Anyone else abandoning ship?

[SDColorado]

They don’t have to is the answer.

Don't they? Seems that threads like this and the Alternatives section have been gaining traction over the past few years. Perhaps should practice a little "Think Different" and make some changes to how things have always been done.

 

[LeeW]

It is because you sit there and say Apple offers no value?

I said nothing of the sort. I simply said 1080p is not bad. Retina is nice, it's not necessary to complete a task.

 

[FreckledLlama]

Costco has the Surface Pro 6 with Keyboard type cover for $999.99, so it does at least qualify for under $1000 pre-tax. SSD, 2736 x 1824 display. So there is one option with SSD and retina quality (2304-by-1440) display for under a grand. With patience and waiting for sales/coupons that Lenovo and others frequently do, I am sure there are others.

Edit: That's another thing.. when was the last time Apple ever ran something like a ThinkJanuary 25% off coupon to be used at checkout? Never? Dunno.

Nope. You folks said that PC's were a better value. If you folks are going to dissect my comments expect the same. No where did you say over time. You said they were a better value so where is the better value now without coupon codes or discounts. Where is the value no discount in comparison to what Apple is charging now.
[doublepost=1548102230][/doublepost]

I said nothing of the sort. I simply said 1080p is not bad. Retina is nice, it's not necessary to complete a task.

Then maybe your partner in crime did but someone said that PC's offer direct values compared to Macs. 1080p is horrible unless you never experienced anything higher and then had to go back. Keep it up though. What's next saying 1080p displays is not bad compared to 4K HDR. Unless your vision is extremely bad then your grasping.

Why would someone spend less on a 1080P display when they could get more for a little bit less? How is that a win for that person? It would seem like it is a loss and a win in your eyes to prop this argument. When you can show me something side by side as to how its a better value great. If not then I'm not dealing with it because I'm happy with what I have you are the person trying to change the mindset so you bring the evidence and ill bring the Tequila 🙂

 

[jerryk]

Yeah MacBooks have been hot with developers because you could work and test under Windows, Linux, and MacOS/iOS all on one machine. The Machine Learning boom and Apple's reluctance to even just sign drivers written by Nvidia is a real problem -- it takes a big notch off one of the developer advantages of Mac laptops.

Yep. I was just at a AI startup and noticed they had replaced all their 2017 MBP 13 and 15 with windows machine, except for the managers. I asked a dev lead about it. He said one word, "CUDA". We had a good laugh over that on.

 

[idonthatethemac]

macbook pro 15 vs dell xps 15 --- Both of them at $2400

I completely understand that each of us have our own preferences but keeping that aside, which one do you think would be better value for money?

https://www.windowscentral.com/dell-xps-15-9570-vs-macbook-pro-which-should-you-buy

 

[LeeW]

PC's offer direct values compared to Macs. 1080p is horrible unless you never experienced anything higher and then had to go back. Keep it up though.

Well, all you are using in terms of direct comparables is a retina screen for which only Apple has (I think) and comparing that to a 1080p like that is all there is out there.

I know there was talk of $1000 but using price/performance you can easily get a Windows-based laptop that exceeds the spec of a MBP for less money. The key difference being 4k vs 5k, a marginal difference in my view.

It's fine that you are an all Apple customer, many of us are, were or are currently in-between.

Unfortunately, the way things are at the moment is that in many threads on MR today there is a lot of negativity towards Apple, with good reason. That is on other threads that have a less attention-grabbing title such as 'Anyone else abandoning ship'.

You picked a good forum to join, but the wrong thread to pump out your support for Apple as a first foray.

 

[FreckledLlama]

Yep. I was just at a AI startup and noticed they had replaced all their 2017 MBP 13 and 15 with windows machine, except for the managers. I asked a dev lead about it. He said one word, "CUDA". We had a good laugh over that on.

Cool it's good to know your tiny little startup is the measure of how doomed Apple is. Lemme go run and by a PC now since your worldview and startup is the north star of where Apple is headed.

 

[jerryk]

macbook pro 15 vs dell xps 15 --- Both of them at $2400

View attachment 816811

Preferences aside, which one do you think would be better value for money?

https://www.windowscentral.com/dell-xps-15-9570-vs-macbook-pro-which-should-you-buy

Interesting comparison. Hard to argue with 32 GB. 4K display is georgous on the Dell. The GTX 1050 is a little long in the tooth though. I bet they come out with the RTX 2060/2070 options very soon!

 

[FreckledLlama]

macbook pro 15 vs dell xps 15 --- Both of them at $2400

View attachment 816811

I completely understand that each of us have our own preferences but keeping that aside, which one do you think would be better value for money?

https://www.windowscentral.com/dell-xps-15-9570-vs-macbook-pro-which-should-you-buy

I mentioned entry level earlier. So try again. Show me a PC that can compete pound by pound with the 13 inch MBP. Again you are missing the mark. You folks responded to my posts with nothing more than BS. I said entry level value and you don't give me that. Give me value specs or if you cannot then you know its a lie. So Again pound by pound for 999 or within the range but not above of the 13 inch entry level rMBP what is the value specs?

 

[jerryk]

Cool it's good to know your tiny little startup is the measure of how doomed Apple is. Lemme go run and by a PC now since your worldview and startup is the north star of where Apple is headed.

Thanks! Yes, startups like these tend for drive group think here in Silicon Valley. Drove people to get MacBook Pros and now drive people away from MacBook Pros. The last thing you want to be in the Valley is a company with "old tech".

 

[FreckledLlama]

Thanks! Yes, startups like these tend for drive group think here in Silicon Valley. Drove people to get MacBook Pros and now drive people away from MacBook Pros. The last thing you want to be in the Valley is a company with "old tech".

So group think gets you folks who all think the same way and can't disrupt because they cannot think for themselves outside of a unit. Keep reaching though I am sure you will get there.
[doublepost=1548103443][/doublepost]

Well, all you are using in terms of direct comparables is a retina screen for which only Apple has (I think) and comparing that to a 1080p like that is all there is out there.

I know there was talk of $1000 but using price/performance you can easily get a Windows-based laptop that exceeds the spec of a MBP for less money. The key difference being 4k vs 5k, a marginal difference in my view.

It's fine that you are an all Apple customer, many of us are, were or are currently in-between.

Unfortunately, the way things are at the moment is that in many threads on MR today there is a lot of negativity towards Apple, with good reason. That is on other threads that have a less attention-grabbing title such as 'Anyone else abandoning ship'.

You picked a good forum to join, but the wrong thread to pump out your support for Apple as a first foray.

I didn't pick a wrong anything. Not YOU specifically but I ask hey what's the PC equivalent of a 13 inch rMBP and folks cannot give me anything other than something that has less specs and when I say specs it should be equal or higher not less or a higher price thats not an equal value.

My point is there is a biased and I never picked the wrong anything I picked this on purpose to prove a point and my point has been proven and I'm just not some dummy who rolled off the turnip truck. I wont relent and can fight back and forth pound by pound if needed.

 

[idonthatethemac]

I mentioned entry level earlier. So try again. Show me a PC that can compete pound by pound with the 13 inch MBP. Again you are missing the mark. You folks responded to my posts with nothing more than BS. I said entry level value and you don't give me that. Give me value specs or if you cannot then you know its a lie. So Again pound by pound for 999 or within the range but not above of the 13 inch entry level rMBP what is the value specs?

Looks like you are changing goal posts again. SDC gave you that but somehow that is not acceptable to you. I am giving you the comparison of the premium ones and still that is not acceptable to you...

Anyway, trying one more time...

 

[jerryk]

So group think gets you folks who all think the same way and can't disrupt because they cannot think for themselves outside of a unit. Keep reaching though I am sure you will get there.

It is an issue. But, selecting a MacBook Pro means you do not have access to things like Nvidia GPUs. And in the latest trends, AI and ML, it means you cannot do much of your development work on your laptop because AMD does not have a CUDA equivalent package. And right now, so many businesses are investing heavily in AI and ML. Even the guys on the Watch team at Apple make use of Nvidia GPUs on their servers for the heart monitor EKG service.

And while there is no way a startup can match Apple for R&D money, they can create next gen tech with the right GPUs on the right systems and beat a lot of the big boys.

 

[idonthatethemac]

And for comparison

 

[Camark08]

macbook pro 15 vs dell xps 15 --- Both of them at $2400

View attachment 816811

I completely understand that each of us have our own preferences but keeping that aside, which one do you think would be better value for money?

https://www.windowscentral.com/dell-xps-15-9570-vs-macbook-pro-which-should-you-buy

The Dell. But if you ask that same question in 4 years about these same models the MacBook will absolutely be worth more. Macs hold value very well.

 

[Ploki]

macbook pro 15 vs dell xps 15 --- Both of them at $2400

I completely understand that each of us have our own preferences but keeping that aside, which one do you think would be better value for money?

https://www.windowscentral.com/dell-xps-15-9570-vs-macbook-pro-which-should-you-buy

ouch.
Thunderbolt3 ports aside (Which I really really hold dear), it looks pretty bad.

 

[idonthatethemac]

The Dell. But if you ask that same question in 4 years about these same models the MacBook will absolutely be worth more. Macs hold value very well.

From a resale point of view that was true up until now. However, Apple has taken a weird direction in terms of keyboard and "upgradability".

With Dell (on 15 inch model), I can upgrade the SSD to the newest NVMe, RAM to its highest configurations (if I bought a base one), battery and wifi card to the lastest one. I can get more out of the same machine until it dies.

BTW, I still have my HP G7 laptop that I bought in 2010/2011 for $700. I upgraded the RAM, and changed SSD and it still works like a charm. It dual boots into Windows 7 and Ubuntu 16.04

Unfortunately, you cannot do all of this on a MBP anymore. So Macs holding their values may or may not be true anymore.

Don't get me wrong. As my handlename suggests, I don't hate the macs.. 😀 I had a 2014 MBP given to me by my employer and it was an amazing machine. Once I switched jobs, I had to return it and wanted to replace my personal machine with MBP 2017/2018. But with persistent keyboard issues and given that I have heavier hands for my smaller frame, I decided to "abandon ship" and go to Dell.

 

[richinaus]

They might have to.

Probably not though. They’re a consumer business and make a lot more than Lenovo, HP and the rest. Computers are a low priority these days.

 

[SDColorado]

Nope. You folks said that PC's were a better value. If you folks are going to dissect my comments expect the same. No where did you say over time. You said they were a better value so where is the better value now without coupon codes or discounts. Where is the value no discount in comparison to what Apple is charging now.
[doublepost=1548102230][/doublepost]

Then maybe your partner in crime did but someone said that PC's offer direct values compared to Macs. 1080p is horrible unless you never experienced anything higher and then had to go back. Keep it up though. What's next saying 1080p displays is not bad compared to 4K HDR. Unless your vision is extremely bad then your grasping.

Why would someone spend less on a 1080P display when they could get more for a little bit less? How is that a win for that person? It would seem like it is a loss and a win in your eyes to prop this argument. When you can show me something side by side as to how its a better value great. If not then I'm not dealing with it because I'm happy with what I have you are the person trying to change the mindset so you bring the evidence and ill bring the Tequila 🙂

The Costco Surface Pro is available now, no sale, no discount. Go buy one today if you are so inclined. You asked for an example of a laptop that cost under $1000 and had SSD and Retina display or better. I presented you with one.

even for 1000 dollars you can only get FULL HD portables and those awful non SSD drives still offered with ugly designs and plasticky like screens and horrid trackpads. No thanks.

 

[LeeW]

Probably not though. They’re a consumer business and make a lot more than Lenovo, HP and the rest. Computers are a low priority these days.

We are being told they want to be a service focussed business going forward, it's where their growth and bigger margins are.

What do you need for consumers to spend more on services? An Apple device. How do you grow that quickly? Drop your hardware prices, add another x million to the eco-system, boom, service revenue grows faster than slow growth of devices at higher prices and then you have more Apple Care, etc...

It's a no-brainer really. Being the bean counter that Cook is, I can pretty much guarantee he will not overlook the option. Not saying they will of course, I agree with your comments but stranger things have happened.

 

[Cashmonee]

macbook pro 15 vs dell xps 15 --- Both of them at $2400

View attachment 816811

I completely understand that each of us have our own preferences but keeping that aside, which one do you think would be better value for money?

https://www.windowscentral.com/dell-xps-15-9570-vs-macbook-pro-which-should-you-buy

Value? Probably the MacBook Pro even though it is light on RAM and SSD compared to the Dell. I don't think I would ever pay that much for a PC though. Part of the allure of a PC is price, and to me you would be crazy to pay that much for a Dell. Now, the thing is Dell almost never sells their stuff at full price, so likely you could get that XPS15 below $2000. At that point it becomes a much tougher call. Equal price? I will take the MacBook Pro. Actual street price (which is less for both of them honestly) the Dell probably wins out since it will likely be a few hundred cheaper. As always it comes down to how much macOS is worth to a person. Considering that the XPS15 has its own reliability complaints, I would probably have to save a lot in order to pick it over the Mac.

 

[Never mind]

few hundred cheaper. As always it comes down to how much macOS is worth to a person. Considering that the XPS15 has its own reliability complaints, I would probably have to save a lot in order to pick it over the Mac.

I just spec’d out a Lenovo X1 Extreme (Good 33% sale) and MacBook pro and the MacBook was over $1,500 more expensive. In my opinion that would be a no brainer to pick this Lenovo over an MacBook. Would that entice you to think about a move? 😉

Mine was $2,188 and the MacBook Pro 15inch was around $4,000

 

[Cashmonee]

I just spec’d out a Lenovo X1 Extreme (Good 33% sale) and MacBook pro and the MacBook was over $1,500 more expensive. In my opinion that would be a no brainer to pick this Lenovo over an MacBook. Would that entice you to think about a move? 😉

Mine was $2,188 and the MacBook Pro 15inch was around $4,000

View attachment 816842

Looks like what would be comparable would be a 15” i7/32/512. That runs $2959 through EDU discount, which anyone can get either through Apple or places like B&H (no one should pay full price on a 15" MBP). So we are talking an $800 premium. That is hefty and would have me look at the X1E pretty seriously. I still would probably go with the MacBook, but that is due to my workflow and preferences. Ultimately, this is a personal thing. Everyone has a threshold for which the Apple Tax becomes too high. $800 is probably over my limit. Fortunately for me, I did not get a 15" and instead went with a 13" for which PC alternatives are rather limited or even really nonexistent.

 

[Blaze4G]

Looks like what would be comparable would be a 15” i7/32/512. That runs $2959 through EDU discount, which anyone can get either through Apple or places like B&H (no one should pay full price on a 15" MBP). So we are talking an $800 premium. That is hefty and would have me look at the X1E pretty seriously. I still would probably go with the MacBook, but that is due to my workflow and preferences. Ultimately, this is a personal thing. Everyone has a threshold for which the Apple Tax becomes too high. $800 is probably over my limit. Fortunately for me, I did not get a 15" and instead went with a 13" for which PC alternatives are rather limited or even really nonexistent.

The quote above also included 3 year warranty for the X1 Extreme, so have to factor that in.

Sidenote: sweet spot for me is 14 inch laptops. 13 is too small, 15 is too big to travel comfortable imo. With the way bezels on laptops are getting smaller, I think 14 and 16 inch laptops should become the standard. I wonder if Apple would ever switch to these sizes.

 

[Cashmonee]

The quote above also included 3 year warranty for the X1 Extreme, so have to factor that in.

Sidenote: sweet spot for me is 14 inch laptops. 13 is too small, 15 is too big to travel comfortable imo. With the way bezels on laptops are getting smaller, I think 14 and 16 inch laptops should become the standard. I wonder if Apple would ever switch to these sizes.

Good call. I didn't catch that. Those can be hard to match up though since Apple include accidental now with AppleCare in the US and has the stores where others have accidental or no accidental and mail in or on-site. Subtract the $82 and you are still around $800. The warranty cost would not be the dealbreaker for me personally. The 15" AppleCare+ is stretching it for me, but the 13" seems very reasonable at $250 with Edu.

The 13" MBP is just about the perfect size for my usage. I would not complain at all if they could squeeze a 14" screen into the same or very similar chassis though.