Anyone else abandoning ship?

[turbineseaplane]

Same here. But none of which is paying for subscriptions. Recurrent billing is not exactly popular over here, in particular for questionable value

Hmm - opposite problem in my family.
I'm like the only one who's diametrically opposed to all these subscriptions.

Some of them subscribe to Spotify, Pandora AND Apple Music - just in the music niche.
TV can be Netflix, Hulu, YouTubeTV, HBONow
Add in Adobe, Office 365 and a few others - maybe some iCloud bump up..

Ridiculous.
I don't get it or agree with it, but I'm starting to notice something.

I'm the one who's different - not them.

I think the same thing applies to us here on this niche forum space regarding Mac's and much of Apple's direction overall.

 

[LeeW]

*Shudder* What potential customer plays along with this? The iPad Pro is a great device... but if you are correct I wonder who's gonna pay for all these subscriptions? Certainly not me. Noone I know will, for sure.

Many pay for icloud storage, apple music, some will pay for news+, maybe they pay for apples new streaming services and a couple of others. That will be $20 a month please, oh wait, give us $30 and we will give you all that plus a few more..

I would not be surprised at how many would pay it.

 

[Mendota]

For all the faults the MBP has, at least when it does get sent away for repair, you do end up with your original device back.

My experience in sending a £2k Surface Book back for a simple repair, was to end up with a tatty refurb, minus the nice original box and packaging I had returned it to M$ in.

It was heartbreaking to receive a tatty refurb with marks on it as a replacement for my 5-week old pristine machine I wanted repairing.

I kicked up a fuss. Got a complete refund. And very reluctant to touch M$ again. Pity as it was a nice machine, apart from effin Windows updates every time you turn it on.

A Dell XPS 15 and an older MBP 2015 are the current weapons of (forced) choice.

That is very strange, I had an older machine (six months) and they replaced it with a entirely new one. I didn't actually need anything except the base so I swapped that out. Given as new as yours was I suspect that someone made a mistake in the paperwork and they thought it was older. Either way I wouldn't accept an tatty refurb, but would insist on a like for like. Most people that I have encountered have been quite happy with Microsoft's service. And really you need to stop with the M$ bit, given that Apple price gouges more than anyone on the market.

 

[09872738]

Unbelievable... maybe its just because I'm the old fart who doesn't really get why on earth I'd need a music subscription service. The music I like is mostly in my iTunes collection already. There is simply no need for any sort of subscription. Especially because today's "modern" music is so bad they'd have to pay me to listen to it.

 

[Mendota]

*Shudder* What potential customer plays along with this? The iPad Pro is a great device... but if you are correct I wonder who's gonna pay for all these subscriptions? Certainly not me. Noone I know will, for sure.



Still... strange. The Mac business is still a billion dollar business. And they could easily triple revenue if only they tried with sane products. So what's the point in ignoring it? Even though other segments may be bigger in revenue numbers, why not take and run the profit? It'd be so easy having macOS at their hands.
Xcode / Swift 5 are great tools; Swift in particular is a pretty awesome language. Why develop all this just to abandon the Mac?
What's more: if Apple has no desire in pursuing the Mac business, why not just release Xcode and tools for Windows (or, dare I say, Linux) and call it a day? There is no discernible sustainable strategy here...

Well, my hope is that now that their phone business is showing some signs of fatigue, they may take a renewed interest in the Mac. I hope that Tim is starting to see the light and realizes that just being a phone company, even with services is not the best way to go.
[doublepost=1557357672][/doublepost]

Hmm - opposite problem in my family.
I'm like the only one who's diametrically opposed to all these subscriptions.

Some of them subscribe to Spotify, Pandora AND Apple Music - just in the music niche.
TV can be Netflix, Hulu, YouTubeTV, HBONow
Add in Adobe, Office 365 and a few others - maybe some iCloud bump up..

Ridiculous.
I don't get it or agree with it, but I'm starting to notice something.

I'm the one who's different - not them.

I think the same thing applies to us here on this niche forum space regarding Mac's and much of Apple's direction overall.

I subscribe to a lot of things, many of which you listed. I have a whole Office document to keep track of all of them and the various accounts. I don't mind and actually like the subscription model for a lot of things. My HP ink sub saves me a lot of money and it quite convenient. before I would have either lots of wasted ink on hand or not enough. And the Office sub gives me Access and Publisher things I use to have to buy separately
[doublepost=1557357774][/doublepost]

Unbelievable... maybe its just because I'm the old fart who doesn't really get why on earth I'd need a music subscription service. The music I like is mostly in my iTunes collection already. There is simply no need for any sort of subscription. Especially because today's "modern" music is so bad they'd have to pay me to even listen to it.

I agree about the music.

 

[SDColorado]

For all the faults the MBP has, at least when it does get sent away for repair, you do end up with your original device back.

My experience in sending a £2k Surface Book back for a simple repair, was to end up with a tatty refurb, minus the nice original box and packaging I had returned it to M$ in.

It was heartbreaking to receive a tatty refurb with marks on it as a replacement for my 5-week old pristine machine I wanted repairing.

I kicked up a fuss. Got a complete refund. And very reluctant to touch M$ again. Pity as it was a nice machine, apart from effin Windows updates every time you turn it on.

A Dell XPS 15 and an older MBP 2015 are the current weapons of (forced) choice.

They have changed that policy since your Surface Book experience. They took in my Surface Pro 2017 due to an issue with the MicroSD slot. Got a mint replacement with 0% wear on the battery. Not bad after nearly 2 years use. My original one had some mild scratches and scuffs. Not 100% sure if it is "new" or refurb, but there is absolutely no way to tell the difference. They say they are "not for retail sales models" and generally are models where the retail box was damaged to the point where they could not sell it as is. In any case, not a scratch, scuff, fingerprint, stray piece of dust or any sign whatsoever that it had any use.

 

[MBAir2010]

Well, I said some pages back I was out of this thread as it was just a revolving conversation going nowhere. But, I came back to it with good reason.

I bought a new 2018 13" MBP a couple of months ago, today it went back to the Apple Store, spacebar was starting to miss maybe one out of every 5/6 presses, then the r key went a couple of days ago and at the same time, the t key was repeating itself.

I kicked up so much **** in the store when all they offered was to send it away for repair that the manager agreed on a refund after I made it abundantly clear I wasn't some amateur when it came to Apple products or the keyboard issues.

So I am down to my Mac Mini which I am really happy with and in truth the MBP was simply to allow occasional portability, not a great loss although that is not the point.

Not really that bothered, as I have said all along until it happens to me, I am not going to worry about it. Now it has and I got my money back, so will look for a Windows laptop and will need some recommendations from you all

Just thought I would give @Queen6 and @maflynn the chance to say I told you so

Dell xps 13 is incredible, i got home opened up the laptop, pressed my thumb on the sensor, opened opera, tab select mlb, streamed a game, took 28 seconds. Typing, lighting usb c port are superb, very sturdy i recommend this laptop alot! I run linux software and ignore windows alerts crap but find windows 10 reliable and as responsive as Mojave, which i loved, i hope this helps!

 

[JamesTheMac]

The issue with receiving the tatty Surface replacement was in February this year.

I’m in Europe though, so maybe they have a different policy over here. The unit was picked up by UPS and taken back to Germany. I received a secondhand unit a few days later, back here in the U.K.

As far as quoting M$, it’s perfectly valid to do so. For along with Amazon and Apple, they regularly take the top spot in breaking the trillion dollar mark, although it’s mainly due to their web services.

I’m not dissing the Surface products in general. As I said. I liked the product, and have a couple of older Surface Pros that have served me well over the years. But here in Europe we do not have walk in M$ shops, so maybe the backup service is not as good as it is in the US. My experience has put me off using their product, as I tend to look after my kit, and I’m worried that if I need to call upon service in the future, I’ll end up with someone else’s more abused tat. Maybe Apple and Dell will do the same, but so far, (fortunately) I haven’t experienced poor quality replacements.

BTW it wasn’t M$ that refunded me. They weren’t interested. I insisted in a refund from Amazon, who after explaining the situation were quite helpful. - although I was concerned that they might think it was me trying to offload a dodgy device back to them, as it was marked, and had no original packaging any more.

Still, that was that.

Good to hear support seems better in the US, I wish they’d replicate it over here.

 

[MBAir2010]

Everyone rates the surface thing as the best computing product now.
Aren't they disposable, as the ram, hd soldered in?
What goos is that?

 

[JamesTheMac]

Aren't they disposable, as the ram, hd soldered in?
What goos is that?

Same as portable Macs then.

The XPS 15 does refreshingly allow for user upgrades of the storage, memory, and WiFi. But it does come at the expense of adding a few extra mm in depth to the device - something I can put up with.

 

[SDColorado]

Good to hear support seems better in the US, I wish they’d replicate it over here.

Yeah, I definitely had a different experience here, though I had a store to walk in to. I was having an issue with the MicroSD card being ejected, finding the card again, being ejected again.

I brought it in and after several card swaps it actually stopped doing it. In retrospect it was probably a little debris or something that got into it. I travel with it all the time, even on my motorcycle and it has been subjected to dust, dirt, ash, etc. I should have thought to blow the slot out with some compressed air, but I didn’t.

Despite the fact that it actually stopped doing it, the tech simply said “your under warranty, so rather than risk you coming back with the same issue, we are just going to replace it for you. So they swapped my used with with relatively normal wear and tear for one the was new or at least indistinguishable from new condition. I can’t complain.

Everyone rates the surface thing as the best computing product now.
Aren't they disposable, as the ram, hd soldered in?
What goos is that?

As James said. No different from portable Macs. Maybe more similar to iPad/iPhone. Rather than sending it off for weeks to replace the top case as they do with the Macs, they simply replace the unit.

 

[SDColorado]

Sorry for your grief, I've owned Mac's for over 20 years, it's such a shame that Apple has sold out in this fashion. Once Apple did truly design & produce the very best it possibly could. Today Apple merely produces what can make the most margin to appease the stockholder.

Really saddens me to see the marque fall so low

How the Apple Store Lost Its Luster
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/com...re-lost-its-luster/ar-AAB1jin?ocid=anaheimntp

 

[Mendota]

The issue with receiving the tatty Surface replacement was in February this year.

I’m in Europe though, so maybe they have a different policy over here. The unit was picked up by UPS and taken back to Germany. I received a secondhand unit a few days later, back here in the U.K.

As far as quoting M$, it’s perfectly valid to do so. For along with Amazon and Apple, they regularly take the top spot in breaking the trillion dollar mark, although it’s mainly due to their web services.

I’m not dissing the Surface products in general. As I said. I liked the product, and have a couple of older Surface Pros that have served me well over the years. But here in Europe we do not have walk in M$ shops, so maybe the backup service is not as good as it is in the US. My experience has put me off using their product, as I tend to look after my kit, and I’m worried that if I need to call upon service in the future, I’ll end up with someone else’s more abused tat. Maybe Apple and Dell will do the same, but so far, (fortunately) I haven’t experienced poor quality replacements.

BTW it wasn’t M$ that refunded me. They weren’t interested. I insisted in a refund from Amazon, who after explaining the situation were quite helpful. - although I was concerned that they might think it was me trying to offload a dodgy device back to them, as it was marked, and had no original packaging any more.

Still, that was that.

Good to hear support seems better in the US, I wish they’d replicate it over here.

Yea for Amazon.. One of my favorite companies. I don't care how big they are...

 

[turbineseaplane]

Yea for Amazon.. One of my favorite companies. I don't care how big they are...

hmm

I do.

I'm not interested in having exactly one company left in all of retail, which is what we are currently headed for.

You should care too. That's not good for you, or anyone.

 

[Queen6]

I understand their desire to sell more services, it's a very lucrative market, but, the only way it makes sense to maximize that by doing what they never wanted to do. Sacrifice margin to grow market share.

But, when you see the future as iPhone/iPad then it starts to make more sense where they are going. In years to come, the laptop market, Apple's market, will fade in favour of the iPad in whatever form that takes.

The average consumer will have the choice of the iPhone and iPad in the sensible price range with an IoS/macOS hybrid OS. Which is where the services will be targetted. Everything will be locked down tighter than it is today. Everything you do on the devices will require some payment, ending up with it being cheaper to pay Apple a monthly subscription to access all areas.

Services, mass market, portable devices excl laptops. That is where they are going.

Personally I think you are very close to what's going to happen. Apple has it's mind set on bigger things than the Mac, even to the point of cannibalising it or redefining it's role. I wont be surprised at all if the next generation of MBP is even further diluted as that's the trend.

Q-6
[doublepost=1557378054][/doublepost]

How the Apple Store Lost Its Luster
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/com...re-lost-its-luster/ar-AAB1jin?ocid=anaheimntp

Never visit the Apple Store's these days, once they used to be stocked with interesting tech from multiple companies, today they are mostly empty space. To me Ahrendts only served to make the Apple retail experience worse and more confusing, so good riddance...

Q-6

 

[Mendota]

hmm

I do.

I'm not interested in having exactly one company left in all of retail, which is what we are currently headed for.

You should care too. That's not good for you, or anyone.

Amazon is now offering 1 day delivery. I don't have an issue with a company whether it is Amazon, Apple, or Microsoft that is making money honestly. The problem in the US is with companies such as the over sized investment banks that are pretty much run by crooks. They are mostly always responsible for the financial breakdowns and problems. Of course there was Eron. But other than the tax issues (which they are using US tax loop holes) I can't find fault with Amazon, Microsoft, or Apple. It is up to the other retailers to compete. And some things just can't be like they use to be. People really don't enjoy the Mall "experience" as much as the small stores would like. It is sad, but true. I always hated going out shopping, and where I live a lot of things in new tech just are not available locally. Amazon made a real difference for people like me.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Amazon is now offering 1 day delivery. I don't have an issue with a company whether it is Amazon, Apple, or Microsoft that is making money honestly. The problem in the US is with companies such as the over sized investment banks that are pretty much run by crooks. They are mostly always responsible for the financial breakdowns and problems. Of course there was Eron. But other than the tax issues (which they are using US tax loop holes) I can't find fault with Amazon, Microsoft, or Apple. It is up to the other retailers to compete. And some things just can't be like they use to be. People really don't enjoy the Mall "experience" as much as the small stores would like. It is sad, but true. I always hated going out shopping, and where I live a lot of things in new tech just are not available locally. Amazon made a real difference for people like me.

Honestly, there's so much to respond to there, but I'm not going to as it's super off topic of this thread.
Have a good one

 

[Mendota]

Honestly, there's so much to respond to there, but I'm not going to as it's super off topic of this thread.
Have a good one

I respect your opinion and I don't feel you have to agree with me. I was just explaining my experiences.

 

[agaskew]

The average consumer will have the choice of the iPhone and iPad in the sensible price range with an IoS/macOS hybrid OS. Which is where the services will be targetted. Everything will be locked down tighter than it is today. Everything you do on the devices will require some payment, ending up with it being cheaper to pay Apple a monthly subscription to access all areas.

Services, mass market, portable devices excl laptops. That is where they are going.

Yep - Sealed appliances delivering subscription services. This is the iOS/iPhone model that they are looking to expand across the other product lines.

To paraphrase Henry Hill in Goodfellas:
"My keyboard broke"
"F*** you, pay me"
"I want to upgrade my storage"
"F*** you, pay me"

(And, remember the original iPhone presentation, when Steve Jobs told everyone "The iPhone runs OS X"?)

 

[1146331]

If Apple doesn't un**** their keyboard, my next tablet & phone will not be Apple devices. Instead of spending $2k to buy a new MBP, I bought a 2014 model used. That means not only do they not get my money for their hardware, but all the services I have with them will be transferred to Google and Microsoft, thus losing [albeit a very small] stream of monthly money from me.

 

[LeeW]

If Apple doesn't un**** their keyboard

If there is anything we can be reasonably sure of its that the next generation will have a redesign in the name of progress rather than an admission that the current design is wrong. As we all know though, the issue is that they could get it wrong again.

I suspect there will be a refusal to make anything bigger, meaning they will simply try to redesign the keyboard again in the hope it works at our expense of being the lab rats.

If they do something silly like only redesigning the keyboard of the MBP it will be an acknowledgement of the issue and people will stop buying the other lines until they are updated. Maybe not a bad thing.

For me, now that I have returned my MBP and had a refund the next purchase is a Windows Laptop, once I have it, assuming I like it, Apple won't tempt me back to the MBP.

I added up how much I have spent on Apple hardware in the past 5 years across my family of five. Rounded down it has been £21k ($27k). Maybe not the biggest spender but that is a loss no company, however big should overlook from one customer.

 

[1146331]

If there is anything we can be reasonably sure of its that the next generation will have a redesign in the name of progress rather than an admission that the current design is wrong. As we all know though, the issue is that they could get it wrong again.

I suspect there will be a refusal to make anything bigger, meaning they will simply try to redesign the keyboard again in the hope it works at our expense of being the lab rats.

If they do something silly like only redesigning the keyboard of the MBP it will be an acknowledgement of the issue and people will stop buying the other lines until they are updated. Maybe not a bad thing.

For me, now that I have returned my MBP and had a refund the next purchase is a Windows Laptop, once I have it, assuming I like it, Apple won't tempt me back to the MBP.

I added up how much I have spent on Apple hardware in the past 5 years across my family of five. Rounded down it has been £21k ($27k). Maybe not the biggest spender but that is a loss no company, however big should overlook from one customer.

This.

On another note, if Apple truly just wants to kill the Mac, I wish they'd sell OS X off so it can live on using better quality hardware (Lenovo ThinkPad, Dell XPS, etc.). The only thing the Mac product line has going for it is the fact it runs Mac OS X as well as has the ability to run Windows / Linux.

I personally am very happy with this 2014 MBP, I think this is the year the design was perfect..... with the exception of the unique SSD standard they used. Keyboard is great, screen is great, speakers are louder than my 2012 MBP. Perfect weight, perfect thickness.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but functionality relies on being able to provide input to the device.

 

[LeeW]

I wish they'd sell OS X off

We all know as do Apple that if you could buy a macOS licence and install it on anything you like then their hardware sales would die, quickly. Even if they charged $300, the hardware I would put it on plus the $300 licence would still be cheaper than the basic MBP with touch bar.

The reality though is that if it did happen it would turn out like Windows and get bloated fast as it would need to work with such as diverse range of hardware. We can only dream

 

[1146331]

We all know as do Apple that if you could buy a macOS licence and install it on anything you like then their hardware sales would die, quickly. Even if they charged $300, the hardware I would put it on plus the $300 licence would still be cheaper than the basic MBP with touch bar.

The reality though is that if it did happen it would turn out like Windows and get bloated fast as it would need to work with such as diverse range of hardware. We can only dream

Though in Microsoft's defense, the majority of bloat is from needing to support ancient Windows applications and hacked together workarounds for enterprise users.

Mac OS.... doesn't have the enterprise problem! (And no, not because of a Unix foundation).

 

[LeeW]

Though in Microsoft's defense, the majority of bloat is from needing to support ancient Windows applications and hacked together workarounds for enterprise users.

Mac OS.... doesn't have the enterprise problem! (And no, not because of a Unix foundation).

Agree, that was not a swipe at Microsoft, just the way it is. It needs to try and be everything for everyone no matter who you are or what hardware you use.

macOS is in a different place as you would expect when one company can choose all of the hardware and optimize it to suit. A closed eco-system has benefits, even if they are largely sided with the owner of the eco-system.

But then if your issue on Windows is that you are struggling with RAM, drop in 16GB to replace 8GB for under $100 or replace the SSD with an NVMe, no need to replace the whole machine. Sure there are many brands moving down the soldered on route for laptops but the fact is you can avoid that by choosing wisely and providing yourself with an upgrade path down the line if you want it.