Anyone else abandoning ship?

[09872738]

Most of us would LOVE to go back to having only Apple, but I am not a sucker. I refuse to be a sucker. And the level of profit on these things--when they are behind on specs from day one?

Very true. And for above mentioned 2 TB SSD at 350 - Apple is asking 1200/1400 (upgrade from 512/256). So approx 4x, for just the upgrade. No comment
They deny customers Nvidia drivers. In an ideal world they'd face at least an investigation for market power abuse.

I also love macOS and their machines are by and large impressive, but how they act as a company and treat their customers just repels me

 

[lcseds]

It is more than that, however. The 2015 macbook pro had a perfect keyboard. It was tough. You could hold it by one corner. It had magsafe, it had great speakers, and it had great battery life. For its time, it was right in line with equivalent windows laptops. I priced it out and it came (including the SSD) to about $250 more than an XPS Dell.

Now, however, they can't win on processor--they are too thin and get throttled almost immediately. They can't win on RAM, they are already behind and it can't be upgraded. They can't win on GPU--even if you buy the best one they have it will get smoked day 1 by the new Nvidias. They took away magsafe. They took away the great keyboard. They made the trackpad too big. And they made it uselessly thin, thus limiting the battery life.

Even after all of that, if they lowered the price $300 or so, then at least it would be a superior product at that price. Instead they have raised the price.

Listen, I LOVE Mac OS. I just finally quit trying to get it on a laptop and built my own Mac Pro while waiting for the real Mac Pro. For a while I tried to make an iPad work, but now I gave that up and went with with a Surface Pro. I have missed no beats. In fact, it is my go to computer at this point.

Most of us would LOVE to go back to having only Apple, but I am not a sucker. I refuse to be a sucker. And the level of profit on these things--when they are behind on specs from day one? I would have to be among the ones born every minute according to PT Barnum.

Windows 10 is actually pretty good. Mac should understand that. Is it as good as Mac is on a software level? Not yet, but every build gets closer. And like I, and others, have said. FOR US the build quality of the Surface line is every bit as good as Apple.

Beautifully stated. Big applause.

 

[Mendota]

My problem is less with the complaints and criticisms of Apple and more with double standards in this thread. Like the one in your post where you minimize @petvas SurfaceBook issues because “In this very thread there have been multiple reports on people using Surface Books without issues. And your post pointed to your own personal issues... Apple’s issues are major”

The rose colored PC glasses some people in here are wearing becomes especially apparent when discussing Surface products, which are often equally as pricey and non user upgradable as MacBooks

My glasses are perfectly clear. In fact when I purchased my Surface Book, the lower half battery had an issue charging. I called Microsoft and explained. They apologized telling me that this was not the experience they wanted me to have. They then sent me a two day delivery of a new device. I swapped the bottom part. And that was that. I contrast that with my niece who had the stage light issue. She went to the genius bar and sure enough they accused her of damaging it. She needed it for school, there was no time for argument and my brother in law paid to have it fixed. They hadn't bought the extended Apple care because Apple was a premium brand... You see this kind of thing should not happen.
[doublepost=1559523450][/doublepost]

Very true. And for above mentioned 2 TB SSD at 350 - Apple is asking 1200/1400 (upgrade from 512/256). So approx 4x, for just the upgrade. No comment
They deny customers Nvidia drivers. In an ideal world they'd face at least an investigation for market power abuse.

I also love macOS and their machines are by and large impressive, but how they act as a company and treat their customers just repels me

I also love macOS and their machines are by and large impressive, but how they act as a company and treat their customers just repels me

And that is the point that causes me to feel about Apple the way that I do. Hey I use their products. I buy the iPads new, but I have to research and pay extra (Apple care plus) to prevent being burned. My Sonos sound system prefers IOS and I enjoy many of the graphic and sketching programs, but I don't trust Apple.

 

[CE3]

My glasses are perfectly clear. In fact when I purchased my Surface Book, the lower half battery had an issue charging. I called Microsoft and explained. They apologized telling me that this was not the experience they wanted me to have. They then sent me a two day delivery of a new device. I swapped the bottom part. And that was that. I contrast that with my niece who had the stage light issue. She went to the genius bar and sure enough they accused her of damaging it. She needed it for school, there was no time for argument and my brother in law paid to have it fixed. They hadn't bought the extended Apple care because Apple was a premium brand... You see this kind of thing should not happen.

I get it.

Microsoft products and support = excellent
Apple products and support = bad

Your bias is perfectly clear.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I get it.

Microsoft products and support = excellent
Apple products and support = bad

Your bias is perfectly clear.

All this discussion on the last couple of pages, and this is all you get out of it? Sad, really. We actually really have historically LOVED Apple. Mendota included.

 

[PhoneI]

I get that for the consumer, but what about their own internal use. It just doesn't make sense.
[doublepost=1559262977][/doublepost]

Accounting software, HR, business intelligence, etc, etc, etc.

Which ones?

 

[CE3]

All this discussion on the last couple of pages, and this is all you get out of it? Sad, really. We actually really have historically LOVED Apple. Mendota included.

No, that’s what I got from the post I quoted.

You and Mendota were also rather critical and dismissive of another poster who reported having multiple issues with multiple SurfaceBooks, apparently because no one else in this thread has had the same experiences with their Surface products. It feels like a double standard to me and does nothing to support your legitimate criticisms of Apple.

 

[ipponrg]

I'm fairly neutral, and I'm not sure what the history is of those Surface books, but there are legitimate criticisms of Apple.

What I wouldn't give for Apple to license out their OS so that I can run it on non Apple hardware. The MBPs generally have been pretty decent for me, but man when there are problems it becomes very annoying to troubleshoot. With my MBPs, I generally do lots of coding for work, VMs, video editing in FCP X, sometimes producing music in Logic/Ableton, and doing other Unix like work for servers and what not.

For hardware, the keys on the 2015+ MBPs are fairly brittle. My 2016 MBP that I am typing on right now is luckily working fine. I have been meticulously careful with it even though when I first powered it on, it had the video card overheating screen (pink graphics). It hasn't since occurred the day I booted it up, so guessing it was a fluke. My work 2015 MBP has one of the keys broken. I had it replaced with my current 2018 MBP, but my 2018 MBP is experiencing some double presses now on some keys. The "N" button on the keys is starting to chip away for some reason. For all 2016+ MBPs that I've had, I've wished for USB-A ports and magsafe, even in work settings. USB-C is still not mainstream enough ... yet. The 2010 MBP is built like a tank except Apple is not supporting it anymore.

For software, I'm rarely if ever using any of Apple's first party apps aside from FCP/Logic, which arguably didn't start as first party. They are just atrocious. For music, I do use iTunes to sort my music but ONLY because I need iTunes to upload/sync with my iPhone. Otherwise, I would've ditched it. The MacOS iTunes sucks when you try to connect to a NAS library. Windows support for NAS library is much better and faster. I could fix the MacOS through terminal mounting, but I found it annoying that I had to do that.

Here is what I do like about Microsoft as of late. They are VERY embracing of an open world, maybe due to their failures on trying to be like Apple. Their recent public announcements from allowing Github private repos to openly publishing games to other platforms makes me like their stance a lot more than Apple. Sure, they might not scream profits for shareholders, but I do feel, they are enticing me more and more everyday to figure out solutions to jump ship.

The only real reason that a lot of us are still using Macs today is because of MacOS integration with unix. At the time that many of us switched from Microsoft/Linux, Apple also opened the doors to x86 development. Since Microsoft started including their own VM shell of Unix/Linux and due to the lack of direction from a MacOS productivity front, it's starting to make many of us look back.

Crossing my fingers to see what happens at WWDC.

 

[SDColorado]

The Surface Book and the Surface Book 2 are unfortunately not as reliable. I am not talking about hardware failures. Of course I don't have the failure rates for that. I speak about the software. Among the issues that have plagued this computer from the beginning, are:

• Problems installing Firmware Updates
• Standby issues, especially when waking up
• Issues with performance when in recommended power setting. A reboot mostly helps
• Some times the auto brightness stops working (workaround exists but sucks)
• After using the tablet alone and connecting it back to its base, sometimes the graphic driver (Intel card) will not update the display correctly, and white frames of windows will remain visible, until you log off and then back on
• Sometimes and for no reason at all BitLocker will go into recovery mode, even if there hasn't been any change in the computer's UEFI settings or any Windows Updates
• Sometimes WiFi performance will drop and only a reconnect helps
• The Mouse pointer will behave erratic when the device is on battery, unless pinch to zoom is disabled in the trackpad settings or the user choose the better performance power mode.

I am not saying that everyone is facing these issues, but I have experienced them in more than one Surface Book. For a device priced as high as a Macbook this is just unacceptable. This was one of the reasons I got tired of Microsoft and came back to Apple. All these issues just do not exist when using a MacBook.

Someone is spending too much time on Reddit? Have had many many issues with my MBP, have not had any of the issues you describe with my Surface Pro

 

[CE3]

Have had many many issues with my MBP

Spending a little too much time on MacRumors?

I’ve experienced zero hardware issues with the MacBook Pros I’ve owned, so I don’t believe you!

/s

 

[Mendota]

Spending a little too much time on MacRumors?

I’ve experienced zero hardware issues with the MacBook Pros I’ve owned, so I don’t believe you!

/s

I am genuinely happy for you that things are working out. I don't wish anyone bad luck. However it is because you haven't had issues is why you feel so defensive of Apple. As I stated earlier if you had been the person presented with the $700 bill and accused of breaking a device, when you know that you have been careful... I think you would feel differently. My niece was an Apple fan, but she feels differently now and so does Dad $700 bucks later. He is now working to get a refund now that Apple has finally admitted to the Stage Light issue.

 

[petvas]

I think that everyone here is judging based on his/her experience so far with a company. Not everyone is having issues with Apple and the same applies to other companies too.

 

[madfry]

If it involves electronics, you will find that some will have issues, and some will have the perfect device.

There is a reason why the term "lemons" are bandied around you know.

And for every "I have a bad experience with Apple," you will find an equal "I have a very bad experience with Microsoft." Does that invalidate you having a good machine regardless of the logo? No.

But like religion, it seems that once someone have crossed over, they had to come back and preach their... Salvation for lack of a better word. So if you found your salvation using Surface, go ahead.

What I really don't like is the preaching tone I could see all over the place. You converted. Fine. But cut it out with the "I had problems with Mac, and you will too" tone and join the appropriate forum.

 

[Mendota]

If it involves electronics, you will find that some will have issues, and some will have the perfect device.

There is a reason why the term "lemons" are bandied around you know.

And for every "I have a bad experience with Apple," you will find an equal "I have a very bad experience with Microsoft." Does that invalidate you having a good machine regardless of the logo? No.

But like religion, it seems that once someone have crossed over, they had to come back and preach their... Salvation for lack of a better word. So if you found your salvation using Surface, go ahead.

What I really don't like is the preaching tone I could see all over the place. You converted. Fine. But cut it out with the "I had problems with Mac, and you will too" tone and join the appropriate forum.

Last I checked, this thread was titled "Anyone Else Abandoning Ship?" So I think this is the appropriate place. Or do you mean that because it is MacRumors, there can't be any criticism of Apple? Heck I am a member of the Windows 10 forum and we criticize Microsoft all the time. We like Windows, but we all have things we don't care for. And we complain (bitterly sometimes) to Microsoft and guess what? They make changes. As an example, the update process is a lot better now.

Do you think Apple would have fixed these issues (six different repair programs) if no one complained? Maybe if it is brought to Apple's attention that there are threads like this in a place like MacRumors, it might give them the wake up call they need. And last but not least, it is not your place to come here and tell us "to cut out anything". You are not the forum police or anyone's parent.

 

[Howard2k]

For software, I'm rarely if ever using any of Apple's first party apps aside from FCP/Logic, which arguably didn't start as first party. They are just atrocious. For music, I do use iTunes to sort my music but ONLY because I need iTunes to upload/sync with my iPhone. Otherwise, I would've ditched it. The MacOS iTunes sucks when you try to connect to a NAS library. Windows support for NAS library is much better and faster. I could fix the MacOS through terminal mounting, but I found it annoying that I had to do that.

I’ve been running off NAS for years. What problems have you been having?

 

[shaunp]

I also think that some of those who just want to ignore or deny the keyboard issues don’t type very much or are very slow at typing. If either of those is the case, you probably don’t have much issue with it.

Before someone mentions it, I know there is a group of people that say they love the butterfly keyboards. Can’t argue with that. I didn’t detest the feel of them. I didn’t love it, but I could have adjusted to it. As I’ve read elsewhere, the issue I had was almost entirely about their reliability.

As far as CR, I don’t completely dismiss it. However, I’ve read that people tend to give favorable reviews of high priced items, in order to justify the amount they spent to themselves.

Keyboards are a very personal thing and preference of the individual plays a big part in their success/failure. I get some will like the butterfly keyboard and, ignoring the reliability issues, it's a product that does divide opinion. What I don't get is why there is no choice with Apple products. The old keyboard was fine, it did the job very well so why remove the choice from customers?

 

[SDColorado]

Spending a little too much time on MacRumors?

I’ve experienced zero hardware issues with the MacBook Pros I’ve owned, so I don’t believe you!

/s

I am not quoting some generic laundry list of issues that reads like a page from Web MD drug side effects.

 

[ipponrg]

I’ve been running off NAS for years. What problems have you been having?

It’s taking a long time to mount and search files. If you hit command K and have Mac mount the drive with library, it’s really slow. My library has several thousand files

I thought I read somewhere it’s due to the mounting protocol (CIFS vs Samba)

 

[shaunp]

Which ones?

Dunno, ask Apple. But they won't be using Pages and Numbers to run their main business functions.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

I think that everyone here is judging based on his/her experience so far with a company. Not everyone is having issues with Apple and the same applies to other companies too.

True, I had to replace my keyboard on my 2017.. 2x times already but my colleague next to me had to do it 0 yet.. (he uses external keyboard outside of meetings maybe that's why)

 

[petvas]

Dunno, ask Apple. But they won't be using Pages and Numbers to run their main business functions.

Of course they aren't. Business use Microsoft Office mainly. Pages and Numbers are good for private use, not for big companies. I am using MS Office in my work but for my private things I use Pages and Numbers.

 

[PaladinGuy]

True, I had to replace my keyboard on my 2017.. 2x times already but my colleague next to me had to do it 0 yet.. (he uses external keyboard outside of meetings maybe that's why)

See, I think two faulty keyboards is just entirely unacceptable. We aren’t talking about the logic board... we’re talking about the KEYBOARD. I mean, come on. That should never break for the VAST majority of people.

A friend of mine is a developer, and his company actually keeps spare MBPs in their office because of the number of issues their keyboards have. They keep spares so they don’t lose productivity while the keyboards are being replaced.

 

[StuKatz1]

Keyboards are a very personal thing and preference of the individual plays a big part in their success/failure. I get some will like the butterfly keyboard and, ignoring the reliability issues, it's a product that does divide opinion. What I don't get is why there is no choice with Apple products. The old keyboard was fine, it did the job very well so why remove the choice from customers?

For exactly the same reason you cannot walk into Rolex, Louis Vuitton or Ferrari and ask them to Frankenstein various products into one that you love, even if it would be the most appropriate.

Because Apple is a lifestyle company making computers and not a computer company with an interest in lifestyle.

 

[tmmacops]

For me it's been the recent Bridge OS Issues that I still encounter today on a 2018 MBA. I went through 3 13" MBP's, and 2 MBA's. No TMB, all were setup like a new system. After a few days to a couple of weeks, just random reboot, no KP, and nothing pointing to an issue. Apple support was useless, and said they haven't had reports of this kind of problem...really? WOW!

As much as I like working on a Mac/MacOS, and the overall workflow I can't rely on it. I'm hopeful the new MBP's just released have this fixed, and haven't really checked on any of the BridgeOS threads. But if they're the same, or nothing has changed, I guess I'll circle back in a year. I'll keep the MBA for some specific tasks that I like using it for, but knowing it could reboot at any moment.

 

[shaunp]

For exactly the same reason you cannot walk into Rolex, Louis Vuitton or Ferrari and ask them to Frankenstein various products into one that you love, even if it would be the most appropriate.

Because Apple is a lifestyle company making computers and not a computer company with an interest in lifestyle.

True, but I can go to Lenovo, Dell, HP and pretty much any brand on the planet except Apple and have a choice. It's not about Frakensteining the product it's about having choice for the customer. Apple tar everything with the same brush and for many that just doesn't work. Plenty have been put off by the butterfly keyboard but if you want to buy apple there is no choice but a butterfly keyboard. Giving your customers a choice between accepting something they don't like or walking away isn't a good idea.