Apple and Other Companies Fear 'Looming End' of H-1B Work Visa Spousal Protection Program

[Outsiderdude26]

It's odd to see how people want companies to hire the best and brightest, but also don't want foreign workers.

Is the H-1 process prefect? No. Can it be better, yes.

We've all read stories on how Apple, Google, et al manage their employee, so we all know that if they are not up to snuff they get cut.

I went through a similar H-1 process to get a work permit to work in the UK. You have prove that you are skilled enough, and that you're not being paid less than a native citizen counter part, also show that there is a need for your skills. I doubt many talking about the h-1 process know the ins and out of how to get one or what it takes.

While most of 'indie' and 'vc' tech thrive on self-taught engineer, major tech companies want a CS degrees and with the current price of higher education that is far reach for many, creating shortages.

Just a reminder Steve Job studied liberal arts at Reed.

 

[WRXHokie]

The H1-B program has been plagued with fraud and abuses for more than two decades. There is no reason for Tata and Infosys to have built a large presence of temp workers and consultants through loopholes in the system.

Companies like Disney and others have laid off tech workers only to hire companies like Tata and Infosys to supply workers at much lower salary ranges. There should be no automatic employment eligibility for spouses. If there is, these companies get a two for one and displace American workers.

The IEEE, ACM and other professional engineering and technology organizations have for years complained about the H1-B policies.

Bingo, its been abused by companies for so long, the whole program needs to be looked at. "Highly skilled" should mean "highly skilled", and not entry level IT jobs. The program was meant for companies like Apple to hire the best of the best that are highly sought after, but its abused by the tech industry to cut costs.

Saying, "we can't find enough engineers" is just not an accurate statement. There are plenty of engineers in this country that would love to work for companies like Apple.

 

[rjohnstone]

Oh so the guy who wanted to build a wall to keep Mexicans out isn’t any more racist than Obama Trump is a big racist and misogynist!

For the millionth time, "Mexican" is not a race, it's a nationality.
As of 2010, only 21% of the population in Mexico is considered "indigenous". 47% are white, 1.2% black, and 30% "other".
The word "racist" has been thrown around and used out of context so many times that it's losing its meaning.

 

[macduke]

…as it could cause "immense trouble" for many of their workers and potentially lead to large swaths of H-1B employees having to "reconsider working for U.S. companies at all"

I mean, that is exactly what this administration wants. However, America's strength has always been found in our diversity. When we lose that, we lose everything that makes us America. Some might call that greatness, I have another word for it: hatred. Love your neighbor as yourself. It's easy to love yourself, right? Most people do. And it's easy to love those like you. But what if you loved someone different? How would that change your outlook? We're all people—insignificant specks of carbon standing on a slightly larger insignificant speck of iron and silica spinning around against the cosmic background of the universe. Nothing we will ever do will significantly impact the universe. Nothing. The only impact we will ever have is on other people. So why do we spend so much time hating? The greatest legacy you can leave is one of love and compassion. Don't waste the short time you have on this planet hating.

 

[Dave245]

For the millionth time, "Mexican" is not a race, it's a nationality.
As of 2010, only 21% of the population in Mexico is considered "indigenous". 47% are white, 1.2% black, and 30% "other".
The word "racist" has been thrown around and used out of context so many times that it's losing its meaning.

The point still stands that he wanted to build a wall to keep them out because they were Mexican, they aren’t the only ones he even wanted a Muslim Ban! Doesn’t matter how you spin it the man is a racist.

 

[rjohnstone]

You even know what an H1-B is and the qualifications to get one? I guess you don't know companies sponsoring an H1-B application (and yes, they must or it is an immediate rejection) have to declare proof they cannot get a US citizen qualified to do the job? Ergo, nobody with an H1-B is stealing anyone's job because there isn't anyone to fill it, they are generally highly educated/trained/experienced or they won't qualify and are paid very well indeed.

I can call complete ******** on this statement.
We have let go of U.S. citizens at my company and replaced them with H1-B contractors for one simple reason... we can get 2 or 3 of them for the cost of one U.S. citizen.
You know how they get past the "qualifying proof"? The contracting company hires them, not our company. The contracting company signs an affidavit that no U.S. citizen is available to fill their position. The contracting firms "qualifications" are so narrowly focused that they make it undesirable for a U.S. worker to want the position.
I've personally rejected 100's of H1-B for the simple reason of resume fraud.
When the only difference between multiple applicant resumes is the name on top, you know the resume is ********.
When we do a tech interview, a good portion can barely answer basic programming questions.

 

[kemal]

As much as I dislike President Trump, Could you find a better photo that at least shows respect for the presidential position?

Killing the functionality of the H1 visa system will harm the USA more than it will help by employing more citizens in those jobs. 1) Make the rules tighter for justifying an H1. 2) Make it an easier path to citizenship.

 

[rjohnstone]

The point still stands that he wanted to build a wall to keep them out because they were Mexican, they aren’t the only ones he even wanted a Muslim Ban! Doesn’t matter how you spin it the man is a racist.

Again, use the correct terms. Muslim is not a race, it's a religion. Muslims are from many different races.
To use your words, doesn't matter how you spin it, those actions are not racist.
Nationalistic, religious bias, etc, but not racist.

 

[Outsiderdude26]

I can call complete ******** on this statement.
We have let go of U.S. citizens at my company and replaced them with H1-B contractors for one simple reason... we can get 2 or 3 of them for the cost of one U.S. citizen.
You know how they get past the "qualifying proof"? The contracting company hires them, not our company. The contracting company signs an affidavit that no U.S. citizen is available to fill their position. The contracting firms "qualifications" are so narrowly focused that they make it undesirable for a U.S. worker to want the position.
I've personally rejected 100's of H1-B for the simple reason of resume fraud.
When the only difference between multiple applicant resumes is the name on top, you know the resume is ********.
When we do a tech interview, a good portion can barely answer basic programming questions.

This is anecdotal at best. Personal experience does not equal facts.

If your company is replacing US citizens then that is your company's issue.

Let's take the 100's you claim and around up to 500, of 335,052 in tech from a 2016 report. That is 0.015% of h-1B holders in tech.

 

[Dave245]

Again, use the correct terms. Muslim is not a race, it's a religion. Muslims are from many different races.
To use your words, doesn't matter how you spin it, those actions are not racist.
Nationalistic, religious bias, etc, but not racist.

To exclude people because they are Muslim, Mexican or whatever IS racist. It doesn’t matter if Muslim is a religion or not he wants to discriminate against them based on the colour of their skin and where they are from which is beyond disgusting.

 

[GREEN4U]

Where are you going to find them? Too many self-absorbed millennials out in the wild who expect a six-figure income right out of university. Besides, that mobile phone they have glued to their faces 24/7 is expensive, along with Starbucks and vintage hipster clothing.

People from other countries come here and work at places like McDonald's. You know what they call it? Opportunity.

Entitlement babies created the market for foreign workers.

You think people from China and India come here to work at McDonalds? No they work at SpaceX, Genentech, JPL, Apple, etc. Lol.

You must be talking about the Mexicans.

 

[blacktape242]

With a racist president like Trump I wouldn’t be surprised.

give me a break.... stop the racist crap. these people could BE WHITE too.... yah we get it you dont like trump who cares....

 

[Dave245]

give me a break.... stop the racist crap. these people could BE WHITE too.... yah we get it you dont like trump who cares....

Me racist are you kidding....o...k

 

[cmwade77]

I am against giving those that have come here illegally a huge break (although children who were brought to this country illegally should be given a chance to become legal), but to me if you are already married in your country of origin and you come here legally, you should be entitled to bring your spouse and children with you legally. They should get the same status as you get, so if you are legally allowed to work in the U.S., they should be legally allowed to work in the U.S. with the expiration date of any such status being the same for them as it is for you.

This seems only fair and logical, yes there needs to be processes in place to prevent abuse of any such rule, but this is just simple common sense.

Now would I like to see H1B visa's rules reformed? Absolutely, look at what Disney did with their I.T. department, they laid off a lot of I.T. workers and replaced them with those on H1B visas and even made them train their replacements. Technically, it isn't allowed to lay off existing workers and replace them with people on H1B visas, but they found a loophole, they hired an outside consulting firm to do the I.T. work and the outside consulting firm hired those on H1B visas. In such a case, I think the outside consulting firm should be required to offer the jobs first to those that were laid off at the same pay and benefits or better than what they were getting at Disney and then if there were additional people needed, they could hires those on H1B visas, IF they couldn't find any American citizen or someone with a green card, etc. to do the work for a reasonable rate for at least a year.

 

[rjohnstone]

To exclude people because they are Muslim, Mexican or whatever IS racist. It doesn’t matter if Muslim is a religion or not he wants to discriminate against them based on the colour of their skin and where they are from which is beyond disgusting.

Do you want a dictionary?
Words have meaning. Use the correct words.
Descrimination based on nationality or religious affiliation is not a racist act.
Bigotry is the word you're looking for.
And no, the two are not interchangeable.

 

[0007776]

While US companies move factories to China and hiring foreigners first, China became the world richest nation and US became the world poorest nation with more than $20 trillion debt.

You really need to get out more and travel if you think that the US is anywhere close to the poorest nation.

 

[Dave245]

Do you want a dictionary?
Words have meaning. Use the correct words.
Descrimination based on nationality or religious affiliation is not a racist act.
Bigotry is the word you're looking for.
And no, the two are not interchangeable.

No I’m good thanks, Trump is many things including a misogynist and racist. The guy clearly has issues with people who are not white (hence racist) that was my point. His comments are ridiculous including the famous one where he clearly thinks it’s ok to grab women in a certain area of their body without their consent (I won’t say his actual words because swearing isn’t allowed on the forum).

 

[rjohnstone]

This is anecdotal at best. Personal experience does not equal facts.

If your company is replacing US citizens then that is your company's issue.

Let's take the 100's you claim and around up to 500, of 335,052 in tech from a 2016 report. That is 0.015% of h-1B holders in tech.

We have over 80,000 employees and contractors. 500 would be the amount reviewed in a 3 month period.
I work with many in the tech industry and those that I have personally talked with share similar stories.
I have friends that work at IBM, Intel, PayPal, Google, Apple, Wells Fargo, Chase, Discover, and a host of other companies. I've been in the tech business for over 25 years.
I've watched companies lay off entire divisions and replace them with H1-B staff in an effort to increase profits. I've been forced to train my replacement on two occasions. Once when I worked at IBM and another time at a tech startup that, to my delight, no longer exists.
Those are facts and ask anyone who's been in the tech industry for more than a few years and they'll tell you the same.
The fortunate thing now is the pendulum is starting to swing the other way, at least at my company.
We're bringing in college interns (well.paid) instead of H1-B contractors.
We've setup agreements with several universities to enable this program and it's been great so far.
[doublepost=1516294688][/doublepost]

No I’m good thanks, Trump is many things including a misogynist and racist. The guy clearly has issues with people who are not white (hence racist) that was my point. His comments are ridiculous including the famous one where he clearly thinks it’s ok to grab women in a certain area of their body without their consent (I won’t say his actual words because swearing isn’t allowed on the forum).

You can swear. The filter will catch it.
Trying to bypass the filter is a big no no.
As for Trump, I don't really give a damn about him.
He is who he is and no one is going to change that.
The people will hold him accountable for his actions.

 

[tridley68]

Oh so the guy who wanted to build a wall to keep Mexicans out isn’t any more racist than Obama Trump is a big racist and misogynist!

There is a right way and a wrong way to enter this country if this wall makes them enter this country the proper way then so be it. Boo Hoo they have to follow the law.

 

[sentential]

We have over 80,000 employees and contractors. 500 would be the amount reviewed in a 3 month period.
I work with many in the tech industry and those that I have personally talked with share similar stories.
I have friends that work at IBM, Intel, PayPal, Google, Apple, Wells Fargo, Chase, Discover, and a host of other companies. I've been in the tech business for over 25 years.
I've watched companies lay off entire divisions and replace them with H1-B staff in an effort to increase profits. I've been forced to train my replacement on two occasions. Once when I worked at IBM and another time at a tech startup that, to my delight, no longer exists.
Those are facts and ask anyone who's been in the tech industry for more than a few years and they'll tell you the same.
The fortunate thing now is the pendulum is starting to swing the other way, at least at my company.
We're bringing in college interns (well.paid) instead of H1-B contractors.
We've setup agreements with several universities to enable this program and it's been great so far.
[doublepost=1516294688][/doublepost]
You can swear. The filter will catch it.
Trying to bypass the filter is a big no no.
As for Trump, I don't really give a damn about him.
He is who he is and no one is going to change that.
The people will hold him accountable for his actions.

Amen!

Exactly, you've got a bunch of shills on here talking up diversity and 'murrica and all of these sophist ideas that don't work in practice. Diversity doesn't pay the bills, diversity doesn't help get your kids through school. Our education system necessitates these "high" wages regardless of race and makes it impossible to compete with someone who doesn't have nearly the same level of student debt, healthcare, etc. Plus when they pay these people peanuts and they bring their families they immediately qualify for welfare, chip and everything else. How is this a good idea?

But again the key point is that their legal status is dependant ON THEIR JOB. If they're fired they are IMMEDIATELY deported. Do you think they speak up about OSHA or other workplace violations? No. This is bad for everyone, bad for wages, bad for safety and bad for our country. If you want to talk about REAL legal immigration then fine, I totally get that. But these quasi-americans are screwing everyone here out of a decent job because of the loopholes and abuses that come with them.

This is the exact opposite of racism. Racism is keeping these people in limbo as a permanent underclass while lowering the wages of everyone in the field in the same breath. This is the same argument the Democrats make: "Who will pick our crops??" Are you kidding me!? How isn't THAT racist! Is that all you people think they are capable of? Scrubbing toilets and picking cotton err I mean strawberries?

 

[KdParker]

Oh God no, they'd have to hire people from this country! And pay them a living wage!

That is not the problem.

When a company doesn't have qualified employee/applicant to fill a position is the only time you can hire and sponsor an HIB visa.

Since hiring and sponsoring an HIB visa normally cost more for the companies, I am sure they would rather hire US citizens.

 

[NIKKG]

Me racist are you kidding....o...k

You sound like a real racist against white people.

 

[Dave245]

There is a right way and a wrong way to enter this country if this wall makes them enter this country the proper way then so be it. Boo Hoo they have to follow the law.

By the looks of it there will be no wall now but for Trump it wasn’t about that, he didn’t want them in the country full stop. I agree people should be legal but they should also have the same opportunities as everyone else! Regardless of what country they are from.

 

[jav6454]

I can call complete ******** on this statement.
We have let go of U.S. citizens at my company and replaced them with H1-B contractors for one simple reason... we can get 2 or 3 of them for the cost of one U.S. citizen.
You know how they get past the "qualifying proof"? The contracting company hires them, not our company. The contracting company signs an affidavit that no U.S. citizen is available to fill their position. The contracting firms "qualifications" are so narrowly focused that they make it undesirable for a U.S. worker to want the position.
I've personally rejected 100's of H1-B for the simple reason of resume fraud.
When the only difference between multiple applicant resumes is the name on top, you know the resume is ********.
When we do a tech interview, a good portion can barely answer basic programming questions.

This is why the H-1B is broken. As someone who worked hard for my spot here, it is sad. When applying for work visa, I was rejected once because the quota was met. I didn't make it the second time because of an error on my employers part. The third? We switched over the L-1, which was much simpler.

These companies that send out IT guys are so full of it and ruining it. My job? Digital/RFID Heat Transfer Engineer. How many US citizens do you know with that experience? I'll tell you, 2. That's it. How many job openings? 6. All with my company. Yet I didn't make it easy because contracting firms were bringing in IT guys from India/China and flooding the requests... F**king scam.

 

[Dave245]

You sound like a real racist against white people.

So for saying that everyone should have the same equal standing and opportunities I’m racist against white people....o....k