Anyone else abandoning ship?

[PeterJP]

It's just whether it is worth me buying a second hand 13" 2018 model now with Applecare vs waiting and seeing if anything new appears at WWDC.

I'm definitely in the waiting boat. I wanted to upgrade when I started playing with VMs. But I set up servers (ProxMox) both at work as well as in the office that are more capable of doing that. So my late 2013 13” is still okay for all the other work I do on it.

TM is definitely better then any of the solutions I've seen in windows. I'm mostly on OneDrive at this point and so much of my data is in the cloud and so a backup solution like TM is less of an issue.

I used to file-copy my data as well. Worked really well for, don't know, 15 or 20 years or so. But with a NAS full of stuff and a couple more PCs in the house, it's all a bit of a hassle. Happy I can just let the Mac do its thing and not bother. But yeah, file backups are also a good discipline. I remember not caring if I had to reinstall everything. I had the files and the computer was clean again.

 

[jerryk]

You are obviously right. It's not that I'm looking at Windows problems to justify a Mac. I've used several types of computers and all of the recent OSses for plenty of use cases, including hobbies, entertainment, but also for servers, development, as the base for new camera systems, and much more.

When you're using computers for several technical purposes for a long time, you start noticing when something behind the scenes is badly implemented. The registry isn't beautiful, but it doesn't bother 99,99% of the users. Or more.

Aside from that aspect, I still like the user interface and included tools (Time Machine!) of macOS much better than Windows.

Interesting. I really don't find TM much more useful than Windows Backup. Both automatically periodically copy files to my NAS. Both let me exclude files and folder. Both keep multiple versions of files. Both have a GUI that let's me see all the versions and recover the version I want. Not sure what more I need out of a backup solution.

 

[badsimian]

Interesting. I really don't find TM much more useful than Windows Backup. Both automatically periodically copy files to my NAS. Both let me exclude files and folder. Both keep multiple versions of files. Both have a GUI that let's me see all the versions and recover the version I want. Not sure what more I need out of a backup solution.

AFAIK Windows Backup doesn't produce something you can restore an entire machine from. You can literally boot with no OS on a Mac and restore your entire system from the TM backup if it can see it on the network. This has saved my bacon a number of times over the years.

You have to use a product similar to Macrium Reflect on a PC to achieve the same I think and even then restore is far from straight forward, having to create boot restore media etc.

 

[jerryk]

AFAIK Windows Backup doesn't produce something you can restore an entire machine from. You can literally boot with no OS on a Mac and restore your entire system from the TM backup if it can see it on the network. This has saved my bacon a number of times over the years.

You have to use a product similar to Macrium Reflect on a PC to achieve the same I think and even then restore is far from straight forward, having to create boot restore media etc.

interesting. I can say in my Apple usage I have never had to restore a Mac from a backup. Files and folders yes, but never an OS machine wide installation. This goes all the way back to the original Mac.

 

[c0ppo]

interesting. I can say in my Apple usage I have never had to restore a Mac from a backup. Files and folders yes, but never an OS machine wide installation. This goes all the way back to the original Mac.

Well, every time I moved from one mac to other I would use my TM backup.
What I find really useful is that it restores everything. Every little tweak and setting that I have made.

That's the main reason I use it till this day. Sure, most of my files are on cloud, and on my NAS. I can easily restore those without a TM. But reinstalling everything, and then setting up everything again, every little tweak, every little setting... Well, that gets to be annoying really fast.

With TM, there is no need for that at all.

 

[jerryk]

Well, every time I moved from one mac to other I would use my TM backup.
What I find really useful is that it restores everything. Every little tweak and setting that I have made.

That's the main reason I use it till this day. Sure, most of my files are on cloud, and on my NAS. I can easily restore those without a TM. But reinstalling everything, and then setting up everything again, every little tweak, every little setting... Well, that gets to be annoying really fast.

With TM, there is no need for that at all.

For me getting a new system is a good time to start fresh. Over time I tend to clutter up my systems with applications and data I use once or twice, and never use again. So when I get a new system I use that as an opportunity to force myself to decide if I really need something on the system or is just using up space. I have everything backed on the NAS and glacier storage anyway so if I decide later I need it, I can get it back.

 

[Queen6]

Well, every time I moved from one mac to other I would use my TM backup.
What I find really useful is that it restores everything. Every little tweak and setting that I have made.

That's the main reason I use it till this day. Sure, most of my files are on cloud, and on my NAS. I can easily restore those without a TM. But reinstalling everything, and then setting up everything again, every little tweak, every little setting... Well, that gets to be annoying really fast.

With TM, there is no need for that at all.

I use the old and remaining Back up and Restore, it works flawlessly. I create a System Image which is a perfect snapshot of the system and revert as needed to differing images. Only time I ever set up Windows on a machine is the first time, the rest I use System Images to revert to known good SW installs. It literally takes a few minutes with any working data then sync'd from an encrypted cloud server.

I can reset my primary W10 system in such a sort period of time now, thx to SSD to SSD transfer speeds it's now often the better way to clean up the machine. I work internationally and always travel with two machines, each has multiple System Image and reverting either is both quick and painless. If your setting up W10 every time over, your really punishing yourself for no reason...

Q-6

 

[DarthVader!]

I would use my TM backup.

Time Machine is one of those apps that is a head scratcher. Its a great app and one has to question why we don't have such an automated, integrated option in Windows.

Apple does some things very well, and credit is due for this simple but effective backup solution. I've yet to find a solution in the windows world that is as simple and easy to use.

 

[joeswamp]

Time Machine is one of those apps that is a head scratcher. Its a great app and one has to question why we don't have such an automated, integrated option in Windows.

Apple does some things very well, and credit is due for this simple but effective backup solution. I've yet to find a solution in the windows world that is as simple and easy to use.

I think designing simple apps like this is a lot harder than it looks. For whatever reason, Apple just really knows how to design software that works well with humans. I suspect they go through a lot of iterations.

In contrast, I was just using the Microsoft "snip" tool at work to cut and paste several images from a web page to a word doc (so my younger daughter could work out her math homework on paper). I noticed that every time I performed a "snip", the snip tool would move itself to obscure the web page I was working with, so I then had to manually move it out of the way (so I could perform the next "snip"). This task was not a lot of work, but because of this poorly designed tool the amount of work was doubled.

Now multiply those lost few minutes of productivity by every time any person has used the snip tool...

 

[petvas]

I use the old and remaining Back up and Restore, it works flawlessly. I create a System Image which is a perfect snapshot of the system and revert as needed to differing images. Only time I ever set up Windows on a machine is the first time, the rest I use System Images to revert to known good SW installs. It literally takes a few minutes with any working data then sync'd from an encrypted cloud server.

I can reset my primary W10 system in such a sort period of time now, thx to SSD to SSD transfer speeds it's now often the better way to clean up the machine. I work internationally and always travel with two machines, each has multiple System Image and reverting either is both quick and painless. If your setting up W10 every time over, your really punishing yourself for no reason...

Q-6

I have tried using this on my Surface Book 2 and it never made a flawless backup. It always had difficulties backing up all files, so I couldn't really rely on it. At the end I used Acronis True Image, but I prefer Time Machine and the way it works on the Mac. This is an area where macOS is simply better.

 

[Queen6]

I have tried using this on my Surface Book 2 and it never made a flawless backup. It always had difficulties backing up all files, so I couldn't really rely on it. At the end I used Acronis True Image, but I prefer Time Machine and the way it works on the Mac. This is an area where macOS is simply better.

System Image has never failed and this machine has over a million files, nor ever presented issue with any other machine, so no inclination to change. OS X always used SuperDuper, have used Time Machine, although prefer the former.

Q-6

 

[c0ppo]

System Image has never failed and this machine has over a million files, nor ever presented issue with any other machine, so no inclination to change. OS X always used SuperDuper, have used Time Machine, although prefer the former.

I've tried using Backup and Restore to transfer my Win10 installation to a second drive. It failed. Used Macrium later on, no issues what so ever.

It's kinda hard to compare Backup and Restore to Time Machine, because TM is in the league of it's own, and MS solution still uses 'Windows 7' name when doing backup, even though I can't even install Win7 on my laptop even if I wanted to.

 

[MBAir2010]

I BENT THE KNEE TODAY!
dell xps 13 incredible photo editing, faster typing, sharp image, unfraying chord, super fast, solid and beautiful cover
my favorite aspect is the backlight keyboard which is enough so i can see.
so far i'm very very happy!
i will install unbuntu design soon for a better computing experience.
and will return advising those who need apple help as i have done in the recent past.
anyone need an macmini 2012, mojave 10gb ram?

 

[badsimian]

I BENT THE KNEE TODAY!
dell xps 13 incredible photo editing, faster typing, sharp image, unfraying chord, super fast, solid and beautiful cover
my favorite aspect is the backlight keyboard which is enough so i can see.
so far i'm very very happy!
i will install unbuntu design soon for a better computing experience.
and will return advising those who need apple help as i have done in the recent past.
anyone need an macmini 2012, mojave 10gb ram?

I've been on a Dell XPS 13 for 6 months. In its own way it is a fine machine, good 4K screen, decent keyboard. Comes with fast NVMe drive, quad core, 16GB of RAM, Windows Hello face recognition...but...at the end of the day I just prefer and miss Mac OS. Windows 10 isn't *bad* as such. It is just day to day workflows and usage are much nicer on a Mac I find. I say this as someone who spends their days architecting solutions around Microsoft products for a job too.
I'm waiting for the new (hopefully) 16" MBP in order to move back.

 

[MBAir2010]

I've been on a Dell XPS 13 for 6 months. In its own way it is a fine machine, good 4K screen, decent keyboard. Comes with fast NVMe drive, quad core, 16GB of RAM, Windows Hello face recognition...but...at the end of the day I just prefer and miss Mac OS. Windows 10 isn't *bad* as such. It is just day to day workflows and usage are much nicer on a Mac I find. I say this as someone who spends their days architecting solutions around Microsoft products for a job too.
I'm waiting for the new (hopefully) 16" MBP in order to move back.

the reason i left apple was their apps, Mojave is incredible, but their apps are horrible.
i am looking at my 6 apple products with disgust now and wondering why they are here.
stupid 'airbook wont charge all of the sudden and the mini is a dumb brick

 

[LeeW]

Well, I said some pages back I was out of this thread as it was just a revolving conversation going nowhere. But, I came back to it with good reason.

I bought a new 2018 13" MBP a couple of months ago, today it went back to the Apple Store, spacebar was starting to miss maybe one out of every 5/6 presses, then the r key went a couple of days ago and at the same time, the t key was repeating itself.

I kicked up so much **** in the store when all they offered was to send it away for repair that the manager agreed on a refund after I made it abundantly clear I wasn't some amateur when it came to Apple products or the keyboard issues.

So I am down to my Mac Mini which I am really happy with and in truth the MBP was simply to allow occasional portability, not a great loss although that is not the point.

Not really that bothered, as I have said all along until it happens to me, I am not going to worry about it. Now it has and I got my money back, so will look for a Windows laptop and will need some recommendations from you all

Just thought I would give @Queen6 and @maflynn the chance to say I told you so

 

[Mendota]

Well, I said some pages back I was out of this thread as it was just a revolving conversation going nowhere. But, I came back to it with good reason.

I bought a new 2018 13" MBP a couple of months ago, today it went back to the Apple Store, spacebar was starting to miss maybe one out of every 5/6 presses, then the r key went a couple of days ago and at the same time, the t key was repeating itself.

I kicked up so much **** in the store when all they offered was to send it away for repair that the manager agreed on a refund after I made it abundantly clear I wasn't some amateur when it came to Apple products or the keyboard issues.

So I am down to my Mac Mini which I am really happy with and in truth the MBP was simply to allow occasional portability, not a great loss although that is not the point.

Not really that bothered, as I have said all along until it happens to me, I am not going to worry about it. Now it has and I got my money back, so will look for a Windows laptop and will need some recommendations from you all

Just thought I would give @Queen6 and @maflynn the chance to say I told you so

I am sorry to hear that happened to you, but am really happy that you were able to get your money back. It is too bad for those that really like MacOS and need a portable machine. For recommendations, well I use Surface products and I love the Surface Book that I have. It is first gen, but it is still going strong, I7, 512, 16 gigs. I do everything on it, code, paint, game, write. It has never let me down. When I first purchased it there was a battery issue in the base, Microsoft service was first rate. They sent me a new one in two days and I swapped out the base. No other problems after that.

 

[LeeW]

I love the Surface Book

I am gravitating towards a surface book, my shortlist:

1. Surface book
2. Surface Laptop
3. Dell XPS 13
4. Razer Blade Stealth

In honesty 4 is out, every site I look at that has customer reviews, the blade is poorly rated.

 

[Queen6]

Well, I said some pages back I was out of this thread as it was just a revolving conversation going nowhere. But, I came back to it with good reason.

I bought a new 2018 13" MBP a couple of months ago, today it went back to the Apple Store, spacebar was starting to miss maybe one out of every 5/6 presses, then the r key went a couple of days ago and at the same time, the t key was repeating itself.

I kicked up so much **** in the store when all they offered was to send it away for repair that the manager agreed on a refund after I made it abundantly clear I wasn't some amateur when it came to Apple products or the keyboard issues.

So I am down to my Mac Mini which I am really happy with and in truth the MBP was simply to allow occasional portability, not a great loss although that is not the point.

Not really that bothered, as I have said all along until it happens to me, I am not going to worry about it. Now it has and I got my money back, so will look for a Windows laptop and will need some recommendations from you all

Tense is wrong for many of us now it's "abandoned" being more apt. $4,250 before tax with a keyboard that's inherently flawed. APPLE clearly doesn't understand this, so no sale not privately or professionally, you've already lost my business just when do you plan to wake up...

Thx to Apple we're now 100% Windows as no one using a notebook professionally suffers nonsense like this, pity FarceBook is already taken, as that's exactly what it's become with Apple...

Q-6

 

[Mendota]

I am gravitating towards a surface book, my shortlist:

1. Surface book
2. Surface Laptop
3. Dell XPS 13
4. Razer Blade Stealth

In honesty 4 is out, every site I look at that has customer reviews, the blade is poorly rated.

I am thinking of getting this https://slimbook.es/en/kde-slimbook-2-ultrabook-laptop as I recently purchased a PineBook for $99. It has been a fun experiment, but this will have more power. I also have a Surface Laptop that I won from Microsoft points. It too has been flawless and it is slimmer than the Book. The Book has the dedicatied gpu and that is one of the reasons I use it most of the time.

 

[ATC]

I am gravitating towards a surface book, my shortlist:

1. Surface book
2. Surface Laptop
3. Dell XPS 13
4. Razer Blade Stealth

In honesty 4 is out, every site I look at that has customer reviews, the blade is poorly rated.

We have a SL2 and it's really great except for one thing; the alcantara material they use for the palm rest area. My wife works with paper/pens a lot near the laptop and she already marked it pretty good with a pen, we could not remove the mark. This is something that's never happened on our MBPs as it's really easy to wipe away marks on aluminum. Not so much on the alcantara material which is a shame.

 

[LeeW]

the alcantara material they use for the palm rest area.

Yeah, that does put me off them, I have seen a few reviews where the palm rests are in a nasty condition through normal use. I suspect if you are someone who puts perfume/aftershave on your wrists it will affect the material over time as well as eating, drinking, pen marks and so on.

Nothing would annoy the hell out of me more than a mark in the material I can't get out and will have to live with until it dies or is replaced.

 

[ATC]

Yeah, that does put me off them, I have seen a few reviews where the palm rests are in a nasty condition through normal use. I suspect if you are someone who puts perfume/aftershave on your wrists it will affect the material over time as well as eating, drinking, pen marks and so on.

Nothing would annoy the hell out of me more than a mark in the material I can't get out and will have to live with until it dies or is replaced.

My wife and I really liked the material at first, it felt nice to work on but in hindsight, now that it's marked, we wish it didn't have it.

 

[SDColorado]

Just thought I would give @Queen6 and @maflynn the chance to say I told you so

I am very sorry to hear it happened to you as well. I am happy to hear that you got your money back. I wish I had stayed away when I had gotten mine back and didn't try another round. I am on #5 and have had issues with this one as well.

Best of luck to you with whichever Windows laptop you choose. Keep us informed on whatever you dial in on.

Yeah, that does put me off them, I have seen a few reviews where the palm rests are in a nasty condition through normal use. I suspect if you are someone who puts perfume/aftershave on your wrists it will affect the material over time as well as eating, drinking, pen marks and so on.

Nothing would annoy the hell out of me more than a mark in the material I can't get out and will have to live with until it dies or is replaced.

I have had good luck with the Alcantara on my Surface Pro 2017. I have had it going on 2 years now and it still looks good. I clean it occasionally with Sonax Upholstery and Alcantara cleaning foam.

Edit: Of course the advantage with the SP over the SL2 is that you can replace the key cover if the Alcantara gets too nasty, but so far it has not. But they should have maybe made the pads replaceable on the SL2. Surface Book of course there is no Alcantara to worry about

 

[maflynn]

Just thought I would give @Queen6 and @maflynn the chance to say I told you so

Nah, that's not my style. Bummers on the problems man