Apple Again Changes EU App Store Rules and Fees to Comply With DMA

[beltzak]

What if you bought that fridge and knew and accepted that was the limitation -- if you buy this fridge you can only buy food to fill it from Target? You might complain, but you knew the limitations before you bought the fridge.

I’m not saying Apple should only allow installing apps from the App Store, I’m simply clarifying that people understand the terms and limitations going in.

It would be illegal from a consumer standpoint. I mean just because you would have signed that you want to be a slave and work for free 7x24x365 does not mean it’s legal, right?

Same with EULA that forces you to accept or leave conditions that in some countries like in Europe are not legal.

I mean , there’s a lot of people suggesting here that it your keyboard is faulty then you don’t have rights to warranties outside the one year stipulated by Apple, or the Nvidia graphics fiasco, the Antenagate or the performance downgrade Apple did in iPhone 6 (I think) so the phone wouldn’t shutdown unexpectedly. All this failures should be accepted as they are because you accepted their terms of use. “You are holding it wrong” , no free case, no suit, just shut up and buy an Android if you want.

Like forbidding every developer to send ads through the Wallet push notifications app and then Apple sends Ads of a movie though push notifications in Wallet app. That kind of behavior is literally illegal in Europe and is not just because there is some sort of EU BS Entity, it’s just because here there’s quite a lot of people who has a different idea of what a customer’s rights are and that means that a company is not allowed to do whatever it pleases. Just like nobody should let a company sell poisoned food even is there is some people defending it.

What Apple, Microsoft, Google and a lot of corporations have done is way more than what they should have left them done. And all of you defending Apple’s rights weren’t rights almost 20 years ago, like not let you take your car to whatever shop o repair center you want, no let you choose what wheels you have to buy or not let you buy food for your fridge in whatever market you want. Just for the false premise of security and safety.

 

[jz0309]

Or, let her and others who prefer it have a closed ecosystem and those who care can use Android with 72% share and everyone gets what works for them.

But no, strengstens verboten. Big Brother EU knows better. What Apple and its customers want is wrong because nerds want to have their cake and eat it too, and Brussels is ideologically opposed to it.

this exactly. Now everyone and their grandchildren and grandparent have to become educated ... just like everyone is educated how power generation/distribution works (that's one of the things we need to exist, just like the EU says smartphones are).
Thing is, the whole EU DMA is not made for the consumers, it's made as you rightly say for a handful of nerds ...

 

[Sophisticatednut]

How do you make a “third party app stores may scam you” warning neutral? You can’t.

You have to say something like “Apple takes no responsibility for the content of apps on the third-party store.” Hardly a warning or discouragement at all.

You can it’s even listed what you’re required to do inorder to determine that.

exactly my point. I bought my iPhone enjoying the walled garden. I bought apps knowing that these apps are in the walled garden. I expect to continue paying for these apps via App Store. but because of the law, this changes. there was data from when I began investing into iOS and App Store that what I've been doing can suddenly change. apple required developers to stay in store as long as you sell native apps

meanwhile you've always had the data that you can't install or pay for digital goods/services outside the app.

This was the case since 2008. Developers have come and gone over the years. With the sole exception it being hard to regain lost apps after they either have been removed or stoped updating.

For a long while VLC was only available through jailbreaking when they removed it from the store because of a licensing issue with the AppStore rules. Before they returned after that changed.

I even have work related apps that depreciated their iOS app and just maintained their Android version.

 

[tyrnnsrs]

It feels like Apple could have just avoided all of this if they had just lowered the fees they charge?

 

[Moka Akashiya]

The DMA is pathetic and harms the consumer. Consumers don't want to go outside the app and this creates an unnecessary extra step. This is just beyond greed by Tim Sweeney of Epic Games and the like. It's objectively true.

I want to install and share iOS apps outside of App Store to not pay $100/year for freeware. This is just beyond greed by Tim Cook of Apple and the like. It's subjectively true.

 

[Meatwad]

If nobody wants „to go outside the app“ and take extra steps - as you claim - why is Apple making such a big fuss about?

Just allow third-party promotions/links in-app, without that „scare screen“ and „core technology“ charge BS.

👉 They‘d instantly be compliant - and not lose out on sales, since their system is (according to you) so much more consumer-friendly.

They would take a revenue hit. And the app store infrastructure isn't free. So how do you want to pay for this?

1. Make it the sellers problem? (App store fees.)
2. Make it your problem? (Pay to access app store, or pay higher device prices.)

 

[Sophisticatednut]

What if you bought that fridge and knew and accepted that was the limitation -- if you buy this fridge you can only buy food to fill it from Target? You might complain, but you knew the limitations before you bought the fridge.

I’m not saying Apple should only allow installing apps from the App Store, I’m simply clarifying that people understand the terms and limitations going in.

It would be null and void. They can make the tos and it will be impossible to enforce as its default unenforceable 🤷‍♂️

 

[iOS Geek]

The EU should have enforced this globally. We deserve better,

So you're in favor of one government dictating things for the whole world? To put it as nicely as I can, that is certainly an...interesting opinion. I know some of the pro-EU people here would probably love this, but the EU is NOT a government for the whole world (thankfully). Their authority ends at their borders. Did you think before you said this? The EU has ZERO authority over how a company that is not based in their territory operates anywhere outside of said territory. If you think the EU should have the ability to enforce things globally...then I would expect that the global population gets a say in the EU's elections and processes!

And by the way..."We"? Speak for yourself. I, for one, do NOT want the EU's twisted, clueless "vision" of how things "should" work. I like to see advancements in tech. Not stagnation...which is what we'd undoubtedly get if the EU was the world's decision maker.

 

[Rogifan]

Apple is intentionally making this so complicated but it always comes back to bite them. Who is driving this inside Apple? Tim Cook? Phil Schiller? Apple makes tens of billions in profit every quarter. Yet they’re still obsessed with squeezing every $ possible from the App Store treating developers like they do hardware suppliers. It’s gross.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

I'm sort of at a loss for how Apple continues to show that they are either incapable or unwilling to act in good faith. These new policies are nothing short of byzantine.

 

[AppliedMicro]

And the app store infrastructure isn't free. So how do you want to pay for this?

1. Make it the sellers problem? (App store fees.)
2. Make it your problem? (Pay to access app store, or pay higher device prices.)

Lower profit margins for Apple.

Competitive markets tend to have lower profit margins.
Which benefits consumers.

 

[beltzak]

What Mackbook you have?

Do you really think that with having only Apple’s rights to do whatever it pleases that you can avoid a pop up message in a website saying that your iPhone is in danger please call 911?

MacBooks and browsers have protections against pop up windows for a while now.

Also with freedom I would be able to install a firewall in my iPhone so that Apple doesn’t ****ed up with VPN leaking data and stuff. Or I even I could block Ads from their App Store that I did not ask and signed in my 1350€ device.

 

[wbeasley]

Except when developers block you from using your Apple account and require you to make an account on their platform that most likely is less secure and less privacy focused.

I stopped using Spotify when they started complaining about Apple. And am now - for years - a big fan of Apple Music. Also Apple pays artist a lot more for their streams than Spotify does.

I will not use Spotify or the Epic Games Store ever (again).

Same.

Any app that decides to use the AppStore to only steer you to their purchase option deserves contempt.
There won't be cheaper apps. That's nonsense. The devs want more of the payment.

The little app devs have been happily making money that would have been impossible in the old physical store only days. All the tools, the marketing, the buyer safety, the regular updates, the seamless payment and refunds, the reviews... the whole ecosystem worked for them.

Anyone who think Spotify is going to charge less for a sub through the app is kidding themselves.
Apple currently host the Spotify app and get nothing.
If you cant work out how to subscribe outside the app store perhaps technology is too complex for you.
This isnt going to result in a huge increase in Spotify subscribers.
Most people have woken up to the fact they havent kept up with other streaming services on quality of audio, Airplay and keep raising prices (while paying music rights holders the smallest amount).

Spotify will now start complaining about the new fees to run the app...

Wait until it costs them more to have Apple host an app that costs them for each download... that they currently get for free

 

[Abazigal]

The EU should have enforced this globally. We deserve better,

I guess it comes down to whether you view the ability to sideload apps as some inalienable set of rights, rather than another set of tradeoffs (as is often the case with so many things in life).

I maintain that there are pros and cons to a closed ecosystem (and no, simply saying that you can choose not to sideload or install third party app stores does not suffice), and I feel that iOS in its current incarnation should be allowed to co-exist alongside Android. This way, consumers get meaningful choice with regards to whether they can sideload apps (together with the benefits and the risks that come along with it) or an OS which bars it altogether (meaning they have to get all their apps via one centralised App Store, but it also means they are less likely to have their life savings siphoned off via malware downloaded through shady Facebook apps, for instance).

Having open computing platforms is not some natural law of the universe that all living beings are obligated to adhere to (otherwise, platforms like Sony and Switch should not exist, yet they do). That said, it seems like Apple has cut the commission rate for apps, but there is still no option for free alternative means of distribution (developers are on the hook for a minimum of 10% however they choose to sell their apps). Apple retains full control over what apps are ultimately allowed on iOS at the end of the day.

Let see what the EU says. Given what we have heard so far over the past few days, I see it finally being accepted by the EU. Not quite the "open leg" policy many of you here are no doubt were expecting, but it's better than nothing, I suppose.

 

[beltzak]

I'm sort of at a loss for how Apple continues to show that they are either incapable or unwilling to act in good faith. These new policies are nothing short of byzantine.

They behavior is like the mafia in my opinion. Authorities say this is not good for consumers, is illegal don’t do this. They circumvent the law in order to get away until the next time. A big fan of Apple since 2005 I despise Apple more and more every year.

One of the things I noticed is that they don’t push their software anymore, don’t even try. They’ve just let the apps grow in App Store / Mac Store and collect the fee. For example Apple Mail, Calendar, Contacts , even Finder. There are so many subscriptions apps way better than Apple that I think they have just sent developers and engineers home and bring more and more marketing people.
So I can’t wait the governments for once get rid of this walled garden ******** so Apple focus on what once was very good. Software.

 

[djphat2000]

Thats very flawed logic, since there is no other way to load applications on the iPhone that the customer owns, not Apple.

If Apple is forcing the App store, other payment options need to exist, remember they do not even allow a message "hey sign up on our site, then log in", etc. EU is forcing this, but its still like that for everywhere else.

Apple does not deserve a total payment and recurring payments for services they do not provide. Nominal hosting fees for the app, sure. But not monthly recurring fees.

Everything is a subscription. And it is either this, OR Apple charges developers rich and poor alike a much higher fee to have access to the tools to even make an app. Say, $1000 a month per developer up to 10 developers. Up to 100, it's $950 per. Or something like that.

OR how about 5% of world wide profits. 🤣 That would be hysterical. And I'm here for it!

 

[djphat2000]

They behavior is like the mafia in my opinion. Authorities say this is not good for consumers, is illegal don’t do this. They circumvent the law in order to get away until the next time. A big fan of Apple since 2005 I despise Apple more and more every year.

One of the things I noticed is that they don’t push their software anymore, don’t even try. They’ve just let the apps grow in App Store / Mac Store and collect the fee. For example Apple Mail, Calendar, Contacts , even Finder. There are so many subscriptions apps way better than Apple that I think they have just sent developers and engineers home and bring more and more marketing people.
So I can’t wait the governments for once get rid of this walled garden ******** so Apple focus on what once was very good. Software.

Just don't buy it. I have plenty of friends that have similar view points, and you know what they do? They buy Android.

 

[AppliedMicro]

Anyone who think Spotify is going to charge less for a sub through the app is kidding themselves.
Apple currently host the Spotify app and get nothing.

Apple get the yearly developer fee and iPhone hardware purchases from Spotify customers.
If they don't want to host the Spotify app, let Spotify do it themselves.

Most importantly, Spotify provide an ongoing service - of which Apple provide far less than 30% of value.
That's why they do not deserve 30% of Spotify's revenue.

 

[beltzak]

If they keep this up, the EU is going to force them to allow outright sideloading. Malicious compliance is going to destroy the App Store business.

You are absolutely wrong. In fact, if that would be the outcome of side loading the App Store would blow off success.

For me what is destroying the App Store and Mac Store is Apple’s greed. I have been a user since 2005 and the last 3-4 years I haven’t buy anything from them. I check Alternative.to and look for open source solutions even though they are ugly or less featured I choose no to pay because I am quite angry with them for letting their main apps go to waste in favor of those subscriptions that appear in App/Mac store. Apple Mail is the best example, we canary mail, superhuman, airmail, spark mail, and a lot of more. Calendar and Finder the same thing.

And when I read Macrumors seems that we aren’t that much in the same wagon. But I still have hope, for now.

 

[turbineseaplane]

These new policies are nothing short of byzantine.

All by design ... professional feet dragging from the Bean Counter.

 

[beltzak]

Just don't buy it. I have plenty of friends that have similar view points, and you know what they do? They buy Android.

I don’t care what your friends do, I have had Apple since 2005 and I can criticize them as much as you defend them.

I also have friends that they don’t tell you what to do, like me, that I don’t care what you do and I am pleased that you are happy with the things you can do with your devices but that doesn’t change the fact that I am not allowed to do things that I should have rights to do.

So, please, let me exercise them with freedom without pointing the highway.

 

[Ctrlos]

And the chaos continues. Who writes this nonsense?

Meanwhile on Android, side loading just exists with a warning switch, per-app permissions and no bureaucracy.

 

[xander49x]

so glad I do not live in the EU, the App Store is so convoluted. they made a mess of everything.

 

[beltzak]

Basically, you need to buy an IPhone right to develop an app for it? I mean if you want to test it, debug throughly and so on.

The you need to buy a Mac right? I mean where else you are going to develop iOS code right? It’s not like you have Xcode in iPhone or iPad, right? Maybe I am wrong.

The you have to pay the anual fee to be a developer member.

This I do find acceptable.

Now I want a Terminal app in my iPhone and iPad, no I don’t want to connect to another computer ;p

Also I want a Firewall in mi iPhone and iPad, open source, nftables and that’s just to begin with.

So now there needs to be paid Core Technology Fee, Foundation Commission Fee, Greed Executive Fee, CopyThief Fee, Absurdly Patent Fee .. oh and don’t forget Shareholders Commission Fee.

That’s about right. Total Amount:
Innovative my ass.

 

[beltzak]

And the chaos continues. Who writes this nonsense?

Meanwhile on Android, side loading just exists with a warning switch, per-app permissions and no bureaucracy.

Must be Apple lawyers because we all know that Apple Intelligence isn’t coming anytime soon. 😂