Apple and Other Companies Fear 'Looming End' of H-1B Work Visa Spousal Protection Program

[sentential]

That is not the problem.

When a company doesn't have qualified employee/applicant to fill a position is the only time you can hire and sponsor an HIB visa.

Since hiring and sponsoring an HIB visa normally cost more for the companies, I am sure they would rather hire US citizens.

What about the abuses do you not understand? I'll keep it simple for you. Apple: Hiring Software Engineer 10/hr no benefits APPLY HERE!.... wait no one wants the job? Guess we'll have to bring an illegal in. That's the game they are playing. They absolutely could find someone.... IF they paid a living wage; they don't want this!

 

[robbyx]

What are you talking about? Here in the greater Silicon Valley there's a shortage of qualified engineers. Every tech company I've worked for in the area hired H1-B engineers at the same wage (and benefits) as US citizens with engineering degrees.

Exactly. So many people commenting have no clue how these visas, much less the tech industry, work. They aren't in the valley, they don't work for tech companies, and they have absolutely no real-world experience with this issue.

 

[KdParker]

By spending years working with H1B Indians. In fact, one of my good friends is from India who came over on an H1B visa years ago, and he said that the amount of fraud is staggering. People with connections, but no experience and fake degrees are routinely given jobs and, obviously, screw **** up beyond repair. There are obviously some very smart and talented people coming over, but the vast majority of low and mid level IT H1Bs do a subpar job. As the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

Again, you re under the impression that H1Bs are less expensive to the companies doing the hiring. After fees, and having to pay a guaranteed salary range and sponsoring H1Bs often cost more.

 

[sentential]

This is why the H-1B is broken. As someone who worked hard for my spot here, it is sad. When applying for work visa, I was rejected once because the quota was met. I didn't make it the second time because of an error on my employers part. The third? We switched over the L-1, which was much simpler.

These companies that send out IT guys are so full of it and ruining it. My job? Digital/RFID Heat Transfer Engineer. How many US citizens do you know with that experience? I'll tell you, 2. That's it. How many job openings? 6. All with my company. Yet I didn't make it easy because contracting firms were bringing in IT guys from India/China and flooding the requests... F**king scam.

Exactly! The simple solution is this: Find a smart kid, pay to train him and blamo problem solved. These companies want ready-made workers that do not exist and they'd rather train some poor schmuck who's life depends on him being agreeable.
[doublepost=1516295795][/doublepost]

Exactly. So many people commenting have no clue how these visas, much less the tech industry, work. They aren't in the valley, they don't work for tech companies, and they have absolutely no real-world experience with this issue.

Explain this?

http://www.businessinsider.com/google-employee-lives-in-truck-in-parking-lot-2015-10

*THERE IS NO SHORTAGE* these people simply don't want to cough up the money to find good talent. They would rather have 5-6 of H1bs half-ass the work then hire a single talented engineer.

 

[KdParker]

What about the abuses do you not understand? I'll keep it simple for you. Apple: Hiring Software Engineer 10/hr no benefits APPLY HERE!.... wait no one wants the job? Guess we'll have to bring an illegal in. That's the game they are playing. They absolutely could find someone.... IF they paid a living wage; they don't want this!

goodness...did you read the story?

This not about illegals being hired or brought in.

H1B visa are not illegals and they have a guaranteed salary range based on the job description.

 

[sentential]

goodness...did you read the story?

This not about illegals being hired or brought in.

H1B visa are not illegals and they have a guaranteed salary range based on the job description.

Guaranteed at half what should be the going rate therefor this guy lives in his car because he cant afford rent BECAUSE of the H1bs. How can you not see this? If there was a *real* shortage these people would be rolling in cash. They AREN'T because of the wage suppression caused by the rampant import of H1b holders

 

[KdParker]

You sound like a real racist against white people.

You know...that is not a thing.

you can only be racist against a minority group.

 

[Glideslope]

What are you talking about? Here in the greater Silicon Valley there's a shortage of qualified engineers. Every tech company I've worked for in the area hired H1-B engineers at the same wage (and benefits) as US citizens with engineering degrees.

Precisely. All the "Hire American" comments in here are mainly from those not in corporations heavily dependent on qualified engineers. Our oldest is a CH E for a Global Corporation working in Speciality Materials. They have over a hundred Engineering Positions open. They compete with multiple corporations for every applicant including the H1-B people they have. They are a HIGHLY desired employer.

There are simply not enough educated American's to take these positions. Now, I do agree H1-B selections can be taken advantage of through lower wages and such. I do not support that. However, people in these threads talking about killing the H1-B so American's can simply step in need a reality check on the failures of our education system.

 

[KdParker]

Guaranteed at half what should be the going rate therefor this guy lives in his car because he cant afford rent BECAUSE of the H1bs

Again you are completely wrong.

Most of the time it is more than the prevailing wage in the IT market. If anything it raises up the salaries for other IT professionals in the the same field.

 

[sentential]

Precisely. All the "Hire American" comments in here are mainly from those not in corporations heavily dependent on qualified engineers. Our oldest is a CH E for a Global Corporation working in Speciality Materials. They have over a hundred Engineering Positions open. They compete with multiple corporations for every applicant including the very few H1-B people they have. They are a HIGHLY desired employer.

There simply are not where enough educated American's to take these positions. Now, I do agree H1-B selections can be taken advantage of through lower wages and such. I do not support that. However, people in these threads talking about killing the H1-B so American's can simply step in need a reality check on the failures of our education system.

What we have right now is the Boomer divide between them and the Millenials of "I've got mine why don't you have yours?" The issue of a shortfall in qualified people is a simple one, train them. That's what they got and that's what should be done. Bringing people in using H1bs displaces native born citizens, that's simply a fact.

Again you are completely wrong.

Most of the time it is more than the prevailing wage in the IT market. If anything it raises up the salaries for other IT professionals in the the same field.

That is factually inaccurate as evidenced by the 400+ million dollar scheme that Apple and others were CONVICTED of to prevent poaching and blacklisting competitor's employees to: you guess it! suppress wages! How is this hard to understand?

 

[jdillings]

Let's not forget that the tech industry is not the only one abusing H1Bs. Remember last year it came out that McDonalds fired its accountants in Ohio and replaced them with cheaper accountants on H1B visas.

 

[sentential]

Let's not forget that the tech industry is not the only one abusing H1Bs. Remember last year it came out that McDonalds fired its accountants in Ohio and replaced them with cheaper accountants on H1B visas.

Precisely, if H1bs are so well compensated and skilled why are their spouses (man or woman) pining SO hard for the ability to work if they weren't dirt ****ing poor?

 

[jav6454]

What we have right now is the Boomer divide between them and the Millenials of "I've got mine why don't you have yours?" The issue of a shortfall in qualified people is a simple one, train them. That's what they got and that's what should be done. Bringing people in using H1bs displaces native born citizens, that's simply a fact.

Training is sometimes not an option. Hw do you train a college grad who obtain a degree in business or some liberal art degree to perform a complex engineering job? You can't because the engineering foundation isn't even there.

Yes, there is an educational divide today. However, H-1B should not be used to bring in cheap labor that is readily available already.

 

[jdillings]

That is factually inaccurate as evidenced by the 400+ million dollar scheme that Apple and others were CONVICTED of to prevent poaching and blacklisting competitor's employees to: you guess it! suppress wages! How is this hard to understand?

Yep and they not only did it in the tech industry but also the computer animation industry:
http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/disney-settlement-wage-fixing-anti-poaching-animation-1201975084/

 

[sentential]

Training is sometimes not an option. Hw do you train a college grad who obtain a degree in business or some liberal art degree to perform a complex engineering job? You can't because the engineering foundation isn't even there.

Yes, there is an educational divide today. However, H-1B should not be used to bring in cheap labor that is readily available already.

Again, ********. There are plenty of mechanical engineers out there who would jump at the opportunity. The reason why there is an educational divide is because traditional school was never intended to be the HR training department for Apple. You got that training paid for by someone and it wasn't in school. That either came from your employer or the military, the breakdown is that now that labor is so cheap because of people using H1bs why bother training anyone? It's cheaper to import it elsewhere and is fundamentally dismantling the country.

 

[KdParker]

What we have right now is the Boomer divide between them and the Millenials of "I've got mine why don't you have yours?" The issue of a shortfall in qualified people is a simple one, train them. That's what they got and that's what should be done. Bringing people in using H1bs displaces native born citizens, that's simply a fact.

IT workers in any specific field go through years of education and then 5 - 10 years of work experience to be considered skilled or senior in there field.

When you need a skilled IT developer/analyst right now, you don't just 'train up' some unqualified folks and suddenly they will start producing.

 

[robbyx]

Do most Americans buy Made in USA:

Snap On tools?
Frye boots?
Brooks Brothers suits?
Stihl power tools?

The list can go on, and the answer is overwhelmingly no. The problem is Americans are unwilling to pay higher prices for goods to keep those jobs in the US so they go where it is cheaper. The other issue is manufacturing is coming back but it is highly automated with far fewer, but more highly trained, employees. The days of GM employing a large workforce to hand assemble transmissions is over, no matter what anyone says.

And job flight is not just a US phenomena, Japan, Korea and increasingly China is seeing lower skill manufacturing jobs leave for cheaper labor markets.

I love my Frye boots, but sadly they make very few of them in the US anymore. I just bought a few new pair and all were made in either China or Mexico.

Most Americans don't care one bit about "Made in USA". They love their "Made in China" MAGA hats, along with all the other cartloads of Chinese-made things they buy every day at Walmart. The cognitive dissonance would be funny if it wasn't so alarming and terrible for our country.

Manufacturing jobs are gone for good. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in pretty deep denial. Whatever manufacturing does return to the States will be largely automated. Ultimately all manufacturing is moving in that direction. Twenty years from now, humans won't build much. Robots will be doing most of that work, be it here in the US, China, or anywhere else. That ship has sailed.

 

[sentential]

Yep and they not only did it in the tech industry but also the computer animation industry:
http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/disney-settlement-wage-fixing-anti-poaching-animation-1201975084/

Exactly, people are simply burying their heads in the sand because they like the company personally for their services and don't actually get to see the sausage made. Those of us that do know the truth!

IT workers in any specific field go through years of education and then 5 - 10 years of work experience to be considered skilled or senior in there field.

When you need a skilled IT developer/analyst right now, you don't just 'train up' some unqualified folks and suddenly they will start producing.

So shortsighted. Rome wasn't built in a day and if they are so incompetent that they cannot train their future workforce as their current ones retire they deserve fold. Giving them the easy option of replacing them full stock only hurts everyone who steps up to the plate AFTER this began.

Once you start this trend eventually no one will have the money to buy the products Apple is selling them for. This is literally a suicide pact economically speaking.

 

[rjohnstone]

You know...that is not a thing.

you can only be racist against a minority group.

???
You watch too much cable news.

The very definition of a racist has nothing to do with a person being a minority.

Anyone can be a racist.

rac·ist
ˈrāsəst/
noun
noun: racist; plural noun: racists

1. 1.
   a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
   "the comments have led to her being called a racist"
   synonyms: racial bigot, racialist, xenophobe, chauvinist, supremacist More
   
   

adjective
noun: racist; plural noun: racists; adjective: racist

1. 1.
   showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believing that a particular race is superior to another.
   "we are investigating complaints about racist abuse at the club"

 

[wlossw]

I don't get it. In Canada corporations where using a similar program to bring in foreign workers that are willing to undercut local workers by working for less money or poorer benefits. If the situation is similar in the States, the simple solution is to conduct a review of the going wage in a particular position or industry and then force companies to pay more than that to any potential foreign hires. If the going rate is 30$ an hour, for example, make foreign workers collect a minimum of 40$ per hour. In the case of low wage jobs like the service industry, make employers pay 5$ per hour more than the minimum wage.

I guarantee that these companies would start "discovering" and training a whole bunch of potential employees right in their backyard, and those that cant shouldn't mind paying the premium. And feel free to take that extra off the top as taxes to fund social programs for citizens.

These programs are a disgrace.

 

[jav6454]

Again, ********. There are plenty of mechanical engineers out there who would jump at the opportunity. The reason why there is an educational divide is because traditional school was never intended to be the HR training department for Apple. You got that training paid for by someone and it wasn't in school. That either came from your employer or the military, the breakdown is that now that labor is so cheap because of people using H1bs why bother training anyone? It's cheaper to import it elsewhere and is fundamentally dismantling the country.

Not quite. You missed my point. US citizens that Mechanical engineers are not unemployed and they have jobs. All my american friends who are engineers are employed and they earn pretty good. Some around 6 figures. However, my other american friends with non-STEM degrees? Barely making above 53k and some not even in their fields.

My point being, you may ask? You have the skilled labor and they are working right; however, how do you train a business oriented employee into a engineering job? Short answer: You can't. It takes too long. This is where the educational divide is taking it's toll. This gap is the one that the H-1B is meant to fill. However, if you want to fix the issue you need to start teaching more science and math at schools and get kids to get hooked on STEM degrees.

The problem? You have jobs in IT for instance, that lots of american applicants that are being filled with H-1B. This is where the abuse happens and that is why we have such a mess.

 

[KdParker]

Again, ********. There are plenty of mechanical engineers out there who would jump at the opportunity. The reason why there is an educational divide is because traditional school was never intended to be the HR training department for Apple. You got that training paid for by someone and it wasn't in school. That either came from your employer or the military, the breakdown is that now that labor is so cheap because of people using H1bs why bother training anyone? It's cheaper to import it elsewhere and is fundamentally dismantling the country.

Again. Wrong.

Companies never did that training, you got a degree and then you went to work. Just like alot of us in the IT world did and still do.

Also you are wrong if you think cheap labor when talking about H1B visas.

 

[GuruZac]

What, no crackdown on H-2s? You know, the one Trump uses to not employ Americans at his clubs and hotels.

Judging by your profile pic, and utterly irrational signature in regards to Trump and keeping people of color out, you can’t possibly have anything meaningful to add to a very serious issue on immigration and how to tackle the various issues surrounding it.

 

[sentential]

I don't get it. In Canada corporations where using a similar program to bring in foreign workers that are willing to undercut local workers by working for less money or poorer benefits. If the situation is similar in the States, the simple solution is to conduct a review of the going wage in a particular position or industry and then force companies to pay more than that to any potential foreign hires. If the going rate is 30$ an hour, for example, make foreign workers collect a minimum of 40$ per hour. In the case of low wage jobs like the service industry, make employers pay 5$ per hour more than the minimum wage.

I guarantee that these companies would start "discovering" and training a whole bunch of potential employees right in their backyard, and those that cant shouldn't mind paying the premium. And feel free to take that extra off the top as taxes to fund social programs for citizens.

These programs are a disgrace.

The truth of it is, these sort of people who are understandably desperate and rely on government assistant almost entirely vote Democrat. Is it any wonder why the Democrats continue to push for unfettered immigration? This is all about consolidating power, pure and simple.
[doublepost=1516297257][/doublepost]

Again. Wrong.

Companies never did that training, you got a degree and then you went to work. Just like alot of us in the IT world did and still do.

Also you are wrong if you think cheap labor when talking about H1B visas.

So 18 or 24 year old you could instantly do you job without any assistance whatsoever at the level you do now? Laughible. People grow and learn that is literally where the whole "respect your elders" comes from. We aren't reptiles who rely purely in instinct.

 

[KdParker]

I don't get it. In Canada corporations where using a similar program to bring in foreign workers that are willing to undercut local workers by working for less money or poorer benefits. If the situation is similar in the States, the simple solution is to conduct a review of the going wage in a particular position or industry and then force companies to pay more than that to any potential foreign hires. If the going rate is 30$ an hour, for example, make foreign workers collect a minimum of 40$ per hour. In the case of low wage jobs like the service industry, make employers pay 5$ per hour more than the minimum wage.

I guarantee that these companies would start "discovering" and training a whole bunch of potential employees right in their backyard, and those that cant shouldn't mind paying the premium. And feel free to take that extra off the top as taxes to fund social programs for citizens.

These programs are a disgrace.

What is your point? H1B visas are paid the prevailing wage for the market, so there is not any undercutting of wages in this case.