Anyone else abandoning ship?

[Pulprat]

As I type this on my company issued 2017 MBP 15... I backspace to fix the double strikes. I bang harder on the keyboard to get some to type. I constantly have to deal with dongle hell just to do my daily job functions. I don't have the physical keys I need to touch type my way through my job.

I am a HUGE Apple fan. I have been an all in guy for a decade plus. But this is just getting ridiculous. I'm serious considering bouncing off to Linux because M$ is just not an option in my mind. I'm not going back to virus hell. I'm just wondering if I'm alone? Is this part of the plan? Is Apple pushing us to iPad Pros? It just feels like I got a "MacBook Plus" not a "Pro" machine. By that I mean it seems like somebody let a marketing person convince them that they could up sell people out of MacBook with bells and whistles and didn't bother giving a Pro line machine features and function I needed.

Again, I'm not some Windows or Android zealot here to start a flame war. Just a hardcore Apple guy wondering what Apple is thinking these days and if they just aren't that "into" the laptop market anymore?

It’s stories like this that have pushed me away from buying a new Mac. Not sure if you’ve tried Windows lately, but my PC runs more reliably then my iMac. Yes I think I’ve been sucked into an alternate universe! My iMac began slowing down after I upgraded to Mojave. I’m now running the latest version of iOS 10 and the Mac is slightly better. Meanwhile my PC just plugs along. What the heck happened? As far as switching to Linux, Go for it. I’ve never had a problem with Linux and there certainly isn’t a short supply of apps for it. If you are a desktop user I would recommend Linux mint. Otherwise whatever flavour you like. If typing is your thing, you can’t beat the ThinkPad keyboards. Just the unbiassed opinion of anybody who’s ever typed on one including my former fanatic Mac friends.
[doublepost=1563053025][/doublepost]

Same boat, but my laptop needs are modest enough these days (writing mostly) that a 5 year-old MacBook Air is enough, while an iMac 5K does the heavy lifting for occasional graphic design and video work.

I'm not into buying a laptop without a usable keyboard. The ports and lack of MagSafe connector I can begrudgingly live with -- but the keyboard is a dealbreaker. I know plenty of people in real life who have failing or failed butterfly* keyboards, and even when they're working correctly I find them abysmal to type on. And yes, I have used one long enough to "get used to it".

It's sad, because I've been an enthusiastic user of Apple laptops since about 2000. Hoping something changes.

* they call it a butterfly keyboard because it's very thin, very pretty and doesn't live long.

It baffles me that they continue to produce a product that has had so many complaints? I mean the butterfly keyboard of course. Have never use the Touch Bar so I can’t comment on that yet.

 

[woodybrando]

Yeah I returned my 2017 mbp 15 after 2 weeks and bought a mid 2014 mbp 15 and I'm happy I did. There seems to be no end to what was better on the 2014 versus the 2017.

That USB power plug they have sticking out of the 2017 looking like it was designed by Microsoft in 2008, what were they thinking??? Between me and our two dogs, my mag safe gets pulled out 5 times a day. My 2017 would be getting smashed every time a squirrel runs through the yard. Instead of picking up pieces of smashed screen I just pick up the mag safe and plug it back in.

Then there's that cheap keyboard on the 2017. I had used an Acer netbook (remember netbooks...) a couple years before and that $200 netbook keyboard had the exact same cheap feel as the 2017 mbp keyboard. And the 2017 speakers were about as good as the speakers on that netbook too.

I still have 4 dongles sitting in a drawer I come across every now and again and feel grateful that I don't have to use a single dongle on my 2014 which has HDMI, USB 3 and 2 thunderbolt ports.

Plus the 2014 only cost half the price and I found a used one on ebay that had been meticulously cared for and lived it's life in a plastic shell.

But where to go next is a good question. If I can get a video production workflow on Linux I'll head back there. Used it for about a year awhile back but it definitely wasn't making my job easier, hopefully that's changed.

As I type this on my company issued 2017 MBP 15... I backspace to fix the double strikes. I bang harder on the keyboard to get some to type. I constantly have to deal with dongle hell just to do my daily job functions. I don't have the physical keys I need to touch type my way through my job.

I am a HUGE Apple fan. I have been an all in guy for a decade plus. But this is just getting ridiculous. I'm serious considering bouncing off to Linux because M$ is just not an option in my mind. I'm not going back to virus hell. I'm just wondering if I'm alone? Is this part of the plan? Is Apple pushing us to iPad Pros? It just feels like I got a "MacBook Plus" not a "Pro" machine. By that I mean it seems like somebody let a marketing person convince them that they could up sell people out of MacBook with bells and whistles and didn't bother giving a Pro line machine features and function I needed.

Again, I'm not some Windows or Android zealot here to start a flame war. Just a hardcore Apple guy wondering what Apple is thinking these days and if they just aren't that "into" the laptop market anymore?

 

[Robnsn2015]

Agreed
While there were many aspects of Linux that I really liked (and some I didn't), one was the lack of apps. Linux just didn't have the apps I needed, not wanted but needed.

In other news, Research Firms Paint Contrasting Pictures of Apple's Mac Shipments in Q2 2019

I pasted the worldwide and US exhibits together. The US shipments tell a tale as to why Apple is focusing on the Mac lines again. As apple no longer releases specific numbers these are estimates, so we don't know how close but I think its accurate enough to show a significant decline which can be attributed to the bad press from the keyboards, and other issues with the MBP. With the 2019 MBP, I think apple is on course to help right the ship, but the premium pricing may also be impacting sales. There's no ifs ands or buts about it, you get more computer for your dollar with Lenovo, Dell, HP, Asus, etc.

View attachment 847971

But bear in mind that the big 3 (Lenovo, HP, Dell) also offer premium brands and they don't seem to be struggling.

 

[maflynn]

But bear in mind that the big 3 (Lenovo, HP, Dell) also offer premium brands and they don't seem to be struggling.

Nope because those premium brands have some advantages.
1. Price, still cheaper then Apple.
2. Expandability - many (most) of those premium brands allow the consumer to upgrade the ram, storage and replace the battery.
3. Durability, this one aspect where apple imo has fallen down and I wonder if all the negative press from the butterfly keyboard is hurting them. Recent news of recalls hasn't helped them either.

 

[wegster]

It’s stories like this that have pushed me away from buying a new Mac. Not sure if you’ve tried Windows lately, but my PC runs more reliably then my iMac. Yes I think I’ve been sucked into an alternate universe! My iMac began slowing down after I upgraded to Mojave. I’m now running the latest version of iOS 10 and the Mac is slightly better. Meanwhile my PC just plugs along. What the heck happened? As far as switching to Linux, Go for it. I’ve never had a problem with Linux and there certainly isn’t a short supply of apps for it. If you are a desktop user I would recommend Linux mint. Otherwise whatever flavour you like. If typing is your thing, you can’t beat the ThinkPad keyboards. Just the unbiassed opinion of anybody who’s ever typed on one including my former fanatic Mac friends.
[doublepost=1563053025][/doublepost]

It baffles me that they continue to produce a product that has had so many complaints? I mean the butterfly keyboard of course. Have never use the Touch Bar so I can’t comment on that yet.

Not jumping ship, but am 'concerned.'

I couldn't stand anything Apple from early on (had Amigas, far > original Macs and PCs, and then Linux systems) through around after OSX replaced original MacOS, and they started making reasonable laptops. I'd also had a friendly debate where I predicted Apple would be making - a phone. (won that bet 2 years later), so jumped onboard with a v1 iPhone + then waited and bought a core2Duo MBP. Couldn't stand it at first, and there are still some annoyances with OSX, but overall I like the ecosystem of products pretty well (watch, tablets, phone, MacBooks) for my wife and I.

Their MacBook hardware direction, as well as the lack of capability for productivity on the iPad, is what has me most concerned. I've been waiting for 32GB on a MBP (yes, I need it - save that debate for a different thread, please ) for years, and when they finally offer it, I have to take a non-serviceable one-time SSD purchase along with the RAM, a flaky 'thinner is better but it's crap' keyboard, AND the god-awful touch bar. Making everything non-user-serviceable in the name of thin-ness is annoying, but then add on the only path to 'upgrade' is from the start at Apple prices (check 2TB SSD upgrade pricing on current models). I quickly have a $4-5K laptop that can't be upgraded.

Meanwhile, I have a Dell Surfacebook clone at work. I have long despised Windows, to the extent I'd turned down jobs in the past where I'd need to develop for Windows at any point. But - Windows 10, other than it seemingly have two different worlds/personalities (witness 'classic' control panel' vs Windows 8-ish control panels for wireless and other things), generally works, and that Surfacebook clone is pretty convenient as a single travel system, without needing to drag a tablet or a 15" MBP around. And yes, I do actually use the pen, and no it's not while I'm in the middle of typing something as Ive's story goes, but instead when we shift from typical meeting into design discussions and is quite useful then.

Apple - offers no equivalent. iPad including Pro is a nice device, but it's still not laptop replacement, while they don't 'want' to touch-enable a MBP because uhh, 'courage' and nonsense use cases. So sometimes, I indeed do lug my work laptop, my 15" MBP AND my iPad on trips, but more and more - just the convertible touchscreen PC/tablet.

I've run Linux for literally decades now, but in my current role, I can't use it as a primary system, short of as a base to run Windows or macOS VMs on top of. I'd prefer to continue using macOS as my primary OS, but am stuck waiting to see if and when Apple might offer something I actually want again in a MBP or even a competent iPad Pro (which is unlikely to happen w/out macOS on it).

I don't want or need a Touch Bar. I do want touch/pen-enablement, although I could live with a convertible 11-12" with a trackpad I could use a pen on. I would probably still buy a 32GB 15" MBP and use the second for my daily in-office and travel laptop...

I'm hoping mainly for:
1. Stop choosing thin-ness over capability. A keyboard that sometimes works, means sometimes I can't. Fix your stupid keyboard already - I won't buy another MBP until the butterfly nonsense is dead and buried. Adding dongles still pisses me off, but I can live with it if it's logical and not just based on 'we can't possible fit a USB-A connector in our MBP' while MS and Dell manage to on thinner devices.
2. If we're never going to see user-serviceable laptops from Apple again, stop the 'Apple tax' on upgrade costs. I'll pay $3K for a laptop, but not $4-$5K.
3. Do SOMETHING for a true touch/pen/portable productivity solution. Don't care much if it's an iPad Pro running macOS, or a convertible MBP.

Right now, I can hang on another year or so with my 2015MBP to see what develops. I honestly have no idea what happens next, and I also have a fair bit of $ invested in not only Apple hardware, but also software. Letting macOS install on other vendor's laptops could be a solution, but I'm sure Apple won't let their cash-cow profit margins on hardware drop by doing that. I'd stick with Apple for watch and phone, but it's all on them as to what I decide on table and next laptop purchases.

 

[Robnsn2015]

Not jumping ship, but am 'concerned.'

I couldn't stand anything Apple from early on (had Amigas, far > original Macs and PCs, and then Linux systems) through around after OSX replaced original MacOS, and they started making reasonable laptops. I'd also had a friendly debate where I predicted Apple would be making - a phone. (won that bet 2 years later), so jumped onboard with a v1 iPhone + then waited and bought a core2Duo MBP. Couldn't stand it at first, and there are still some annoyances with OSX, but overall I like the ecosystem of products pretty well (watch, tablets, phone, MacBooks) for my wife and I.

Their MacBook hardware direction, as well as the lack of capability for productivity on the iPad, is what has me most concerned. I've been waiting for 32GB on a MBP (yes, I need it - save that debate for a different thread, please ) for years, and when they finally offer it, I have to take a non-serviceable one-time SSD purchase along with the RAM, a flaky 'thinner is better but it's crap' keyboard, AND the god-awful touch bar. Making everything non-user-serviceable in the name of thin-ness is annoying, but then add on the only path to 'upgrade' is from the start at Apple prices (check 2TB SSD upgrade pricing on current models). I quickly have a $4-5K laptop that can't be upgraded.

Meanwhile, I have a Dell Surfacebook clone at work. I have long despised Windows, to the extent I'd turned down jobs in the past where I'd need to develop for Windows at any point. But - Windows 10, other than it seemingly have two different worlds/personalities (witness 'classic' control panel' vs Windows 8-ish control panels for wireless and other things), generally works, and that Surfacebook clone is pretty convenient as a single travel system, without needing to drag a tablet or a 15" MBP around. And yes, I do actually use the pen, and no it's not while I'm in the middle of typing something as Ive's story goes, but instead when we shift from typical meeting into design discussions and is quite useful then.

Apple - offers no equivalent. iPad including Pro is a nice device, but it's still not laptop replacement, while they don't 'want' to touch-enable a MBP because uhh, 'courage' and nonsense use cases. So sometimes, I indeed do lug my work laptop, my 15" MBP AND my iPad on trips, but more and more - just the convertible touchscreen PC/tablet.

I've run Linux for literally decades now, but in my current role, I can't use it as a primary system, short of as a base to run Windows or macOS VMs on top of. I'd prefer to continue using macOS as my primary OS, but am stuck waiting to see if and when Apple might offer something I actually want again in a MBP or even a competent iPad Pro (which is unlikely to happen w/out macOS on it).

I don't want or need a Touch Bar. I do want touch/pen-enablement, although I could live with a convertible 11-12" with a trackpad I could use a pen on. I would probably still buy a 32GB 15" MBP and use the second for my daily in-office and travel laptop...

I'm hoping mainly for:
1. Stop choosing thin-ness over capability. A keyboard that sometimes works, means sometimes I can't. Fix your stupid keyboard already - I won't buy another MBP until the butterfly nonsense is dead and buried. Adding dongles still pisses me off, but I can live with it if it's logical and not just based on 'we can't possible fit a USB-A connector in our MBP' while MS and Dell manage to on thinner devices.
2. If we're never going to see user-serviceable laptops from Apple again, stop the 'Apple tax' on upgrade costs. I'll pay $3K for a laptop, but not $4-$5K.
3. Do SOMETHING for a true touch/pen/portable productivity solution. Don't care much if it's an iPad Pro running macOS, or a convertible MBP.

Right now, I can hang on another year or so with my 2015MBP to see what develops. I honestly have no idea what happens next, and I also have a fair bit of $ invested in not only Apple hardware, but also software. Letting macOS install on other vendor's laptops could be a solution, but I'm sure Apple won't let their cash-cow profit margins on hardware drop by doing that. I'd stick with Apple for watch and phone, but it's all on them as to what I decide on table and next laptop purchases.

This was an excellent post, very informative!

BTW, you can use Windows Subsystem for Linux if you occasionally need Linux. I hear the upcoming version 2 is MUCH improved.

 

[maflynn]

I hear the upcoming version 2 is MUCH improved.

Yes WSL2 is running the actual kernel (in a virtualized environment) as opposed to emulating the API calls to the linux kernel

 

[grmlin]

WSL2 is pretty different compared to WSL1. It's a linux kernel running virtualized on top of the windows kernel... it's much faster than the old version and as it's a full linux, everything should work in it.
But, if you have to interact with it on a file system level, it's can still be slow compared to a native linux.

For example: I tried it and installed one of our web application projects on it, using docker and all the things. It runs very fast and nicely, but accessing the files inside the linux subsystem with my git UI in windows, or my IDE, was REALLY slow and had a big impact on my CPU.

In the end it's amazing progress and it's fantastic that MS goes this route, but it's not there yet. I'll get a new MBP because of this in august.

 

[macnmac]

i would but after seeing the alternatives... there isnt anywhere to go...

 

[wegster]

This was an excellent post, very informative!

BTW, you can use Windows Subsystem for Linux if you occasionally need Linux. I hear the upcoming version 2 is MUCH improved.

Yep, I do use it often when I'm stuck on the Windows laptop, primarily Ubuntu for Windows. Not quite the same as a dual boot or full VM, but realistically speaking, it works well enough for various Linux commands and tools I need. Pretty surprised when they released this, but also even more surprised in that it generally works really well overall.

 

[Robnsn2015]

Yep, I do use it often when I'm stuck on the Windows laptop, primarily Ubuntu for Windows. Not quite the same as a dual boot or full VM, but realistically speaking, it works well enough for various Linux commands and tools I need. Pretty surprised when they released this, but also even more surprised in that it generally works really well overall.

And speaking of VMs, Windows 10 Pro comes with built-in Hyper-V support. That way, you can create full, Linux VM at will.

 

[jerryk]

And speaking of VMs, Windows 10 Pro comes with built-in Hyper-V support. That way, you can create full, Linux VM at will.

Any idea if you can get at Nvidia hardware. I need to install Nvidia CUDA drivers for hardware accelerated ML.

 

[poorcody]

Any idea if you can get at Nvidia hardware. I need to install Nvidia CUDA drivers for hardware accelerated ML.

I know Windows Server can do this, but last I knew it wasn't (yet) possible with Windows 10 Pro...

https://social.technet.microsoft.co...ugh-on-windows-10-hyperv?forum=win10itprovirt

 

[jerryk]

I know Windows Server can do this, but last I knew it wasn't (yet) possible with Windows 10 Pro...

https://social.technet.microsoft.co...ugh-on-windows-10-hyperv?forum=win10itprovirt

Thanks. I guess I keep Ubuntu on the second SSD on my Windows Pro machine.

 

[mspman]

Not jumping ship, but am 'concerned.'

I couldn't stand anything Apple from early on (had Amigas, far > original Macs and PCs, and then Linux systems) through around after OSX replaced original MacOS, and they started making reasonable laptops. I'd also had a friendly debate where I predicted Apple would be making - a phone. (won that bet 2 years later), so jumped onboard with a v1 iPhone + then waited and bought a core2Duo MBP. Couldn't stand it at first, and there are still some annoyances with OSX, but overall I like the ecosystem of products pretty well (watch, tablets, phone, MacBooks) for my wife and I.

Their MacBook hardware direction, as well as the lack of capability for productivity on the iPad, is what has me most concerned. I've been waiting for 32GB on a MBP (yes, I need it - save that debate for a different thread, please ) for years, and when they finally offer it, I have to take a non-serviceable one-time SSD purchase along with the RAM, a flaky 'thinner is better but it's crap' keyboard, AND the god-awful touch bar. Making everything non-user-serviceable in the name of thin-ness is annoying, but then add on the only path to 'upgrade' is from the start at Apple prices (check 2TB SSD upgrade pricing on current models). I quickly have a $4-5K laptop that can't be upgraded.

Meanwhile, I have a Dell Surfacebook clone at work. I have long despised Windows, to the extent I'd turned down jobs in the past where I'd need to develop for Windows at any point. But - Windows 10, other than it seemingly have two different worlds/personalities (witness 'classic' control panel' vs Windows 8-ish control panels for wireless and other things), generally works, and that Surfacebook clone is pretty convenient as a single travel system, without needing to drag a tablet or a 15" MBP around. And yes, I do actually use the pen, and no it's not while I'm in the middle of typing something as Ive's story goes, but instead when we shift from typical meeting into design discussions and is quite useful then.

Apple - offers no equivalent. iPad including Pro is a nice device, but it's still not laptop replacement, while they don't 'want' to touch-enable a MBP because uhh, 'courage' and nonsense use cases. So sometimes, I indeed do lug my work laptop, my 15" MBP AND my iPad on trips, but more and more - just the convertible touchscreen PC/tablet.

I've run Linux for literally decades now, but in my current role, I can't use it as a primary system, short of as a base to run Windows or macOS VMs on top of. I'd prefer to continue using macOS as my primary OS, but am stuck waiting to see if and when Apple might offer something I actually want again in a MBP or even a competent iPad Pro (which is unlikely to happen w/out macOS on it).

I don't want or need a Touch Bar. I do want touch/pen-enablement, although I could live with a convertible 11-12" with a trackpad I could use a pen on. I would probably still buy a 32GB 15" MBP and use the second for my daily in-office and travel laptop...

I'm hoping mainly for:
1. Stop choosing thin-ness over capability. A keyboard that sometimes works, means sometimes I can't. Fix your stupid keyboard already - I won't buy another MBP until the butterfly nonsense is dead and buried. Adding dongles still pisses me off, but I can live with it if it's logical and not just based on 'we can't possible fit a USB-A connector in our MBP' while MS and Dell manage to on thinner devices.
2. If we're never going to see user-serviceable laptops from Apple again, stop the 'Apple tax' on upgrade costs. I'll pay $3K for a laptop, but not $4-$5K.
3. Do SOMETHING for a true touch/pen/portable productivity solution. Don't care much if it's an iPad Pro running macOS, or a convertible MBP.

Right now, I can hang on another year or so with my 2015MBP to see what develops. I honestly have no idea what happens next, and I also have a fair bit of $ invested in not only Apple hardware, but also software. Letting macOS install on other vendor's laptops could be a solution, but I'm sure Apple won't let their cash-cow profit margins on hardware drop by doing that. I'd stick with Apple for watch and phone, but it's all on them as to what I decide on table and next laptop purchases.

I've been buying Dell Precision laptops for a little while now for myself and my employees, and I think that on a cost basis, they are superior to Apple. I always buy the base configuration, and then upgrade the RAM and SSD separately. They can support all the USB accessories my people want (mouse, keyboard, whatever), and the USB-C port handles external monitors and other devices with ease. I personally run Red Hat on mine but others run Fedora, Mint, and ArchLinux. The machine has no problem booting into Kali too, also important. And, the Dell Precisions have been able to support 32Gb of RAM for a few years now, unlike the Apple MBP's. It used to be that us in tech and infosec only bought Apple - now I can't imagine doing my job on an Apple, especially for the money required.

 

[IMBC]

I've been buying Dell Precision laptops for a little while now for myself and my employees, and I think that on a cost basis, they are superior to Apple. I always buy the base configuration, and then upgrade the RAM and SSD separately. They can support all the USB accessories my people want (mouse, keyboard, whatever), and the USB-C port handles external monitors and other devices with ease. I personally run Red Hat on mine but others run Fedora, Mint, and ArchLinux. The machine has no problem booting into Kali too, also important. And, the Dell Precisions have been able to support 32Gb of RAM for a few years now, unlike the Apple MBP's. It used to be that us in tech and infosec only bought Apple - now I can't imagine doing my job on an Apple, especially for the money required.

I've been transitioning end users in my company over to the Precision 5000 series since lots of employees use Autodesk products and pretty much every user we have switched over so far seems to love them compared to their older systems.

We still have a few Apple users but we don't really support them for work related functions any longer.

 

[Robnsn2015]

I've been transitioning end users in my company over to the Precision 5000 series since lots of employees use Autodesk products and pretty much every user we have switched over so far seems to love them compared to their older systems.

We still have a few Apple users but we don't really support them for work related functions any longer.

Must admit, I do have admiration for the Precision brand.

 

[LeeW]

So starting today I am going Windows for 30 days. Just switched off my Mac Mini, everything is on the PC and I am using a Raspberry PI as a local web server mapped to folders in Windows so I have everything I need.

No big statement here, just going to see how I get on without macOS for a month. Maybe I won't last

So I thought it was time I updated my previous post, it has been a month. It would be fair to say it has been a month of ups and downs The first week was the hardest, I so wanted to go back to macOS cause it just had everything I needed to do what I wanted to do. But I stuck it out.

A month later I am still with Windows, I eventually found the right tools and methods to ensure I could maintain a way of working I was used to and was comfortable with.

The things I thought I would miss most on macOS have been replaced with things that I would miss more on my PC if I had to switch back to macOS.

Software:

Office! I didn't realise that office on the Mac was so different from the Windows version. Much smoother scrolling and typing, it's actually quite pleasant to use Word for example. Hard to explain but there you go.

Gestures is another one I thought I could not live without, but I have found that the option in Windows to simply create multiple desktops with different apps running turns out to be a better way of managing the things I do. IT is very well laid out and the history it keeps is useful.

As it turns out Windows has a lot more software than I remember and a lot that is a like for like version of the macOS version, just a bit different but equally usable. I spend a lot of time doing web development, Windows is not going to compete with the way macOS natively implements the kind of environment I am used to but it is close and I have managed to replicate it to the point I am pretty comfortable. WSL and the new Windows Terminal (as it matures) are going to change that from pretty comfortable to all in happy.

Overall compatibility with devices is better, as soon as I need to print on my Canon it was like, sure, we have software for that, install, print done. macOS can only use AirPrint, which is good, but troublesome.

I am not going to go on and on here, suffice to say there are many more software-related elements that are really good and in just a month would find it hard to let go of them.

Hardware:

Goes without saying that I am now in control of my Hardware. I had a 512GB NVMe in my PC, upgraded last week to a Samsung Evo 1TB NVMe for £155 and the mobo has a 2nd NVMe slot so put the 512GB in there. Also has a couple of older WD red 6TB NAS drives for storage tucked in the back.

Right now the i7-7700k and the GTX 1070 in the PC are more than I need, I did buy two new Dell Ultrasharp U2518D monitors, they were the perfect size to mount on the wall without being too big to scan from one side to the other.

I eventually settled on a Lenovo S940 laptop, love it. i7, 16GB Ram, 1TB NVMe, 3 years on-site warranty, total price £1,700. Expensive for my needs? Yes, but, the MBP I returned with the dodgy keyboard last month has a base price of £1,799 a quarter of the disk space, half the ram, less powerful CPU, no onsite-warranty. To get close to the spec of the Lenovo with Apple would cost me £2,898.

Those that know me on here will know that I am not in any way price sensitive for the right tools. But it's difficult to argue with those numbers.

Love being so much more in control of the hardware choices.

The bottom line?

I am staying with Windows as you probably guessed. Not going to get rid of my 2018 Mac Mini, having options are always preferable and I like to stay tuned in to what is happening on both sides of the fence.

Sure there are things I still miss about macOS but not enough to sway me back at this point. Nothing will drag me away from the iPad but it's looking very unlikely I will buy another iPhone. Not because of the price or that I dislike my Xs, but, there are just so many other great handsets out there that for my needs are perfectly good, I just don't see the need to pay £1k for a phone anymore.

So there you go, no longer an iSheep

 

[DCIFRTHS]

So I thought it was time I updated my previous post, it has been a month. It would be fair to say it has been a month of ups and downs The first week was the hardest, I so wanted to go back to macOS cause it just had everything I needed to do what I wanted to do. But I stuck it out.

A month later I am still with Windows, I eventually found the right tools and methods to ensure I could maintain a way of working I was used to and was comfortable with.

The things I thought I would miss most on macOS have been replaced with things that I would miss more on my PC if I had to switch back to macOS.

Software:

Office! I didn't realise that office on the Mac was so different from the Windows version. Much smoother scrolling and typing, it's actually quite pleasant to use Word for example. Hard to explain but there you go.

Gestures is another one I thought I could not live without, but I have found that the option in Windows to simply create multiple desktops with different apps running turns out to be a better way of managing the things I do. IT is very well laid out and the history it keeps is useful.

As it turns out Windows has a lot more software than I remember and a lot that is a like for like version of the macOS version, just a bit different but equally usable. I spend a lot of time doing web development, Windows is not going to compete with the way macOS natively implements the kind of environment I am used to but it is close and I have managed to replicate it to the point I am pretty comfortable. WSL and the new Windows Terminal (as it matures) are going to change that from pretty comfortable to all in happy.

Overall compatibility with devices is better, as soon as I need to print on my Canon it was like, sure, we have software for that, install, print done. macOS can only use AirPrint, which is good, but troublesome.

I am not going to go on and on here, suffice to say there are many more software-related elements that are really good and in just a month would find it hard to let go of them.

Hardware:

Goes without saying that I am now in control of my Hardware. I had a 512GB NVMe in my PC, upgraded last week to a Samsung Evo 1TB NVMe for £155 and the mobo has a 2nd NVMe slot so put the 512GB in there. Also has a couple of older WD red 6TB NAS drives for storage tucked in the back.

Right now the i7-7700k and the GTX 1070 in the PC are more than I need, I did buy two new Dell Ultrasharp U2518D monitors, they were the perfect size to mount on the wall without being too big to scan from one side to the other.

I eventually settled on a Lenovo S940 laptop, love it. i7, 16GB Ram, 1TB NVMe, 3 years on-site warranty, total price £1,700. Expensive for my needs? Yes, but, the MBP I returned with the dodgy keyboard last month has a base price of £1,799 a quarter of the disk space, half the ram, less powerful CPU, no onsite-warranty. To get close to the spec of the Lenovo with Apple would cost me £2,898.

Those that know me on here will know that I am not in any way price sensitive for the right tools. But it's difficult to argue with those numbers.

Love being so much more in control of the hardware choices.

The bottom line?

I am staying with Windows as you probably guessed. Not going to get rid of my 2018 Mac Mini, having options are always preferable and I like to stay tuned in to what is happening on both sides of the fence.

Sure there are things I still miss about macOS but not enough to sway me back at this point. Nothing will drag me away from the iPad but it's looking very unlikely I will buy another iPhone. Not because of the price or that I dislike my Xs, but, there are just so many other great handsets out there that for my needs are perfectly good, I just don't see the need to pay £1k for a phone anymore.

So there you go, no longer an iSheep

Nice post. It’s good to have an open mind. I definitely can relate to you on the hardware control. Enjoy!

 

[Robnsn2015]

So I thought it was time I updated my previous post, it has been a month. It would be fair to say it has been a month of ups and downs The first week was the hardest, I so wanted to go back to macOS cause it just had everything I needed to do what I wanted to do. But I stuck it out.

A month later I am still with Windows, I eventually found the right tools and methods to ensure I could maintain a way of working I was used to and was comfortable with.

The things I thought I would miss most on macOS have been replaced with things that I would miss more on my PC if I had to switch back to macOS.

Software:

Office! I didn't realise that office on the Mac was so different from the Windows version. Much smoother scrolling and typing, it's actually quite pleasant to use Word for example. Hard to explain but there you go.

Gestures is another one I thought I could not live without, but I have found that the option in Windows to simply create multiple desktops with different apps running turns out to be a better way of managing the things I do. IT is very well laid out and the history it keeps is useful.

As it turns out Windows has a lot more software than I remember and a lot that is a like for like version of the macOS version, just a bit different but equally usable. I spend a lot of time doing web development, Windows is not going to compete with the way macOS natively implements the kind of environment I am used to but it is close and I have managed to replicate it to the point I am pretty comfortable. WSL and the new Windows Terminal (as it matures) are going to change that from pretty comfortable to all in happy.

Overall compatibility with devices is better, as soon as I need to print on my Canon it was like, sure, we have software for that, install, print done. macOS can only use AirPrint, which is good, but troublesome.

I am not going to go on and on here, suffice to say there are many more software-related elements that are really good and in just a month would find it hard to let go of them.

Hardware:

Goes without saying that I am now in control of my Hardware. I had a 512GB NVMe in my PC, upgraded last week to a Samsung Evo 1TB NVMe for £155 and the mobo has a 2nd NVMe slot so put the 512GB in there. Also has a couple of older WD red 6TB NAS drives for storage tucked in the back.

Right now the i7-7700k and the GTX 1070 in the PC are more than I need, I did buy two new Dell Ultrasharp U2518D monitors, they were the perfect size to mount on the wall without being too big to scan from one side to the other.

I eventually settled on a Lenovo S940 laptop, love it. i7, 16GB Ram, 1TB NVMe, 3 years on-site warranty, total price £1,700. Expensive for my needs? Yes, but, the MBP I returned with the dodgy keyboard last month has a base price of £1,799 a quarter of the disk space, half the ram, less powerful CPU, no onsite-warranty. To get close to the spec of the Lenovo with Apple would cost me £2,898.

Those that know me on here will know that I am not in any way price sensitive for the right tools. But it's difficult to argue with those numbers.

Love being so much more in control of the hardware choices.

The bottom line?

I am staying with Windows as you probably guessed. Not going to get rid of my 2018 Mac Mini, having options are always preferable and I like to stay tuned in to what is happening on both sides of the fence.

Sure there are things I still miss about macOS but not enough to sway me back at this point. Nothing will drag me away from the iPad but it's looking very unlikely I will buy another iPhone. Not because of the price or that I dislike my Xs, but, there are just so many other great handsets out there that for my needs are perfectly good, I just don't see the need to pay £1k for a phone anymore.

So there you go, no longer an iSheep

That's one heckuva journey! Welcome to the other side. I'm glad you found something that works for you.

 

[harrypham]

I have used my Early 2013 15” Macbook Pro Retina for the last 6 years. I wanted to upgrade to 2018 or 2019 Macbook Pro, but I hate the keyboard. I purchased a 2018 15” MacBook Pro for $600 off, but I retuned it, I just decided to get a ThinkPad P1 with 4k Touchscreen, i7 8850H, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, and Quadro P2000 4GH. I also purchased SSD and RAM to upgrade the laptop to 32GB RAM and 3TB SSD. Totally, it still costs less than a 2019 15: MacBook Pro.

 

[mspman]

Something else I forgot. Dell's service plans. Next-day on site service with accidental damage coverage for 3 years is *less than* AppleCare for a 15" MBP - which does not include accidental damage. And, Apple can screw you on those little water markers inside the chassis when it doesn't have any liquid inside.

 

[maflynn]

Something else I forgot. Dell's service plans. Next-day on site service with accidental damage coverage for 3 years is *less than* AppleCare for a 15" MBP - which does not include accidental damage. And, Apple can screw you on those little water markers inside the chassis when it doesn't have any liquid inside.

I don't have onsite/accidental but my 3 year extended warranty cost me 88 bucks (thinkpad) - a far cry from from what apple charges (even for non-plus AC)

 

[agaskew]

So I thought it was time I updated my previous post, it has been a month. It would be fair to say it has been a month of ups and downs The first week was the hardest, I so wanted to go back to macOS cause it just had everything I needed to do what I wanted to do. But I stuck it out.

A month later I am still with Windows, I eventually found the right tools and methods to ensure I could maintain a way of working I was used to and was comfortable with.

The things I thought I would miss most on macOS have been replaced with things that I would miss more on my PC if I had to switch back to macOS.

Software:

Office! I didn't realise that office on the Mac was so different from the Windows version. Much smoother scrolling and typing, it's actually quite pleasant to use Word for example. Hard to explain but there you go.

Gestures is another one I thought I could not live without, but I have found that the option in Windows to simply create multiple desktops with different apps running turns out to be a better way of managing the things I do. IT is very well laid out and the history it keeps is useful.

As it turns out Windows has a lot more software than I remember and a lot that is a like for like version of the macOS version, just a bit different but equally usable. I spend a lot of time doing web development, Windows is not going to compete with the way macOS natively implements the kind of environment I am used to but it is close and I have managed to replicate it to the point I am pretty comfortable. WSL and the new Windows Terminal (as it matures) are going to change that from pretty comfortable to all in happy.

Overall compatibility with devices is better, as soon as I need to print on my Canon it was like, sure, we have software for that, install, print done. macOS can only use AirPrint, which is good, but troublesome.

I am not going to go on and on here, suffice to say there are many more software-related elements that are really good and in just a month would find it hard to let go of them.

Hardware:

Goes without saying that I am now in control of my Hardware. I had a 512GB NVMe in my PC, upgraded last week to a Samsung Evo 1TB NVMe for £155 and the mobo has a 2nd NVMe slot so put the 512GB in there. Also has a couple of older WD red 6TB NAS drives for storage tucked in the back.

Right now the i7-7700k and the GTX 1070 in the PC are more than I need, I did buy two new Dell Ultrasharp U2518D monitors, they were the perfect size to mount on the wall without being too big to scan from one side to the other.

I eventually settled on a Lenovo S940 laptop, love it. i7, 16GB Ram, 1TB NVMe, 3 years on-site warranty, total price £1,700. Expensive for my needs? Yes, but, the MBP I returned with the dodgy keyboard last month has a base price of £1,799 a quarter of the disk space, half the ram, less powerful CPU, no onsite-warranty. To get close to the spec of the Lenovo with Apple would cost me £2,898.

Those that know me on here will know that I am not in any way price sensitive for the right tools. But it's difficult to argue with those numbers.

Love being so much more in control of the hardware choices.

The bottom line?

I am staying with Windows as you probably guessed. Not going to get rid of my 2018 Mac Mini, having options are always preferable and I like to stay tuned in to what is happening on both sides of the fence.

Sure there are things I still miss about macOS but not enough to sway me back at this point. Nothing will drag me away from the iPad but it's looking very unlikely I will buy another iPhone. Not because of the price or that I dislike my Xs, but, there are just so many other great handsets out there that for my needs are perfectly good, I just don't see the need to pay £1k for a phone anymore.

So there you go, no longer an iSheep

Great update. Glad you made things work. I have the same monitors and they're pretty good.

Just wanted to add, I found the transition from iPhone to Android many times more difficult than MacOS to Windows. This may have been due in part to having previous Windows experience, but none on Android. Also I think iOS was a long way ahead of Android when I switched. I still find Android a bit of a mixed bag, with a fair amount of annoyances. Wishing you luck there!

 

[MaxinMusicCity]

As I type this on my company issued 2017 MBP 15... I backspace to fix the double strikes. I bang harder on the keyboard to get some to type. I constantly have to deal with dongle hell just to do my daily job functions. I don't have the physical keys I need to touch type my way through my job.

I am a HUGE Apple fan. I have been an all in guy for a decade plus. But this is just getting ridiculous. I'm serious considering bouncing off to Linux because M$ is just not an option in my mind. I'm not going back to virus hell. I'm just wondering if I'm alone? Is this part of the plan? Is Apple pushing us to iPad Pros? It just feels like I got a "MacBook Plus" not a "Pro" machine. By that I mean it seems like somebody let a marketing person convince them that they could up sell people out of MacBook with bells and whistles and didn't bother giving a Pro line machine features and function I needed.

Again, I'm not some Windows or Android zealot here to start a flame war. Just a hardcore Apple guy wondering what Apple is thinking these days and if they just aren't that "into" the laptop market anymore?

Steve Jobs has left the building