Yes if you are going to seal it up, you need to make it reliable. At least with the Surface products being used for art, Microsoft has a reason beyond making money, to manufacture them as they do. The design is light and makes a wonderful painting and sketching experience.
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Yes if you are going to seal it up, you need to make it reliable. At least with the Surface products being used for art, Microsoft has a reason beyond making money, to manufacture them as they do. The design is light and makes a wonderful painting and sketching experience.
The Surface Book and the Surface Book 2 are unfortunately not as reliable. I am not talking about hardware failures. Of course I don't have the failure rates for that. I speak about the software. Among the issues that have plagued this computer from the beginning, are:
- Problems installing Firmware Updates
- Standby issues, especially when waking up
- Issues with performance when in recommended power setting. A reboot mostly helps
- Some times the auto brightness stops working (workaround exists but sucks)
- After using the tablet alone and connecting it back to its base, sometimes the graphic driver (Intel card) will not update the display correctly, and white frames of windows will remain visible, until you log off and then back on
- Sometimes and for no reason at all BitLocker will go into recovery mode, even if there hasn't been any change in the computer's UEFI settings or any Windows Updates
- Sometimes WiFi performance will drop and only a reconnect helps
- The Mouse pointer will behave erratic when the device is on battery, unless pinch to zoom is disabled in the trackpad settings or the user choose the better performance power mode.
Well if the Firmware didn't install correctly that could explain much. I have four Surface devices and I have not had any issues such as you describe. Bitlocker has never been an issues. I never use auto brightness so I can't speak to that. It would appear that you need to do a reset and make sure to update correctly. At any rate software issues can be corrected without costing money, Apple's hardware issues are another matter. You are trying very hard to make Microsoft look bad in order to make Apple look better... Not really going to work. Microsoft doesn't have to have six different repair programs in place for their Surface products.
I am not referring to issues that plagued one device. I have seen these issues in many surface Books. I am not trying to prove anything. I have made my choices and so do others too. Only personal experiences can form a strong opinion about a topic. My experiences with Surface Books have been mostly negative. The Surface Pro on the other hand has been working really great for me and many colleagues of mine (at least 150 people I work with). I was just trying to say that all devices have issues. It doesn’t matter if they are hardware or software.
Even given all these issues that you have had, while the rest of us have not, you do realize that Surface devices aren't the only option for Windows laptops, right?
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Many Surface Books? How many have you actually had contact with? In this very thread there have been multiple reports on people using Surface Books without issues. And your post pointed to your own personal issues, so I am a bit confused. Yes any device can have issues, but Apple's are major.
Same bought a Surface Book in 2016, never been any issue at all. My 15 year old daughter has been using it for over 12 months. I only look at it a couple of times year, just to check setting's or any third party updates. Looked it before I left to re-join my primary eng project, 10-15 minutes tops...
I would certainly purchase another Surface device as long as it met my needs. Outside of forums I don't know anyone who's had a major issue with Surface, equally no doubt there are problematic units. IMO Surface is a good premium brand with decent support, however if you don't like Windows, or cant get on with the OS, or don't need additional flexibility a touchscreen brings there's likely better options out there.
Q-6
I know plenty who have had issue with the Butterfly Keyboard's and failing dGPU's, nor are either limited to a few problematic units. My own Mac's (personal use) have suffered batteries swelling, image retention, jamming keyboard, failing USB C ports due to poor retention, blown speakers. Professionally worse...
Q-6
I'm not sure what your point is. There are lots of people who have no issues with their MacBook Pros too.
If you check out the links below (and do some quick digging elsewhere), I'm sure you'll find people reporting a host of major issues with their PC laptops:
https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/bd-p/XPS
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-X-Series-Laptops/bd-p/tp02_en
http://www.surfaceforums.net/categories/microsoft-surface-forum.4/
No company is perfect, and there's definitely room for Apple to improve on multiple fronts, but I feel like some of the arguments in this thread have become rather repetitive, imbalanced and overly biased against Apple. Especially considering this is a MacBook Pro forum.
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Having had a top line XPS 15 9570 for 9 months, I'm changing jobs and it's going back to my old employer. Can't say I'm too sorry to see it go, its plenty fast and the 4k screen is nice, yes you can swap components and repaste etc, but there's been a succession of annoyances, for example:
I had use of a Surface Book recently and that was clearly built far better than the XPS.
Not sure what's next. I cannot work with MacOS for various reasons. Maybe it's time to look at Thinkpads...
- BIOS updates introducing mad fan behaviour, throttling the GPU and breaking sleep
- Audio problems, specifically the poor drivers and software implementation for the built in audio, for example the inability to reliably turn off the surround sound emulation
- Using it with the TB16 dock - this dock should be set on fire as it's so flaky
I had use of a Surface Book recently and that was clearly built far better than the XPS.
Not sure what's next. I cannot work with MacOS for various reasons. Maybe it's time to look at Thinkpads...
Nothing is perfect, but I think you can do the best you can with your money and/or setting yourself up for success. That's why I consider value for my money, do I want to spend anywhere along the lines of 4,600 dollars for a laptop with a poor history with the keyboard (among other headaches) or do I want to spend half that for a laptop that has largely shown itself not to have design flaws, though defects can happen.
Operating system preferences, integration into the ecosystem are factors to be sure and for many people they do not want to leave the ecosystem because they enjoy working in it, and I can respect that. That all comes back to value, those people do find value in spending the money, heck, I did too. My opinions changed with flexgate, T2 bridge crashes, and the continued issues with keyboard, but then my workflow and needs transition nicely over to windows and is actually more efficient in windows due to my job requirements.
Many people have said the grass is not greener on other side in this thread, and I agree, but with apple marketing itself as a premium product you need to ask yourself are you getting a premium experience? Some will say yes, some will say no.
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Cool topic, I understand many reasons from who is upset about Apple.
In my experience, I bought a MBP18 for the very first time. I was a Windows user for my whole life.
I was.
I love MacOS but Windows 10 is a pretty solid operating system as well.
I want to point out the quality of MacBook materials. I used to work on a Dell XPS machine, I owned 3 different models. The quality, compared to Mac is ridiculous.
The hinges are so week that after few months they become loose as hell. A couple of colleagues has got a huuuuge play.
Same story for the plastics materials, like palm rest and keyboard.. discolored, weared... really ugly.
If one of the best in class windows machine is poor like that I can’t imagine other manufacturers
In my experience, I bought a MBP18 for the very first time. I was a Windows user for my whole life.
I was.
I love MacOS but Windows 10 is a pretty solid operating system as well.
I want to point out the quality of MacBook materials. I used to work on a Dell XPS machine, I owned 3 different models. The quality, compared to Mac is ridiculous.
The hinges are so week that after few months they become loose as hell. A couple of colleagues has got a huuuuge play.
Same story for the plastics materials, like palm rest and keyboard.. discolored, weared... really ugly.
If one of the best in class windows machine is poor like that I can’t imagine other manufacturers
I wanted to write yesterday and answer to one post regarding the many choices Windows users have. The thing is, that for me, build quality is of high importance, so there is only one choice when thinking about Windows, namely the Surface product line, built by Microsoft, that offers great quality. I don't even want to start thinking about all the Dells and the Thinkpads of this world. They might be cheaper, and might also be really good computers, but their design is mostly uninspiring, and the quality of materials used not the best possible. Add to that the bloatware they add to their Windows installations..Thank you, but no thank you.
I used to be very upset about Apple and I sold everything 4 years ago. I went back to Windows and used Windows devices till the end of this February. It was a great lesson for me to become better in understanding what I have and maybe appreciate it more. I came back to Apple three months ago and while there are still things that upset me, the issues I have here pale compared to the situation in Windows. I am not planning to go back to Windows any time soon, unless Apple decides to stop selling Macs..
I will continue though to use Windows Servers and a windows laptop (given from my company), as this is my job...
I used to be very upset about Apple and I sold everything 4 years ago. I went back to Windows and used Windows devices till the end of this February. It was a great lesson for me to become better in understanding what I have and maybe appreciate it more. I came back to Apple three months ago and while there are still things that upset me, the issues I have here pale compared to the situation in Windows. I am not planning to go back to Windows any time soon, unless Apple decides to stop selling Macs..
I will continue though to use Windows Servers and a windows laptop (given from my company), as this is my job...
I’ve used a dell xps at work for the past few months. It’s fine. I just miss macOS is all. I like having both OSs on board with macOS being central. Luckily my firm accommodates me though they wouldn’t for everyone.
Most likely I’ll upgrade to what ever this 16” mbp is supposed to be. Apple has sinned no doubt. But so has MS and much worse. If only MS hadn’t given up in mobile and holding almost all the puzzle pieces at that. Frankly heads should be rolling at MS but they’re content to celebrate what they have (same with Apple really). Oh well.
I understand the appeal of surface devices as well as understand the frustration of some users of apple’s decisions but I’m hooked on macOS.
Most likely I’ll upgrade to what ever this 16” mbp is supposed to be. Apple has sinned no doubt. But so has MS and much worse. If only MS hadn’t given up in mobile and holding almost all the puzzle pieces at that. Frankly heads should be rolling at MS but they’re content to celebrate what they have (same with Apple really). Oh well.
I understand the appeal of surface devices as well as understand the frustration of some users of apple’s decisions but I’m hooked on macOS.
Yes there are sometimes issues with any device. And yes forums often are more likely to have posts from unhappy customers... But the issue with Apple is their refusal to make right their mistakes unless lawsuits and bad press come into play. You would feel very differently if you were one of those people that Apple charged $700 plus for a issue that they were all to aware of. Apple apparently tells their genius employees to pretend like they haven't heard of the issues, or blaming the customer, when they know very well that they are at fault for the poor design. On top of this, they continue to replace parts with other faulty parts and charge these ridicules prices
The expectations are higher for Apple because of the premium price people pay.
My problem is less with the complaints and criticisms of Apple and more with double standards in this thread. Like the one in your post where you minimize @petvas SurfaceBook issues because “In this very thread there have been multiple reports on people using Surface Books without issues. And your post pointed to your own personal issues... Apple’s issues are major”
The rose colored PC glasses some people in here are wearing becomes especially apparent when discussing Surface products, which are often equally as pricey and non user upgradable as MacBooks
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They have said they will replace the keyboard though, so what is your current issue exactly?
I had a look at a $4000 HP Zbook the other day and in no way was it superior to the MBP. The screen was terrible, weighed about 1kg more, and had polished edges that had scratched within a week [poor design].
But yes I have high expectations of Apple, and in my experience, they have delivered. For others not so much apparently.
I would like a better GPU or the Vega as standard, but everything else seems fine to me in the 2019 models.
At the end of the day it's a personal choice and it should be respected. Nothing is perfect. I think that everyone agrees that the Macbook should never had these keyboard issues. The same applies to any device out there that costs a lot of money, like the Surface computers.
Totally agree. Some on here seem to have a vendetta against Apple. They are not perfect and have screwed the keyboard (but I have not experienced it). It is also easy to find issues with countless other manufacturers and computers.
But I must add that in my personal experience of all the different manufacturers, Apple have been the best by far in terms of service and relatability, usability and the ecosystem which is why I have decided to stay.
Recently Upgraded from an ancient 17 inch MacBook Pro from 2010 (the thing just wouldn't break) to a 2018 MacBook Pro 15 inch with Touch Bar and my experience has been really satisfying. I love the way the keys feel, the trackpad is huge, the battery life is great, and the best feature: the screen! My god! It's not the resolution I love but has anyone noticed how well you can use it outdoors in full sunlight? especially with polarized sunglasses on it's amazing how well characters just pop out and how readable it is. The screen actually reads better than my iPhone. The Touch Bar is great too once you get used to it, although you don't have to use it, and just having 4 USB C/Thunderbolt 3 ports is actually an advantage! It's the most versatile port there is. The only pet peeve I have is not being able to exchange the PCIe SSD yourself. (would've popped in a 2TB Samsung 970 EVO for only €350,-) but I'm definitely not jumping ship!
It is more than that, however. The 2015 macbook pro had a perfect keyboard. It was tough. You could hold it by one corner. It had magsafe, it had great speakers, and it had great battery life. For its time, it was right in line with equivalent windows laptops. I priced it out and it came (including the SSD) to about $250 more than an XPS Dell.
Now, however, they can't win on processor--they are too thin and get throttled almost immediately. They can't win on RAM, they are already behind and it can't be upgraded. They can't win on GPU--even if you buy the best one they have it will get smoked day 1 by the new Nvidias. They took away magsafe. They took away the great keyboard. They made the trackpad too big. And they made it uselessly thin, thus limiting the battery life.
Even after all of that, if they lowered the price $300 or so, then at least it would be a superior product at that price. Instead they have raised the price.
Listen, I LOVE Mac OS. I just finally quit trying to get it on a laptop and built my own Mac Pro while waiting for the real Mac Pro. For a while I tried to make an iPad work, but now I gave that up and went with with a Surface Pro. I have missed no beats. In fact, it is my go to computer at this point.
Most of us would LOVE to go back to having only Apple, but I am not a sucker. I refuse to be a sucker. And the level of profit on these things--when they are behind on specs from day one? I would have to be among the ones born every minute according to PT Barnum.
Windows 10 is actually pretty good. Mac should understand that. Is it as good as Mac is on a software level? Not yet, but every build gets closer. And like I, and others, have said. FOR US the build quality of the Surface line is every bit as good as Apple.
It’s still a personal choice. I understand what you are saying. For my needs the MacBook Pro is the best laptop, despite its issues. I don’t care about MagSafe anymore. I used to do that, but after using the MacBook Pro and seeing the benefits of the thin design and the Thunderbolt 3 ports, I understand why there was no place for MagSafe. The keyboard is something I really like. I know that many disagree and that’s ok. As I wrote, it’s personal choice.