Agreed. Most of my clients are enterprises, and they would have a fit if Microsoft cut off legacy support the way Apple does with MacOS. And don't get me started on how you can no longer run 32-bit apps on an iPhone...
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Anyone else abandoning ship?
- Thread starter ibivibiv
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Agreed. Most of my clients are enterprises, and they would have a fit if Microsoft cut off legacy support the way Apple does with MacOS. And don't get me started on how you can no longer run 32-bit apps on an iPhone...
Exactly.
But to be honest... a lot of this "bloat" doesn't really impact your day-to-day operation.
My windows desktop is over 5 years old (4th generation Intel)... and it's got a Windows installation from September 2018.
I just did a cold-boot and it took a grand total of 23 seconds to reach the desktop. And that includes the BIOS/post screens. The SSD is a big reason for fast booting.
And I have tons of software, devices, drivers, and other stuff installed... much more than a "normal" person would have. But my computer still runs like a dream!
I always hear about "Windows Bloat" but I've never been affected by it. And I'm someone who would notice.
It does depend a lot on the drive, I mean you can outpace even the most bloated Windows install with the right hardware. Often I get family/friends complaining about how slow their machine is, changing the bulk of the 78 programs from "run at startup" usually fixes it
It does depend a lot on the drive, I mean you can outpace even the most bloated Windows install with the right hardware. Often I get family/friends complaining about how slow their machine is, changing the bulk of the 78 programs from "run at startup" usually fixes it
Yep! If you see dozens of programs running in their system tray... run away.
But that's the user's fault... not Microsoft's.
If we're gonna talk about Windows "bloat"... then that's a different topic than the user having a bunch of things in startup.
Bloat from a general user point of view is different from what bloat actually is of course. I guess the real issue is that the average user sees a slow system as being "bloated' because of anything other than something they have done. Honestly, I have never come across someone with a slow running system that would even think to look at what runs at startup and how that could affect the startup time.
In fact, every user I come across sees time from power on to desktop being visible as the benchmark for how slow their machine is overall...
Windows seems to want you to turn on more things or turns them on by default. Apple tends to ask you a long list of questions with the default that they aren't turned on. I tend to prefer Apple's approach as I just want to get the OS up and running and then will decide later on. I don't like having to turn things off; especially when they make it hard.
And what's up with Windows turning back the default browser to Edge or whatever when you upgrade?
Well, if we are going down that route.
Why won't Apple let me use Spotify from a homepod without a sub-optimal workaround?
Why can't I have an Nvidia eGPU?
Why won't Apple give me mouse support on the iPad that is supposed to replace my laptop?
And so on...
The answer? It's their ball, even though I paid for it, they decide how I play with it.
Answer to your question? 10 seconds after the upgrade to change the default browser back to what you want.
I don't use Spotify.
I can get an nVidia GPU on a 2014 MacBook Pro.
Because the iPad is not a computer!
I haven't had Edge reset to default on my ThinkPad for about a year, then again I also wait 30 days for security updates and 365 days for feature updates
.Too bad MS disabled the group policy feature on Windows 10 "Pro" that disabled the consumer experience, getting rid of the literally crapware that Windows 10 comes pre-installed with now. I don't want Candy Crush on any computer I own, and most certainly not on a "Pro" version of Windows.
But Apple and Microsoft are neglecting their Pro users..... [cue in somebody claiming it will be the year of Linux..... soon....]
Sorry, I didn't realise you were posting on the basis it was all about you, you and only you.
[doublepost=1557435194][/doublepost]
Wow, you're dead to me...
1 - not an argument generally applicable
2 - a pretty lackluster one (I know, my MBP's got one of these) given its 2109. And they deny us CUDA, the reason we urge for nVidia in the first place. Try some demanding stuff (genetic algorithms, machine learning) and you see the GT 750Ms limitations right away.
3 - plain wrong. The iPad actually is a computer, it's got a mighty powerful CPU along with a very capable GPU. Only thing holding it back is software
Why won't Apple let me use their device they advertise as notebook replacement for development/programming?
Last edited:
Thanks for the kind replies, all.
When I visited the Apple Store with our company's CEO, we were pretty clear that as a writer, the keyboard issues were an unacceptable pain point for me and I'd already moved onto another machine. However, the rest of our company still uses all Macs, and we were happy to take a credit for the defective MacBook Air and reconsider the lineup whenever Apple does address these issues. (I almost wrote "inevitably addresses," but we are three generations in here ...)
But their refusal to offer any acceptable remedy soured us so much that not only can I not imagine considering any MacBook in the foreseeable future, but our CEO is considering moving the entire company away from Apple. We have all been hardcore Mac users for many years, and several members of our company met while working together at what began as a Mac-only B2B software startup.
It's probably true that Apple realizes they are losing Mac customers, but they must see the consequences of this as trivial. If there are people at Apple who consider this to be a major problem, they don't appear to be in decision-making positions at the company. But it would be very short-sighted to assume that losses in the Mac division will be limited in impact to the Mac division.
Just as positive word of mouth brought exponential numbers of new users to the platform, negative word of mouth will exacerbate the negative market effects that Apple is already suffering.
Welcome back
Unfortunately, your story is becoming more common than the "I love Apple products as they never let me down" alternative.
What I am sure Apple realise is that they are killing the loyal clients who have supported them not over a few years, but decades. I feel certain that the next MacBook line up will be a complete redesign to get away from the thin, unreliable models of the last three generations of keyboard, clearly too late for many.
When I visited the Apple Store with our company's CEO, we were pretty clear that as a writer, the keyboard issues were an unacceptable pain point for me and I'd already moved onto another machine. However, the rest of our company still uses all Macs, and we were happy to take a credit for the defective MacBook Air and reconsider the lineup whenever Apple does address these issues. (I almost wrote "inevitably addresses," but we are three generations in here ...)
But their refusal to offer any acceptable remedy soured us so much that not only can I not imagine considering any MacBook in the foreseeable future, but our CEO is considering moving the entire company away from Apple. We have all been hardcore Mac users for many years, and several members of our company met while working together at what began as a Mac-only B2B software startup.
It's probably true that Apple realizes they are losing Mac customers, but they must see the consequences of this as trivial. If there are people at Apple who consider this to be a major problem, they don't appear to be in decision-making positions at the company. But it would be very short-sighted to assume that losses in the Mac division will be limited in impact to the Mac division.
Just as positive word of mouth brought exponential numbers of new users to the platform, negative word of mouth will exacerbate the negative market effects that Apple is already suffering.
Thanks for the kind replies, all.
When I visited the Apple Store with our company's CEO, we were pretty clear that as a writer, the keyboard issues were an unacceptable pain point for me and I'd already moved onto another machine. However, the rest of our company still uses all Macs, and we were happy to take a credit for the defective MacBook Air and reconsider the lineup whenever Apple does address these issues. (I almost wrote "inevitably addresses," but we are three generations in here ...)
But their refusal to offer any acceptable remedy soured us so much that not only can I not imagine considering any MacBook in the foreseeable future, but our CEO is considering moving the entire company away from Apple. We have all been hardcore Mac users for many years, and several members of our company met while working together at what began as a Mac-only B2B software startup.
It's probably true that Apple realizes they are losing Mac customers, but they must see the consequences of this as trivial. If there are people at Apple who consider this to be a major problem, they don't appear to be in decision-making positions at the company. But it would be very short-sighted to assume that losses in the Mac division will be limited in impact to the Mac division.
Just as positive word of mouth brought exponential numbers of new users to the platform, negative word of mouth will exacerbate the negative market effects that Apple is already suffering.
Well-said. I just hope this issue is being considered seriously at apple. If they do come out w/ redesigned mbp this year w/ new keyboards, then it means they did. Otherwise nah...
4th time lucky, Apple's burnt too many bridges with it's vanity for this poor excuse of a keyboard...
Q-6
I added a ship out of necessity and I can't stand it.
For some technical aspects of my work, I need ubuntu (or linux). Thanks to the fact that Apple in it's infinite wisdom decided to implement the T2 chip (hence ruining the ability to run linux) I was forced to buy a $3300 thinkpad x1 extreme.
It's a great machine with great build quality, but for actually interfacing with a computer the #1 most important thing is the touchpad. And no matter what anyone does, Mac is so far ahead of every other touchpad in the world that other manufacturers should be embarrassed. Using the thinkpad is a chore compared to my macbook pro, even though it's the better machine from a technical standpoint.
I really am pissed off Apple won't let me run ubuntu on this machine...triple booting would make it an absolutely amazing professional machine.
For some technical aspects of my work, I need ubuntu (or linux). Thanks to the fact that Apple in it's infinite wisdom decided to implement the T2 chip (hence ruining the ability to run linux) I was forced to buy a $3300 thinkpad x1 extreme.
It's a great machine with great build quality, but for actually interfacing with a computer the #1 most important thing is the touchpad. And no matter what anyone does, Mac is so far ahead of every other touchpad in the world that other manufacturers should be embarrassed. Using the thinkpad is a chore compared to my macbook pro, even though it's the better machine from a technical standpoint.
I really am pissed off Apple won't let me run ubuntu on this machine...triple booting would make it an absolutely amazing professional machine.
Apple certainly still makes the best trackpads in the business, but I've found the trackpad on my X1 Carbon to be fine, if a bit on the small side. But after dedicating some time to learning to use the TrackPoint I ended up vastly preferring it over any touchpad for cursor movement and even for scrolling, both because of how fast it is and how comfortable it is to be able to navigate without moving my hands from the machine or shifting my shoulder around.
That said, if you enjoy the gestures on OS X a lot I can see how the trackpad would be a big downgrade. I personally never relied on them that much, and prefer using keyboard shortcuts to get around. In that sense, the keyboard is way more crucial for me to interface with the machine than the keyboard. I've found Windows to be way faster to navigate in with its keyboard shortcuts, and obviously the stellar keyboard on the ThinkPad helps.
I actually grew up using a trackpoint on various thinkpads back when I was a windows fanboy (before they ruined it with Windows 8) and I loved it. The issue here is that linux lacks proper drivers - the trackpoint in windows is great, in ubuntu it sucks.
The annoying thing about Apple is that it truly could be the best of all worlds. The damn OS is on a unix base...just be a bit more open and we could have it all.
The annoying thing about Apple is that it truly could be the best of all worlds. The damn OS is on a unix base...just be a bit more open and we could have it all.
Have you considered Windows Subsystem for Linux, especially version 2?
[doublepost=1557463504][/doublepost]
Personally, I prefer a touch screen over a large trackpad. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Why can't you use Linux in a virtual machine, e.g. using Parallels or VMWare? I need Windows for work, and while I have installed Windows 10 on BootCamp, I'm always using it through a Parallels virtual machine. The performance lost is really negligible with only about 5%. I couldn't use a real Windows PC in my home office because using VPN connection to work would cut me off my local net (printer and storage). Therefore, even on a PC I would run the "work Windows" in a VMWare virtual machine (not yet tested).
I used to do the same before I phased out my 2013 MacBook Pro. Highly recommended.
I wonder what happens to BootCamp and virtual machines when Apple moves the Mac to the Ax CPUs.
Different strokes I guess. I believe the #1 most important thing is the keyboard and the current Apple keybpard is embarrassingly bad. Poor travel and pitch, poor reliability. As far as Apple trackpads, I would agree that Apple has by far the best trackpads, but others aren't as embarrassingly behind Apple. The butterfly keyboard, on the other hand, is truly an embarrassment for which Apple really should be embarrassed beyond a half-hearted apology.
While I like many aspects of my 2018 MacBook Pro, I personally have no issue using a ThinkPad or SurfaceBook over it. The touchpads are maybe not as good, but the keyboards are far superior and like Robnsn2015, I also like the touch/pen aspect.
But to each their own, and if touchpad and gestures are your primary means of interfacing with your computer, I can appreciate why you would think the Mac is leaps and bounds better in that regard.
Most likely they go away
bootcamp is simply a method to allow you to install windows on your mac. Technically you don't need bootcamp to run windows. If Apple rolls out ARM based Macs then the only possibility to run windows is to use the ARM version of windows but that's no guarantee since not every ARM cpu is capable of running windows. In all likihood, and imo, running windows on a Mac will be a thing of the past if Apple goes with its Ax processors instead of intel processors.
Virtualization, is a different matter, that's running a virtual machine and the intel CPUs have hardware baked into the CPUs to allow this, at this point Apple's Ax CPUs don't seem to have this. That means running multiple Vms from macOS is not something that would be possible with an ARM based Mac.
Back when Macs were on the PPC platform, the only way to run windows was to emulate an intel CPU and emulation was incredibly slow - painfully so and given the high demands of today's software, it may be worse. I don't think emulation is a feasible option to running windows if Apple does indeed transition to an ARM based processor.
For me, ARM won't work. I won't develop something on ARM that needs to run on x86. That just adds a layer of unpredictability that is too easy to avoid.
I develop and use windows, mac, and various flavors of linux in virtual machines. Once it is mac only/ARM, the full generic commercialization will have occurred and it will be the equivalent of a more expensive iPhone/iPad. I like my iPhone and iPad and they are useful for what the do but I won't/can't do any real work on them. At that point the decision will be to use a windows or linux host for development.