Apple adopts Blu-ray Technology

[Lacero]

You're both wrong. The first HD camcorder came from the labs of Japan's NHK broadcast division which used the MUSE system.

 

[rt_brained]

The Blu-Ray CD can theoretically hold 50GB of data vs. the 30 GB on the HD-DVD. The companies behind the Blu-Ray is also significant, they include: Dell Inc.; Hewlett Packard Company; Hitachi, Ltd.; LG Electronics Inc.; Mitsubishi Electric Corp.; Panasonic (Matsushita Electric); Pioneer Corp.; Royal Philips Electronics; Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.; Sharp Corp.; Sony Corp.; TDK Corp.; Thomson; Twentieth Century Fox; and Walt Disney Pictures and Television.

Hold on, hold on, hold on…Apple and Sony have signed on to support the same tech standard??

Could someone do me a favor and check the current temperature in Hell?

 

[TMay]

content creators will decide this one

After reading all of the comments (yada, yada) I am struck by how Nutinfutz's arguments finally convinced me. With but a few exceptions, all of the content producers, and I am including the hardware and software folks here, have sided with Blu-ray.

Toshiba I will grant is a solid hardware company, but, the four major studios backing HD-DVD don't actually create any content, but merely fund and distribute the creations of others. So, fully confident of the success of HD-DVD, these same studios have announced a grand total of 89 titles, all priced considerably higher than DVD titles, and not, albeit due to media cost.

You would think that with the ease of duplication, and the pent up demand from consumers, that the studios would want to flood the market with content and players. But, studios are very conservative, as is HD-DVD, and frankly, I don't know many buyers that are dying to be on the bleeding edge of this latest standards battle. Most, and I include myself, are quite happy with the DVD format and content at this point in time.

HD-DVD may be out of the gate a bit earlier and pick up some early adopters, but, ultimately, it will be content creators (indies, professional and consumer) that will decide this one, and capacity and bandwidth favor Blu-ray.

 

[bertagert]

Nuthin,

Looks like you're trying to win this battle on your own. After reviewing many pages on this topic, I have to point out a few more things.

1. Blu-ray doens't just go to 54GB..it has the ability to go up to 100-200GB. This won't happen at first but will in the future.

2.

What are feature films suddenly going to move to 4 hr play times?

The feature film part might not go bigger but the add-ons that you haven't thought about might. We didn't have all the added stuff on DVD's when VHS was out, but we do now. Think about what you could add on with even more space available to you. Games, etc.

3. About the scratching of the discs.

...blue laser discs such as the Blu-ray Disc, etc., with their larger capacity (and shorter recording wavelength), scratches, grime, dust, etc. on the recording surface (i.e., the surface irradiated by the laser beam) can create even more serious problems than on the DVD. With DURABIS, these problems have been addressed even to a greater degree than anticipated. And as the Blu-ray disc is a "bare" disc (not encased in a cartridge), technology such as DURABIS, etc., that reinforces the disc recording surface will be essential to resist scratches and finger print smudges. TDK

Now, with that said, the fight isn't between us forum members on which one will win. That will come down to the movie studios. I just don't want you waste more time typing when this is completely out of your control. Sit back, relax, and wait a year till you have a better idea of who will truely come out on top.

 

[Platform]

Yes let's have Blue Ray

I just hope that it would come on the next rev of PM's and iMac's

 

[giffut]

Toshiba slimline HD-DVD

At CeBit in Hannover/Germany Toshiba shows off a prototype of a slimline notebook formfactor HD-DVD drive.

And regarding porn I read a couple of week ago that already someone of the big porno business figures is producing the first porn HD movie and it is meant to be put on BlueRay discs.

 

[JFreak]

At CeBit in Hannover/Germany Toshiba shows off a prototype of a slimline notebook formfactor HD-DVD drive.

not interested until they get a working slim-line slot-load drive in production
(and ready to installed to a new powerbook. or better yet, retro-fitted to an old one...)

 

[groov']

Holodisk hits the market in 2010

Originally Posted by Lacero
Ok what of holographic DVDs that can hold 1 TB of data? Any news?

Still a few years off.

Forget Blue Ray and HDVD if you're seriously into datastorage. Within 2 years we'll be only talking about holodisk with it's Terabyte, Pentabyte and Exabyte storage-possibility on 1 small disk.

From the interesting pages at Colossal Storage:

"Breakthru ! 3D Atomic Holographic Optical Data Storage Nanotechnology

Rewritable 3D Volume Holographic Removable Disk / Tape / Drum / Card Data Storage is a new frontier.

5 exabytes of new data is generated every year world wide and growing !

The history of Storage Past, Present, and Future by C David Wright University of Exeter .

Colossal Storage Corporation has dominant patents the first patents issued in any field that details a totally new concept for a Ultra-Violet/Deep Blue Laser integrated semiconductor R/W Head. The read/write head used for non-contact rewritable digital data to a ferroelectric optical holographic drive.

Colossal Storage wants its Rewritable 3D Volume Atomic Holographic Removable Optical Storage NanoTechnology to be an " ALL IN ONE " Storage Solution replacing Ram Drives, Ovonic Drives, Flash Drives, 2D Optical Drives(phase change/MO DVD), Video Disk Drives, iVTR Drives, Blu-Ray, EVD, Tape Drives, AFM/ATF and Hard Drives for " ALL IN ONE " complete hardware storage solution.

Colossal's Licensed Nanotechnology will allow the company to be a yearly Multi Billion Dollar disruptive, exotic, and cutting edge company.

Al Shugart , founder of Seagate, the world's largest Disk Drive company says,"I don't understand all of Michael's technology but I know this is the way to go for the storage industry."

Data Shelf Life of Today's data storage is 1 to 5 years for DVD, CD, Blu-Ray. Magnetic tape products like disk drives, tape, and film have a shelf life from 3 to 7 years. Colossal Storage Atomic Holographic Optical Storage will have Almost a Limitless data storage shelf life of 100 years or more.

Rewritable Atomic Holographic Storage Using Reprogrammable " Atomic Switch's " will dramatically improve applications like 6,840 raw uncompressed high quality Video/TV hours, or 2,100,000 chest x-rays, or nearly 10,000,000 high-resolution images, or 30,000 four-drawer filing cabinets of documents, or , or 20,000 DVD'S Worm's , or 4,000 BLU-Ray Worm disk's, or 100 - 100 gigabyte disk drives on ONE 10 Terabyte 3.5 in. removable disc."

What are the Major Improvements to Storage Technology ;

- will have highest NLO analog / digital / optical capacity available
- will have lowest cost per gigabyte
- will have lowest power requirement per gigabyte
- will have longest archive shelf life of any data storage media, 100 years
- will have widest environmental conditions and tolerances
- will be only technology that scales from nano to macro solutions
- will have most reliable removable read / write media available
- will have highest bandwidth data transfer potential
- will be direct replacement for hard disk drives
- will not be effected by extreme high energy Cosmic Rays
i.e. Solar Flares and Solar Winds for Moon / Mars Exploration
- will be nuclear/cosmic radiation hardened capable

One 10 Terabyte to 10 Petabyte and beyond 3.5 in FEdisk would be EQUAL 1,000 to 100,000 Times the Storage Capacity of Blu-Ray, Disk Drives, or Tape Drive.

Thats 1,000 times any State of the Art hard disk technology with 100 Gigabytes on one disk. Hard drive technology will never exceed 500 Gigabytes on a disk.

Atomic Holographic optical image data storage bandwidth is 400,000 times faster than binary bit text processing bandwidths used in todays storage technology.

Storage gets serious in 2005

Hard drives aren't keeping up with today's data needs. Today's large 300 and 400 gigabyte (GB) hard drives are easily filled to capacity by digital photos, increasingly large audio files, and video. Some computer users attempt to cope with the problem by stuffing multiple hard drives into their PCs. But there is a limit to the number of hard drives a PC can operate and many are finding the 4.7 gigabyte DVD is just not large enough.

Present day storage technology CAN NOT keep pace with the data storage demands of the world's appetite !
300 Million Hard Drives and 235 Million Optical drives were produced in 2004.

Most all Phase Change media uses ferroelectric Ge2Sb2Te5 material. The DVD/CD/MO/Blu-Ray Phase Change companies didn't know the media they were using was ferroelectric but only knew if they heated it up and cooled it down something happened to the surface of the material.

Colossal Storage will be the only drive in the world that will be able to read any phase change disk with the capability of overwriting or infinitely rewriting data to any phase change disk by changing the internal molecular structure of the polarized atom dipole geometry without heat and cooling.

3 of America's Top Universities and Scientist are working on completion " Proof of Concept " of ferroelectric materials used in the patented UV Atomic holographic Optical Storage Disk Drive.

Solid State Drives will Cost over $ 25.00 a Gigabyte verus the Hard Drive $ 1.00 to $ 9.00 a Gigabyte versus Atomic Holographic Drive $ 0.08 a Gigabyte."


Read more at http://colossalstorage.net/home_diskdrive.htm

 

[tny]

Because you are making a huge blunder in thinking that the key to platform victory is hardware resellers. Nay, the key to victory is having the most content. When Joe Public walks into Best Buy he doesn't give a **** what Dell or HP or Apple likes or puts in their computer. He wants to know if he can get his favorite movies in HD. Thus it is the content that drives a product followed closely by price. As of TODAY HD-DVD has more content announced than Blu-Ray and looks to be the price leader. You've given me a bunch of fluff.

Actually, the key is the cost of entry for consumers. The reason VHS won was because the VHS players were cheaper than the Sony Betamax players. The reason there are so many PCs and so few Macs is because historically PCs have been cheaper. The content producers actually wait for the bandwagon to leave and then jump on it, and thus have only a secondary effect on which format "wins" - they reinforce what has already been decided, and kill the trailing format off (or not - see the Mac). Whichever looks like they are going to have a sub-$200 player first (especially if it is backward-compatible) will get all the content producers onboard, and they will win. I don't think we'll really know the answer to this until 2008.

The reason Apple jumped on the main board so quickly isn't because of their hardware sales - it's because of their position in the entertainment industry (the importance of iTunes/iPod, and Steve Jobs' position at Pixar). The Blue-Ray bunch are probably looking to entice more content providers.

 

[Torajima]

Neither company will win. This is another war that is not winnable.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Folks, it really doesn't matter which format is superior. The one that saturates the market first will win this war... and this will almost certaintly be Blu-Ray. Sony's Playstation 3 will play Blu-Ray discs out of the box, and will be released next year.

Those few studios supporting HDVD will most likely switch to Blu-Ray after a few million people have bought the PS3.

 

[Torajima]

Well these formats aren't really designed for standard televisions anyway. "Regular" TV's would hardly see any differnence in quality when watching a HD title thats been downconverted to SD. These formats are to push HD. HD is at a crawl untill we have a use for it. For HD to catch on we need HD recording and viewing capability. For many people, the only thing you can see in HD right now is Jay Leno.

We already have HD recording... it's called the digital video recorder. One made by TIVO & DirectTV, another by Time Warner cable, and one coming soon from Voom. You can also record to your Mac or PC if you have the right hardware (a firewire cable and a firewire enabled cable box).

As for Jay Leno... last time I checked, it's not even in real High Definition. For real Hi-Def that actually looks good, watch LOST or Desperate Housewives (or watch anything on Discovery HD Theater).

 

[groov']

Blu-ray/DVD/CD recorder at CEBIT

At CeBit in Hannover/Germany Toshiba shows off a prototype of a slimline notebook formfactor HD-DVD drive.

And regarding porn I read a couple of week ago that already someone of the big porno business figures is producing the first porn HD movie and it is meant to be put on BlueRay discs.

BenQ demonstrates Blu-ray Disc triple writer BW1000 at CeBIT

BenQ unveils a series of its latest storage products, including BD Triple Writer BW1000, BD Recorder BR1000 Concept, 16X DVD Writer DW1625 with LightScribe, and Slimline 8X DVD Writer TW200D at CeBIT (Hall 21, Stand B20), March 10-16, 2005 in Hannover.

The BenQ BW1000 is a product developed by Philips & BenQ Digital Storage (PBDS), which utilizes the most advanced Philips triple-laser optical pick-up unit in which the separate blue, infra-red and red lasers share the same optical pathway to provide Blu-ray Disc read/write capabilities, as well as read/write compatibilities with DVD and CD. This innovative optical pick-up unit has a flexible architecture for future speed improvements and versatile products design. Blue laser technology applies the emitted blue-violet light with wavelength 405nm, which can read and track pitch on an optical disc. The BenQ BW1000 also provides 50 Gbytes or more of capacity recording on an optical disc to fulfill the increasing demand for large capacity digital audio, video contents storage and data archives.

More info: http://www.cdr-info.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=12848

 

[AllieNeko]

Hold on, hold on, hold on…Apple and Sony have signed on to support the same tech standard??

Could someone do me a favor and check the current temperature in Hell?

Apple and Sony get along quite well regarding video applications actually. And expect more collaboration between Apple and Sony soon - Steve and whatever the Sony guy's name is hinted at it in the last big keynote

 

[mdelaney123]

Toshiba hasn't guaranteed it but they are hinting at $1k drives at launch far more than Sony is. In fact Sony will not allude to anything pricewise and that's rather disconcerting to me. They simply do not know what they can price Blu-Ray now and feel comfortable letting the public know.

I am willing to bet that I can pick up a Blu-Ray player for $299 next Spring. Better yet it will include a KICK BUTT game system... The PS3!

 

[groov']

Sony demonstrates player for Blu-ray Disc at Cebit

Sony demonstrates player for Blu-ray Disc at Cebit (without cardridge)

Please translate yourselves


Die Professional Disc for Data wird in Jukeboxen zukünftig auch ohne Cartridge eingesetzt. Das spart 30 Prozent der Kosten.

Sony (Halle 2, Stand C02) zeigt auf der CeBIT einen Prototypen eines PC-Laufwerks, das Blu-ray Discs (BD), DVDs und CDs abspielen und aufnehmen kann. Die Controlerchips und den optischen Pickup-Head hat Sony eigens dafür entwickelt. Der Pickup-Head nutzt zwei Linsen, eine für die blaue Laser-Diode für die Blu-ray Disc und eine zweite für den roten und infraroten Laser der beiden Dioden für CD und DVD.

Unklar ist bisher noch, wie die Laufwerkshersteller mit dem BD-Kopierschutz umgehen. HD-Filme auf BD-ROM sind verschlüsselt und werden beispielsweise von komenden Stand-alone-Playern nur über digitale Videoschnittstellen herausgegeben, die (vor allem mit HDCP) kopiergeschützt sind. Auch im PC soll man nirgends auf die unverschlüsselten Daten zugreifen können. Ob die Daten im Laufwerk, auf einer separaten Karte mit HDMI-Anschluss oder gar auf der Grafikkarte entschlüsselt werden, ist derzeit noch nicht klar. An einer Lösung wird derzeit noch gearbeitet, sagte Sonys Produktentwickler Masashi Yoshida.


Für das BD-Laufwerk hat Sony einen Pickup-Head mit zwei Linsen und drei Dioden entwickelt.

Bei dem ausgestellten Modell handelt es sich allerdings nur um einen Dummy. Als Vorführmodell dient eine umdekorierte externe Laufwerksversion für die Professional Disc for Data mit USB-2.0-Anschluss. Nach der derzeitigen Planung soll das BD-Laufwerk bereits Ende 2005 auf den Markt kommen. Einen Preis wollte das Unternehmen noch nicht nennen.

Das endgültige Gerät soll die BD-Scheiben nicht in einer Cartridge, sondern nackt schlucken. Dazu hat Sony eigens eine kratzresistente Beschichtung entwickelt. Diese soll auch bei der neuen Professional Disc for Data (PDD) zum Einsatz kommen -- allerdings nur für Laufwerke in Jukeboxen. Ohne die Cartridge werden die Profi-Medien nicht nur um 30 Prozent günstiger (30 bis 35 Euro statt 40 bis 45 Euro), sondern lassen sich auch leicht in DVD-Libraries einbinden.

Bei den Konsumer-Geräten sind zwei Prototypen von BD-ROM-Playern zu sehen, die erstmalig auch VC-1 und H.264/AVC dekodieren können. Die Player verzichten ebenfalls auf Cartridge-Medien und sollen bei der Markteinführung sowohl einlagige BDs mit 23 bis 27 GByte wie auch zweilagige BDs mit 50 GByte Speicherplatz abspielen können.

 

[Dave00]

Neither of these will catch on in the movie market, simply because regular DVD quality is more than good enough for a standard television. There's no reason for people to buy their collections all over again - DVD already gave them commentaries, cut scenes, alternate angles, etc.

Disagreed - the difference between standard DVD and HDTV is very noticeable (to me, at least). In the U.S., at least, all broadcasts are heading towards HD, and eventually they'll enforce the migration of all new TV's to HDTV. (There's already a timeframe for this, but it's behind schedule.) Once there's more content, and new TV's are all HD, people are going to wonder why their DVD's look so comparatively crappy.

You do have a point as to *when* this will happen. I would suspect that would be when price drops and government enforcement of the new standard coincide... probably in the next year or two.

Dave

 

[Mac-Xpert]

HD-DVD-R

One point I haven't seen anyone mention here yet is that the specifications for HD-DVD-R show that there will only be a single layer disk available. So the capacity of a HD-DVD-R is only 15 GB. The Blu-ray-R disk will be available in both single and dual layer and later possibly 4 or even 8 layers, giving you at least 25 or 50 Gb of storage available. Although the rewritable HD-Disks will allow up to 34 GB of storage space, these will likely be more expensive than Blu-ray-R or HD-DVD-R disks.

So looking at this from a storage medium perspective the Blu-ray disk is a clear winner.

 

[sinisterdesign]

I've already seen some porn videos shot with those new Sony HDV cameras and all I can say is, mother o' mighty... Whichever format wins in the end, it's coming.

no pun intended??

i'm still out on the format wars. i've been reading about both techs for a while and they have their pros & cons. yes, capacity is a HUGE factor (the whole driving force behind this format), but cost is, too. if blu-ray wins out, it's not the movie houses that are going to eat all the costs of building new production facilities, it will be the consumer.

i can't wait, though. i love my widescreen HD Wega and 5.1 Infinity surround setup and they're begging for some high-def goodness.


(porn)

 

[sinisterdesign]

Sony demonstrates player for Blu-ray Disc at Cebit (without cardridge)

Please translate yourselves

from Sherlock:

"The Professional Disc for DATA is inserted into Jukeboxen in the
future also without cartridge. That saves 30 per cent of the costs.

Sony (2, status C02 resounds) shows to the CeBIT prototypes of a PC
drive, Blu ray the Discs (BD), DVDs and CDs to play and take up can.
The Controlerchips and the optical Pickup Head developed Sony
especially for it. The Pickup Head uses two lenses, one for the blue
laser diode for Blu ray the Disc and second for the red and infrared
laser of the two diodes for CD and DVD.

Unclear is so far still, how the drive manufacturers deal with the BD
copy protection. Hp films on BD-ROM are encoded and for example by
komenden status alone Playern only over digital video interfaces are
given change, which (before everything with HDCP) are copy-protected.
Also in the PC one is not to be able to access anywhere the
unencrypted data. Whether the data in the drive, on a separate card
with HDMI link are decoded or on the diagram card, is at present not
yet clear. On a solution at present still, said Sonys product
developer Masashi Yoshida is operated.

For the BD drive Sony developed a Pickup Head with two lenses and
three diodes.

With the issued model it concerns however only a dummy. As display
model a umdekorierte external drive version for the Professional Disc
serves for DATA with USB-2.0-Anschluss. To present planning the BD
drive is to already come at the end of of 2005 on the market. The
enterprise did not want to call a price yet.

The final device is to swallow the BD disks not in a cartridge, but
naked. (are we talking about porn again?) In addition Sony developed especially a scratch-resistant coating. This is to come also with the new Professional Disc for DATA (PDD) to the application -- however only for drives into Jukeboxen. Without the cartridge will the professional media only around 30 per cent more favorably (30 to 35 euro instead of 40 to 45 euro), but can also easily in DVD LIBRARIES be merged.

With the consumer he devices two prototypes from BD Rome Playern are
to be seen to, which can decode for the first time also VC-1 and
H.264/AVC. The Player does likewise without cartridge media and is to
be able to play during the introduction on the market both einlagige
BDs with 23 to 27 GByte as well as two-part (dual layer) BDs with 50 GByte storage
space."

 

[tex210]

wow you people can argue!

Can someone speak to hd dvd's or BD's archival quality/longetivity.
I hate the fact that Many cd's I've burned are useless now.
A raid array sounds great right about now. What I really want is solid state memory of huge proportions for cheap.

 

[rdowns]

Apple and Sony get along quite well regarding video applications actually. And expect more collaboration between Apple and Sony soon - Steve and whatever the Sony guy's name is hinted at it in the last big keynote

Whatever the Sony guy's name is (Kunitake Ando) no longer works for Sony. Also Sony has a new CEO. Wonder how this effects anything they may have been doing with Apple.

 

[GFLPraxis]

Hold on, hold on, hold on…Apple and Sony have signed on to support the same tech standard??

Could someone do me a favor and check the current temperature in Hell?

Heck, Sony CREATED Blu-ray, not just supports it

 

[GFLPraxis]

You couldn't be more wrong.

Folks, it really doesn't matter which format is superior. The one that saturates the market first will win this war... and this will almost certaintly be Blu-Ray. Sony's Playstation 3 will play Blu-Ray discs out of the box, and will be released next year.

Those few studios supporting HDVD will most likely switch to Blu-Ray after a few million people have bought the PS3.

And the Nintendo Revolution will play HD-DVDs.

And few studios? 230 are supporting HD DVD, vs 100 for BR.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Actually, the key is the cost of entry for consumers. The reason VHS won was because the VHS players were cheaper than the Sony Betamax players. The reason there are so many PCs and so few Macs is because historically PCs have been cheaper.

Good post tny. We both agree..earlier posts in my thread allude to exactly what you're saying here. Price is important for all parties. Lower production costs lead to better pricing to consumers eventually because there is still margin in the product.

Folks, it really doesn't matter which format is superior. The one that saturates the market first will win this war... and this will almost certaintly be Blu-Ray. Sony's Playstation 3 will play Blu-Ray discs out of the box, and will be released next year.

The 89 HD-DVD titles will ship in 2005. Note that Sony's PS3 isn't due until 2H 2006. You haven't read the thread have you? HD-DVD "is" going to be cheaper thus market penetration should be theirs to lose.

I am willing to bet that I can pick up a Blu-Ray player for $299 next Spring. Better yet it will include a KICK BUTT game system... The PS3!

Please don't lose your money. Sony hasn't even alluded to the possibility of Blu-Ray players starting at less than $1000.

So looking at this from a storage medium perspective the Blu-ray disk is a clear winner.

Mac-Xpert. Yes HD-DVD-R is only single layer. HD-DVD RW will support dual layers 32GB. Check www.hddvdprg.com for more info.

Man I'm amazed at how stubborn some of you all are. If you take an unbiased look at Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD from the perspective of watching movies HD-DVD is the CLEAR winner. If you look at the two from a computing perspective Blu-Ray is the CLEAR winner.

When debating or prognosticating it is always germaine to provide the context from which your point of view starts. HD-DVD "is" the correct solution for feature films. Blu-Ray is the correct solution for computing needs. It's blatantly obvious.

 

[7on]

Ummmm, how about the idea that Computer/Game makers use BD and movies will be available in HD-DVD?

What better way to prevent movie piracy? Seems most of the game and computer guys are bd anyway.