as sugar on top they just replace in case of failure, but with the same flawed design resulting in no persistent fix at all.

So gluing/soldering actually decreased reliability. If reliability of said components actually was their intention - highly doubtful - they massively screwed up, didn't they?

Exactly what I’m inferring. The keyboard is a monumental screw up.

 

[AustinIllini]

Well for my part, I would be quite upset to be in a position where I have to upgrade at 3 or 4 years because of something such as a keyboard issue. Now I use Surface products and they are also glued... But my Surface Pro 3 five years plus still works flawlessly and the battery still charges 100%. My Surface Book first gen, same. As a result I have no complaints about them being glued. I wanted them for painting and sketching and the compromise has been worth it.

The issue with Apple is the unreliability of their products of late. Stage light, bad keyboards, issues with the SSD, etc. This is not an acceptable situation at any cost, let alone $2000 plus dollars.

The keyboard is the only one of these that's majorly problematic.

The others are fairly uncommon by comparison.

 

[shaunp]

My guess is that philosophically they want consumers to replace and not repair the machines, i.e., disposable products.

I get that for the consumer, but what about their own internal use. It just doesn't make sense.
[doublepost=1559262977][/doublepost]

Which apps are you referring to exactly?

Accounting software, HR, business intelligence, etc, etc, etc.

 

[poorcody]

Posted this in another thread, but seems like it belongs here, especially now that we've hit 100 pages!

From Consumer Reports 2018 Winter Survey of 36,919 laptop owners.

 

[Mendota]

Posted this in another thread, but seems like it belongs here, especially now that we've hit 100 pages!

From Consumer Reports 2018 Winter Survey of 36,919 laptop owners.

View attachment 839760​

The problem with this, and I mean it with all due respect. This is coming from Apple fans who for whatever reason, give Apple a pass. It is the same phenomenon that causes them to keep buying no matter what. True Apple fans never admit to issues until they become fed up. I use to subscribe to Consumer Reports, and I never answered any of their surveys. I just didn't have time for it. But Apple fans love to talk about Apple. For them Mac is an experience. On the other hand PC users are far less forgiving and they are inclined to blame even their own mistakes on the computer. For most PC users, computers are just tools. For many Mac users Macs are a inclusion into a exclusive club. They love Macs until they don't... And then you get a thread like this.

One of the issues I had with CR is they never took into consideration the Apple bias. They are certainly aware of the keyboard issues, so they have to know that many giving these glowing reports are being very tolerant.

 

[poorcody]

The problem with this, and I mean it with all due respect. This is coming from Apple fans who for whatever reason, give Apple a pass. It is the same phenomenon that causes them to keep buying no matter what. True Apple fans never admit to issues until they become fed up. I use to subscribe to Consumer Reports, and I never answered any of their surveys. I just didn't have time for it. But Apple fans love to talk about Apple. For them Mac is an experience. On the other hand PC users are far less forgiving and they are inclined to blame even their own mistakes on the computer. For most PC users, computers are just tools. For many Mac users Macs are a inclusion into a exclusive club. They love Macs until they don't... And then you get a thread like this.

One of the issues I had with CR is they never took into consideration the Apple bias. They are certainly aware of the keyboard issues, so they have to know that many giving these glowing reports are being very tolerant.

I have to say reading MacRumors over the last couple years makes me think Apple users are actually less tolerant. The vitrol on this site is rampant.

Also, Consumer Reports does professional surveys. Reliability isn't based on how you feel, they ask specific questions on what has broken, how many times have you gone in for service, etc. They ask overlapping questions to try to weed out inconsistency. The opposite of a forum like this.

Their data is also consistent with real statistics like those from IBM and AppleInsider, and frankly what Apple says about the relatively low-rate of keyboard failures.

One discrepency which might be revealing, is that they survey is of actual owners. So the high Apple prices have been somewhat filtered out of satisfaction -- meaning Apple owners decided the price was acceptable, unlike many posters here who have not. I still think a lot of the hate directed at Apple is price-related with the MBP's.

 

[09872738]

One discrepency which might be revealing, is that they survey is of actual owners.

Also, most interesting question is: how many of the surveyed users got Macbooks 2016+ and Macbooks up to and including 2015?
The MBP up to 2015 enjoys a reputation - to this very day - of being the best notebook ever produced. And it certainly is a strong contender there.

II still think a lot of the hate directed at Apple is price-related with the MBP's.

Agreed - but justifiably so. A 2800 currency unit MBP with 256 GB storage? 480 bucks for a middle tier graphics adapter that should be standard?
About 500 for an UPGRADE from 500 G to 1 TB and don't even ask about 2/4 TB. Apple went from premium to totally nuts. They glue everything down to force the customer to surrender to their crazy prices. There are other issues as well (Nvidia feud, including denying drivers, very likely on purpose. Apple displays extremely disgusting behaviour on the verge of market power abuse), but those are probably the major ones

Very customer hostile indeed. If you slap your customers in the face, don't be surprised if they don't love you for it

 

[Martyimac]

Also, most interesting question is: how many of the surveyed users got Macbooks 2016+ and Macbooks up to and including 2015?
The MBP up to 2015 enjoy a reputation - to this very day - of being the best notebook ever produced. And it certainly is a strong contender there.

THIS ⌃ My granddaughter needed her first computer and her immediate local family had opted for a Mac. I gifted her my very lightly used 2015 13" rMBP because of the reputation of the pre '16 MBP's. Didn't want her or the local family to have to deal with all the pervading issues of the post 15 machines.

 

[Mendota]

I have to say reading MacRumors over the last couple years makes me think Apple users are actually less tolerant. The vitrol on this site is rampant.

Also, Consumer Reports does professional surveys. Reliability isn't based on how you feel, they ask specific questions on what has broken, how many times have you gone in for service, etc. They ask overlapping questions to try to weed out inconsistency. The opposite of a forum like this.

Their data is also consistent with real statistics like those from IBM and AppleInsider, and frankly what Apple says about the relatively low-rate of keyboard failures.

One discrepency which might be revealing, is that they survey is of actual owners. So the high Apple prices have been somewhat filtered out of satisfaction -- meaning Apple owners decided the price was acceptable, unlike many posters here who have not. I still think a lot of the hate directed at Apple is price-related with the MBP's.

I can't take Apple Insider ever as an unbiased source... As I have said I have received the surveys and they are not that technical. They are more about customer satisfaction. And I have observed with my own eyes on many occasions Apple fans claiming Mac is the best even after having issues. I first became aware during the start of the gpu fiasco.

 

[maflynn]

Posted this in another thread, but seems like it belongs here, especially now that we've hit 100 pages!

No question that apple has great customer service, they are and continue to be the best in the industry. The problem as I see it, is not that they won't fix the laptops, but they've been rolling out laptops that been failing too often. The design of the keyboard, the flexible cable, the screen coating coming off. Yes, apple fixes those, but I would rather not have to send my laptop in (sometimes multiple times) to repair it. I'd rather get a laptop that just works as they say.

For me, its about value. Is it worth spending almost 2.5 to 4.5k for a laptop. Customer service certainly plays into the decision, but overall am I getting value for the high priced or would I be better served with another product.

 

[shaunp]

Posted this in another thread, but seems like it belongs here, especially now that we've hit 100 pages!

From Consumer Reports 2018 Winter Survey of 36,919 laptop owners.

View attachment 839760​

I don't buy that. I've had 4 MBP's, 2 x 13" (unibody design, not retina) and 2 x 15" (1 2011 Unibody, 1 2012 rMBP) and of these both of the 15" models had issues with GPU's which at the time Apple avoided fixing and instead tried to point the finger at me - perhaps I'd bough the wrong product, I'm holding it wrong. Both were fixed by independent resellers without question and later both turned out to be known issues with an official repair program. Then theirs the current MBP now on it's 4th generation of that dodgy keyboard, and again with a repair program. Sorry I just don't get how 100% of Apple laptop owners, according to this survey, are totally satisfied. It seems to me like the survey doesn't represent a very broad pool of users and isn't typical of real world.

 

[PaladinGuy]

I also think that some of those who just want to ignore or deny the keyboard issues don’t type very much or are very slow at typing. If either of those is the case, you probably don’t have much issue with it.

Before someone mentions it, I know there is a group of people that say they love the butterfly keyboards. Can’t argue with that. I didn’t detest the feel of them. I didn’t love it, but I could have adjusted to it. As I’ve read elsewhere, the issue I had was almost entirely about their reliability.

As far as CR, I don’t completely dismiss it. However, I’ve read that people tend to give favorable reviews of high priced items, in order to justify the amount they spent to themselves.

 

[MBAir2010]

not only my personal experience but this company has become very complacent and careless in the last couple of years just by reading these posts and hearing peoples experiences with failed support. While visiting their stores, i have over heard sales staff advice users who have menial problems are told to replace their macbooks, iphones and other devices. I still do not understand the 99$ files exchange, why that price?

 

[jaduff46]

No question that apple has great customer service, they are and continue to be the best in the industry. The problem as I see it, is not that they won't fix the laptops, but they've been rolling out laptops that been failing too often. The design of the keyboard, the flexible cable, the screen coating coming off. Yes, apple fixes those, but I would rather not have to send my laptop in (sometimes multiple times) to repair it. I'd rather get a laptop that just works as they say.

For me, its about value. Is it worth spending almost 2.5 to 4.5k for a laptop. Customer service certainly plays into the decision, but overall am I getting value for the high priced or would I be better served with another product.

Late to the party, but have been following the thread for awhile. Have been an Apple fan for 30 years, both in terms of products and the stock which has treated me well. As noted by others, the customer service for me has been good. I am, however, going to move on with a new laptop.

Was hoping that the 2018/2019 MBP would be appealing, but am now looking at a Lenovo. Seems to give more bang for the buck and I like the 14” screen and weight of the Carbon. The keyboards have been fabulous for years going back to IBM.

Concerns in moving are the photo library and iTunes music collection, neither of which are more than 1,000 items. Also would like to drive a 4K monitor for the photography hobby and be able to dual boot into one of the Linux distros. Don’t think I really need MS Office since Google Docs and Google sheets should suffice.

Probably move in the next 2-3 months.

Hope I haven’t hijacked the thread.

 

[agaskew]

I don't buy that. I've had 4 MBP's, 2 x 13" (unibody design, not retina) and 2 x 15" (1 2011 Unibody, 1 2012 rMBP) and of these both of the 15" models had issues with GPU's which at the time Apple avoided fixing and instead tried to point the finger at me - perhaps I'd bough the wrong product, I'm holding it wrong. Both were fixed by independent resellers without question and later both turned out to be known issues with an official repair program. Then theirs the current MBP now on it's 4th generation of that dodgy keyboard, and again with a repair program. Sorry I just don't get how 100% of Apple laptop owners, according to this survey, are totally satisfied. It seems to me like the survey doesn't represent a very broad pool of users and isn't typical of real world.

This 100% rating may appear odd, but we are all technical people, discussing this stuff on a computer forum (over-generalising but hopefully makes sense). The average consumer may see laptops, phones, tablets and so on simply as commodity items, which is what Apple want. If you compare Apple's service to that market versus some of the other offerings, the rating will be higher - just the fact that there is a branded store with a "Genuis" bar counts. I can't book any kind of appointment with Lenovo or Dell.
That type of consumer mayalso be less able to detect when they're being bullsh*tted and more prone to accepting what they are told. Not defending this, just saying.
Plus there is the social snobbery factor, where Apple is seen as a lifestyle and set of products to aspire to, because its more expensive and the perception is that the quality is therefore higher.

 

[grmlin]

@jaduff46 4K in Windows works well these days (with Win 10). Some older applications may look blurry, but the scaling itself works fine.
There is also iTunes for Windows, so this shouldn't be a problem I think?

 

[MBAir2010]

Concerns in moving are the photo library and iTunes music collection, neither of which are more than 1,000 items. Also would like to drive a 4K monitor for the photography hobby and be able to dual boot into one of the Linux distros. .

when i jumped ship, i purchased a seagate external HD which worked with the macmini and dell xps with formatting the drive, saved all my music and photos through the drive and imported what i needed on the Dell xps. The music swap was okay except for Itunes seems to code files were the artist are unknown in some albums, luckily other music apps (i use foobar) can delete each itunes infested "tag" from an album or artist file for easier browsing and organization. there is a great windows 10 app for ipods that also performs this task. The photos are mostly jpeg which transfered without any problem at all. If this worked in windows i'm sure Linux has a better pattern.
I hope this helps!

 

[maflynn]

4K in Windows works well these days (with Win 10).

I bought a Razer 15" with FHD screen last year and was a bit unhappy at the resolution coming from a retina screen. I returned it and long story short, ended up buying the 4k Thinkpad and its been a great machine since. I love the 4k screen, I get so much screen real estate and the scaling is fine. There is the odd app or two that shows tiny icons but that's a rarity.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

I bought a Razer 15" with FHD screen last year and was a bit unhappy at the resolution coming from a retina screen. I returned it and long story short, ended up buying the 4k Thinkpad and its been a great machine since. I love the 4k screen, I get so much screen real estate and the scaling is fine. There is the odd app or two that shows tiny icons but that's a rarity.

Yeah if you work with legacy apps it can become a bit of an issue but most modern apps run it just fine. Regarding 4K screens just make sure you LG IPS 4k screens those are some really good quality ones.

I ain't sure about those OLED panels that have been recently announced in Computex.. I wouldn't bite until there's further analysis on it.

 

[maflynn]

I ain't sure about those OLED panels

I'm not sold on OLED, I remember dealing with burn in with CRTs, I really don't want to revisit those days, LOL I'm happy with the current display panels.

 

[grmlin]

If I choose to leave macOS behind (which still is a possibility), I'll definitely consider the X1 E with an OLED. With extra warranty it shouldn't be a problem. Well, as longs as they don't exclude burn in as a valid warranty case lol