Apple Again Closing Some Stores in Florida, Arizona, North Carolina and South Carolina Due to Coronavirus Spikes

[cannono]

I actually think that new cases is a largely irrelevant metric at this point. New deaths is the most useful because, as somebody wrote above (and as has been shown in many different studies from all around the world), it seems that many more people have little or no symptoms than end up being affected very badly.

So as you increase testing, you will increase the number of diagnoses of asymptomatic people which shows "infection rates" increasing...but they aren't necessarily increasing at all, you are just picking up more diagnoses. If infection rates keep rising but death rates don't then asymptomatic diagnoses are probably the reason. I would definitely be keeping an eye on the death rates but infections...not so much!

No, infections are an important metric. The more infected people there are, the more opportunities for the virus to reach the vulnerable and cause more infections and deaths. Infections are just as important in asymptomatic and healthy people because those people carry it to others and keep this ridiculous infected trend rising.

 

[citysnaps]

I wonder if it's really enforced?

it is!

 

[fourthtunz]

And what exactly? Lockdown the country until a vaccine? The virus is here to stay folks. We have to learn to live with it. Staying in your home isn’t going to kill the virus. The fact that no one gets this is beyond me. I just came back from vacation in Arizona for a week. It was beautiful living life not crippled by fear.

Spoken like someone that doesn't take care of people. Staying home is the only way to make sure it's not spread to you.
35% have it and don't know. I play in bands and want to play out. But I also take care of people that over 60 and 80 I won't risk it. How do you know you aren't giving it or don't have it? Do you have any friends in healtcare?
They are overwhelmed. staying at home just helps them keep up..thats it! Wear a mask!

 

[JimmyBanks6]

Oh so I am anti-science am I? And you know this how? Simply because I said that the scientists MAY not be right in everything they say? Consider the situation in the UK...

Generally, when people post anti-science fallacies as you have constantly been doing, it means they are anti-science. People use evidence to come to conclusions, this is the logical conclusion from your posts.

Dr Ferguson made predictions based on his scientific model for multiple epidemics/pandemics in the past and on every occasion his predictions (based on "science") were an order of magnitude wrong! I am not saying that science doesn't exist. I am not saying that science it always wrong. I am saying that science CAN be wrong.

One doctor is your argument. My god.

Read.: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Science_was_wrong_before

Anyway, to summarise, I did not insinuate anything, I merely posited it as a possibility. That is what enquiring minds do.

And I answered your "possibility", of which the answer is no, and ironically, you posted even more proof that this possibility is not realistic.

As for your "microlevel" herd immunity (made up on the spot claim), please stop spreading misinformation, it is beneficial to nobody and actually detrimental to those less informed.

 

[B4U]

If this still doesn't get the message across.

 

[mikejd1]

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Anyone bother to check the % increase on testing against this? Looking at new cases alone is useless without knowing the span of the testing.

 

[TVOR]

The average of the studies you cited is greater than 70%, which is a pretty good ratio of reducing transmission. No one ever cited 100% or that masks were perfect. Given how this virus has proven to be both contagious and lethal, and we could wear a mask to reduce the spread by 70% to save our friends, families or fellow citizens, you would still prefer to not wear a mask?

Death rates in the UK are at about 13%, but that is based only on diagnoses cases (which seem to be out by a factor of somewhere between 4 and 10) and then there is the fact that the deaths here are far from accurate. Anybody dying who HAS COVID is having the cause of death listed as BEING COVID...which clearly it isn't in 100% of cases. So there are a lot of unknowns about it's mortality rate. But yes, it can be lethal, so can smoking, or drinking, or driving, or flying, or a thousand other things.

We cannot stop people from dying, no matter how tragic deaths are, people will die, we will all die, sooner or later. We do what we can to help those that we can. If you can 100% guarantee that wearing a mask will mean a 70% reduction in cases, then that's one thing...but you can't...because the "science" isn't definitive. It will make a difference, of course, but I doubt it is anything close to 70%.

But yes, in essence, I don't wear a mask. Or gloves. I clean my hands and don't go licking people's faces. But beyond that it is an illness, quite how nasty it is is still TBD, and the world needs to continue. People will die, it will be tragic, but life goes on.

 

[cannono]

Many years ago..."scientists" insisted the world was flat! Scientists are not infallible, but they are being treated as much by many because the world seems to have lost the ability for independent, critical thought. If you listen to much of the "science", it often contradicts itself, and that is without even considering the fact that the "science" has never been agreed upon by all and there have been several complete U-turns since this started.

Don't agree everything you are told just because the person is an "expert"...experts can be wrong...and "experts" can be not experts.

What a bizarre comment. Imagine comparing hypotheses without observational tools from hundreds of years ago to a modern evidence-based data set agreed upon by the vast majority of scientists... Epidemiology in 2020 that nearly every major worldwide scientific institute has backed is very different than such a stupid example of primitive theory before electricity.

 

[TVOR]

Don't worry, anybody here who understands the scientific method is embarrassed for you.

Classic fallacy made my charlatans.

"Scientific evidence came to the wrong conclusion in the past so all of science is wrong"

Educate yourself and stop using fallacies (The first example they use in this article was what you posted almost exactly 😂):

Science was wrong before

The phrase "science was wrong before" (or variations thereof, such as "science has been wrong in the past", "science is only human", "science keeps changing", or "science is not infallible") is a fallacious technique used in order to reject or disparage a current scientific consensus, especially...

rationalwiki.org

Ironically in my experience it is only the people who lack critical thinking skills that constantly make these statements.

You accuse me of logical fallacies and then say that I said or implied "Scientific evidence came to the wrong conclusion in the past so all of science is wrong". I said nothing of the sort and I challenge you to directly quote me saying that. I think what you will find is that I said that scientist HAVE been wrong in the past which means that they CAN be wrong now...far from being the same thing as you are quoting.

However, I would be interested to know your credentials in terms of your understanding of the scientific method.

 

[cmaier]

There is no consensus.

That is either a lie, or a complete misunderstanding of the word “consensus.”

 

[dannyyankou]

Anyone bother to check the % increase on testing against this? Looking at new cases alone is useless without knowing the span of the testing.

Here you go. Testing in Florida has been relatively flat the past 5 days, and positive % nearly doubled in that span.

 

[TVOR]

Lockdown until everyone who has it is identified and isolated. Stop with the straw man arguments.

How do you account for asymptomatic people?

 

[cmaier]

Here you go. Testing in Florida has been relatively flat the past 5 days, and positive % nearly doubled in that span.

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Yeah, you have facts and all, but what about the *alternative* facts? Have you considered *those?*

 

[fourthtunz]

Was that what got them over the top of the curve though? Or was it just that it ripped through the city fast enough so that enough people got it to create a degree of "herd immunity" and the slowing down is a natural results of the virus following a normal viral trajectory, just at a very fast rate?

Heh you are deliberately trying to get people going right?
have you not watched the news? NY locked down for 3 months...go back and look at the video of the streets on youtube,

 

[MacOG728893]

Spoken like someone that doesn't take care of people. Staying home is the only way to make sure it's not spread to you.
35% have it and don't know. I play in bands and want to play out. But I also take care of people that over 60 and 80 I won't risk it. How do you know you aren't giving it or don't have it? Do you have any friends in healtcare?
They are overwhelmed. staying at home just helps them keep up..thats it! Wear a mask!

Yes I have a couple friends who work at hospitals here in SoCal. Its been dead, has been dead. You probably are the type of person who believes the vaccine should be forced upon people by law as well. You realize even next year once the vaccine is made, most people just like the flu vaccine won’t ever get it. So you’re holy grail and reason for staying locked down will be for nothing. Best of luck!

 

[konqerror]

What a bizarre comment. Imagine comparing hypotheses without observational tools from hundreds of years ago to a modern evidence-based data set agreed upon by the vast majority of scientists... Epidemiology in 2020 that nearly every major worldwide scientific institute has backed is very different than such a stupid example of primitive theory before electricity.

If you look at scientists hundreds of years ago, you'd say they didn't know very much about their world. And back then, they thought their predecessors were ignorant.

There is no reason to believe that in a hundred years, people will look back at today's scientists and think that we were very ignorant.

 

[cmaier]

How do you account for asymptomatic people?

1) if you are locked down, infected but asymptomatic, at worst you infect people in your house. Since they are also locked down, it goes no further.

2) you can test everyone, if you were, say, a competent government motivated by, say, science.

 

[TVOR]

That is either a lie, or a complete misunderstanding of the word “consensus.”

April 7th: https://www.businessinsider.com/who-no-need-for-healthy-people-to-wear-face-masks-2020-4?r=US&IR=T

June 6th: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52945210

Consensus Definition: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/consensus

How can there be a consensus when one of the world's "authorities" is even changing its own guidance?

 

[fourthtunz]

Masks aren't 100%. There's still some risk of transmission, albeit greatly reduced.

Heh so that's his argument for not wearing a mask! its not 100% ;(

 

[cmaier]

Was that what got them over the top of the curve though? Or was it just that it ripped through the city fast enough so that enough people got it to create a degree of "herd immunity" and the slowing down is a natural results of the virus following a normal viral trajectory, just at a very fast rate?

Herd immunity requires >60% (or more), and also assumes a reasonably lengthy immunity. We don’t know about the second point, but the infection rate even in NY was only around 5%.

 

[konqerror]

If you listen to much of the "science", it often contradicts itself, and that is without even considering the fact that the "science" has never been agreed upon by all and there have been several complete U-turns since this started.

As a scientist myself, this is how science works. It takes years for something to be generally agreed upon, with legitimate scientific opinion going either way, up until the end. I fully believe that most "experts" are making wild-ass guesses simply because there hasn't been enough time for science to do its work.

 

[JimmyBanks6]

You accuse me of logical fallacies and then say that I said or implied "Scientific evidence came to the wrong conclusion in the past so all of science is wrong". I said nothing of the sort and I challenge you to directly quote me saying that.

Oh my.

You literally posted this: "Many years ago..."scientists" insisted the world was flat! Scientists are not infallible, but they are being treated as much by many because the world seems to have lost the ability for independent, critical thought.".

You literally made a claim that science from hundreds of years ago was wrong so it is infallible today. Don't even bother trying to defend that claim, we all read it, we all know what you are implying.

However, I would be interested to know your credentials in terms of your understanding of the scientific method.

Currently doing my Ph.D. in Mechanical Engineering. Thanks for trying.

 

[MacOG728893]

Lockdown until everyone who has it is identified and isolated. Stop with the straw man arguments.

Hilarious. I never thought I would hear Americans utter such words. Full blown lockdown until every person is identified and put into a database.. yeah I’ll pass. Try putting that into law.

 

[cmaier]

April 7th: https://www.businessinsider.com/who-no-need-for-healthy-people-to-wear-face-masks-2020-4?r=US&IR=T

June 6th: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52945210

Consensus Definition: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/consensus

How can there be a consensus when one of the world's "authorities" is even changing its own guidance?

Consensus can change over time - that doesn’t mean it’s not consensus. There is generally agreement today among the world’s scientists and doctors about what is necessary to stop the disease in light of what is known today. That’s consensus. And even with changing ideas about masks, etc., there has ALWAYS been agreement among people who actually know the field that this is a very dangerous disease, and people should socially distance and stay home. That has never changed.

 

[fourthtunz]

So people can protest by the hundreds /thousands elbow to elbow screaming (masks are useless at that point) but we are gonna just keep opening and closing businesses. Fun. Keep the irony going 2020, you’re on a hell of a role!

Masks are still effective but many protesters aren't wearing them>
What's your solution? Let everyone go back to normal until the healthcare system is overwhelmed again?