Anyone else abandoning ship?

[SDColorado]

That dell doesn't even have anything more than a 1080p display. At least Apple is giving info on how to resolve the issue before taking it to the Apple store. That reminds me is there a dell store? Oh no they just have mail in options. One more benefit to Apple. I enjoy your point of view though. Cheers.

Dell also has on-site service. I called Apple once for on-site service. They laughed and laughed and laughed...

 

[Cashmonee]

Absolutely.

There were some amazing machines at CES this year:

Yoga S940 was my pick:

New XPS 13 was at the usual high standard we expect:

ThinkPad X1 Yoga:

Asus Zenbook S13:

Huawei Matebook 13:

I completely agree with you. Windows laptops are significantly better than they have been historically. There are a ton of reasons to abandon Apple and look toward Windows or Linux. The big ones would be pricing that is getting astronomical (though speccing most Windows machines similarly shows less price difference than I thought), uncomfortable keyboard (for some/many), port variety, etc. I do think Windows OEMs have really taken big steps forward.

Having said that, I would caution those that are looking to switch. The best advice I could give is to take a long, hard look at why you are switching. As I said, there are a ton of great reasons. I would not switch due to perceived quality however. All brands have forums that look just like MacRumors. The issue and brand is different (usually), but the sentiment is the same. Here is a thread from the ThinkPad Reddit just to give everyone a taste. I can guarantee you this thread exists in a Dell forum, Microsoft forum, Asus, etc. and we all know it certainly exists in the Apple forum. ThinkPads are great machines. As our a lot of what Dell, Microsoft, et al are putting out. But to think you are going to outrun the echo chamber is a fool's errand.

One last bit of totally unsolicited advice to everyone. Stop looking at gray patterns. Stay away from tools that show the computers internal temps and fan speed. Leave the benchmarks to reviewers. Buy a machine with a good return policy (preferably longer than Apple's pathetic 14 day) and use it. Trust me you will be far happier.

[doublepost=1548088115][/doublepost]

I'm on UltraFine 4K 16:9 and I miss the taller screen of the MacBook. 3:2 seems amazing. I don't know what 16:9 is good for really

My understanding is that 16:9 is cheaper to make than any of the other aspect ratios.

 

[maflynn]

That dell doesn't even have anything more than a 1080p display. At least Apple is giving info on how to resolve the issue before taking it to the Apple store. That reminds me is there a dell store? Oh no they just have mail in options. One more benefit to Apple. I enjoy your point of view though. Cheers.

So now you're moving the goal posts, Your point was about buying a spinning hard drive on 1,000 dollar windows laptops. I pointed out that was patently false. Apple has its advantages and disadvantages but my point was specific to showing that windows machines have things that you don't get with Macs.

As for repairs, you can actually purchase onsite warranty, so you don't even have to leave your house. Some makers offer that, and with Apple many times the apple store has to send it to a repair facility or you still have to wait two weeks. So I'm not entire sure I see that as a huge benefit, especially since you have to wait a long to for a genius to see you. I remember waiting 40 minutes for a genius to see my laptop and that was with an appointment.
[doublepost=1548088474][/doublepost]

I have and always will be team Apple.

That's fine, but that doesn't mean that all non-apple laptops are horrible. Different strokes for different folks, and Apple isn't the be all and end all. They're messed up a number of times and laid some eggs themselves.

 

[Cashmonee]

Dell also has on-site service. I called Apple once for on-site service. They laughed and laughed and laughed...

I do wish Apple could do more in store like they used to in the past. It seems more and more they have to send things out. The Dell on-site is pricey, but could be convenient. Of course, you are still beholden to parts availability. If you want accidental damage it costs $200 over AppleCare+ for an XPS 13. Not sure that is worth it in the end, but your only other choice is mail-in which I have never really been a fan of. If you don't want accidental damage, then it would be an even trade of accidental for on-site ($249) since I do not think you can get vanilla AppleCare anymore in the US.

At least they offer it. Apple was always able to offset this by doing many repairs in stores. Just seems like that may not be as possible anymore.

 

[lnikj]

Apple stores are well and good if you live near an Apple store. I live two hours from the nearest one, and an hour and a quarter from the nearest certified engineer.

My 17" 2011 had 3 logic board replacements and a couple of other issues. Each time I had to take a half day off work to take it in and a half day off work to pick it up, and was without it for up to a week in between.

I would welcome on site service.

 

[FreckledLlama]

So now you're moving the goal posts, Your point was about buying a spinning hard drive on 1,000 dollar windows laptops. I pointed out that was patently false. Apple has its advantages and disadvantages but my point was specific to showing that windows machines have things that you don't get with Macs.

As for repairs, you can actually purchase onsite warranty, so you don't even have to leave your house. Some makers offer that, and with Apple many times the apple store has to send it to a repair facility or you still have to wait two weeks. So I'm not entire sure I see that as a huge benefit, especially since you have to wait a long to for a genius to see you. I remember waiting 40 minutes for a genius to see my laptop and that was with an appointment.
[doublepost=1548088474]

I'm not moving goal posts at all my post was about the non ssd drives and only Full HD 1080p screens on 1000 laptops which is not false because you can go to any website such as bestbuy.com or direct websites like Dell.com etc and there is no retina quality on 1000.00 laptops yet they are supposed to be better? I have done my research and maybe you should do yours if you can find one on a new laptop for 1000 or less since they offer so much more value than Macs in your eyes great but if not then lets call it a day.

 

[SDColorado]

I do wish Apple could do more in store like they used to in the past. It seems more and more they have to send things out. The Dell on-site is pricey, but could be convenient. Of course, you are still beholden to parts availability. If you want accidental damage it costs $200 over AppleCare+ for an XPS 13. Not sure that is worth it in the end, but your only other choice is mail-in which I have never really been a fan of. If you don't want accidental damage, then it would be an even trade of accidental for on-site ($249) since I do not think you can get vanilla AppleCare anymore in the US.

At least they offer it. Apple was always able to offset this by doing many repairs in stores. Just seems like that may not be as possible anymore.

I haven't purchased a Dell in years, but germane to the Butterfly Keyboard thread, the only time I ever did have to call them for "onsite service" was for a keyboard failure. They told me that they could get someone out in a couple of days, or they could just overnight me the keyboard and I could just replace it myself. I was like whaaat? I am not a computer tech, not sure I want to try that. They assured me that it was actually really simple and that most owners can do it themselves. Sure, why not I thought. It arrived the next day and I had it replaced in... if I recall... under 30 mins for a non-tech person.

Funny thing is I still have that Dell, an M50 mobile workstation from... was it 2002? Damned if the thing doesn't still burp, fart and grind its way into booting Windows XP. I was using it for a while as a garage machine to run TuneECU for tweaking my bikes ECU.

Adding 3 Year Warranty to a laptop like the Lenovo X1 Extreme to bring it equal to Apple Care is $81.75. Adding On-Site Warranty to that 3 years is an additional $45. So not that expensive for basic. If you choose to go the Premium Support Route, it is $213 for 3 years and an additional $112.50 for On-Site. Accidental Damage another $111.75. So all 3, Warranty+OnSite+Accidental Damage will cost you $437.25 vs Apples $379 for AC+? But you also aren't limited to just a couple instances of ACD and high co-pays, so it *could* be a wash or come out ahead depending on your use, driving distance to the nearest Apple store, etc. Not to mention possibly shorter turn around if Apple needs to send your laptop out to Depot for a repair.

I am not trying to make an argument either way really, but the availability of stores vs onsite repair isn't all that black and white either as far as which is more advantageous

Apple used to have a program for business years ago and I am unfortunately drawing a blank on the name, maybe someone can help me out. You used to pay extra for it and I always did. But for that extra payment, you would get priority Genius Bar appointment times and priority turn around on repairs. It was worth it for business professionals to pay that extra when down times were critical. I am not sure why they ended it. Perhaps because those who didn't pay the premium for the service didn't think it was fair? Dunno ¯\_(⊙_ʖ⊙)_/¯

My (sometimes not so) happy Dell M50 today hahaha. Happy soon to be 17th birthday?

 

[Howard2k]

I called Apple once for on-site service. They laughed and laughed and laughed...

Did they really? Or did they just laugh and laugh? Sometimes the hyperbole here gets out of hand.

 

[SDColorado]

Did they really? Or did they just laugh and laugh? Sometimes the hyperbole here gets out of hand.

No, sorry it was a (poor?) attempt at humor. I am well aware that Apple doesn’t provide on-sight service and would never call them to ask

 

[Howard2k]

No, sorry it was a (poor?) attempt at humor. I am well aware that Apple doesn’t provide on-sight service and would never call them to ask

Lol, my attempt was obviously poorer.

 

[FreckledLlama]

So now you're moving the goal posts, Your point was about buying a spinning hard drive on 1,000 dollar windows laptops. I pointed out that was patently false. Apple has its advantages and disadvantages but my point was specific to showing that windows machines have things that you don't get with Macs.

As for repairs, you can actually purchase onsite warranty, so you don't even have to leave your house. Some makers offer that, and with Apple many times the apple store has to send it to a repair facility or you still have to wait two weeks. So I'm not entire sure I see that as a huge benefit, especially since you have to wait a long to for a genius to see you. I remember waiting 40 minutes for a genius to see my laptop and that was with an appointment.
[doublepost=1548088474][/doublepost]
That's fine, but that doesn't mean that all non-apple laptops are horrible. Different strokes for different folks, and Apple isn't the be all and end all. They're messed up a number of times and laid some eggs themselves.

I'm not moving goal posts at all my post was about the non ssd drives and only Full HD 1080p screens on 1000 laptops which is not false because you can go to any website such as bestbuy.com or direct websites like Dell.com etc and there is no retina quality on 1000.00 laptops yet they are supposed to be better?

I have done my research and maybe you should do yours if you can find one on a new laptop for 1000 or less since they offer so much more value than Macs in your eyes great but if not then lets call it a day.
[doublepost=1548094789][/doublepost]

I do wish Apple could do more in store like they used to in the past. It seems more and more they have to send things out. The Dell on-site is pricey, but could be convenient. Of course, you are still beholden to parts availability. If you want accidental damage it costs $200 over AppleCare+ for an XPS 13. Not sure that is worth it in the end, but your only other choice is mail-in which I have never really been a fan of. If you don't want accidental damage, then it would be an even trade of accidental for on-site ($249) since I do not think you can get vanilla AppleCare anymore in the US.

At least they offer it. Apple was always able to offset this by doing many repairs in stores. Just seems like that may not be as possible anymore.

Apple goes left Apple goes right. I wish they could do more of this too but it seems like no matter what they would do it is never enough for some people. Honestly they should just close up shop and call it a day because it feels like really that is what would make so many folks happy. I have only been a member for a short time and that is the general impression I am getting from here.

 

[SDColorado]

Lol, my attempt was obviously poorer.

Perhaps not, it was a bit of an obscure reference to a poem "You laughed and Laughed and laughed" My humor sucks

 

[idonthatethemac]

I haven't purchased a Dell in years, but germane to the Butterfly Keyboard thread, the only time I ever did have to call them for "onsite service" was for a keyboard failure. They told me that they could get someone out in a couple of days, or they could just overnight me the keyboard and I could just replace it myself. I was like whaaat? I am not a computer tech, not sure I want to try that. They assured me that it was actually really simple and that most owners can do it themselves. Sure, why not I thought. It arrived the next day and I had it replaced in... if I recall... under 30 mins for a non-tech person.

Funny thing is I still have that Dell, an M50 mobile workstation from... was it 2002? Damned if the thing doesn't still burp, fart and grind its way into booting Windows XP. I was using it for a while as a garage machine to run TuneECU for tweaking my bikes ECU.

Adding 3 Year Warranty to a laptop like the Lenovo X1 Extreme to bring it equal to Apple Care is $81.75. Adding On-Site Warranty to that 3 years is an additional $45. So not that expensive for basic. If you choose to go the Premium Support Route, it is $213 for 3 years and an additional $112.50 for On-Site. Accidental Damage another $111.75. So all 3, Warranty+OnSite+Accidental Damage will cost you $437.25 vs Apples $379 for AC+? But you also aren't limited to just a couple instances of ACD and high co-pays, so it *could* be a wash or come out ahead depending on your use, driving distance to the nearest Apple store, etc. Not to mention possibly shorter turn around if Apple needs to send your laptop out to Depot for a repair.

I am not trying to make an argument either way really, but the availability of stores vs onsite repair isn't all that black and white either as far as which is more advantageous

Apple used to have a program for business years ago and I am unfortunately drawing a blank on the name, maybe someone can help me out. You used to pay extra for it and I always did. But for that extra payment, you would get priority Genius Bar appointment times and priority turn around on repairs. It was worth it for business professionals to pay that extra when down times were critical. I am not sure why they ended it. Perhaps because those who didn't pay the premium for the service didn't think it was fair? Dunno ¯\_(⊙_ʖ⊙)_/¯

My (sometimes not so) happy Dell M50 today hahaha. Happy soon to be 17th birthday?

So that means that Windows machines also do last a long time contrary to popular belief among Apple Defence League

ADL would have you believe that Windows machine just die as soon as you bring them home.

 

[SDColorado]

So that means that Windows machines also do last a long time contrary to popular belief among Apple Defence League

ADL would have you believe that Windows machine just die as soon as you bring them home.

Yes, I also have a Dell Inspiron 8100 laptop I had kept around for the same reason (I believe circa 2003?). It will also still boot into Window XP, though it seems to be having some graphics issues. I am not sure if it is the GPU failing or something I could resolve if I had the need/desire to do so, but still at 16 years (I believe approximately 200 years old in computer years ) it still lives and breathes

Poor Inspiron 8100 is like a faithful old dog that just doesn’t want to quit

Edit: I believe a lot of the longevity complaints regarding PC's come from the fact that many PC manufacturers build "budget friendly" models where Apple does not. In Premium model to Premium Model comparisons, I believe the distinctions fade.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

I'm not moving goal posts at all my post was about the non ssd drives and only Full HD 1080p screens on 1000 laptops which is not false because you can go to any website such as bestbuy.com or direct websites like Dell.com etc and there is no retina quality on 1000.00 laptops yet they are supposed to be better?

You do know that every post is written down in this thread and on this forum? You are aware that every post can be read back? So please don't claim you did not move the goal posts.

 

[Ploki]

I'm not moving goal posts at all my post was about the non ssd drives and only Full HD 1080p screens on 1000 laptops which is not false because you can go to any website such as bestbuy.com or direct websites like Dell.com etc and there is no retina quality on 1000.00 laptops yet they are supposed to be better?

1000 laptops or 1000$ laptops?
Because apple doesn't have the latter either.

as for the former, you can get PC laptops with UHD screens, coming in at higher PPI than macs.
Not that I need higher PPI, but hey.

 

[LeeW]

I keep coming back here hoping the Apple picture is going to get better. I really wish it would.

As do many, it gives credence to the 'slaves to Apple' comment I see all the time

 

[idonthatethemac]

Edit: I believe a lot of the longevity complaints regarding PC's come from the fact that many PC manufacturers build "budget friendly" models where Apple does not. In Premium model to Premium Model comparisons, I believe the distinctions fade.

Bingo!!!

 

[SDColorado]

Costco has the Surface Pro 6 with Keyboard type cover for $999.99, so it does at least qualify for under $1000 pre-tax. SSD, 2736 x 1824 display. So there is one option with SSD and retina quality (2304-by-1440) display for under a grand. With patience and waiting for sales/coupons that Lenovo and others frequently do, I am sure there are others.

Edit: That's another thing.. when was the last time Apple ever ran something like a ThinkJanuary 25% off coupon to be used at checkout? Never? Dunno.

 

[poorcody]

Most of the developers I work with used to always have MacBooks. But, lately they have moved on to Windows based laptops. They like the upgrad-ability/repair-ability of some windows systems, and the native ability to run Linux and Windows in dual boot. Also, for the Machine Learning types, an Nvidia GPU is a must.

Yeah MacBooks have been hot with developers because you could work and test under Windows, Linux, and MacOS/iOS all on one machine. The Machine Learning boom and Apple's reluctance to even just sign drivers written by Nvidia is a real problem -- it takes a big notch off one of the developer advantages of Mac laptops.

 

[LeeW]

only Full HD 1080p screens

You say that like it is a bad thing. It's not.

 

[idonthatethemac]

You say that like it is a bad thing. It's not.

Well. Most of the other premium laptops have moved on to bigger and better 4K screens but retina is somehow the gold standard

 

[richinaus]

So now you're moving the goal posts, Your point was about buying a spinning hard drive on 1,000 dollar windows laptops. I pointed out that was patently false. Apple has its advantages and disadvantages but my point was specific to showing that windows machines have things that you don't get with Macs.

As for repairs, you can actually purchase onsite warranty, so you don't even have to leave your house. Some makers offer that, and with Apple many times the apple store has to send it to a repair facility or you still have to wait two weeks. So I'm not entire sure I see that as a huge benefit, especially since you have to wait a long to for a genius to see you. I remember waiting 40 minutes for a genius to see my laptop and that was with an appointment.
[doublepost=1548088474][/doublepost]
That's fine, but that doesn't mean that all non-apple laptops are horrible. Different strokes for different folks, and Apple isn't the be all and end all. They're messed up a number of times and laid some eggs themselves.

Yes, but when I had issues I got to sit with ‘experts’ and discuss the issue.
Recently a colleagues Dell broke and had on site support. Misdiagnosed the issue, failed to fix twice then had to argue with the retailer to replace - I think it took about 6 weeks total.

We all have these anecdotal stories, but on support I go Apple every time [have personally had issues with Lenovo, MS and HP support that I never had with Apple].
[doublepost=1548100956][/doublepost]

Costco has the Surface Pro 6 with Keyboard type cover for $999.99, so it does at least qualify for under $1000 pre-tax. SSD, 2736 x 1824 display. So there is one option with SSD and retina quality (2304-by-1440) display for under a grand. With patience and waiting for sales/coupons that Lenovo and others frequently do, I am sure there are others.

Edit: That's another thing.. when was the last time Apple ever ran something like a ThinkJanuary 25% off coupon to be used at checkout? Never? Dunno.

They don’t have to is the answer.

 

[FreckledLlama]

You do know that every post is written down in this thread and on this forum? You are aware that every post can be read back? So please don't claim you did not move the goal posts.

Cool so attack me then because that is what this surely feels like. I guess I can never add anything else to the discussion then because I am hemmed into what it was initially about and that's it. No wonder people try to kill themselves because of situations online because if you folks are going to pitchfork and torch them to this point why would they even want to live? I'm done with this and please leave me alone because I don't like your attitude.
[doublepost=1548101592][/doublepost]

You say that like it is a bad thing. It's not.

It is because you sit there and say Apple offers no value? Yet Plastic Cases, 1080p displays, non ssd drives for 999 or less? and thats value? Makes no sense. Why the hell would someone want that cheap **** and how is that actual value? Enjoy your lives and how can I actually cancel my account to get away from this toxicness?

 

[LeeW]

They don’t have to is the answer.

They might have to.