Apple adopts Blu-ray Technology

[weldon]

Sony hasn't even alluded to the possibility of Blu-Ray players starting at less than $1000.

Man I'm amazed at how stubborn some of you all are. If you take an unbiased look at Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD from the perspective of watching movies HD-DVD is the CLEAR winner. If you look at the two from a computing perspective Blu-Ray is the CLEAR winner.

You missed the press release today at CeBIT that promises $300 drives when they go into mass production. The Blu-Ray RECORDERS on sale in Japan today are still extremely expensive, but the PLAYERS will be fairly cheap once they go mass market.

As for HD-DVD being better for movies... I don't get it. The video codecs are the same, the copy protection is the same, the audio is the same. What's different is that Blu-Ray is higher capacity and supports higher transfer rates which directly supports higher bit-rate encoding which directly translates to better PQ. Why wouldn't you want Blu-Ray for movies?

 

[duanemoody]

Ummmm, how about the idea that Computer/Game makers use BD and movies will be available in HD-DVD?

What better way to prevent movie piracy? Seems most of the game and computer guys are bd anyway.

Both standards have a provision for a chunk of data which all readers can read but Joe Sixpack's blue laser burner will NOT be able to replicate (reasons unclear). ROM media (games, software distros, movies) will come with this "mark of cain" and supposedly be unreadable without it -- from a simple "rip and burn .iso" standpoint. I'm guessing it's either an encryption block, a key for a scrambled VTOC, or more likely a combination of both.

Presumably it could be a sector consumer burners aren't allowed to burn (I say "allowed" because the likelihood industry would manufacture two different sets of hardware instead of a tweakable firmware setting is pretty small) and approved burning software won't support (a la the bad checksums in Playstation discs that most .iso rippers "correct" while more sophisticated cue/bin rippers do not).

Also, both standards have upped the ante in encryption keys. DVD-CSS was cracked because the entire scheme's security was dependent on all forty manufacturer keys being difficult to guess. When one proved about as hard as guessing "pencil" for your teacher's password, the entire scheme could be decoded/bypassed using it. The proposed key schemes will be more punitive to vendors whose keys are easily compromised, with the potential that after someone discovers and publishes Kyocera's key, future movie releases no longer play on Kyocera players. Of course, the answer to what the studios plan to do with the entire installed base of Kyocera users is uncertain, unless Blu-Ray/HD-DVD set top players are all going to have reprogrammable keys (which hints at the mathematical possibility of a guessable universal key all discs will honor even if it isn't registered to a particular OEM).

Studios are not so cash-strapped that retooling their production lines will cripple them. The profit margin on CDs, DVDs is even today obscene -- when I toured Sanyo's CD plant in 1988 with a Japanese Economics class, they were willing to tell us everything about their process, except when I asked what their per unit manufacturing cost was. Remember, Economics class they invited to their plant.

What nuckinfutz won't tell you is that blu-ray is a more ideal infrastructure for consumer recording (because the structure and the firmware do a better job of relocating data on disc and searching for blank space). While he's singing the songs of lazy studios making nickel and dime decisions, he's ignoring the manufacturers of set-top DVRs paying close attention to which offers consumers more features. Studios don't actually drive manufacturing standards. Yeah, Sony blew it with Betamax licensing issues. Back before most posters here were born. They also invented the 3.5" disk standard that a computer company with 2% market share nuked the 5.25" disk drive. That same "niche computer company" led the adoptions of USB and FireWire.

Not everything in consumer electronics is determined by lowest common denominator or cheapest cost, nuckinfutz.

Also remember that a disc that holds twice as much crap on it is a disc a studio can use to front-load assloads of full-length trailers. You think they don't care about that?

 

[nuckinfutz]

Weldon

That's EXCELLENT news! I support both formats but I think HD-DVD has the best potential for movie distribution.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/GC11Dh04.html

Sony has yet to set a price for the external drive, but the company aims to sell similar drives for around US$300 by the time it begins mass-producing such products in around 2007.

Ouch 2007! That pretty much means the Playstation 3 is likely to be $499 in 2H 2006.

I expect both formats to be the same in price although HD-DVD suppliers will profit more on the media.

 

[weldon]

And the Nintendo Revolution will play HD-DVDs.

And few studios? 230 are supporting HD DVD, vs 100 for BR.

The Nintendo Revolution will have an HD-DVD drive? I saw the press release this week about backwards compatibility with GameCube, the "broadway" CPU and the "hollywood" GPU, but I can't find anything about HD-DVD. Were you making this up?

As for studios, you'll have a hard time finding any studio that has committed to one format or the other EXCLUSIVELY. The studios are going to release movies on the format that has the biggest market. period. When you ignore the studios that are being TOLD which format to back because their parent company has a financial stake in that format, I don't think there's really anything interesting to read into studio support announcements.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Not everything in consumer electronics is determined by lowest common denominator or cheapest cost, nuckinfutz.

Also remember that a disc that holds twice as much crap on it is a disc a studio can use to front-load assloads of full-length trailers. You think they don't care about that?

Nice post Duane.

I happen to think Blu-Ray is a phenomenal format that is perhaps just a wee bit of overkil. Sony has really glitzed the format up but I cannot help but think that in my experience, consumers value cost first and then simplicity. Blu-Ray is just not going to be as cost effective as HD-DVD but man it will put on a show if the author wants to.

I'm not afraid to see either format suceed because I'll have both. But unfortunately there is no way to avoid a format war and I don't think Blu-Ray's strengths exceed the setup that Sony is causing on the adoption of HD media.

DVD-9 is tight for authors but HD-DVD with the new modern codecs has a lot more breathing room. Think about it. HD-DVD has 3x the storage space yet the high efficiency codecs only require another %30 of storage. Perhaps that puts it in perspective.

 

[weldon]

Weldon
That's EXCELLENT news! I support both formats but I think HD-DVD has the best potential for movie distribution.
Ouch 2007! That pretty much means the Playstation 3 is likely to be $499 in 2H 2006.
I expect both formats to be the same in price although HD-DVD suppliers will profit more on the media.

Best potential for movie distribution? What does that mean? You think there is some inherent advantage to HD-DVD? Or are you just talking about production costs?

I would fully expect PS3 to be more than $299. I've seen predictions from industry watchers for $499. I think that's a likely target.

So you're buying into the argument that HD-DVD discs are going to be cheaper to make? I think it's too early to tell. Sure, the equipment companies SAY you can retrofit/convert a DVD production line to HD-DVD, but at least one of the major replicators has said that they are going to build a whole new facility anyways. Sony runs one of the biggest replicators on the planet. I would fully expect them to drive Blu-Ray costs down over time. I think that we should ignore blue-sky predictions of cost that are based on total market dominance and huge economies of scale until they actually build a mass market for the product.

 

[duanemoody]

Nice post Duane.

I happen to think Blu-Ray is a phenomenal format that is perhaps just a wee bit of overkil. Sony has really glitzed the format up but I cannot help but think that in my experience, consumers value cost first and then simplicity. Blu-Ray is just not going to be as cost effective as HD-DVD

This isn't a democracy. We don't determine standards, the manufacturers do (by their cunning and by their stupidity).

but man it will put on a show if the author wants to.

If both formats fully support MPEG-4's Flash-like interactive functionality (vector graphics, hot regions, talking head avatars) it won't matter which kind of media it's burned on to.

I'm not afraid to see either format suceed because I'll have both. But unfortunately there is no way to avoid a format war and I don't think Blu-Ray's strengths exceed the setup that Sony is causing on the adoption of HD media.

I'll repeat myself, paraphrasing Peter Gethers, someone who's worked in both Random House and Hollywood. Studios' profit margins on consumer entertainment media are obscene for a reason. In the parable of the ant and the grasshopper, they use the ant's long-term economic perspective. Individual and short-term losses are inevitable; it's long term profitability that counts. If they charged us the two or three bucks it costs them (tops) to manufacture DVDs, they couldn't afford to absorb flicks like "Gigli" or the thousands of copies of Kelly Clarkson CDs that end up in cut-out bins.

DVD-9 is tight for authors but HD-DVD with the new modern codecs has a lot more breathing room. Think about it. HD-DVD has 3x the storage space yet the high efficiency codecs only require another %30 of storage. Perhaps that puts it in perspective.

Both formats use the same codecs and have for months. You know this.

 

[Swift]

This is not Beta/VHS: the information has already exploded.

I don't get it, surely it's best to have all bases covered. But then, Apple did do the dirty against DVD+R, so *shrug*.

I don't know about you, but it depends on which Superdrive you have. Increasingly, DVD writers are both +/-, so modern Macs support both. I bought a new DVR-108 Dual Layer +/- recorder for my G5, and it works like a champ on both media.

At the time Apple chose DVD-R, manufacturers were pushing that one or the other become the standard. They had to choose one. By a narrow margin, the -R drives were more compatible with the standalone DVD players of the day. So they picked one. It's not a beta vs. VHS deal. Both DVD blanks can be recorded by the new recorders. Hurray! And I bought a new player for under $80 that plays everything.

In the future, another format war is coming, unless one side or the other realizes they're in business for customers, not peons. I think Apple has to choose what will be best for its computer users/digital hub owners, and that's plainly Blu-Ray.

In the end, maybe DVD recorders of the future will be able to play or record many kinds of disc. HD-DVD, because of its studio backers, may even predominate in the marketing-dominated world of DVD releases. Remember, this is a market segment that wants encryption, region blocking, and dumb players in North America that don't understand PAL/NTSC: everything to maximize the grosses on the first week in the theaters and the first week on DVD.

Normal people, meanwhile, want flexibility, storage and open functionality.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Best potential for movie distribution? What does that mean? You think there is some inherent advantage to HD-DVD? Or are you just talking about production costs?

Weldon I don't "think" there's an advantage it's a fact.

From the HD-DVD Promotion Group

Advantages of common disc structure

The shared disc structure of HD DVD and DVD offers numerous advantages to consumers and manufacturers alike. Full backward compatibility allows consumers to enjoy their current DVD library and crystal-clear HD video on the same HD DVD player. DVD disc replicators can utilize their current production equipment with only minor modifications and quickly establish a worldwide manufacturing infrastructure to sustain HDDVD software business development. Moreover, the simple structure of a single-lens optical head that can accommodate both red and blue laser diodes will realize compact systems.

My emphasis added.

Real World example:

89 Titles announced
Toshiba execs talking price. $1000 for a player.
Half Height HD-DVD drive announced.

Next

Most excellent and unbiased article on the two formats

The advantage in this case goes to HD-DVD because of the similarity to the current DVD manufacturing processes. This makes it less expensive to adapt the current production lines for producing HD-DVD’s. Memory Tech has created a new production line, which can be adapted to produce HD-DVDs in 5 minutes, and this manufacturing line can make 1 HD-DVD in 2.8 seconds. Since the production of a HD-DVD media requires a higher technical precision and therefore a better quality control, we can also await a better quality of conventional DVD medias.

The production of Blu-ray disc will involve more cost, because the companies will have to add equipment for the cover layer portion and it’s not that easy to adapt current lines for BD production. Further, it will take about 4-5 seconds to manufacture one media. This is just slightly slower than for a HD-DVD, but multiply this difference by the millions of discs that will be produced and you can see that this becomes an important issue in the cost per unit.

Of course, one could argue that with future innovations it might be possible to reduce the production time for a single disc Blu-ray disc to match HD-DVD efficiencies. But there is still the burden for re-tooling and it seems that it is not possible to produce DVDs on BD adapted production lines. So the companies must have 2 different production lines when they want to produce DVD and BD discs.


Emphasis added so it sinks in.

Next Blu-Ray has Java support built in that requires more local flash and DRAM memory and licensing fees on top of that.

Thus my point.

within the context of movie distribution HD-DVD is the most sane and elegant solution we have. There's a legit reason why the Blu-Ray camp isn't talking pricing because they aren't at the level of HD-DVD right now without losing their shirts.

 

[Swift]

Please understand manufacturing.

dude srsly,

blu-ray comes in an ugly cartridge.

sure it holds 20 gb more, but who flippin cares.

VHS is way crappier than betamax, but VHS was cheaper to make.

BANG!

VHS wins.

There was nothing, absolutely nothing, inherent in VHS that made it cheaper. It was Sony's insistence on controlling its patents, and not making them easily available to other manufacturers, that did in Beta. Once you had 20 or so companies involved in VHS, it added economies of scale. Once they gauged the market correctly, and MADE LONGER RECORDING TIMES AVAILABLE, VHS got the market.

By the way, hands up all those now screwed with extensive videotape collections of '80s crappy movies.

There's nothing inherent in Blu-Ray that makes it more expensive, after the initial capitalization is accounted for.

 

[weldon]

Weldon I don't "think" there's an advantage it's a fact.
{deleted}
within the context of movie distribution HD-DVD is the most sane and elegant solution we have. There's a legit reason why the Blu-Ray camp isn't talking pricing because they aren't at the level of HD-DVD right now without losing their shirts.

You read a press release on the HD-DVD promotion group's web site that says HD-DVD is better than Blu-Ray, so it's a fact? That's a pretty lame argument. Let's go step-by-step...

• Single Head - Sony is working on this for Blu-Ray too. No Advantage.
• Titles announced - no one is exclusive. Sony controls a larger library. Even the article you referenced indicated 40% vs 35% committed to each format. No Advantage.
• Sony is talking $300. Half-height is coming for Blu-Ray. BenQ is showing PC prototypes. No Advantage.
• Manufacturing time - let's wait for real mass production before we declare a winner. I'll concede advantage to HD-DVD.
• Different manufacturing lines - one of the two largest replicators has already said they expect to run different lines for DVD and HD-DVD anyways. No advantage.
• licensing costs - Advantage HD-DVD.

What you didn't talk about is the fact that all the CE companies and computer companies are on board with Blu-Ray. Who's going to make all these HD-DVD players? Toshiba all by their lonesome? How is that going to drive prices down for players faster than Blu-Ray with several large CE manufacturers? You didn't talk about how all the computer companies are going to use Blu-Ray. PS3 is going to use Blu-Ray. Who's using HD-DVD?

Your last statement is ridiculous. HD-DVD isn't anywhere with pricing yet either. Sure, they issue press releases saying that they are cheaper - but what else do they have to talk about? Blu-Ray is technically superior and has more industry support.

 

[TrenchcoatJedi]

I would fully expect PS3 to be more than $299. I've seen predictions from industry watchers for $499. I think that's a likely target.

Then the Xbox 360 or whatever they're calling it has won the next console war already. Seriously. I've read that the HD-less Xbox 360 is going to debut around $250. When you go into Circuit City and they have Xbox 360 and PS3 next to each other with a $250 price difference, MS has already one. If the Xbox has HD-DVD support and there is content, Sony is in trouble.

 

[weldon]

Then the Xbox 360 or whatever they're calling it has won the next console war already. Seriously. I've read that the HD-less Xbox 360 is going to debut around $250. When you go into Circuit City and they have Xbox 360 and PS3 next to each other with a $250 price difference, MS has already one. If the Xbox has HD-DVD support and there is content, Sony is in trouble.

Xbox 2 isn't likely to have HD-DVD support. And certainly not at $250. They have been saying that they think it's too expensive for a game console and DVD-9 still offers a good amount of storage. The same analyst that predicted Sony might reach $499 figured that Xbox 2 might go for $350 to $400. We should know a lot more in the next 6 months.

 

[Zigster]

this will be one of the most interesting battles of the coming year. I am rooting for Blu-ray, because of superior technology, but that doesn't mean it will win.

I suspect next generation players will have to play both mediums for a while. But when I buy an mini- HD cam coming from Panasonic, I want my Blu-Ray recorder to be ready at $400.!!

 

[nuckinfutz]

Bring it!

Your last statement is ridiculous. HD-DVD isn't anywhere with pricing yet either. Sure, they issue press releases saying that they are cheaper - but what else do they have to talk about? Blu-Ray is technically superior and has more industry support.

You didn't talk about how all the computer companies are going to use Blu-Ray. PS3 is going to use Blu-Ray. Who's using HD-DVD?

Sony is talking $300. Half-height is coming for Blu-Ray. BenQ is showing PC prototypes. No Advantage.

You read a press release on the HD-DVD promotion group's web site that says HD-DVD is better than Blu-Ray, so it's a fact? That's a pretty lame argument. Let's go step-by-step...

So they are going to lie about the directory structure matching DVD and the optical assembly supporting blue and red lasers?

Single Head - Sony is working on this for Blu-Ray too. No Advantage.

We know Blu-Ray is going to have backwards compatibility for red laser. But their solution will be tacked on. The beauty of HD-DVD is that the numerical aperture of DVD and HD-DVD is very similar thus they can make a nice small and efficient single-lens assembly that supports both. Blu-Rays NA is designed to work with a protection layer .1mm and not .6. Whatever they have done is increasing the cost.

Titles announced - no one is exclusive. Sony controls a larger library. Even the article you referenced indicated 40% vs 35% committed to each format. No Advantage.

I'm not claiming that having the studio is an absolute advantage. My take home message is that HD-DVD is easier and cheaper to produce and this is manifested by the early announcement of titles to be available this year. I fully expect to see some studios that are in the Blu-Ray camp making HD-DVDs in time and vice versa. The 89 titles are a testament to the fact that HD-DVD can be pressed with little modifications to the production line that cranks out DVDs. In that scope which is far more narrow than yours it is indeed an HD-DVD advantage. You're arguing for a format that hasn't announced 1 title. I find that rather funny.

Sony is talking $300. Half-height is coming for Blu-Ray. BenQ is showing PC prototypes. No Advantage.

Yes they're talking $300 in 2007!

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/GC11Dh04.html
Sony has yet to set a price for the external drive, but the company aims to sell similar drives for around US$300 by the time it begins mass-producing such products in around 2007.

Somehow you guys got that confused with an actual launch product. Again funny.

Different manufacturing lines - one of the two largest replicators has already said they expect to run different lines for DVD and HD-DVD anyways. No advantage.

Do you mean Blu-Ray. I can easily see dedicated HD-DVD lines because that line has the capability to be quickly retrofitted for DVD production as well. What I don't see is a bunch of excitement regarding adding Blu-Ray lines that need to support the TDK coating so that discs don't go up in smoke from a small scratch.

What you didn't talk about is the fact that all the CE companies and computer companies are on board with Blu-Ray. Who's going to make all these HD-DVD players? Toshiba all by their lonesome?

Being in the Blu-Ray camp does not preclude any manufacturer from shipping drives. There will be plenty of hardware that comes from beyond Toshiba NEC.

You didn't talk about how all the computer companies are going to use Blu-Ray. PS3 is going to use Blu-Ray. Who's using HD-DVD?

I haven't because what Dell, Apple and HP do is inconsequential to what Hollywood needs. I've always stated that Blu-Ray is a superior format for computing needs but that HD-DVD is the best solution for distributing movies. One product cannot satisfy both markets in the best manner IMO.

Your last statement is ridiculous. HD-DVD isn't anywhere with pricing yet either. Sure, they issue press releases saying that they are cheaper - but what else do they have to talk about? Blu-Ray is technically superior and has more industry support.

That's the same tired Blu-Ray chant that we keep hearing. You guys love to ignore the information regarding production costs in time and process. When Toshiba comes out and says "We'll have players for $1000 and we have 89 titles coming in 2005" you guys conveniently ignore that and champion a format that has done neither. Rather daft I might say.

I'm confident that I'm right and you all are wrong. Actions are louder than words and Sony's reticence to talk pricing tells me all I need to know.

Nice product...too expensive.

 

[ASP272]

I think both formats should be developed because they both have their strengths. We just need the player industry to create dual laser players to support both discs. Personally, I like the fact that BR holds so much more, with the potential to hold the Lord of the Rings size movies in HD on one disc! Now that would be cool. I think Apple is backing BR because of their partnership with Sony in HD, and for the larger capacity. Plus, Blue Ray is a cool name, and Apple likes cool.

 

[duanemoody]

I don't get it, surely it's best to have all bases covered. But then, Apple did do the dirty against DVD+R, so *shrug*.

That was a software thing in iDVD, not a limitation of the OS or the SuperDrive (Disk Utility merrily duped iDVD-burned -Rs to +Rs with zero compatibility issues). Apple fixed it in iLife '05. Sorry it took everyone an extra forty minutes to burn a -R.

Let's agree to either quit quoting this or acknowledge it was a problem for a whole thirteen months (give or take).

 

[weldon]

We know Blu-Ray is going to have backwards compatibility for red laser. But their solution will be tacked on. The beauty of HD-DVD is that the numerical aperture of DVD and HD-DVD is very similar thus they can make a nice small and efficient single-lens assembly that supports both. Blu-Rays NA is designed to work with a protection layer .1mm and not .6. Whatever they have done is increasing the cost.

We don't know that the optical pickup is going to cost more. What we do know is that both camps are working on a single head system to keep costs down. I want to talk about real advantages of each format. I think your argument boils down to "Blu-ray is superior, but HD-DVD says that they will be cheaper." My argument is "Blu-ray is superior and we don't know about pricing yet."

I'm not claiming that having the studio is an absolute advantage. My take home message is that HD-DVD is easier and cheaper to produce and this is manifested by the early announcement of titles to be available this year. I fully expect to see some studios that are in the Blu-Ray camp making HD-DVDs in time and vice versa. The 89 titles are a testament to the fact that HD-DVD can be pressed with little modifications to the production line that cranks out DVDs. In that scope which is far more narrow than yours it is indeed an HD-DVD advantage. You're arguing for a format that hasn't announced 1 title. I find that rather funny.

The announcement of 89 titles indicates that Time-Warner financially benefits from HD-DVD and wants to hype the format. Nothing more. We all assume that the Sony library and MGM library is going to be released on Blu-Ray. I don't think the 89 titles announcement is significant at all. If Sony announced a list of 2000 titles to come out 2006 would anybody care? It would be a non-event because we know that those studios are financially tied to companies that control the competing formats.

Yes they're talking $300 in 2007!

And Toshiba is talking $1000 by end of 2005. So what? All I'm saying is that we can't give an advantage to either side yet. Of course, there are Blu-Ray recorders out now (that won't be able to play BD-ROM) and there are no HD-DVD drives at all.

Somehow you guys got that confused with an actual launch product. Again funny.

I'm just responding to your argument that Toshiba's and Time-Warner's announcements are significant. If you want to talk HD-DVD announcements, I'll share some from the other side. Mostly, I advocate that we wait for real product.

Do you mean Blu-Ray. I can easily see dedicated HD-DVD lines because that line has the capability to be quickly retrofitted for DVD production as well. What I don't see is a bunch of excitement regarding adding Blu-Ray lines that need to support the TDK coating so that discs don't go up in smoke from a small scratch.

No, I mean HD-DVD. One of the largest DVD replicators has said that they are going to build a brand new line dedicated to HD-DVD. They won't be switching back and forth. I think the equipment manufacturers tried to tout that as an advantage but in practical terms, no one is going to use it. The coating thing is interesting. It might be great, or it might be a total disaster for Blu-ray.

Being in the Blu-Ray camp does not preclude any manufacturer from shipping drives. There will be plenty of hardware that comes from beyond Toshiba NEC.

Support? It does create problems because a lot of CE companies are lined up against Toshiba, NEC, and Sanyo.

I haven't because what Dell, Apple and HP do is inconsequential to what Hollywood needs. I've always stated that Blu-Ray is a superior format for computing needs but that HD-DVD is the best solution for distributing movies. One product cannot satisfy both markets in the best manner IMO.

I just plain disagree here. I think Hollywood needs a market to sell content to. Computer maker adoption of Blu-Ray is going to increase the number of devices capable of movie playback and increase the market for Hollywood. That is of consequence. I also think that DVD did a fine job of meeting needs of Hollywood and PC makers at the same time. Are you arguing that two formats is better than one? I think the competition between them is good for now, but the industry will consolidate around one format because that will be more efficient in the long run.

That's the same tired Blu-Ray chant that we keep hearing. You guys love to ignore the information regarding production costs in time and process.

I'm not trying to ignore it. I am saying that we don't have any real info on costs yet. I've already challenged your assertion that replicators are going to save money by switching back and forth between DVD and HD-DVD on the same line.

When Toshiba comes out and says "We'll have players for $1000 and we have 89 titles coming in 2005" you guys conveniently ignore that and champion a format that has done neither. Rather daft I might say.

OK, which is it? Are future announcements meaningful or not? I'm not trying to ignore the announcement of the player or the titles. Interesting sure, but I just don't think it's that meaningful. The Sony and BenQ announcements this week are interesting too. I'm not going to give an advantage to either format because of some announcements almost a year away from real product.

I'm confident that I'm right and you all are wrong. Actions are louder than words and Sony's reticence to talk pricing tells me all I need to know.

We're still a ways away. I would suggest we wait and see on costs and pricing. I'm sure that the format competition is going to be good for consumer pricing. I also know that Blu-ray offers superior features for movies.

 

[wdlove]

My prayer is that Apple will make a decision on this prior to my next purchase of a Mac. Would like to have the technology that will last.

 

[Lacero]

The fallout from this war won't be seen until at least 2007, when it becomes clear which is the dominant format. Each side will fight to the last drop of blood, since there are billions of dollars at stake. Doesn't look good for the consumers.

 

[GFLPraxis]

The Nintendo Revolution will have an HD-DVD drive? I saw the press release this week about backwards compatibility with GameCube, the "broadway" CPU and the "hollywood" GPU, but I can't find anything about HD-DVD. Were you making this up?

As for studios, you'll have a hard time finding any studio that has committed to one format or the other EXCLUSIVELY. The studios are going to release movies on the format that has the biggest market. period. When you ignore the studios that are being TOLD which format to back because their parent company has a financial stake in that format, I don't think there's really anything interesting to read into studio support announcements.

It's rumored according to the leaks.
Ugh, I misposted. I meant to say, "The Revolution is supposed to have HD-DVD, not WILL". My apologies.

Since HD-DVD is easy to make backwards compatible with DVDs (and GameCube disks are mini dvds)...and since their competitor Sony owns Blu-ray...and they're probably going to have a $300 to $400 price point...HD-DVD makes much more sense than anything else.

 

[Sped]

My guess is that the format the the PORN producers pic will win.

That is the funniest thing I've heard all day. Good one...

 

[Sped]

I've already seen some porn videos shot with those new Sony HDV cameras and all I can say is, mother o' mighty.

Well that's the second funniest thing today.

 

[jaronimo]

IN FACT...

its useless to declare winners. Anythings gonna be cheap when it's in mass production. So this is not a fact to argue about. I would say, first come, first serve. Who get his drives first in the PCs around the world will be the winner. So here's a point. Apple will introduce Dual 3.5GHz-Macs with Blu-Ray Drives this year (remember? year of the HD) to get the content out of the mac. And after that we can talk again and see, wheter HP, Dell and all the others will chose BR or HD-DVD. But remember, Apple is the trendsetter and Sony is still very powerful.

Whatever, hold your breath.

 

[wdlove]

The fallout from this war won't be seen until at least 2007, when it becomes clear which is the dominant format. Each side will fight to the last drop of blood, since there are billions of dollars at stake. Doesn't look good for the consumers.

Two years is a long time. Wonder how long it took them to decide on one format for the VCR.