Anyone else abandoning ship?

[turbineseaplane]

Google or Amazon. I love to hate Amazon, but also love to buy from there. It is just so dang convenient, but I am sure my buying habits are in no way private

I've honestly soured on Amazon.

I know too many people who've worked with them (large & small) companies who've just had enough of them not policing counterfeit merchandise on their own platform, which then the actual companies who make the legit merchandise are harmed by - and end up supporting (that customer who bought fake).

..that and I'm exhausted with them constantly looking for tax handouts despite paying no taxes and printing money..the workplace stories...

Hell - my brother works there, does very very well, is not low level at all (truly not at all) - completely ***** hates it and is literally there to make money and leave as soon as he can. Says its a toxic treadmill of pressure/work 24/7/365, etc...

I just wish they'd shape up their act a bit.
I don't know - just rambling I guess, but I find little to enjoy in their "success" personally.

Especially when the "positives" are "crap I probably don't need shows up faster than I need it so I keep buying more and more crap I don't need (or at least not that much of it)"

We have such a HUGE over consumption problem in America.

 

[SDColorado]

I've honestly soured on Amazon.

I know too many people who've worked with them (large & small) companies who've just had enough of them not policing counterfeit merchandise on their own platform, which then the actual companies who make the legit merchandise are harmed by - and end up supporting (that customer who bought fake).

..that and I'm exhausted with them constantly looking for tax handouts despite paying no taxes and printing money..the workplace stories...

Hell - my brother works there, does very very well, is not low level at all (truly not at all) - completely ***** hates it and is literally there to make money and leave as soon as he can. Says its a toxic treadmill of pressure/work 24/7/365, etc...

I just wish they'd shape up their act a bit.
I don't know - just rambling I guess, but I find little to enjoy in their "success" personally.

Especially when the "positives" are "crap I probably don't need shows up faster than I need it so I keep buying more and more crap I don't need (or at least not that much of it)"

We have such a HUGE over consumption problem in America.

I don't disagree with any of this, which is the "Love to hate" part of my comment. But man I just can't help myself. In part because it is so easy and I can just order all manner of stuff in one stop, but also because they have stuff I just can't get locally.

I mean I always make every effort to buy locally when I can. I like to support local businesses or at the very least local jobs when I can, but generally, if you can't find something locally, you can probably find it on Amazon.

Agreed. You only have to use Google as a search engine, visit YouTube, use Android, use Chrome, gMail etc. It is virtually unavoidable.

I do generally avoid Google as a search engine, but it is getting harder to avoid it as a browser since more and more are becoming Chromium based it seems.

IMHO it is therefore trivial discussing which company 'spies the most'. Even if an OS does not collect some data (anonymized or not), than your personal data is collected by means of other program(s) or site(s) (where you bought something). As said, it is unavoidable.

Agreed with this. Despite what claims companies make to protect your data, your data is still collected by means of apps, programs, search history, purchases, etc. The Apps I mentioned in a previous post being prime examples. Even though Apps like ovulation tracker Flo Health claim they are sharing the data to Facebook anonymously, it is still a bit creepy that Facebook is even collecting that kind of data.

 

[turbineseaplane]

IMHO it is therefore trivial discussing which company 'spies the most'.

I guess the only part I'd disagree with is on our actual devices themselves.

Even I have my limits - I don't want my contact list getting auto-harvested in the background (as one of a zillion examples) and certainly enjoy my iMessage conversation being end to end encrypted.

Perhaps, to your point, it's all a losing game, but I'm going to go down swinging as much as I can. - lol
[doublepost=1551287838][/doublepost]

but also because they have stuff I just can't get locally.

Especially when Amazon's entire consumer business was built on investor cash allowing them to run in the red long enough to kill off everything that had to actually "make money"...

It's basically cheating at the "last man standing" game and we've all been complicit and we'll all be the losers ultimately.

AWS is it's own situation at this point and one I think they should be forced to divest. The actual best part of Amazon is AWS really.

Honestly most all these large tech companies need to be broken up at this point.
They are way too sprawling and filled with conflicts of interest.
[doublepost=1551288097][/doublepost]

I don't disagree with any of this, which is the "Love to hate" part of my comment. But man I just can't help myself.

I definitely get what you're saying.
I just personally had enough and had to try to lessen my support of it anymore.

Don't get me wrong - I'm sure there's something that will come up that I have no choice but to buy from them, but just quitting Prime finally last year was a wonderful step.

Once you aren't a Prime member anymore, it's shocking how much you don't look to them as the first place for everything anymore. I can see why they SO BADLY want everyone to have Prime. It's the #1 thing that then gets you to default to shopping on Amazon.

 

[09872738]

Surprised no-one mentioned Facebook. The by far worst of all. Should have been under anti-trust investigations starting a long time ago.

A UK parliament report called them "digital gangsters". Couldn't agree more

 

[turbineseaplane]

Surprised no-one mentioned Facebook. The by far worst of all. Should have under anti-trust investigation for a long time.

A UK parliament report called them "digital gangsters". Couldn't agree more

Yep
Facebook can die in a furnace please
Sooner the better.

Toxic s-hole

 

[SnoFlo]

Not that I disagree. That said, Windows is by no means any better. And let's not forget Microsofts obsession with data collection. Reading their EULA causes me to throw up and keeps me from considering their products.

I also consider macOS the by far less obtrusive operating system; it gets the crucial parts just right.

Literally all the issues I have with Apple and its products are - as @Queen6 stated - bad, bad executive decisions. Fixing those would be very easy - if only they wanted.
I agree with those who believe under Jobs' reign this would not have happened. Yes, he also made bad decisions. However, I really believe he cared about the products and had a desire for getting them right.
I see no such desire this days...



I agree. Locked down OSses, data collection, etc. The duopoly clearly is no good for customers. The massive billions Apple/Microsoft make is no coincidence. BOTH companies massively overcharge customers for the lack of alternatives; those customers are: we all. And we are forced to pay because we don't have a choice really.

Which is why I'd like to see a fresh competitor. Think Linux, but less fragmented

Yeah, I wish. Present the idea of a 'less fragmented' Linux to Linux users and see what happens to you! Omg, they're like fanatics. They like their fragmentation. They say it gives the user 'choice'. I think they like the idea of being on the fringe in the membership of an elitist cult. Oh, mention 'fringe' and they will go crazy too: they will list out all the things that run Linux in the background (like servers etc.)

I tried Fedora 28 (multiple weird bugs in sleep mode). I tried Mint (no working Wifi). I tried Manjaro (total computer lockup). I tried Ubuntu which worked great until I turned on my Quadro video card, omg. If you dare complain about any of these things you are labelled an idiot. You are given some arcane Voodoo code to write to solve the problem (which usually doesn't). You're an idiot for not researching hard enough for a solution to your problem. You're an idiot for not researching hardware compatibility properly. You're an idiot for not running Timeshift properly allowing a rolling release update to bork your system with no recovery. The developers are never the idiots, nooooo, it is you, stupid user.

So you know what? I'm an idiot. Give me Windows, give me Mac OS X.

 

[SDColorado]

Surprised no-one mentioned Facebook. The by far worst of all. Should have under anti-trust investigation for a long time.

A UK parliament report called them "digital gangsters". Couldn't agree more

I made some references to Facebook in a couple of posts, but didn’t touch on some of the more recent stuff like paying kids to download an app to their phones that tracked every thing they did and every place they went. A seriously creepy and honestly, likely dangerous platform.

 

[09872738]

A seriously creepy and honestly, likely dangerous platform.

Yup. In an ideal world, Facebook would be held 100 % liable for the damage done. Zucker/Sandberg would face a jail sentence.
Zuckerberg would be fined an amount matching his total worth plus 10 million. If he's lucky.

 

[RevTEG]

If we had all users (or a large majority) of new MBP's participating on the forum, maybe then we could infer any conclusions from the data here, but we don't and so we can't. This is all just extra data that must be considered along with many other sources to form a full picture.

I mean that in all directions regarding the keyboards.

What's inescapable, however, is these sorts of issues were essentially non-existent before.
So whatever percentage of users are having problems, it's too much vs previous generations.

New and presumably better products shouldn't introduce new problems to key components like this.

I agree. I never had an issue with the butterfly keys failing on my MBPr. They worked, I just hated how they felt to type on. After a couple months trying to adjust I sold it and went out and bought a used 2015 MBPr. Back to the keys I prefer.

 

[iPadSliderz]

Very interesting thread. If you want to explore other hardware and platforms, then go for it.

For me? Not a chance. The Apple ecosystem is fantastic. I love my macs, ipads, and iphones. Apple has always treated me like royalty. Walked in years ago with an ipad that had a dead home button? Walked out with a new ipad in less than 10 minutes. Had an issue on an older mac with the rubber lining on the LCD? Walked in to a store, they sent it away, in 3 days it was back and the entire lining was fixed.

We judge Apple on how good they are compared to the competition. The only real competition is Windows, and really the only laptop that comes close is the surface book. Windows 10 is nauseating, and the surface book is really overrated. Touch screen is worthless to me. It's ugly as sin with the accordion hinge and the endless gaps all over the laptop. The track pad doesn't come close to Apple's.

Use what you like. It's all opinion based.

 

[WickedPorter]

I run our company Jamf management suite and support most of the Macs in a data science business, and have for the last six years. Aside from issues that people are posting about on MR (whether they have had the issue or not), all of the Macs (mostly laptops) I've worked with in the last 10 years (hundreds of them) have been rock solid. Quite a few of them are not treated very well either ... coming back to me for redeployment needing about an hours worth of cleaning work with spilled/caked on food remnants, thick dust, scuffs, marks, scratches, etc. They still work fine with no issues, and most of these are 2016+ MBPs.

Of the 250-300 or so 2016+ MBPs, we had one keyboard failure ... a repeating key. It was noticed within a couple hours of unboxing (so it didn't develop over time, it arrived defective.) It was replaced same day at the local apple store with no issues since.

The point is: People come to forums to discuss and seek solutions to problems they're having... we have a great forum here with a lot of people willing to help come up with solutions for people. I love this about MR. However, people don't generally come to these forums simply to state "hey, my MacBook is awesome. That's all, thanks for reading!"

It's still worth the "gamble" for me ... as the failure odds I've personally experienced among hundreds of these machines is hovering right around 1%.

My MacBook Pro is awesome. That's all, thanks for reading!

 

[MimicBunion972]

After using Apple laptops exclusively for the past 12 years, I am jumping ship. Just want to contribute a bit to this topic.

Between me and my wife, we have had 4 MacBook Pros, 2 MacBook Airs, 1 Mac Mini, countless iPads and iPhones. However our new laptops won't be Mac. Got my wife a Surface Pro Gen 6, she is pretty happy with that. I got a Dell XPS 15 but returned due to screen defects. Now I am waiting for a Thinkpad P1.

I did try the 2016 MacBook Pro when it came out, can't stand the flat keyboard and the missing function keys. Plus I hate dongle life. Couple months ago when the 2018 MacBook Pro was on sell, bought a high-end model and I hoped I can live with it. No that didn't happen. The machine is beautiful but the keyboard is still bad. And for some reason I cannot calibrate the external 4K monitors to my like. I do have a gaming PC. While my old MacBook Pro getting aged, I moved some of my workflow to the PC, where I easily calibrated the color with Spyder 5. I simply cannot do that on the MacBook Pro, could be my fault. Oh and I thought the new Mac will run my Office apps faster, no no, exactly the same speed as my 2013 MacBook Pro. Thanks Micro$oft!

So I looked into the current gen high-end windows laptops, comparing with which Apple's value proposition is absurd. For $1599 I got a Dell XPS with 4K screen, i7 8750 GPU, nVidia 1050 TI, 16GB ram and 512GB SSD. I was impressed with the performance however Dell was cheap on SSD speed, wifi card and screen quality. Now I am getting a Thinkpad P1 for $1900, which comes with 4K, i7 8850, nVidia Quodra P2000, 16GB and 512GB. And I spent another $250 to bump the ram to 32GB, SSD to 1.5TB. The P1 is about the same size and weight as 15 MacBook Pro. P1 is shock proof, splash proof, all parts individually replaceable, and with 4 year onsite service.

I hope the P1 works out. If not I will look for another high-end PC, not a Mac at this time. My 2013 MacBook Pro still works fine, typing on it right now. Maybe one day I will get another Mac, when the gist comes back.

 

[duervo]

I just use whatever tool that I feel is best suited to the task when I’m ready to purchase. Depending on circumstances at the time, that could be Apple, or some other product.

I don’t have any sort of loyalty to one brand over another ... except for Kleenex. Scotties sucks.

 

[Painter2002]

no, your analogy is wrong, I bought a PC laptop, but the iPad it's an expensive toy

The funny part about the analogy of the Surface being a Civic and the Apple being the BMW is that one is more reliable and more affordable to fix/replace when something goes wrong... technically they both can have used (iPad just needs a mouse functionality imo). But it is interesting how the analogy works there.

 

[pshufd]

After using Apple laptops exclusively for the past 12 years, I am jumping ship. Just want to contribute a bit to this topic.

Between me and my wife, we have had 4 MacBook Pros, 2 MacBook Airs, 1 Mac Mini, countless iPads and iPhones. However our new laptops won't be Mac. Got my wife a Surface Pro Gen 6, she is pretty happy with that. I got a Dell XPS 15 but returned due to screen defects. Now I am waiting for a Thinkpad P1.

I did try the 2016 MacBook Pro when it came out, can't stand the flat keyboard and the missing function keys. Plus I hate dongle life. Couple months ago when the 2018 MacBook Pro was on sell, bought a high-end model and I hoped I can live with it. No that didn't happen. The machine is beautiful but the keyboard is still bad. And for some reason I cannot calibrate the external 4K monitors to my like. I do have a gaming PC. While my old MacBook Pro getting aged, I moved some of my workflow to the PC, where I easily calibrated the color with Spyder 5. I simply cannot do that on the MacBook Pro, could be my fault. Oh and I thought the new Mac will run my Office apps faster, no no, exactly the same speed as my 2013 MacBook Pro. Thanks Micro$oft!

So I looked into the current gen high-end windows laptops, comparing with which Apple's value proposition is absurd. For $1599 I got a Dell XPS with 4K screen, i7 8750 GPU, nVidia 1050 TI, 16GB ram and 512GB SSD. I was impressed with the performance however Dell was cheap on SSD speed, wifi card and screen quality. Now I am getting a Thinkpad P1 for $1900, which comes with 4K, i7 8850, nVidia Quodra P2000, 16GB and 512GB. And I spent another $250 to bump the ram to 32GB, SSD to 1.5TB. The P1 is about the same size and weight as 15 MacBook Pro. P1 is shock proof, splash proof, all parts individually replaceable, and with 4 year onsite service.

I hope the P1 works out. If not I will look for another high-end PC, not a Mac at this time. My 2013 MacBook Pro still works fine, typing on it right now. Maybe one day I will get another Mac, when the gist comes back.

I have looked around at Windows laptops and, if I had to (or wanted to) buy a new laptop today, it would be the XPS 15 with InfinityEdge screen. I did not look at the ThinkPad but I have preferred Dell for Windows for a long time. But, I don't have to, as I bought a 2015 MBP 15 several weeks ago and it's running just fine.

 

[richinaus]

I think most people now have abandoned this thread

It seems alternatives to a MBP are currently the Lenovo P1, Dell XPS 15 and maybe the HP Zbook G5. The surface book line is dated [CPU & no TB3].

I honestly don't see how any of these alternatives are better in all ways than the current MBP. Some aspects are but others not. There are no winners, just buy what meets your needs.

I am sticking with Apple.

 

[kis]

But this is just getting ridiculous. I'm serious considering bouncing off to Linux because M$ is just not an option in my mind. I'm not going back to virus hell.

What virus hell? Geez, lots has happened since Windows 95 :-/ But nothing against Linux - if you can stomach all the tinkering and don't need any kind of Microsoft products, Adobe stuff or any other mainstream application for work, go ahead and knock yourself out

 

[MimicBunion972]

I have looked around at Windows laptops and, if I had to (or wanted to) buy a new laptop today, it would be the XPS 15 with InfinityEdge screen. I did not look at the ThinkPad but I have preferred Dell for Windows for a long time. But, I don't have to, as I bought a 2015 MBP 15 several weeks ago and it's running just fine.

The 2 XPS 15 9750 I got, both have massive back-light bleeding, both are 4K by the way. I guess I am spoiled by excellent screens on MacBooks. If you can find a great deal for the 2015 MBP 15, good for you. The 2015 MBPs on Apple and Apple outlet are of abysmal value. I will not pay such a price to get CPU and GPU 3 gens behind.
[doublepost=1551670040][/doublepost]

I think most people now have abandoned this thread

It seems alternatives to a MBP are currently the Lenovo P1, Dell XPS 15 and maybe the HP Zbook G5. The surface book line is dated [CPU & no TB3].

I honestly don't see how any of these alternatives are better in all ways than the current MBP. Some aspects are but others not. There are no winners, just buy what meets your needs.

I am sticking with Apple.

Agree, no alternative is better than the current MBP in every way. MBP is the most beautiful of the bunch, a piece of art. Thinkpad P1 and HP Zbook G5 are actual mobile workstations. MBP is not, it is more like the XPS 15, a prosumer laptop. If you get Vega 20 maybe you can call it mobile workstation. If getting 555x / 560x, that is pretty much junk, that is what you find in sub $1000 windows laptops. It used to be that only compromise you make with MBP is higher price. Now it is too many compromises on top of the higher price. I want a decent looking reliable tool, not a fashion statement. Guess I am not in the intended audience anymore

 

[jinnyman]

The 2 XPS 15 9750 I got, both have massive back-light bleeding, both are 4K by the way. I guess I am spoiled by excellent screens on MacBooks. If you can find a great deal for the 2015 MBP 15, good for you. The 2015 MBPs on Apple and Apple outlet are of abysmal value. I will not pay such a price to get CPU and GPU 3 gens behind.
[doublepost=1551670040][/doublepost]

Agree, no alternative is better than the current MBP in every way. MBP is the most beautiful of the bunch, a piece of art. Thinkpad P1 and HP Zbook G5 are actual mobile workstations. MBP is not, it is more like the XPS 15, a prosumer laptop. If you get Vega 20 maybe you can call it mobile workstation. If getting 555x / 560x, that is pretty much junk, that is what you find in sub $1000 windows laptops. It used to be that only compromise you make with MBP is higher price. Now it is too many compromises on top of the higher price. I want a decent looking reliable tool, not a fashion statement. Guess I am not in the intended audience anymore

I agree. 555 & 560 in MBP with that kind of price tag is insulting actually. As soon as Vega 16 & 20 came out, Apple should have made that a stock option, but, again they are so greedy. The level of performance 555 & 560 are offering is not meant for 2018 level in a highend laptop category, and as soon as AMD made Vega available, Apple should have fixed their error.

 

[snowboarder]

Thinkpad P1 and HP Zbook G5 are actual mobile workstations.

I just checked, I can get a P1 with 64GB RAM!!! Holy cow.

 

[agaskew]

I just checked, I can get a P1 with 64GB RAM!!! Holy cow.

In theory, any machine with an 7th/8th Gen Intel CPU and 2 RAM slots should support 64GB RAM. It seems to be only Thinkpads that have it as a BTO option. There are a few reports on reddit of people successfully putting 64GB in to XPS 15s (9560 and 9570 models).

 

[maflynn]

Thinkpad P1 and HP Zbook G5 are actual mobile workstations.

The X1 Extreme is Lenovo's non-workstation and speaking from first hand experience, its a great laptop, fast, powerful, better GPU (Nvidia 1050-ti) then the stock 555x/560X. The keyboard is light years ahead of what apple is providing, including being spill proof. 14k screen is gorgeous, and I don't have any heat issues, or throttling that is besetting this generation's MBP

It may not have the sexy lines of a MBP, but at this point if you compare apples to apples, I paid 2,286 (with incentives) for my configured X1E, and a similarly configured MBP would have run me 4,300
[doublepost=1551697952][/doublepost]

This certainly strikes a chord!

25-Year Macintosh Aficionado and Fanboy Abandoning Ship from The S.S. Apple https://link.medium.com/wfdxNTkrGU

People come and go to be sure, but there does seem t be an uptick on long term apple fans leaving. I don't think Apple is doomed, I do think think there is an erosion of Apple's core and most dedicated fan base.

I hope the P1 works out.

I have its sister machine, the X1 Extreme, and just like what I said above, its a great machine. I wanted the 1050-Ti over the Quadra 6000 other then that, they're sister machines.

Agree, no alternative is better than the current MBP in every way. MBP is the most beautiful of the bunch, a piece of art.

I don't want to buy a piece of art from Apple, but rather a well made laptop. Just consider the issues of the past few years, staingate, keyboard failures, flexgate. Some (many?) MBP owners also had to deal with T2 causing kernel panics, coil whine, and speaker crackles. The new GPU introduced new bugs like the flickering screens.

Apple markets itself as a premium computer maker but the proof is in the pudding these 2,500 -> 4,000+ laptops have had way too many issues and yet so many people defend the product saying its so well made, but is it really so well made when apple needs repair program after repair program?

 

[09872738]

People come and go to be sure, but there does seem t be an uptick on long term apple fans leaving. I don't think Apple is doomed, I do think think there is an erosion of Apple's core and most dedicated fan base.

Very well said. Full Ack. Those people (consider myself one of those) have brought quite a few people to the Mac. I do not see that happening any more

 

[MimicBunion972]

I just checked, I can get a P1 with 64GB RAM!!! Holy cow.

Yes, on P1, you pay $165 to upgrade from 16GB to 32GB. Or pay $545 from 16GB to 64GB. That is before coupon code.
Meanwhile Apple asks for $400 to upgrade from 16GB to 32GB. If Apple has the 64GB option, I wonder how much that would be, $1200? Any RAM touched by Apple turns gold.

 

[maflynn]

have brought quite a few people to the Mac.

I started using macs during the Macintosh SE days, though that was only sporadic, but that all changed with the Bondi Blue iMac and I was all in at that point.

I do not see that happening any more

Likewise, I was willing to pay the apple tax when I felt I was getting value for my money, but for a variety of reasons, I can no longer justify spending 2x of what I could get on the windows side.