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See the problem is a refund is simply money he never earned.
To quote myself from just before: "You don't grasp that humans could possibly contribute towards something for purely personal, non-transactional reasons."
It's okay to give people money just because you like their work in general. No one is making you do it, but you're taking it very personally.

He is telling a sob story about how terrible it is that he already spent the money he did not earn.
He's giving context to the situation. Not everyone who uses Apollo keeps up with tech news. You're adding your own emotional bias to it to make it a "sob story".

This is the part where I do not see why anyone owes him anything.
No one said anyone owes him anything. This is an argument you've made up on your own. The refund is completely up to the user to claim or deny.

I think the problem I have is that he is leveraging an unfortunate event to convince people like you that it's definitely not his financial mismanagement to blame.
What financial mismanagement? Is that another point you're just going to make up or do you have some sort of evidence for that? Again, to be clear, he's made a lot of money from the app. No one disputes that. But he also operated on information Reddit gave him, which they then changed with almost no notice. A sudden disruption and refund can still be a significant blow to a business. For someone who's been talking about understanding business the way you've been doing in this thread, I'd have expected you to understand that.

You go ahead and keep supporting everybody who tugs at your heart strings though, that is ok, sorry I rained on your parade.
See, this is the bit that makes it very clear that you're grumpy. You're looking down on people for spending (a relatively small amount of) their own money in a way they want. But again, you're not actually arguing in good faith. You just reply with the same bitter points over and over and ignore anything that anyone else says.
 
Show me a mistruth please.
🅾️K

Your first post. IMG_1473.jpeg

You said it’s a “massive lie” that these refunds are out of pocket. Who do we believe? Some rando or the developer himself?

You’ve also called him a “grifter”, which makes no sense, and is definitely a mistruth.

Thank you for your time.
 
First of all who cares what my emotions are. I think you only care because its the only method you have to reduce the credibility of my genuine point. Second everyone keeps purposely forgetting that he is LEANING on his "sad story about big mean Reddit", to generate free money. When you realize that my viewpoint is that he is taking advantage of your good intentions, then you will see what I am saying. But you will continue to ignore that because it would cause too much cognitive dissonance, and I am personally fine with that.

Or just playing devils advocate. Anyone consider maybe I could be paid by the developer to drive up hysteria and to bring more sympathy for him? I'm not but what if I was? I am also personally okay with the possibility that is how you people reacted. It is actually kind of amusing.

Anyways I have work to do tomorrow. I look forward to hearing about how terrible I am later.
 
Reddit is a company trying to make money and go public. To do that, they quite reasonably decided to begin charging for access to their API and the user generated content hosted on their platform.

The developer of Apollo, saw a business opportunity to create an app that offered a better user experience. The app was very successful for several years. When Reddit made this recent decision to start charging for access, the developer was actually quite happy with that. He felt confident that it might lead to better relationship management with Reddit and enhanced access to developer tools and features. He was assured repeatedly that pricing for access would be reasonable and based in reality.

Reddit chose to offer a different pricing structure that makes access unattainable to independent developers. That was also their right however disappointing it may be for users that loved third party apps. And however impactful it might be on independent developers. They don't owe anybody a freebie. That being said Christian didn't ask for a freebie. It was Reddit's choice to provide free access until now and he was willing to adapt if financially viable.

Where I have sympathy however for Christian, is that the CEO of Reddit tried to commit slander against him. Had Christian not had the thought to exercise his legal right to record his calls with the CEO as a Canadian citizen, Reddit would have been able to publicly smear him. Reddit's CEO made claims about Christian that were patently untrue until Christian was able to provide recordings of the calls to show otherwise. The CEO has been proven with cold, hard evidence to have lied and tried to use his power to bury somebody.

Christian has made money from Apollo. Of course he has. He created a passion project that as some have pointed out, came with inherent risk that the API access might one day get pulled. That is true. But when the CEO has behaved so callously by lying and showing a lack of personal integrity, it's hard not to feel a level of sympathy towards Christian.

People are entitled to a refund if they want it. Or to use their money as they wish in support of a very rapid change in Reddit's API policy. The responsibility to pay those refunds absolutely does fall to Christian. But given the behaviour of Reddit's CEO and his public slander, if there ever has been a time to sympathise with an independent developer (who was willing to adapt and pay for access) then this is that time. This isn't the same situation as Tweetbot despite the parallels. They're a larger firm, not a sole trader.
 
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Hahahahaha.

So this CEO along with outraged Redditors go crazy when they cannot leach for free of an other company and literally is making more profit than Reddit (who doesn't make a profit at all).

And now he wants to keep the money from it's users for free.
 
The dev is a fool for not selling the app to a Reddit competitor/clone after Spez burned him.
1) There are no real Reddit competitors or clones. Lemmy and Kbin are probably the closest thing we have and they're still basically empty by comparison. Also, they're not businesses, so who's paying for the code?

2) Even if he sold it, it's not like you can replace the word Reddit in the code and off you go. The dev said in an interview that ripping out the Reddit parts of the app to replace with a different system would be a massive undertaking, at which point you might as well just build another app from scratch.
 
Hahahahaha.

So this CEO along with outraged Redditors go crazy when they cannot leach for free of an other company and literally is making more profit than Reddit (who doesn't make a profit at all).

And now he wants to keep money from it's users for free

Nope.

He publicly offered Reddit a higher fee than anyone thought reasonable and Reddit still refused to respond.

Your statement is completely inaccurate.
 
Nope.

He publicly offered Reddit a higher fee than anyone thought reasonable and Reddit still refused to respond.

Your statement is completely inaccurate.

Reddit their fee is reasonable if you compare it to Twitter, and Reddit doesn't care what "everybody" thinks. Reddit cares about big companies such as ChatGPT/Open AI and Google's Bard who have been training their AI models for free on Reddit data, and they will have to start paying going forward.

And my statement is accurate, the guy leeched and made millions of an other company for free.
 
Hahahahaha.

So this CEO along with outraged Redditors go crazy when they cannot leach for free of an other company and literally is making more profit than Reddit (who doesn't make a profit at all).

And now he wants to keep the money from it's users for free.

Is it supposed to be a badge of honour that Reddit is not making a single cent of profit?
 
Reddit their fee is reasonable if you compare it to Twitter

Then why did they mislead everyone for months and only say so at the 11th hour?

It’s because this is the outcome they wanted.

Thinking it is reasonable is ridiculous. If it was reasonable they would have wanted people to pay it. It is abundantly clear that they don’t want anyone to pay it.

Which is fine, but then shut it down. Pretending they want to be paid but making it clear they don’t want to be paid is what is dumb.
 
Sad it has come to this. I understand that Reddit should be compensated for access to their API but what they are asking for seems deliberately designed to kill 3rd party apps without directly killing them.

It would have been better if Reddit charged a reasonable fee for API access. Or another option would have been to charge users for the privilege to use a third party app and maybe even implemented some kind of profit sharing with the devs.
 
Is it supposed to be a badge of honour that Reddit is not making a single cent of profit?

You guys don't understand that if a company cannot make a profit it has to find other sources of income?

Redditors think they are LinkedIn users and Reddit is able to sustain it's just from the users alone, just like LinkedIn is able to do.
 
If the pro-rated refunds will cost him $250k, imagine how much money he made and will have left afterward.

Barely anything, I suspect. Don’t forget that Apple takes a 15-30% cut, plus there are costs and he has a part time employee as well. It’s not all pure profit for him, and I don’t think it’s realistic that any business keeps a year’s worth of revenue around in case they have to shut down and refund their customers.

I am not saying users aren’t entitled to a refund. They are. What’s unreasonable and head-scratching is acting like this won’t have any material impact on Christian Selig.
 
Then why did they mislead everyone for months and only say so at the 11th hour?

It’s because this is the outcome they wanted.

Thinking it is reasonable is ridiculous. If it was reasonable they would have wanted people to pay it. It is abundantly clear that they don’t want anyone to pay it.

Which is fine, but then shut it down. Pretending they want to be paid but making it clear they don’t want to be paid is what is dumb.

What you mean mislead everybody for months? ChatGPT is something recent and Reddit is now closing their free API as they want to get paid for ChatGPT and other AI models, which is reasonable.

And Apollo is not important to Reddit. Apollo made only a couple of millions, that is nothing to be honest. The big money is what they will get charging ChatGPT and Google's Bard.
 
You guys don't understand that if a company cannot make a profit it has to find other sources of income?
Who doesn’t understand that?

Apollo delivered customers to Reddit. It’s Reddit’s job to figure out how to make money off of their customers.

They completely declined to do this.

If I ran a company and someone brought me customers and I decided to just send those customers away, that would make me a pretty awful business manager.

Well… that’s what Reddit is doing.


What you mean mislead everybody for months?

Their public comments for most of the year made it quite clear they were thinking of pricing in one range and then the pricing announced was in a totally different range at a point where it was far too late for people to implement plans.

If they had said literally nothing all year that would have actually been more helpful than what they did.
 
Who doesn’t understand that?

Apollo delivered customers to Reddit. It’s Reddit’s job to figure out how to make money off of their customers.

They completely declined to do this.

If I ran a company and someone brought me customers and I decided to just send those customers away, that would make me a pretty awful business manager.

Well… that’s what Reddit is doing.

You cannot make money of Redditors, they are not users like on LinkedIn. Even Twitter users are more marketable than Redditors.

TikTok has the same problem as Reddit, their user base is not very marketable in general and you will see TikTok will try to find other sources of income too or TikTok will shutdown it's business (just like Vine did a few years ago).
 
Why would anyone give even a second of pity for this person? I do not care "how good his app was", that is irrelevant. He took on a business risk, the risk did not work in his favor, now he lives with consequences. End of story. Dont drag yourself down with him.
Thats called empathy.

Calling yourself „applefan“ u might have experienced it once in your life
 
You guys don't understand that if a company cannot make a profit it has to find other sources of income?

What’s that saying? The ends do not justify the mean(ness)?

Reddit is well within their rights to find other sources of income (including dropping support for third party apps in a bid to funnel users towards their stock app). This however does not make them immune to the consequences of their own actions, and I will say they have plenty to be accountable for (including smearing Christian’s name and restoring previously deleted comments).

Even as we speak, they seem to be trying to DM moderators using sock puppet accounts to try and hoodwink them into reopening their subreddits. If that’s not pathetic, I don’t know what is.


And while this may all be for naught in the long run, I am happy that this saga has not been without blowback.
 
What’s that saying? The ends do not justify the mean(ness)?

Reddit is well within their rights to find other sources of income (including dropping support for third party apps in a bid to funnel users towards their stock app). This however does not make them immune to the consequences of their own actions, and I will say they have plenty to be accountable for (including smearing Christian’s name and restoring previously deleted comments).

Even as we speak, they seem to be trying to DM moderators using sock puppet accounts to try and hoodwink them into reopening their subreddits. If that’s not pathetic, I don’t know what is.


And while this may all be for naught in the long run, I am happy that this saga has not been without blowback.

To be fair, the mods were terrible holding entire communities hostage for a vocal minority. People in r/nba were pissed off at the mods for shutting down r/nba during the NBA finals. It's fair to remove mods who cannot do their job of keeping subreddits functioning, especially since Reddit has told the mods that non-commercial 3rd party software falls under the free tier so they won't loose any mod tools.

And Reddit is fine loosing members that didn't pay Reddit a dime in the first place. This will be well compensated when ChatGPT/OpenAI and Google's Bard will start paying Reddit.
 
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