Anyone else abandoning ship?

[pshufd]

I prefer a mouse the vast majority of the time though there are some times when I like a trackpad and I sometimes have keyboard, trackpad and mouse set up. I like the precision of mice over trackpads.

 

[Mendota]

Not to get off topic, but does anyone know someone who has been able to run Linux with the T2 chip. I have always duel booted my Macs with Mint.

 

[mick2]

Not to get off topic, but does anyone know someone who has been able to run Linux with the T2 chip. I have always duel booted my Macs with Mint.

I believe that you can boot into Linux if you switch the T2's secure boot off; however, I've also heard that there are problems with Linux installs not recognising the SSD drives in the latest MBPs as they use a proprietary Apple controller that isn't available in the Linux kernel.

 

[computerpro3]

not true: https://www.imore.com/no-apples-not-locking-you-out-linux-macs-t2-chip

Wrong, it's 100% true. I can't install linux on the internal SSD as a result of the T2 chip. The ONLY way to get linux on a mac is to install it on an external SSD. Just for ***** and giggles I tried to do this, but the linux installers don't even have native keyboard or trackpad support.

So you want to run linux on a T2 mac? Sure, you can - but you have to have an external drive plugged in at ALL times (the T2 has the apple proprietary SSD controller embedded in it), AND you have to have an external keyboard and mouse for the install.

Or, you could just do what I did and buy a more powerful Thinkpad that works out of the box, even if I prefer using the interface device on my mac.
[doublepost=1557551355][/doublepost]

Not to get off topic, but does anyone know someone who has been able to run Linux with the T2 chip. I have always duel booted my Macs with Mint.

100% impossible unless you install to an external drive. Apple has the SSD on lockdown with the controller in the T2 chip.
[doublepost=1557552797][/doublepost]

Because it doesn‘t maybe. Not yet, at least

That's like saying nothing is preventing you from going to the moon. Technically, nothing is really holding you back. It's just that you can't practically do it due to lack of money, family commitments, lack of access to a space ship, etc.

Sure, nothing is preventing you from installing linux on a T2 mac. It's just that you can't practically actually USE it since you can't install to the internal SSD, need external keyboard and mouse for the install (which means finding dongles with native linux support), etc, etc.

There is literally not even enough ports for me on a macbook pro to have one for an external SSD and plug in my required work peripherals (two ETTUS B200 Minis and two Analog Devices Signal generators).

 

[maflynn]

Not to get off topic, but does anyone know someone who has been able to run Linux with the T2 chip. I have always duel booted my Macs with Mint.

100% impossible unless you install to an external drive.

I think you can, but you need to change the security started up and select no security in the secure boot section. I will say that I no longer have a MBP and there's no way for me to test this, so there's that caveat. You may be right but I thought you could with the correct security configuration

 

[computerpro3]

This does not help. That merely lets you install linux on an external SSD.

The issue is, Apple has embedded the SSD controller onto the T2 chip and there is no linux support or drivers for it since its Apple proprietary. So no OS that isn't signed can even access the ssd controller. The actual SSD that is soldered onto the motherboard is raw flash with no controller.

Unless Apple gives you permission, you aren't installing anything on these laptops.

 

[AppleTrap]

..Windows will remain Windows

Agreed. The unfortunate truth of our times.

 

[LeeW]

Consistency vs inconsistency, I will let you choose which one relates to Apple and which for Microsoft.

I mean, I want Apple to do better, but they don't appear to feel the same.

Keyboard issues on 2016, 2017 and 2018 MBP
Stage lighting issue on 2016 and 2017 MBP due to a cable being too short (assumed fixed in 2018)
Popping speakers on MBP
SSD failures on the MBP
Component failure on the MBP causing the battery to fail and expand
Bridge OS errors due to T2 chip affecting macOS hardware
Bending iPads
Slowing older iPhones
Light bleed on S4 watches
Bulging batteries on S3 & S4 watches
iPhone X not responding to touch
and so on...

There are twelve repair programs currently active for faulty devices. Three relate to the MBP, that is keyboard faults, SSD failures and battery replacement due to them expanding.

The most ardent Apple supporters (me included) can't just keep looking the other way even if the devices you currently have work fine. The roll of a dice to determine whether you get a device that will last is not the way to treat customers, that is what is happening, at least with the MBP at the moment.

Tell me of any other high-end manufacturer that has this level of history for unreliability on such a small range of devices?

 

[c0ppo]

Of course people will switch, if the performance is great. macOS is worth it, Windows doesn’t come close for a lot of people (yes, pros, depends on your field and needs) and only people who want to justify their Windows laptop purchases claim that Apple is giving up on pro users. No, the type of “pro” user that @Queen6 (or people like Linus who mistake productivity for benchmarks) keeps talking about was never a Mac user in the first place.

Hi Aevan. Just now I realised we speak (almost?) the same language. After 1-2 years of quoting each other in english language. Pa di si brater?

So hi to Serbian friend, a Croat here. (pisat cu na engleskom da nas svi razumiju). I think out of all people on this forum, you will get my point before anyone else. Your country is 'run on Windows', just like mine country. So any official papperwork is done in ms office. Am I mistaken? I highly doubt so, since I do 50% of my work in Serbia (betting games, from sports matches, to texas holdem games).

Anyway, I now the 'startup' (I really hate that term!) scene in Belgrade, Zagreb, Budapes, Wiena, etc. really good. Since it's most of my work these days, and I was often in Belgrade, but mostly in Budapest and Zagreb in the last 2 years.

Well, most of the mentioned cities, and countries as well, operate on Windows. So it means ms office document format, and windows servers. I hate the latter from bottom of my heart, because windows servers are a complete joke to anything in opposition.

But my point is, in 10-15 years or so, in these countries, I couldn't find a single company that does their business mostly on Mac OS. Actually, it was 80% windows, 19% Linux. That 1% I found was a company in Serbia/Croatia that had a monopoly on newspappers and cigarettes in those two countries. That's where I fell in love with Mac OS, because until then, I had no reason even to try it out, let alone make money off of Mac OS.

10 years after that, most of 'startups' (ughhh...) used Mac OS and MBP's in Balkan area, or even Austria and Hungary. And I could see why, because I did the same. But in the last 2 years, just like myself, those teams are abandoning Mac OS in droves. Not because of Mac OS, but because of macs. Why? Well, one could write a book about that 'why' question just by browsing these forums.

Simply put, if you want a PC, nothing will beat a PC. Don’t expect a Mac to focus on the same things. If you want a Mac, for the reasons that make a Mac great, a great ARM cpu will be a benefit.

Well, the thing is, most of macs users I know, most of companies that used macs... Well, they all switched from PCs to macs. Not it's the other way around. Since we are from the same region, and speak the same language, please, if you are interested in details, contact me via PM. I will explain further. But from tomorrow I'm in Italy, and I have no desire to use a smartphone/laptop/anything internet related, so I will contact you in thursday

Even the whole issue of ARM vs Intel, perhaps Apple will produce something faster and better than Intel has available at that time, but will it really make a difference to the masses? I mean I doubt the vast majority of users fully utilise what processor they have today, so anything faster tomorrow is just going to be a more underutilised component than the last.

No one knows if eventual Axx chips in macs will be more powerful or not. But I do believe that's not the point. How long will it take for software to transition to new architecture? How many years until major issues are ironed out? Because believe me, there will be major issues. Most of fanboys on these forums claims that MBP wasn't ever built to be a powerhouse, and that most of users don't care about throttling or lacking of GPU power.

Well, I would agree on those statements always. And would never try to argue otherwise, because MBP was never ment to be something like Alienware. But at the moment, you are claiming otherwise? Why would ordinary MBP user care about more powerful chip? Especially if software is laging behind, like it will in the start of the transition?

I think you can, but you need to change the security started up and select no security in the secure boot section. I will say that I no longer have a MBP and there's no way for me to test this, so there's that caveat. You may be right but I thought you could with the correct security configuration

Nope. That won't help. It's either external HDD/SSD, or no native Linux. Tx chips are doing just what Apple wanted them to do. Lock and control.

 

[Jg75]

I'm on 2017 MBA max spec.
I'm on iPad Pro a10x Touch ID Max spec.
I'm on iPhone 8 64 GB. (Touch ID).
I refuse to believe that Apple will throw all Its user-friendliness down the toilet.
The software platform is terrific. If I had to escape ship, I would have to start using google chrome, and store all my passwords over there. For starters. However, the Apple platform is still the best. As long as you choose the right hardware. The android phone market is a freaking mess. IT's a freaking mess. Thank god I still can use my iPhone 8.

 

[LeeW]

The android phone market is a freaking mess.

In what way?

 

[Jg75]

In what way?

I don't know where and how my phone is backed up.
I get multiple apps for storing my photos even Google have made a solution for this.
I get multiple web browsers nagging me for this and that.
If the freaking phone manufacturers would respect Google, I would probably make the shift. However, they don't.

 

[LeeW]

But I am always told by the Android world that none of these issues exists, you choose the backup method, the apps, the browser and so on. Your phone, your way.

 

[Jg75]

But I am always told by the Android world that none of these issues exists, you choose the backup method, the apps, the browser and so on. Your phone, your way.

Yes, they all say so. But the only 1 stop shop is apple. I am reading interestingly about android one, or what the heck it's called. It is interesting that someone is taking up the competition against Apple's pricing. I think in the future there is a separation between hardware and software. Google has a good position here if they could get the freaking hardware manufacturers (like Samsung) to get their fingers off the software. I'm not interested in Samsungs browser or photo app.
Of course, centralized storage of photos and messages etc is a political hot potato anyway. I trust Apple more than the others at the moment anyway, it's an American company. Who knows what the future looks like. Cheers and love from Norway.

 

[c0ppo]

If I had to escape ship, I would have to start using google chrome, and store all my passwords over there. For starters.

Why is Chrome the only choice? I've jumped ship, and I refuse to use Chrome or any of Google services (besides youtube, but I have plans on abandoning that as well). I use Vivaldi most of the time, on macs I always used Safari with Vivaldi. For passwords I use 1Password on mac/win/linux. Why? Cross platform of course. I would never trust a single multinational company with my passwords.

Even when I was only using macs, 1Password was my main password utility, never keychain. I always figured if I had to leave Mac OS, keychain is worthless. Or even just leaving Safari, keychain is again mostly worthless.

And 1Password is far from only solution, there are dozens out there. Maybe 1Password isn't even the best, I can't know, since 1Pass does all I need from such service, and never failed me. So I have no reasons to try anything else.

Why would you need to use Chrome? I find Chrome to be too simplistic, something like Safari. But Safari is lightning fast when compared to Chrome, uses way less RAM, CPU and there is not Google spying on me. So I see no benefit on using chrome on any platform.

However, the Apple platform is still the best.

In what way? Apple says their focus now is on services. But their services are far behind their competitors services. And I don't mean just big names like Google/MS/Amazon, but even some names most of the people never heard about. I can give you a lot of examples on why I consider it to be that way, and I don't mean on profit numbers (those are easily available to anyone, and Apple is way behind), but practical reasons to why I consider it to be that way.

Can you give me the reason to consider Apple services are even ok?

As long as you choose the right hardware.

That would be all great, if I could pick MBP alternative running Mac OS. But there isn't any. And MBP is a faulty product.

I don't know where and how my phone is backed up.

If you want any android phone, just use google backup. Any phone (besides some China brands that are specific to China market) will backup to google without any additional setup from the user. So no matter what backup you want, google is the default backup. Sony/LG/Samsung/HTC/OnePlus/Pixel/etc. All of those will use google as their backup without additional input from user. Just like iPhone will use iCloud as backup without additional input from user.,

So how is it that you don't know where your backup is?

I get multiple apps for storing my photos even Google have made a solution for this.

True for some brands like Samsung. They have their own cloud services, and google services are there as well by default. But you don't have to use Samsung services. Or even google services. Or both. You can easily set everything up on some 3rd party services while ignoring everything else. Or even on your home NAS server.

What I mean to say, there is a lot of choices out there for Android phones. You can leave it on default (google), or choose brand names, or 3rd party apps, or even your home setting. So a lot of choice. What is the problem with choice?

I get multiple web browsers nagging me for this and that.

I'm using iOS since 3GS, and Android since HTC Hero. Never had any browser naggins what so ever. iOS never nagged me, Android never nagged me about browsers also. But on Android, you can easily change default browser. On iOS, that's not possible at all.

So please, what kind of nagging are we talking about here?

If the freaking phone manufacturers would respect Google, I would probably make the shift. However, they don't.

I love OnePlus. Only services available there are google services. And that phone is so fast it can run circles around iPhone/Samsung all day long.

But most of all that I love about that phone is that it's easily rootable. So I root it all the way, remove google services completely, and rely on downloading apps on my own, and doing backup on my own Synology NAS. Works like a charm.

Now, 99,999% of users wouldn't do that even if they knew how to do it. And I know that, and respect that. But I hate google spying on it's users, so I make the extra step in doing just that.

But I get the choice if I want to leave it by default, or do whatever I want. I choose the latter. But if I didn't, I would get all of google services by default, with very fast and responsive phone. Like most of users do anyway.

But I am always told by the Android world that none of these issues exists, you choose the backup method, the apps, the browser and so on. Your phone, your way.

Well, read all of my remarks above.

 

[LeeW]

Google has a good position here if they could get the freaking hardware manufacturers (like Samsung) to get their fingers off the software.

Indeed, especially Samsung. I bought one of their phones a few years back for a family member, I thought it would be good enough for their use case. I had used a Google phone prior to that and it was nice, clean and pretty intuitive.

But when I started the Samsung phone I really was like WTF is all this **** they have installed... Whilst Google has questionable practices around privacy, Android in its stock format is really nice.

 

[Jg75]

...

 

[thadoggfather]

Would anyone 'rejoin' the ship if the rumored 16" were to include a retro / retro-ish keyboard?

 

[09872738]

Depends. If they continue their price hike and/or feud with nVidia: No.
As both mentioned issues are close to certain: very unlikely

 

[Mendota]

Agreed. The unfortunate truth of our times.

And Apple will remain Apple an even more unfortunate truth.

 

[Mendota]

...

That is you. Do you not know that Google sells your personal information for profit, Microsoft does not, and they are only interested in seeing how Windows works and how it is being used. There is no personal information. In addition Google will use and sell your data if it suits them. It is right there in the EULA. There was a YouTuber who had one of his videos given to a third party phone maker to use in their ads. One day he saw his video as part of the ad, and he was not paid for it. This is the reason I will not use Google cloud services for my data. Much of it is my personal art, and I do not want Google taking it. You do not seem to know much about tech and how things work... Imagine saying that you trust Google?! Wow...

 

[Eason85]

You'd be surprised how ignorant most people are of what Google does. I have family working for Google, and they are quite clueless. "James Damore? Wasn't he that racist alt-right guy who hates women?"; "project dragonfly? What's that?"

 

[LeeW]

Last year I was in the office a girl sitting across from me freaked out at her phone. I asked what was up, she said that her phone had just displayed a notification that her train had been delayed. She was like WTF??!! How did it know I was going to be on that particular train.

I just said "Android phone?", yes indeed, watching and learning everything you are doing. Even when you tell it not to.

 

[marclondon]

I need to refresh my computers. My thinking now is:

Desktop - a new Mac is a no brainer, either Mini or iMac to replace my old Mini (can't decide between the two but that's another issue).

Notebook - I badly need to replace an old Macbook Pro. But thinking of something like the Huawei Matebook as Mac o/s is not essential for me on the road. I do not really want to abandon Apple but am put off by the price and quality issues with the current MB Pros.

Phone - I always use Android phones. The Samsung S7 Galaxy is a great phone and has been bombproof.

 

[LeeW]

Huawei Matebook as Mac o/s is not essential for me on the road.

I am in the same position, I saw this on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Huawei-Mat...ook+pro&qid=1557667363&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spell

The spec on that for 1,249... There is also one for 200 less which I am thinking would be just fine.