Anyone else abandoning ship?

[SDColorado]

I really do not want to contribute to this thread anymore (once was enough, its a crap show) but I will contribute one last time

This thread started by the OP complaining about his keyboard on his 2017 15" COMPANY ISSUED MBP. Giving mention to not being a PRO machine just a Macbook with extra bells and whistles and a price tag. I would say the same thing about my company Dell laptop.

795 posts later and the USUAL APPLE HATERS keeping the ridiculous thread going. You know who you are, just look at the repetition on how much you contributed to this thread.

If you are surprised that Apple laptops have quality issues or design issues, then you have not been paying attention for the last 12 plus years.

I had a 2008 White MacBook that I had to keep on a pillow or it would burn a hole in my jeans.
I had a 2011 MBP 15" the reason I joined this forum for help for the failing dGPU. The extended warranty repair was not invented for the 2016-2018 laptops. It goes way back.

If I have to climb in the trench with someone, I will take APPLE over any windows machine, They proved that to me over the years. It wasn't always pretty but they have always come through. Even my 2017 15" MBP......

Enjoy the rest of your fan fair on Windows and track pads........Maybe all you Apple Haters should be posting Pictures of your new laptops when you are done posting on Twitter.

Go have a beer somewhere and calm down, life is short and beer is good

Typing this 2 Barrel Aged Yeti Stouts in

On to Mochery Brewing and a Barrel Aged Belgian Triple. Delish

 

[SDColorado]

All of the people who buy it not realizing it could not be repaired and as a result didn't realize the warranty was such a critical consideration as a result? Which is probably the majority of people, warranties are considered rip off's by most and avoided.

I don't want to turn this into you list a positive and I a negative, so many others do that better than me. Sure, you got a decent warranty and if it lasts 4 years it will likely last 4 more if needed, if not you get a replacement.

Microsoft should be forced to tell people they are buying a machine that no matter what goes wrong with it, no repair is possible. Actually, it's a situation where the warranty should not be offered but built into the price.

I don’t know. I was well aware of Microsoft’s policy when I bought it. The Microsoft Store made it clear, but I realize not everyone buys from the Microsoft Store. Some buy from Best Buy and Costco and surely they don’t make it as clear, selling their own warranties, etc.

The 4 year Business Complete retailed for $349 and I got a 10% military discount off of that, so I can’t complain vs the $379 that Apple Care + cost me for the Mac. Then of course Apple charges $99 for display or $299 for any other damage. So I am happy with the $49 co-pay for a new machine if it breaks.

I throw the Surface Pro in my motorcycle pannier and take it off road, camping, etc. It has been banged around, jolted, bounced, exposed to dust and ash and whatever else and so far after 18 months has been flawless.

I will definitely have a long look at the Surface Book 3 if it has the specs I hope it does come this October. I guess we will find out.

The Surface Pro has been a good re-introduction to Windows 10 for me after 12 years away and has made me more open minded about considering a Windows machine
again as my main.

Out of warranty replacement for a Surface Book 2 15” is $650.

IN warranty repair for a 15” MacBook Pro if you need a top case replacement is the cost of Apple Care + $379 plus $299 co-pay for a total of $678. Pretty much a wash? Except IN warranty it would cost you $49 for a new Surface Book 2. So Apple Care + is really more the equivalent of Surface out of warranty costs. Not a bargain by any stretch.

If anything, Apple Care + is the one that should be included in the price or at the very least do way the the exorbitant co-pays when you have already paid so much for a warranty.

You already paid $379 for Apple Care Plus, $49 for any repair under warranty is fair. Not $99 additional for a display, $299 additional for anything else.

 

[richinaus]

Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 thread right here with over 11,000 posts. No clue why you had trouble finding it. It’s very active.

I think he had trouble finding 'new info'. The thread offers no new info as nothing new has been announced. Offers lots of new speculation though....
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I don’t know. I was well aware of Microsoft’s policy when I bought it. The Microsoft Store made it clear, but I realize not everyone buys from the Microsoft Store. Some buy from Best Buy and Costco and surely they don’t make it as clear, selling their own warranties, etc.

The 4 year Business Complete retailed for $349 and I got a 10% military discount off of that, so I can’t complain vs the $379 that Apple Care + cost me for the Mac. Then of course Apple charges $99 for display or $299 for any other damage. So I am happy with the $49 co-pay for a new machine if it breaks.

I throw the Surface Pro in my motorcycle pannier and take it off road, camping, etc. It has been banged around, jolted, bounced, exposed to dust and ash and whatever else and so far after 18 months has been flawless.

I will definitely have a long look at the Surface Book 3 if it has the specs I hope it does come this October. I guess we will find out.

The Surface Pro has been a good re-introduction to Windows 10 for me after 12 years away and has made me more open minded about considering a Windows machine
again as my main.

Out of warranty replacement for a Surface Book 2 15” is $650.

IN warranty repair for a 15” MacBook Pro if you need a top case replacement is the cost of Apple Care + $379 plus $299 co-pay for a total of $678. Pretty much a wash? Except IN warranty it would cost you $49 for a new Surface Book 2. So Apple Care + is really more the equivalent of Surface out of warranty costs. Not a bargain by any stretch.

If anything, Apple Care + is the one that should be included in the price or at the very least do way the the exorbitant co-pays when you have already paid so much for a warranty.

You already paid $379 for Apple Care Plus, $49 for any repair under warranty is fair. Not $99 additional for a display, $299 additional for anything else.

never in 20 years have I had to pay anything to Apple for a repair. Maybe I am lucky, maybe my policy of using computers as tools and replacing them often, or maybe my knowledge of consumer law contributes.

My only experience of MS was the single most terrible customer service I have ever experienced, and puts me off still even though the surfaces are great. Plus there is no MS store where I live, so I still refuse to buy anything MS.
If you consider international physical store presence, Apple dominate by far, and that is the single most important reason I stick with Apple. If MS opened a store locally, maybe I will reconsider.

I also witnessed first hand watching some business colleagues trying to get a faulty Dell laptop fixed. 2 office visits by the dell service guy, then pleading with the retailer to try and replace. It took them weeks, and that was for a business who has a good relationship with the retailer ! No way am I going that route either.

With HP on professional Z series workstations, faulty monitors and computers had to be returned. No offer of a temp replacement etc. So we were down computers with people twiddling thumbs !

My last experience with Apple was they went out of their way to reduce any lost work time on business machines, with impeccable service. Talked directly with the senior 'genius' and also they bent over backwards to get the right solution.

we all have these anecdotes, so can each make our own minds up what we buy, but for me being able to walk into a store and deal with a professional person who speaks English and can understand what I am saying, cannot be underestimated at all.

 

[MichaelDT]

I like my 2017 MBP, but I think I’ll be switching to a surface book once MS fixes Windows update and adds Thunderbolt. Windows 10 is pretty good, and with the WSL it ticks all the boxes. macOS hasn’t had a major upgrade in since Lion, essentially they’ve just tweaked the UI and attempted to cripple the OS in the name of security. If Apple want premium price, they need to justify it. They are no longer leaps and bounds better than Windows, they let their lead slip and are essentially at parity. With MS under Satya, I will not be surprised if we see Windows surpass macOS in terms of pro usability in the next few years. I’m far more excited these days over Microsoft rumors than Apple rumors. The man has vision.

 

[richinaus]

I like my 2017 MBP, but I think I’ll be switching to a surface book once MS fixes Windows update and adds Thunderbolt. Windows 10 is pretty good, and with the WSL it ticks all the boxes. macOS hasn’t had a major upgrade in since Lion, essentially they’ve just tweaked the UI and attempted to cripple the OS in the name of security. If Apple want premium price, they need to justify it. They are no longer leaps and bounds better than Windows, they let their lead slip and are essentially at parity. With MS under Satya, I will not be surprised if we see Windows surpass macOS in terms of pro usability in the next few years. I’m far more excited these days over Microsoft rumors than Apple rumors. The man has vision.

It has always surpassed macOS for pro usability....... but if you look at the prices of the surface book 2 to the macbookpro they are on parity of price. Depends if you need pen input, if not the mbp is a better buy in my view.

 

[Mendota]

Touchscreens are a joke. Lifting your hands off the keyboard to touch with your fingers isn’t adding productivity or speed. If I want that, I’ll use my iPad. Touch screens have no purpose on a real laptop.
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We’ve discussed this. Zero competition in the 90s plus Microsoft has products for a corporate environment like server, active directory, and exchange. Also don’t forget the bazillion products that run windows.

Bonus: you can buy garbage $200 laptops and desktops that run windows

If in over 30 years, Apple was not able to raise their Market Share past 10%, that is on Apple. And funny you should mention raising your hand to touch the screen as being a joke given that that is what one has to do constantly on the iPad pro... Remember according to Tim, it is all the computer you need.
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All of the people who buy it not realizing it could not be repaired and as a result didn't realize the warranty was such a critical consideration as a result? Which is probably the majority of people, warranties are considered rip off's by most and avoided.

I don't want to turn this into you list a positive and I a negative, so many others do that better than me. Sure, you got a decent warranty and if it lasts 4 years it will likely last 4 more if needed, if not you get a replacement.

Microsoft should be forced to tell people they are buying a machine that no matter what goes wrong with it, no repair is possible. Actually, it's a situation where the warranty should not be offered but built into the price.

I don't think this is an issue. 1. Most ordinary people (consumers) don't update or try to repair devices after a period of 4 plus years. Some will take them to Best Buy to see if they can be fixed, but only early on. 2. It is rather obvious looking at a Surface product that they cannot be opened and self repaired, so no secret there. 3. For someone like me that uses Surface for graphic art, I can tell you the heavy, bulky, convertible of old ( that you could open up) were no joy to use. I am perfectly happy with the trade off. 4. Many people use iPads, and they can't be opened either. All that we ask is that they be of a quality to last.

None of my Surface products have failed and my Surface Book is four years old now. Still charges to 100% and the performance is flawless. I will need to upgrade before it give out, which is how it should be with any quality device.

 

[LeeW]

795 posts later and the USUAL APPLE HATERS keeping the ridiculous thread going. You know who you are, just look at the repetition on how much you contributed to this thread.

I think Apple haters is harsh, but yes, I do agree, a few in this thread being overly defensive of their current choices and the need to constantly repeat their justifications of them.

 

[maflynn]

a few in this thread being overly defensive of their current choices and the need to constantly repeat their justifications of them.

I think the same thing can be said on the other side of the fence There are people who think apple can do no wrong and some of them have to do logical gymnastics to defend the issues that have been documented. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

My take on this, is that there is an increasing amount of frustration related to Apple's laptops, this due to a number of factors (price/issues with the keyboard/flexgate/etc). Without trying to put words in their mouth, I think many long time apple fans are tired of spending a premium amount for a laptop that seems to have a high number of documented issues.

 

[LeeW]

I think the same thing can be said on the other side of the fence There are people who think apple can do no wrong and some of them have to do logical gymnastics to defend the issues that have been documented. ¯\_(ツ)_/

Of course, I was referring to both 'camps', although as I am sure you will have heard, when a customer has a great experience they tell 1 or 2, if they have a bad experience they tell 12. The latter is the MR effect right now. How does that translate into % of overall sales? We will likely never know, any figures that have been thrown around are speculation.

In this thread, in particular, I have not seen people defending Apple as if they could do no wrong, although I may have missed it by the 33rd page. for most, they know the issues and acknowledge them but continue to choose Apple despite them, fair enough.

But of course, if you are an Apple user and have not experienced any of the reported issues, and for now at least that is the majority as far as we know, then you can hardly blame them for being on the Apple side of the fence in defending them as if they do no wrong if that is their own experience.

Now, I am sure given the way this thread is going, someone will feel the need to reply in opposing, correcting or disputing this post.

I will unsubscribe from it now, it really is just becoming a defense of positions from the same people, there is no value in it now.

 

[Retsiem]

My macbooks are from 2013. I tapped out after they got rid of the magsafe and ports.
Bizare political activism, high prices, weird product lineup, bad quality control, ...
Apple is becoming more and more of a ********. Once Steve was gone it all went downhill.
And Tim Cook is not good at what he does.

I am not sure what I will do in the future.
I am hoping for their iPad Pro lineup to replace their macbooks.

 

[CooperBox]

Abandoning ship? You bet! I did so regarding new Macs in 2013 when I purchased a MBProRet. And that will definitely be my last new Mac.
That 2013 Retina is not a bad machine, don't get me wrong, but it now never gets used since I discovered a mid 2012 MacBookPro 9,1 for far less than half the price I paid for the Retina. Plus I've installed a 500Gb Samsung SSD and doubled the RAM for a price that had I ordered the same on the Retina would have had me crying for my own sanity.
The MacBook Pro9,1 is the last of the truly great 15" Mac laptops. Totally upgradeable, and built like a top-rate Mercedes, whereby my Retina imho relates more to a high-end Renault - gets the job done but not so sturdy. And once they are opened up, the pre-Retina is nicer to work on.
I won't comment on the engineering form function of the much newer MacBook Pros, except to say that I wouldn't give one house room, and know from local ads that many are being sold off after very short periods of use. I wonder why......?
Talking to a repair specialist in a Cash buy-back type store 2 weeks ago, he mentioned that his boss has ceased buying in used late MacBook Pros. I naturally asked why and he said it was due to the generally known problematic nature of these 15" laptops, and they couldn't comfortably offer their limited after-sales warranty. I noticed they had a MacBook Pro9,1 available, and he agreed like myself that it was the last of the great Mac MBPros.
I still regularly use a 2003 Titanium PPC PowerBook (my very first new Mac purchase), and also an early Intel MacBook - with modern Web browsers I hasten to add - both of which have been treated to maxed-out RAM and an SSD.
The golden days of the Mac are gone, especially in terms of longevity.

 

[rayriceroni00]

If in over 30 years, Apple was not able to raise their Market Share past 10%, that is on Apple. And funny you should mention raising your hand to touch the screen as being a joke given that that is what one has to do constantly on the iPad pro... Remember according to Tim, it is all the computer you need.

Your first mistake was taking Tim Cook seriously. He was a supply chain clown that is now ceo. He sucks.

Second, 10% yet the most valuable company that makes computers. People can keep their $200 windows junk.
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I think the same thing can be said on the other side of the fence There are people who think apple can do no wrong and some of them have to do logical gymnastics to defend the issues that have been documented. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

My take on this, is that there is an increasing amount of frustration related to Apple's laptops, this due to a number of factors (price/issues with the keyboard/flexgate/etc). Without trying to put words in their mouth, I think many long time apple fans are tired of spending a premium amount for a laptop that seems to have a high number of documented issues.

The keyboard is the only real issue. It’s not great to use and can fail. Flexgate is not a huge issue and appears years down the road.

Both are examples of why you should be carrying Apple care on a device you can’t repair yourself. Small insurance to pay at $15/mo.

 

[richinaus]

I do enjoy this thread

It is all well and good knocking Apple as they have messed up in some areas, specifically the Mac Pro and apparent faults on the MBP [which I haven't experienced], but apply a balanced view of why and also the competition.

A few things....

1. Apple make 90% of their income not on computers. In my business I focus on the 90% too, not the 10% - I guess Apple do to, so get used to it. If you dont like it, move.
2. Most other laptops have soldered parts, and the others upgrade ssd / ram. Not really that big a deal.
3. Most people don't change the ram or ssd in their computer.
4. Almost every single office I have ever worked in uses desktop PC workstations - this is not Apples business. I don't expect to see them there, and never do. I don't get stressed about this.
5. Apple are a consumer company
6. None of the competition [except MS] make a computer that is actually attractive.

 

[SDColorado]

I do enjoy this thread

It is all well and good knocking Apple as they have messed up in some areas, specifically the Mac Pro and apparent faults on the MBP [which I haven't experienced], but apply a balanced view of why and also the competition.

A few things....

1. Apple make 90% of their income not on computers. In my business I focus on the 90% too, not the 10% - I guess Apple do to, so get used to it. If you dont like it, move.
2. Most other laptops have soldered parts, and the others upgrade ssd / ram. Not really that big a deal.
3. Most people don't change the ram or ssd in their computer.
4. Almost every single office I have ever worked in uses desktop PC workstations - this is not Apples business. I don't expect to see them there, and never do. I don't get stressed about this.
5. Apple are a consumer company
6. None of the competition [except MS] make a computer that is actually attractive.

Good list. 6 of course is in the eye of the beholder and then there is the value of function over form. But a good list

 

[09872738]

1. Apple make 90% of their income not on computers. In my business I focus on the 90% too, not the 10% - I guess Apple do to, so get used to it. If you dont like it, move.
2. Most other laptops have soldered parts, and the others upgrade ssd / ram. Not really that big a deal.
3. Most people don't change the ram or ssd in their computer.
4. Almost every single office I have ever worked in uses desktop PC workstations - this is not Apples business. I don't expect to see them there, and never do. I don't get stressed about this.
5. Apple are a consumer company
6. None of the competition [except MS] make a computer that is actually attractive.

Some fair points. However:

1. If your 90 % business operates in a saturated market would you really ignore the other 10 % segment if that is a market where you could easily up your marketshare?

(...)

6. Agreed. But that tells us more about the competition rather than Apple and is hardly a reason to ignore the market. Isn't it just the other way round - why no take advantage of the competition having no products actually able to keep up?

 

[richinaus]

Some fair points. However:

1. If your 90 % business operates in a saturated market would you really ignore the other 10 % segment if that is a market where you could easily up your marketshare?

(...)

6. Agreed. But that tells us more about the competition rather than Apple and is hardly a reason to ignore the market. Isn't it just the other way round - why no take advantage of the competition having no products actually able to keep up?

1. But they dont really ignore the 10% do they and are the 4th largest computer maker. Also if you make 90% of your money in this 'saturated market' does that mean you are the market leader then?

on your other point, what computers are not able to keep up? I don't understand this. The only segment they dont really cater for at the moment is the desktop that allows component upgrades. I have an iMac pro and love it - its awesome. I did care about the state of the Mac Pro until I got this, and now dont. The MacBook Pro does what it always has done [despite what others may think, it was never a workstation laptop and 6 core I7 / I9 and Vega cpu are very good specs]. The MacBook Air is a nice lightweight machine, and the Ipad pro can do as a basic computer for those who like that [the older generations certainly can cope with an iPad a lot better than a standard pc].

Can you explain what are these things that everyone is doing so much better? And it is their core business mainly [except MS], not 10% of it.

 

[c0ppo]

1. Apple make 90% of their income not on computers. In my business I focus on the 90% too, not the 10% - I guess Apple do to, so get used to it. If you dont like it, move.

Well, once I left Mac, I also left iOS. Only reason I used iPhone was because of ecosystem. Actuall iOS part I never liked, but continued to use it because of the mac. Of course, I'm a minority here, but this just shows you how easy it is to loose a customer.

2. Most other laptops have soldered parts, and the others upgrade ssd / ram. Not really that big a deal.

Not that big of a deal? My current laptop has 2TB of really fast NVME SSD and 32GB of ram. It's an expensive laptop for sure, but those parts are dirt cheap when compared to Apples upgrade prices. And if any of those parts fail at any time, I can just swap them out in a matter of one to two minutes.

If any of yours fail, well, good luck. Actually, if just one key fails on that horrific keyboard, well... Good luck again I guess

3. Most people don't change the ram or ssd in their computer.

True. But lots of pros do that, and MBP supposedly aims for pros?

5. Apple are a consumer company

100% correct.

6. None of the competition [except MS] make a computer that is actually attractive.

Razer Blade looks great. As do Huawei and even Xiaomi laptops. Lenovo has some great looking laptops as well, especially in person. Dell XPS lineup is great looking as well.

 

[jeremiah256]

Abandoned ship? No, but I haven’t signed up for a new cruise either. My MBP 2011 died, but luckily I had a MacBook, several PCs, and an iPad Pro to fill the gap. But all my kit is from 2015. I think I need one more powerful, portable solution to tide me over as my main computer, and in all likelihood, it’ll be another Mac. But, it’s never been this hard before.

 

[richinaus]

Well, once I left Mac, I also left iOS. Only reason I used iPhone was because of ecosystem. Actuall iOS part I never liked, but continued to use it because of the mac. Of course, I'm a minority here, but this just shows you how easy it is to loose a customer.



Not that big of a deal? My current laptop has 2TB of really fast NVME SSD and 32GB of ram. It's an expensive laptop for sure, but those parts are dirt cheap when compared to Apples upgrade prices. And if any of those parts fail at any time, I can just swap them out in a matter of one to two minutes.

If any of yours fail, well, good luck. Actually, if just one key fails on that horrific keyboard, well... Good luck again I guess



True. But lots of pros do that, and MBP supposedly aims for pros?



100% correct.



Razer Blade looks great. As do Huawei and even Xiaomi laptops. Lenovo has some great looking laptops as well, especially in person. Dell XPS lineup is great looking as well.

I use both Mac and PC and much prefer iOS over the competition. I see no real reason to change, and also virtually every person I know who own an iPhone don't own a Mac computer.

Pro's in my business never change anything on their computers. Pro does not mean computer tinkerer.

2016 keyboard on my mbp absolutely fine thanks. And as I have mentioned earlier any other issue I have ever had with Apple has been resolved immediately, in a store with a professional person who understands and speaks English. I have seen Dell support first hand and it was a joke [yes that was a HD failure and Logic board]. Who knows what I would get with Huawei or Xiaomi.

From what I read Razer are not to be trusted in terms of reliability although I agree they look good, and there is no way would I use Huawei or Xiaomi for business. Trust is a big issue here. I am sorry but Dell laptops do not look great to me [that carbon fibre finish is super cheesy and the bottom bezel is simply annoying]. But that is your belief so all good.

I am not defending Apple at all here, but really want comparable alternatives - I don't see Dell, Huawei or Xiaom as direct competition unfortunately.

 

[09872738]

Can you explain what are these things that everyone is doing so much better? And it is their core business mainly [except MS], not 10% of it.

It seems you misunderstood what I was trying to say: I agree the competition does not do that much better - depending on market segment.
As I pointed out (elsewhere) I am in kind of a predicament: I much prefer macOS - or Macs - over Windows. However, not all is good:

1 - Apple charges close to 1000 bucks for a 1 TB SSD. That is absolutely insane. Price increases are just beyond sanity in general.
2 - Macbook Pros are non-upgradeable for no convincing reason at all. My assumption is: to be able to charge as discussed under 1)
3 - Pretty much all features that make me stick to the OS have been introduced with Tiger or even earlier
4 - Customer service. I like the Butterfly Keyboard, but I am undecided on its reliability. Not saying there is a reliability issue (no reliable data on that really) but IF there is they should do repairs even once warranty expired.
5 - There are no consumer/education Macs any more.
6 - Missing desktop pro machine. The iMac Pro is not for me - I got two displays, one 43 inch and a 34 inch. No AIO can provide that screen real estate. And again, pricing is just off the scale.

That said, I agree in that Macs do a lot of things correctly where the competition is not very good.

In conclusion I got two hearts in my chest: One loving the Mac, still. The other realising that Apple apparently got other priorities and the machines they deliver these days cannot compare with what Apple delivered - say - 10 years ago. They actually take more - waaay more - money, but provide less value.
Yet... the competition 's got no appeal at all. See the dilemma?

 

[richinaus]

It seems you misunderstood what I was trying to say: I agree the competition does not do that much better - depending on market segment.
As I pointed out (elsewhere) I am in kind of a predicament: I much prefer macOS - or Macs - over Windows. However, not all is good:

1 - Apple charges close to 1000 bucks for a 1 TB SSD. That is absolutely insane. Prices increases are just beyond sanity in general.
2 - Macbook Pros are non-upgradeable for no convincing reason at all. My assumption is: to be able to charge as discussed under 1)
3 - Pretty much all features that make me stick to the OS have been introduced with Tiger or even earlier
4 - Customer service. I like the Butterfly Keyboard, but I am undecided on its reliability. Not saying there is a reliability issue (no reliable data on that really) but IF there is they should do repairs even once warranty expired.
5 - There are no consumer/education Macs any more.
6 - Missing desktop pro machine. The iMac Pro is not for me - I got two displays, one 43 inch and a 34 inch. No AIO can provide that screen real estate. And again, pricing is just off the scale.

That said, I agree in that Macs do a lot of things correctly where the competition is not very good.

In conclusion I got two hearts in my chest: One loving the Mac, still. The other realising that Apple apparently got other priorities and the machines they deliver these days cannot compare with what Apple delivered - say - 10 years ago. They actually take more - waaay more - money, but provide less value.
Yet... the competition 's got no appeal at all. See the dilemma?

1. yep 100% agree. It is a rip off.
2. to make them thinner really I think. But yes also to encourage upgrades. Most business will be on a 3 year upgrade cycle where it tends not to matter.
3. I agree. But what else do you want? I am not sat here wishing for much at all.
4. I trust Apple over any other manufacturer to make it right. Not saying they are more reliable, but this is an important factor.
5. they are all consumer I would say except for the iMac pro [this is not needed for most people but I utilise it a lot]
6. Agree with this. desktop pro machine is missing, but this is not their priority unfortunately. you can hook up screens to the iMac pro...... the pricing is actually reasonable for what you get, when you start comparing it with a HP Z workstation for example [which is comparable] plus the 5k screen. I really cannot fault the iMac pro [as an AIO].

It is a massive dilemma ! I think we are both on the same page

 

[MichaelDT]

It has always surpassed macOS for pro usability....... but if you look at the prices of the surface book 2 to the macbookpro they are on parity of price. Depends if you need pen input, if not the mbp is a better buy in my view.

It’s not about pen input, it’s keyboard depth. Surface book has a way better keyboard than my 2017 mbp. I haven’t experienced any failure with my mbp, but it sucks to code on, they keyboard is just too shallow. I’d look at other brands but Microsoft gives the Surface line the first party treatment, and they preform well. The detachable screen is just a plus for meetings.

 

[09872738]

5. they are all consumer I would say except for the iMac pro

The machines are. Pricing is not.

It is a massive dilemma! I think we are both on the same page

Absolutely!

 

[richinaus]

It’s not about pen input, it’s keyboard depth. Surface book has a way better keyboard than my 2017 mbp. I haven’t experienced any failure with my mbp, but it sucks to code on, they keyboard is just too shallow. I’d look at other brands but Microsoft gives the Surface line the first party treatment, and they preform well. The detachable screen is just a plus for meetings.

That’s just your opinion though. I personally like the keyboard.
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The machines are. Pricing is not.


Absolutely!

Ok pro consumer

 

[Mendota]

My macbooks are from 2013. I tapped out after they got rid of the magsafe and ports.
Bizare political activism, high prices, weird product lineup, bad quality control, ...
Apple is becoming more and more of a ********. Once Steve was gone it all went downhill.
And Tim Cook is not good at what he does.

I am not sure what I will do in the future.
I am hoping for their iPad Pro lineup to replace their macbooks.

I know the feeling. I enjoy the iPad pro. I just wish they made a better keyboard for it. I would have liked a keyboard made of the same aluminum as the device that fit perfectly over it, with a trackpad and converted it into a claim shell.