That may be your definition of "bloat" but it is not mine. "Bloat" and "Bloatware" may slow things down but, by definition, it takes up space.
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Anyone else think Snow Leopard... sucks?
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That may be your definition of "bloat" but it is not mine. "Bloat" and "Bloatware" may slow things down but, by definition, it takes up space.
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Your definition is inconsistent; what do you call it when I recompile a program for speed, instead of size?(All the Borland compilers had this option.) It gets bigger, but it is faster. Is that bloat, or not?
Or to make it a little more relevant to you, what if I recompile a program for 64-bit, which makes it larger. It also runs faster. Did I make the program more 'bloated,' or not?
Ive read most of the pages to this thread, and i dont think anyones said this.
If I'm in a company, and i hear snow leopard features full MS Exchange support and all the 'under-the-hood' improvements for $30 , i would jump on that offer instantly.
If I'm in a company, and i hear snow leopard features full MS Exchange support and all the 'under-the-hood' improvements for $30 , i would jump on that offer instantly.
Actually that 3D dock was a huge improvement because it simply made more sense. The dock icons when launched or needing attention bounce up and down. It's really really strange if you have the 2D like in Tiger. It makes more sense to have a flat surface to rest the icons on and have them bounce on that. Think of it like a desk where you put your pen, ruler, etc. You don't stick them to your wall.
Coverflow is a nice way of browsing your music and movies and even your pics but browsing files in Finder like that? no way.
How can you tell that they didn't rewrite it? Considering the "features" they put into Snow Leopard they must have done some redesigning of several underlaying OS parts. For some parts you really have to rewrite stuff, especially if you want it to function properly in 64 bit or use those new "features". Think of Finder and all the other apps that were 32 bit and now are 64 bit, think of things like implementing GCD and OpenCL. It's not something you simply add, they are things dat have an affect on more OS components and thus several components need some sort of redesign to make sure those new "features" will work properly.
So yes it is completely false to think they did not do any rewriting/redesigning. For the new stuff they put in they actually had no other choice but rewrite/redesign the old stuff. You can't put bigger wheels on a car because they may simply be too big and not fit properly. The same goes for programming. Such big code/design changes can not be put into a service pack, dot release or whatever you want to call it.
Same did Vista when comparing it to Windows 95, same goes for XP and even 2000... When comparing Windows Vista and Windows 7 it becomes apparent that the changes in 7 are very very minimal. Some are visual (well, actually most are visual and that's not many), some are changes under the hood. You're really overhyping Windows 7. Doesn't imply it's a bad release, both Windows 7 and Snow Leopard are great but that's what Vista and Leopard should have been in the first place.
BTW: you might want to check out how Linux, GNOME and several other open source projects do their release management. Theo de Raadt has given a presentation on how the OpenBSD project manages it releases, you can find it on YouTube. Those changes can be quite noticeable by users but it can also go unnoticed because they are under the hood.
Just remember that 10.6 is not a user release but more a developer release since it provides more under the hood stuff that developers benefit from. Of course that also flows right back to users since developers create the great and lovely apps we all use. I for one likes the GCD, OpenCL features and the bigger focus on 64 bit. I hope that VMware will make use of those features in Fusion because I think that would make virtualisation even better on a Mac (a gain in performance, etc.). That and the many other small changes and fixes in 10.6 are the reasons why I'll be buying it.
It is a different way of organising your windows and the information you're currently using. You could use a window for a certain task, project, subject, etc. and have tabs in them with the information regarding that task/project/subject/etc. If you use expose you'll see the different windows that have different pieces of information which is great but not if you have several task/projects/subjects and no tabs. You can't find what window belongs to what task/project/subject by solely using expose. That's where tabs are a bit easier to use. Tabs and separate windows do not compete each other, they simply supplement each other. The trick is using them the right way
At the end of the day, most users will notice just few visible changes. I am guessing they are (in the order of visibility):
But then again, Mac OS X 10.5 was not in a sad place like Vista was, and like I said earlier, many under-the-hood changes will bring more dramatic experiences down the road, in the form of better applications and newer Macs equipped with multiple cores and more powerful GPUs more fully utilized. I look forward to upgrading my aging iMac to quad-core.
- QuickTime X. New flashier UI (which I am not personally crazy about, but I dig controllers and widgets fading out), Pro features thrown in for free.
- New AirPort menu.
- Exchange Support in Address Book, iCal, and Mail (huge for corporate users, not so much for others).
- Tweaks in Expose and Stacks.
- New fonts.
- More usable, relevant Services context menu.
- Faster reboot and shutdown.
- Faster performances throughout, although many won't be very noticeable.
But then again, Mac OS X 10.5 was not in a sad place like Vista was, and like I said earlier, many under-the-hood changes will bring more dramatic experiences down the road, in the form of better applications and newer Macs equipped with multiple cores and more powerful GPUs more fully utilized. I look forward to upgrading my aging iMac to quad-core.
i cant wait to get my hands on SL. Im confident that it will be an improvement, in at least 2 or 3 different ways, for this alone i am willing to pay 30pound.
ALOT of people on here are complaining about a product that hasnt even been confirmed to be ready for release. We think we have a GM release, but then again Apple said 15th of September did they not? We know RUMOURS. Mainly cos this is a rumour site. So lets talk about things that we know, not wildly guess as to performance on machines. Like for instance, when developers are taking advantage of GCD, and OpenCL it WILL make a difference to the end users experience in Mac OSX. 2/3 weeks time everyone is probably going to be saying that SL is amazing i can almost see it now lol.
Although saying that, someones still gonna be annoyed cos their latest version of some random plug-in doesnt work because of incompatibilty errors. The irony.
We are talking about Apple here, some of the best playmasters in the biz atm, so lets just enjoy it while it lasts
PTP
ALOT of people on here are complaining about a product that hasnt even been confirmed to be ready for release. We think we have a GM release, but then again Apple said 15th of September did they not? We know RUMOURS. Mainly cos this is a rumour site. So lets talk about things that we know, not wildly guess as to performance on machines. Like for instance, when developers are taking advantage of GCD, and OpenCL it WILL make a difference to the end users experience in Mac OSX. 2/3 weeks time everyone is probably going to be saying that SL is amazing i can almost see it now lol.
Although saying that, someones still gonna be annoyed cos their latest version of some random plug-in doesnt work because of incompatibilty errors. The irony.
We are talking about Apple here, some of the best playmasters in the biz atm, so lets just enjoy it while it lasts
PTP
I said "bloat" may make things slower. I said that "bloat" means taking up more space but I didn't say that taking up more space means "bloat". There is a real difference there. I guess a more complete definition of "bloat" in this case may be "uselessly bigger" or "uselessly taking up space". People complain that "bloatware" fills up their systems.
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Works for me... So removing PPC is not about removing bloat, because PPC isn't useless. In fact, SL is no faster for having removed PPC, just as Tiger and Leopard were no slower on PPC when Intel was added.
stop complaining its 30 bucks? it has many features that are worth more than the 30 that they are offering. when the final retail version is released than start your complaining but for now all these arguments are invalid
stop complaining its 30 bucks? it has many features that are worth more than the 30 that they are offering. when the final retail version is released than start your complaining but for now all these arguments are invalid
Exactly. The sense of entitlement people have here is nuts. "$30 for Snow Leopard? Bah humbug!!" My god, shut up. Its cheap, its helping move OS X into the future and giving devs more powerful tools to create better applications, and did I mention you have the CHOICE TO NOT BUY IT?! My god.
And what is with the blatant Windows fanboyism on these Mac forums? Windows 7 is Windows Vista with some improvements, UI tweaks, and a $200 price tag for an UPGRADE from Vista. How do you like them apples?
Ya true but what less they charge in the upgrade OS they well and truly make up for it in the prices they charge for the hardware where you could probably get a PC Laptop covered in Gold for a MBP 17" spec. And if Apple were only doing OSes they wouldn't be doing upgrades for $30. They have to make their money somewhere.. So lets not go comparing Windows to Apple and Vice Versa. Different markets altogether. Both I am sure are good OSes. I use Windows 7 as well as the MacOS and they both are good and have their own pros and cons.
It's not about the fact that it's only 30 bucks, it's that Apple could have done so much more with Snow Leopard.
Not talking about major changes, but the little things.
In my eyes, there are four things you get in Snow Leopard:
1) Exchange Support
2) A new look for the contextual menu on the dock (why not throughout OS X??!, but ok)
3) a weird new Quicktime X
3) Faster launching of Mail, iCal, Safari and the rest of the standard apps installed on OS X. Most third-party apps don't launch much faster.
Also, why didn't they rewrite the biggest Resource hog in OS X....iTunes
Not talking about major changes, but the little things.
In my eyes, there are four things you get in Snow Leopard:
1) Exchange Support
2) A new look for the contextual menu on the dock (why not throughout OS X??!, but ok)
3) a weird new Quicktime X
3) Faster launching of Mail, iCal, Safari and the rest of the standard apps installed on OS X. Most third-party apps don't launch much faster.
Also, why didn't they rewrite the biggest Resource hog in OS X....iTunes
Would you please stop with this senseless price debate.
My Macbook Pro was $1800
My Dell E1505 was $1800
The price difference is minimal, if not non existent. And with PC's, you get a plastic machine with inferior battery life and build quality. Aluminum > Plastic, there is no two ways about it.
You forgot "improvements for developers" (actually that's what most of the improvements come down to). iTunes is not really a part of OS X, it's now a separate project and will have it's own release cycle as it already has. Maybe on the 9-9 event there will be an announcement for a new iTunes version like the rumoured iTunes 9.
What more could you do if you have to redesign a lot of the parts that make up OS X? I mean, in what time? Redesigning parts of the OS can consume an enormous amount of time and thus leaving not much time for implementing new features. I think people forget what impact of redesigning stuff has on the code, the OS and the time at hand. You just don't do such things in like 3 months or so.
I guess some of us forgot that to be a fan of Apple and OSX, we must also denounce all things Microsoft and constantly mention how much they suck. Sorry about that.
I guess some of us forgot that to be a fan of Apple and OSX, we must also denounce all things Microsoft and constantly mention how much they suck. Sorry about that.
+1
There are a lot of rumors about itunes 9. The itunes release schedule doesn't track the OS release schedule since it's not really considered part of the OS - it's more of an iLife thing, historically.
I guess some of us forgot that to be a fan of Apple and OSX, we must also denounce all things Microsoft and constantly mention how much they suck. Sorry about that.
Not at all what I said. But there are a TON of "OS X Sucks, Microsoft and Windows 7 RULEZ" people here, which shows they are just trying to start arguments posting that kind of stuff here.
My advice....
Do not get Snow Leopard yet, wait a while (6 month at least) until a new revision comes out because it will come with bugs
Is completly naive, stupid to install or buy the first generation of anything.
If you buy Snow leopard and installed you are just showing how ignorant you are. It will come with problems and those problems will need to get fixed in a next revision.
It just got on my nereve the amount of idiots complaing "my OS is slow, Apple is bad".
Do not install Snow leopard, or buy it or anything until the rest of the idiots beta test it and Apple correct the final problems.
Do not get Snow Leopard yet, wait a while (6 month at least) until a new revision comes out because it will come with bugs
Is completly naive, stupid to install or buy the first generation of anything.
If you buy Snow leopard and installed you are just showing how ignorant you are. It will come with problems and those problems will need to get fixed in a next revision.
It just got on my nereve the amount of idiots complaing "my OS is slow, Apple is bad".
Do not install Snow leopard, or buy it or anything until the rest of the idiots beta test it and Apple correct the final problems.
Jeez.....
First of all, you have a bunch of bleeding edge folks here. Second, the bugs that do exist are not likely to be major issues resulting in data loss. No testing suite is perfect so the best way to find undiscovered bugs that QA did not find is for customers to use the product in production environments.
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The people using Snow Leopard are the idiots? Right....
Nice post buddy. I have Snow Leopard on my Macbook Air now, and it runs GREAT. No hangs, no crashes, nothing bad. So please research before you spew your nonsense around these forums. You have no idea what you are talking about.
The people using Snow Leopard are the idiots? Right....
Nice post buddy. I have Snow Leopard on my Macbook Air now, and it runs GREAT. No hangs, no crashes, nothing bad. So please research before you spew your nonsense around these forums. You have no idea what you are talking about.
So right. Having installed it, I can say there is no real reason to buy it. However, neither is there a real reason not to install it. It runs fine.
People who shout that the sky is falling remind me of this guy:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc