Anyone else abandoning ship?

[Tesla1856]

1. Does any windows machine have a touchpad that can rival that of Apple's?

2. Also, unless you buy a Signature Edition from Microsoft directly, one has to deal with all the bloatware.

1. Not that I'm ever seen, but I've only had my hands on machines like:
- 2014 Lenovo X1 Carbon Gen-2
- 2013 HP EliteBook Folio
- 2017 Dell Inspiron 5570 (interesting how they tried to clone the look of the Apple laptops)
- 2019 Alienware Area-51m (desktop replacement laptop)
- various other Dell and Alienware models that I'm not suppose to talk about

2. Business-class Dells have very little. And then, I've never seen a Windows-10 machine that you could not just clean-install the microsoft.com ISO on. And yes, it will Activate as genuine.
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1. The performance difference alone now relegates the older MBP,

2. I would love Apple to actually produce a professional notebook,

Q-6

1. Well, my wife uses a work-issued 2015 MacBookPro 15inch Retina (old/good design) and it's pretty nice ... still.

But yeah, I get you. I meant today's components inside a 2013-2015 MacBookPro and keep the ports (and add TB-3, etc.)

2. Agreed. The post above from @Chairman.Jobbie about the 2018 model is encouraging.

 

[Mendota]

Apple sucked in the 90s for many reasons. A terrible OS. Nothing was compatible with any other system. Very few apps on the Mac. Terrible products, terrible performance, etc. etc. All around junk.

I do agree today's Apple is heading for the 90s again. I don't think it's too many products. I think it's horrendous leadership and zero vision or innovation. Tim Cook is a complacent coward that likes to play it safe. Over the last 8 years, nothing significant has happened. We've changed ports, we've added stupid crap like a touch bar, and we've ended things like the 17" MBP and the iPad mini. It's been incremental changes. They won't change until their bottom line takes a hit, and so far it hasn't.

Don't get me wrong, I still love Apple. I still think their products are the best for me. That says a lot about the competition out there. It was the same in the 80s. Apple floated for a while on the Apple 2 and Macintosh then went totally flat. It took years for them to really tank. Amazon or Google or someone else is going to slap them around soon if they don't step it up.

[doublepost=1550305143][/doublepost]

Apple sucked in the 90s for many reasons. A terrible OS. Nothing was compatible with any other system. Very few apps on the Mac. Terrible products, terrible performance, etc. etc. All around junk.

I do agree today's Apple is heading for the 90s again. I don't think it's too many products. I think it's horrendous leadership and zero vision or innovation. Tim Cook is a complacent coward that likes to play it safe. Over the last 8 years, nothing significant has happened. We've changed ports, we've added stupid crap like a touch bar, and we've ended things like the 17" MBP and the iPad mini. It's been incremental changes. They won't change until their bottom line takes a hit, and so far it hasn't.

Don't get me wrong, I still love Apple. I still think their products are the best for me. That says a lot about the competition out there. It was the same in the 80s. Apple floated for a while on the Apple 2 and Macintosh then went totally flat. It took years for them to really tank. Amazon or Google or someone else is going to slap them around soon if they don't step it up.

Well I have to agree with you on Tim Cook. But I respectfully disagree with you on the competition. You should get out more. There is a reason that Windows is 80% market share, and no it is not because of cheap machines.

 

[badsimian]

I've said this before, for my needs windows is better all in all, because of my job and what I need to do. I gave up some of that effeciency because I enjoy Macs so much, it was only at the point of the issues with the MBP, I decided to give up on the Mac.

This. I loved macOS and its gestures on a Macbook Pro and if someone was to give me a 16GB/1TB one for free I would certainly switch from my XPS But I won't buy at that price and with the issues. I too need Windows for work and it has always been a certain amount of friction to use a Mac. I used to be worth it though. Now it just quite isn't and I'm waiting for next gen...

 

[zzzachi]

I tried to find some new infos about the "announced" new 2019(?) Mac Pro and failed.
I couldn't even find one of the forum threads about it, it seems like people aren't even interested anymore.

If that new Pro ever comes, it will be a rip-off anyways and most likely it wont exist for a long time, too.
I'm tired of the insecurity that they maybe update their machines once in a while (every 10yrs????)
There simply is no trust that Apple gets back to be a reliable partner for a business needing highend computers!

macOS is still better than Windows, but Apples hardware strategy is a total failure.
Over the iPhone/iPad mania they just lost it.

After 2 decades I am leaving Apple.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

I have been on this forum since 2011 when I purchased my first MBP. This forum has turned so much more negative toward Apple. It was about helping people, troubleshooting. I can't believe the turn around in the forum. Mike Flynn you are a Moderator, do you even own an apple product now. All I hear you do is promote MS now. What has this turned into?????

GO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND TALK WINDOWS!!!!!! This place is for MAC HELP!!!!!!

Don't blame the messenger. Times have changed since 2011. Apple has changed since 2011. MacRumors is merely a reflection of people's opinions, just like a forum should be.

More people seem to be disappointed in Apple nowadays than in 2011.

If the truth hurts, it hurts, but don't start kicking around other people for pointing out problems they are experiencing with their Apple products.

 

[maflynn]

Mike Flynn you are a Moderator, do you even own an apple product now.

Yes I do, and I stil like what apple has to offer. I own many apple products if you must know, an iMac, homepod, and apple watch just to name a few. I may be a moderator but that doesn't mean I have turn into a mindless robot without any opinions of my own, spouting pro-apple stuff even if I don't believe it.

All I hear you do is promote MS now

If you're in this thread or a couple of others where people are upset over the problems that apple has had, you know the defective keyboards, the T2 crashing issue, flexgate. Its quite natural to see many people offer advise about other products. You completely missed my other posts in numerous threads where I'm helping other members with their macs or providing buying advise on which mac to buy.

GO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND TALK WINDOWS!!!!!! This place is for MAC HELP!!!!!!

Many people visit other forums, as I do, and I also frequent the alternatives forum. This thread in of itself is a about people's frustration about what people feel is a lack of quality with apple, and so competing products are used in contrast. If you don't like the discussion in this thread you are free to continue scrolling. There are plenty of other threads in the MacBook forum.

 

[_Kiki_]

Does any windows machine have a touchpad that can rival that of Apple's?

Also, unless you buy a Signature Edition from Microsoft directly, one has to deal with all the bloatware.

1. Microsoft Surface, Razer Blade, HP Spectre X360
2. No bloatware in Microsoft Surface and Razer Blade, Aorus is also fine, preinstalled software is useful (they are not Signature Edition)

 

[LeeW]

Microsoft Surface, Razer Blade, HP Spectre X360

None of those have a trackpad to match a Mac in my view.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

None of those have a trackpad to match a Mac in my view.

No, but you forget they have a touch screen, which compensates for the trackpad a lot. Comparing devices on only one aspect (like a trackpad) is not a fair comparison. You have to look at the whole package.

 

[_Kiki_]

None of those have a trackpad to match a Mac in my view.

in 2016-2018 MBP trackpad is too close the keyboard and it's a total mess during usage CMD and OPTION keys, so it's a really bad design

 

[SDColorado]

Does any windows machine have a touchpad that can rival that of Apple's?

Also, unless you buy a Signature Edition from Microsoft directly, one has to deal with all the bloatware.

My Mac came with plenty that I personally consider "bloatware" as well. But I suppose one person's "bloatware" is another person's treasure. I have no need for Garageband, iTunes, Chess, Stickies, the lousy News app, or Photobooth. The list may be different for others.

I personally *do* think Apple has the best trackpad in the business, but one of the worst keyboards. But that is just one mans opinion

 

[maflynn]

Does any windows machine have a touchpad that can rival that of Apple's?

Apple does have one of the best trackpads, and its baffling why now in 2019 there's so few windows machines that are up to the task. Surface is one example of a trackpad that does rival apple's

1. Microsoft Surface, Razer Blade, HP Spectre X360
2. No bloatware in Microsoft Surface and Razer Blade, Aorus is also fine, preinstalled software is useful (they are not Signature Edition)

Surface as I mention is just as good as the Macs, The Razer is in usage with one drawback imo. Palm rejection, i found I was getting more issues with my palm on the Razer Blade 15" then on my 2018 MBP. Other usage and interactions were along the lines of the MBP, just palm rejection.

 

[0388631]

Palm rejection, i found I was getting more issues with my palm on the Razer Blade 15" then on my 2018 MBP. Other usage and interactions were along the lines of the MBP, just palm rejection.

Huh?

 

[maflynn]

Also, unless you buy a Signature Edition from Microsoft directly, one has to deal with all the bloatware.

My Thinkpad X1 Extreme didn't have any bloat where (other then candy crush), it had a few utilities from lenovo that is useful, i.e., the Lenovo Vantage app that you can use to mange the laptop, including changing the cooling preferences, and applying updates.

Less and less computer makers are using bloatware, not to say its completely evaporate, but its less of thing
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Huh?

Palm rejection on the Razer was inferior to the MBP, but aside from that actual usage of the trackpad was great.

 

[JagdTiger]

No, not even close. I own both a 2018 MBP and a gaming MSI laptop. The keyboard, speakers, and trackpad destroy every Windows laptop. Plus, Macs hold their resale value better than any other computer on the market so I don't feel as guilty spending 3-4k on one.

Anything apple does, it’s incredible the recycling price differences but this would be the same if it was a Atari or Amiga computer/laptop and some boutique windows machines like Alienware, Origen etc.
[doublepost=1550327141][/doublepost]

Apple has abandoned us, not otherway around. I'm really tired of people in here defending Apple's way. I don't agree with Apple's all iOS mentality.

What I want to tell Apple is this : leave Mac as is. Improve Mac instead of merging it. No more design before functionality.

The future of apple is iOS or a mixture of Mac and iOS (a whole new os) , the iPad will be the future of macs and will have keyboard, mouse (hmm, a special slot to increase graphics or processor, it will be portable and can be tethered at the same time or even (this can be done) adding a projector with a 150 to 200 inch screen plus a 1 thousand lumens, which would be great for business or theater (film), it’s the jetsons pc.

 

[LeeW]

No, but you forget they have a touch screen, which compensates for the trackpad a lot. Comparing devices on only one aspect (like a trackpad) is not a fair comparison. You have to look at the whole package.

A touch screen has zero value for me personally.

Let's not forget the question, "Does any windows machine have a touchpad that can rival that of Apple's?", not which ones have a touchscreen to compensate for not having as good a trackpad. The trackpad as part of the MBP is a big draw for many.

The idea that touching a screen somehow compensates for poor trackpad operation is mind-boggling.

Sure I can see where a touchscreen can be useful, but as a necessity during normal operation, no.

 

[rayriceroni00]

No, but you forget they have a touch screen, which compensates for the trackpad a lot. Comparing devices on only one aspect (like a trackpad) is not a fair comparison. You have to look at the whole package.

Touchscreens are a joke. Lifting your hands off the keyboard to touch with your fingers isn’t adding productivity or speed. If I want that, I’ll use my iPad. Touch screens have no purpose on a real laptop.
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[doublepost=1550305143][/doublepost]

Well I have to agree with you on Tim Cook. But I respectfully disagree with you on the competition. You should get out more. There is a reason that Windows is 80% market share, and no it is not because of cheap machines.

We’ve discussed this. Zero competition in the 90s plus Microsoft has products for a corporate environment like server, active directory, and exchange. Also don’t forget the bazillion products that run windows.

Bonus: you can buy garbage $200 laptops and desktops that run windows

 

[maflynn]

"Does any windows machine have a touchpad that can rival that of Apple's?"

Yes, and a number have offered examples

Touchscreens are a joke. Lifting your hands off the keyboard to touch with your fingers isn’t adding productivity or speed

Same exact argument applies to Apple's touch bar

 

[rayriceroni00]

Yes, and a number have offered examples


Same exact argument applies to Apple's touch bar

I agree the Touch Bar is a joke. It needs to go.

I have yet to find another touch pad out there that truly rivals Apple. Some are close, but nothing equal.

 

[SDColorado]

A touch screen has zero value for me personally.

Let's not forget the question, "Does any windows machine have a touchpad that can rival that of Apple's?", not which ones have a touchscreen to compensate for not having as good a trackpad.

I know the Touchbar has its fans but honestly, my washing machine has a touchbar that can rival that of Apple's. I think even Apple has come to the sad realization that it just isn't a selling point for many.

I agree the Touch Bar is a joke. It needs to go.

I have yet to find another touch pad out there that truly rivals Apple. Some are close, but nothing equal.

Surface trackpads are a nice glass trackpad, but they aren't quite on par with Apples. Apple also has great sound from laptop speakers. Can't fault them on that.

 

[LeeW]

Yes, and a number have offered examples

Indeed, and I have tried most, like I say (personal opinion), they are not comparable. Bringing a touch screen into the mix is less of a fair comparison of like for like.

I know the Touchbar has its

What has the touchbar got to do with the trackpad though? I believe the person I quoted meant trackpad rather than the touch bar.

 

[rayriceroni00]

I know the Touchbar has its fans but honestly, my washing machine has a touchbar that can rival that of Apple's. I think even Apple has come to the sad realization that it just isn't a selling point for many.

Lol your washing machine. I believe it.

 

[SDColorado]

A bit part of what makes the Apple trackpad as good as it is is the software I believe. From my own experience, I don't find the Apple trackpad is as pleasant to use with Windows as it is with MacOS. Under Windows, it seems to be much more a Windows-like trackpad experience. An issue with the drivers perhaps?

 

[ghanwani]

My Mac came with plenty that I personally consider "bloatware" as well. But I suppose one person's "bloatware" is another person's treasure. I have no need for Garageband, iTunes, Chess, Stickies, the lousy News app, or Photobooth. The list may be different for others.

Bloatware is responsible for slowing the machine down. The macOS apps you mention have zero effect on speed if they are not used.
[doublepost=1550334645][/doublepost]

No, but you forget they have a touch screen, which compensates for the trackpad a lot. Comparing devices on only one aspect (like a trackpad) is not a fair comparison. You have to look at the whole package.

I prefer not to have touch screen. That would be the first feature I would disable if I were forced to get it.

 

[maflynn]

I have yet to find another touch pad out there that truly rivals Apple. Some are close, but nothing equal.

Personal preference to be sure, others disagree. While there are too many windows laptops that do have inferior trackpads, there are many that do not. My opinion is such, that the surface is a really good trackpad, others disagree - so be it. This is less about fact based advantages and more about what the consumer likes, or prefers and your preference may be one thing, others are different. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯