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I had the same experience with my iMac 5K. Terrible service experience 2x.
I've been lucky, while I've walked away from the mac platform, I will say the service I've received from apple has been stellar. I will say getting to the service is a painful point. It does annoy me that I the earliest appointments are around 2 weeks away, and then when I arrive for my appointment, I'm subjected to a 40 minute wait. After that its smooth sailing :)
 
It would appear that countries without Apple stores have some advantage. My country has an Apple certified reseller and repair service. I don't have to book an appointment, I can just walk right in, and in the matter of 2-3 minutes my laptop is off for repair.

Problem is keyboard repairs take about 2 weeks. 2 weeks without a main workhorse isn't something I can tolerate, and I done keyboard repairs multiple times. So for the time being, I'm off from mac platform. I still use macs in a company I work for, but 99% of my time is on another brand these days.

But 2 times I had to go to Apple Store, once in Germany, and once in UK (not keyboard related), and since I was travelling, both times I really had great experience. My 2 months old iPhone 5s simply died on me, and in the UK it was just replaced on the spot. My MBP 2011 had GPU issue under warranty, and since I couldn't wait for repair, I got a same spec brand refurb. So can't really complain.
 
My country has an Apple certified reseller and repair service.
Apple stores killed off a lot of independent apple authorized dealers. I understand why Apple opened up their stores back in the day, they needed a better distribution channel. Yet, its those small independent stores that can and do bend over backwards in the name of customer service.
 
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I've been lucky, while I've walked away from the mac platform, I will say the service I've received from apple has been stellar. I will say getting to the service is a painful point. It does annoy me that I the earliest appointments are around 2 weeks away, and then when I arrive for my appointment, I'm subjected to a 40 minute wait. After that its smooth sailing :)
I’d have to agree with this, I’ve been to the Apple store several times, a few of which were for issues I needed fixed, and the service was always exceptional. Now I used to work retail as a supervisor for several years, so maybe I just am familiar or more sympathetic towards retail employees, but I have always been polite and professional to the Genius Bar employees and have been treated in kind when I bring something in to be looked at and/or fixed.
 
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I’d have to agree with this, I’ve been to the Apple store several times, a few of which were for issues I needed fixed, and the service was always exceptional. Now I used to work retail as a supervisor for several years, so maybe I just am familiar with how to approach employees in the store so as not to set off a bad experience, but I have always been polite and professional to the Genius Bar employees and have been treated in kind when I bring something in to be looked at and/or fixed.
I would also chime in to say on the few issues I have had, Apple have always done right by me so far. My concern is that good aftercare shouldn't be a substitute for thorough testing and robust design... I also didn't like that Apple were charging people for keyboard top case replacements prior to launching the repair program (especially given their design choice meant this cost hundreds of $).
 
I would also chime in to say on the few issues I have had, Apple have always done right by me so far. My concern is that good aftercare shouldn't be a substitute for thorough testing and robust design... I also didn't like that Apple were charging people for keyboard top case replacements prior to launching the repair program (especially given their design choice meant this cost hundreds of $).
I agree, I think the current process by which several dozen or hundred people have to pay several hundred dollars on repairs each before Apple acknowledges a repair program is needed is ludicrous, even though it is hard to avoid and people can (I think) get reimbursed after the fact on most repairs down before a repair program is started.

Ultimately it’s like you said, these issues should be fixed before the machines are even in full production stages. When it comes to hardware, I think there does need to be a change in their QC department during the design phase. They need a more rigorous and detailed review of what could potentially cause issues. It make us customers happier to have a more reliable and well QC tested machine, and I’m sure the PR department would have a lot less heartburn on a weekly basis from issues popping up from preventable causes.
 
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Apple stores killed off a lot of independent apple authorized dealers. I understand why Apple opened up their stores back in the day, they needed a better distribution channel. Yet, its those small independent stores that can and do bend over backwards in the name of customer service.
I prefer the small and independent stores. We only have one official Apple store and that’s 146 km away. So that’s not convenient. I prefer the independent stores because I find they listen to what’s the problem and treat you like equal. My experience with the Apple store is that you feel more like a number, they interrupt if you explain the problem and they’re more snobby. They resemble the arrogance of the company. Of course, not all workers there are the same. But I don’t like the attitude and I’m not buying a lifestyle, just gear I want to work with.

Unfortunately Apple cut of those other companies here. You have to do it the Apple way or no way (meaning losing your warranty if repairing somewhere else, and that’s irritating me to the max).
 
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I have no integration with iCloud or iMessage, so I have no reason to be in the Apple ecosystem. The last time I purchased an Apple product that was new was in 2013. I considered buying a MBP for a few years, but once they introduced the 2016 model my interest went away. At this point I don't think I will ever purchase a current Apple product again. I still use a lot of 2000s Apple products, and will continue to. However, once those are no longer usable for work I will move onto something else. (Mainly if I lose browser support on PPC and SL) I have reintroduced myself to the world of Windows and Linux for work in the past few years, and want to further my use of Linux when the time comes to move on from Mac OS X 10.4-10.6.
 
Haha, maybe playing keyboard roulette is good enough for you, but some of us who have been using Macs for decades expect more. Show me all the threads with hundreds of posts about the scissor switch MacBook keyboards failing over and over from common dust. I'll wait.
I can only point to the opposite with my own experiences with the wired Apple extended aluminium keyboard. Sometimes some keys get really "mushy" (if that's even a word) but are otherwise still working perfectly fine without skipping a letter or typing a letter twice. So I unclip the top of the key, remove all the dust that has been compressed into a thin sort of padding from under the key, re-clip the top and the key is as good as new again.

I'm not going to buy a MacBook with both a keyboard and a display that are going to fail in the future.
 
I have to be honest to, Apple have done right by me every single time no questions asked and with the last 15 years of mac use it mounts to the multiple £ks.

In terms of keyboards I have a 2015 macbook that I got a year old pre owned and have had no issues with it.

Since the chicklet mac keyboard 2007 A1243 came out I have had 4-5 because when the keys break you cant repair them. Still think these are the best keyboards apple ever made, especially the wired with numeric pad.
 
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I have no integration with iCloud or iMessage,
Not for nothing, but you can use iCloud services in Windows. Not iMessage of course, but if you store information on iCloud you can access it thanks a windows iCloud app from Apple.
 
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I can only point to the opposite with my own experiences with the wired Apple extended aluminium keyboard. Sometimes some keys get really "mushy" (if that's even a word) but are otherwise still working perfectly fine without skipping a letter or typing a letter twice. So I unclip the top of the key, remove all the dust that has been compressed into a thin sort of padding from under the key, re-clip the top and the key is as good as new again.

Yeah, it's a pretty robust mechanism -- and for that whole era of MacBook keyboard, there was definitely not a thread in here with several thousand posts about people's keyboards dying, that's for sure.

I'm not going to buy a MacBook with both a keyboard and a display that are going to fail in the future.

I'm in the same boat, sadly. It's a damn shame because I would love to have an updated MBA in my bag.
 
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Not for nothing, but you can use iCloud services in Windows. Not iMessage of course, but if you store information on iCloud you can access it thanks a windows iCloud app from Apple.
I wasn't aware. Also, how is the X1 working out? I might look into one of those for a replacement for my failing HP from 2011. I've always been a fan of the Thinkpad keyboards, but I haven't used one heavily since it was owned by IBM.

I wouldn't want a MBP right now because not only do I not really like the current design, but I'd be too scared that it'd break down randomly on me due to the keyboard or screen. Extra stress I really don't need.

I would love to see a MacBook Pro with the thickness of the PowerBook G4 or early MBP. They could shove a lot of power into that machine.
 
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I wasn't aware. Also, how is the X1 working out? I might look into one of those for a replacement for my failing HP from 2011. I've always been a fan of the Thinkpad keyboards, but I haven't used one heavily since it was owned by IBM.
No complaints comparing Apples to Thinkpads, I find my X1E runs about the same temps as my MBP, but seems to handle the load a lot better. That is, the temps of my MBP could rise fairly quickly but the temps in the X1E are more stable. The GPU is better then Apples (my MBP predated the Vega), and I have 1TB of storage. I could never afford a configuration on the MBP that included 1TB of storage. Being able to hold all of my images internally is a bit plus.
 
No complaints comparing Apples to Thinkpads, I find my X1E runs about the same temps as my MBP, but seems to handle the load a lot better. That is, the temps of my MBP could rise fairly quickly but the temps in the X1E are more stable. The GPU is better then Apples (my MBP predated the Vega), and I have 1TB of storage. I could never afford a configuration on the MBP that included 1TB of storage. Being able to hold all of my images internally is a bit plus.
I was wondering about the temps since it's got a decent GPU in it. Only thing I'll have to get over is my hatred of the Windows 10 UI... I liked the XP UI, and though the Vista/7 UI was okay, but have never been able to get used to 8/10. Maybe after using it for a bit it will become more natural.
 
No complaints comparing Apples to Thinkpads, I find my X1E runs about the same temps as my MBP, but seems to handle the load a lot better. That is, the temps of my MBP could rise fairly quickly but the temps in the X1E are more stable. The GPU is better then Apples (my MBP predated the Vega), and I have 1TB of storage. I could never afford a configuration on the MBP that included 1TB of storage. Being able to hold all of my images internally is a bit plus.

I like my P1 a lot (X1E with i7-8850H and Quadro P2000), but the last month or so I've been getting around 1 BSOD a week. That and constant annoyance with Microsoft app design (Skype, for example) makes me curse the sky every so often. I wish Apple got their **** together and offered reliable machines with modular hardware like every other manufacturer.
 
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I like my P1 a lot (X1E with i7-8850H and Quadro P2000), but the last month or so I've been getting around 1 BSOD a week. That and constant annoyance with Microsoft app design (Skype, for example) makes me curse the sky every so often. I wish Apple got their **** together and offered reliable machines with modular hardware like every other manufacturer.

One thing I have noticed is the firmware and software conflict. I was also trying to keep my XPS 15 up-to-date in terms of firmware and then my Ubuntu Kernels (dual-boot but i use Ubuntu more for learning purposes). Got into a mess a little bit and the machine would freeze and I would have to do a hard reboot. I re-installed everything(Win 10, Ubuntu). I downgraded my Kernel a bit and its been stable since. I am not touching the firmware upgrade until I know its a stable one.

Try updating or downgrading the firmware to see if it resolves the issue.
 
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That and constant annoyance with Microsoft app design (Skype, for example) makes me curse the sky every so often. I wish Apple got their **** together and offered reliable machines with modular hardware like every other manufacturer.
Did you try wiping and reinstalling W10? I only got one BSOD, and that was due to Vmware.

As for MS Apps, are you talking UWP? I'm not a fan, I wished they'd stick with one UI and be consistent.

Try updating or downgrading the firmware to see if it resolves the issue.
Good advice as I was just notified of a new bios, the P1 may have received their bios update sooner then the X1
 
I was wondering about the temps since it's got a decent GPU in it. Only thing I'll have to get over is my hatred of the Windows 10 UI... I liked the XP UI, and though the Vista/7 UI was okay, but have never been able to get used to 8/10. Maybe after using it for a bit it will become more natural.

The W10 ecosystem is a shining example of UI inconsistency. Even the 3 window control icons and titlebars in the top right are different sizes across latest versions of things. On the other hand though, you can very often run 15 or even 20 year old software on W10. You pays your money...
 
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Did you try wiping and reinstalling W10? I only got one BSOD, and that was due to Vmware.

As for MS Apps, are you talking UWP? I'm not a fan, I wished they'd stick with one UI and be consistent.


Good advice as I was just notified of a new bios, the P1 may have received their bios update sooner then the X1

I run so many programs that it's at least 20 hours of work to get everything set up again after I wipe W10. I really don't want to resort to that. Though, I do have a 2nd ssd I could try installing it to just to test if that fixes things temporarily...

I just hate MS's design in general. They don't understand how to make a UI intuitive to use. UWP is it's own broken dumpster fire: Why on earth do you have every system app take up the same instance of UWP, meaning you can only do one thing at a time with the modern windows UI.
 
I went to Chromebook for a while but I eventually caved and went back to Mac. I have a Windows PC at work and while Windows is about as good as it has ever been and ChromeOS still fits most of my needs, but dang, the second you want to do one of those five or six tasks you can't do on a Chromebook and you're used to doing on a Mac, you're toast.

I don't use iMessage (Android phone for now) and I don't use most Apple Services (used Automator to create a "Google Photos" button on my desktop and I replaced "Notes" with Google Keep) but macOS is still my comfort zone and the MBP hardware is still amazing.
 
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I run so many programs that it's at least 20 hours of work to get everything set up again after I wipe W10. I really don't want to resort to that. Though, I do have a 2nd ssd I could try installing it to just to test if that fixes things temporarily...

I just hate MS's design in general. They don't understand how to make a UI intuitive to use. UWP is it's own broken dumpster fire: Why on earth do you have every system app take up the same instance of UWP, meaning you can only do one thing at a time with the modern windows UI.

Designed for touchscreens, tablets and *cough* phones I'm afraid.
 
As I type this on my company issued 2017 MBP 15... I backspace to fix the double strikes. I bang harder on the keyboard to get some to type. I constantly have to deal with dongle hell just to do my daily job functions. I don't have the physical keys I need to touch type my way through my job.

I am a HUGE Apple fan. I have been an all in guy for a decade plus. But this is just getting ridiculous. I'm serious considering bouncing off to Linux because M$ is just not an option in my mind. I'm not going back to virus hell. I'm just wondering if I'm alone? Is this part of the plan? Is Apple pushing us to iPad Pros? It just feels like I got a "MacBook Plus" not a "Pro" machine. By that I mean it seems like somebody let a marketing person convince them that they could up sell people out of MacBook with bells and whistles and didn't bother giving a Pro line machine features and function I needed.

Again, I'm not some Windows or Android zealot here to start a flame war. Just a hardcore Apple guy wondering what Apple is thinking these days and if they just aren't that "into" the laptop market anymore?

even MacRumors.com is considering Razor Laptops, have you not seen their post?

Apple hardware is an expensive unreliable mess, that and their software is very horrible now compared with whats out there. Some of it is still ok, but I feel if they made a comparison almost none of the Apple Software will be #1. Ex... I don't believe Safari is the best browser out there and neither is iMovie the best video editor out there.

There was a time when people bought the mac because of the software.
 
I run so many programs that it's at least 20 hours of work to get everything set up again after I wipe W10. I really don't want to resort to that. Though, I do have a 2nd ssd I could try installing it to just to test if that fixes things temporarily...

I just hate MS's design in general. They don't understand how to make a UI intuitive to use. UWP is it's own broken dumpster fire: Why on earth do you have every system app take up the same instance of UWP, meaning you can only do one thing at a time with the modern windows UI.

I create known good disk images and revert as needed, external T5 SSD takes about 3 minutes, nor do I have any mercy for how many writes the SSD's have to deal with as I'll upgrade way before they ever come close to being an issue.

I just use the old W7 image tool built into W10, never yet failed and I frequently revert the OS as it's far faster than picking through cleaning up thousands of data files I accumulate on a project.

Q-6
 
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As I type this on my company issued 2017 MBP 15... I backspace to fix the double strikes. I bang harder on the keyboard to get some to type. I constantly have to deal with dongle hell just to do my daily job functions. I don't have the physical keys I need to touch type my way through my job.

I am a HUGE Apple fan. I have been an all in guy for a decade plus. But this is just getting ridiculous. I'm serious considering bouncing off to Linux because M$ is just not an option in my mind. I'm not going back to virus hell. I'm just wondering if I'm alone? Is this part of the plan? Is Apple pushing us to iPad Pros? It just feels like I got a "MacBook Plus" not a "Pro" machine. By that I mean it seems like somebody let a marketing person convince them that they could up sell people out of MacBook with bells and whistles and didn't bother giving a Pro line machine features and function I needed.

Again, I'm not some Windows or Android zealot here to start a flame war. Just a hardcore Apple guy wondering what Apple is thinking these days and if they just aren't that "into" the laptop market anymore?
10 years ago, you were Apple's target audience. They loved their hard core and creative types. Once Apple got a taste of the mainstream market, the business people at Apple appear to have changed tack.

Now, I sill love Apple, but my relationship with them is a bit more complicated.
 
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