Apple and Other Companies Fear 'Looming End' of H-1B Work Visa Spousal Protection Program

[robbyx]

Well eeeexxxxcuseee me bigshot. Did you not read that he "saved" 90% of his income by living in a truck? Meaning 90% of his income went to rent or did that little nugget escape you? Yes shut down the rabble and the poors, that'll fix it!

Who in their right mind would endure that situation if they had no other choice? Why is it OK that this goes on? If google paid enough this wouldn't happen and they reason they CAN is because of the H1bs.

Cause -> Effect

As for the dorms that is LITERALLY bringing back the company store and script, both of which Amazon is starting to do for their H1B personnel.

My comment stands. I still don't see what the fact that he's a smart kid who doesn't mind living in a truck with no windows has to do with foreign workers.

The Bay Area is ridiculously expensive. People are well paid, better than probably anywhere else in the country. How is it Google's fault that a 1BR apartment in the Marina can rent for upward of $6000? Do you really think if Google doubled salaries that prices would all just stay the same? Fat chance.

Most tech companies already have a company store. Brandon's struggles are a reality for young tech workers in the valley. Dorms would solve a lot of problems. If suddenly tech salaries all jumped, you can rest assured housing costs would jump too. Dorms, or more appropriately Employee Housing, would buffer that. Live close to work, no commute, and affordable. After a few years, you've paid off your student loans and you've put some money in the bank for a down payment on a house.

 

[Glideslope]

Again that is full stop wrong. No one is talking about John or Suzie working on a basket weaving degree. There are plenty of underemployed millennials who are every bit as talented as you or your son who simply were in the wrong place at the wrong time economically speaking. As a result it is easier to toss these people to the curb while others continue to consolidate money and influence.

Society is a group effort, trying to denigrate another human being simply because they think differently or have a different life experience than you is the very thing people accuse Trump of. No everyone lives in the valley. The US is not New York or Los Angeles. This whole "Americans are lazy" is completely false.

Well we sill simply have to disagree. Your view is too simplistic. Your talking in racist terms about “Basket Weavers.” I’m discussing a generation of incorrectly uneducated Americans.
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I don't believe most think that killing H1-B is the solution. The original problem is that verifying that American applicants were not qualified for the job is not strictly enforced. You would assume being American you get first dibs on jobs within your own country, but not anymore.

We cannot rely on supply and demand to increase our wages because supply is suddenly coming from across the globe. Telling students from third-world countries they will make $130,000 a year is plenty to entice them to go into STEM fields. If you told American students they would make at least $500,000 coming out of school, I believe it would have the same effect. But we will never reach those wages (outside Silicon Valley) as long as we can entice workers for cheaper.

And being able to overwork H1B employees gives you more bang for your buck.

As I stated prior. I do not support in any form giving H1-B applicants less in salary or benefits than a citizen. If citizens were to go for that “$500,000” position and make the cut we are still a generation away.

 

[blacktape242]

Me racist are you kidding....o...k

did i call you racist? nuuuupe...

 

[Macintoshrumors]

With a racist president like Trump I wouldn’t be surprised.

I would like some proof he is racist and not some regurgitated liberal bs you see in the MSM.

 

[Dave245]

I would like some proof he is racist and not some regurgitated liberal bs you see in the MSM.

Seriously? Unless you have been living under a rock it’s obvious that he’s not only racist but misogynistic as well, for example did you not see the comment he made about grabbing women by the p**** it’s disgusting.

 

[randyhudson]

What are you talking about? Here in the greater Silicon Valley there's a shortage of qualified engineers. Every tech company I've worked for in the area hired H1-B engineers at the same wage (and benefits) as US citizens with engineering degrees.

There is a shortage because the cost of living there is too high for the salary. Yes, citizens and H1-B engineers have the same wages and benefits. That is precisely the problem. H1-B employees are willing to work for less, so everyone gets paid less.

 

[KdParker]

So shortsighted. Rome wasn't built in a day and if they are so incompetent that they cannot train their future workforce as their current ones retire they deserve fold. Giving them the easy option of replacing them full stock only hurts everyone who steps up to the plate AFTER this began.

Once you start this trend eventually no one will have the money to buy the products Apple is selling them for. This is literally a suicide pact economically speaking.

Again, you are just wrong.

The training is out there, it is called college. Apple has entry level positions like most companies, and when there aren't collage graduate applicants to fill the void, they hire H1Bs (which don't drive down wages because of pay set by the market).

If you're a US born developer/analyst/engineer graduate, getting a job in the IT field for a good wage is not that hard if you are 'worth your salt'.

 

[Art Mark]

At times it seems Americans are more and more afraid of competing against 'others'.

 

[KdParker]

There is a shortage because the cost of living there is too high for the salary. Yes, citizens and H1-B engineers have the same wages and benefits. That is precisely the problem. H1-B employees are willing to work for less, so everyone gets paid less.

H1-B employees don't set wages.

The market sets the wages for H1-B employees and there is a minimum that must be paid which is normally higher than the going wage for that market.

 

[Art Mark]

By spending years working with H1B Indians. In fact, one of my good friends is from India who came over on an H1B visa years ago, and he said that the amount of fraud is staggering. People with connections, but no experience and fake degrees are routinely given jobs and, obviously, screw **** up beyond repair. There are obviously some very smart and talented people coming over, but the vast majority of low and mid level IT H1Bs do a subpar job. As the saying goes, you get what you pay for.

Every system has 'fraud'. If indeed the system is 'mostly' fraudulent, than it should be altered and investigated. It would be good to have facts here, not off-hand remarks from friends. A corrupt system is no joking matter and should be investigated. But thinking that no good has come from this and that there are millions of skilled Americans who are denied jobs because of it seems rather silly too. The coal miners whom we have heard so much about are not retraining in IT (well, for one reason they turned down retraining funds). So yes, if it is a corrupt program than it should be dealt with. But completely shutting it down seems to help no one. You don't find who were the corrupt individuals and punish them and you limit the pool of workers who have skills. In my experience most companies need more skilled workers with an education. I'm not sure it matters where they come from if they fit that criteria.

 

[KdParker]

I would like some proof he is racist and not some regurgitated liberal bs you see in the MSM.

What proof would you accept is really the question. I doubt there is any at all.

 

[ksnell]

With a racist president like Trump I wouldn’t be surprised.

Racist because he is pushing for a merit based system? Yeah okay. Isn't it ACTUALLY racist if you are specifically picking people based on their country of origin?

Everyone is all bent out of shape about this Norway comment, when perhaps the reason he said it was because he had met with the Prime Minister of Norway the day prior. When asked specifically by Jim Acosta from CNN, he said he wants everyone to come, but based on merit.

 

[jlc1978]

I love my Frye boots, but sadly they make very few of them in the US anymore. I just bought a few new pair and all were made in either China or Mexico.

Yup. You have to select Made in USA on web site to buy American made ones. Taht said, teh Mexican made ones are also high quality.

Most Americans don't care one bit about "Made in USA". They love their "Made in China" MAGA hats, along with all the other cartloads of Chinese-made things they buy every day at Walmart. The cognitive dissonance would be funny if it wasn't so alarming and terrible for our country.

People like to get the lowest price but do not realize the impact it has on jobs.

Manufacturing jobs are gone for good. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in pretty deep denial. Whatever manufacturing does return to the States will be largely automated. Ultimately all manufacturing is moving in that direction. Twenty years from now, humans won't build much. Robots will be doing most of that work, be it here in the US, China, or anywhere else. That ship has sailed.

Which also has companies worried about finding talent to run the factories of the future.
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The truth of it is, these sort of people who are understandably desperate and rely on government assistant almost entirely vote Democrat. Is it any wonder why the Democrats continue to push for unfettered immigration? This is all about consolidating power, pure and simple.

Oddly enough, a lot of public assistance money goes to reliably Republican southern states. They may not like Washington but they love their government checks.

 

[gotluck]

At times it seems Americans are more and more afraid of competing against 'others'.

No, Americans are more and more afraid of our standard of living decreasing to that of 'others'.

 

[slu]

In this thread, mostly people who know literally nothing about the H1-B program, what it is supposed to be used for, or how it can (and frequently is) be abused. Let alone how little people seems to know about macroeconomics in general.

At the very least, read this before you comment: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa

It is just a wiki article, but it at least cites the basics of the program, which several of you are lacking.

 

[cfurlin]

Do tell us what reality you are living in

The reality where I want this from US candidates:

And instead all I can find is this:

 

[ThisIsNotMe]

No company trains you unless what you do is highly specific and crucial to leave to flow of time. Otherwise, all companies expect employees to grow as the keep on working. Yes, companies do have training events, but these events are not meant to supplant the basis taught at college.

Yes, that is called training and experience.

 

[jav6454]

Yes, that is called training and experience.

More like it's call experience.

 

[2010mini]

Wow you mean, American workers would have to be hired for American jobs? THAT'S SO RACIST!

I though the GOP mantra was always: Goverment should step out of the way and let the free market regulate itself. That government shouldn’t pick “winners and losers”???

 

[ThisIsNotMe]

More like it's call experience.

So your argument is that companies place people in an office/cubicle and magically in 5 years they have 'experience' without a single ounce of training or guidance?

 

[Naraxus]

Adios illegals. Good riddance.

 

[techwhiz]

H1-B employees don't set there wages.

The market sets the wages for H1-B employees and there is a minimum that must be paid which is normally higher than the going wage for that market.

Patently not true.
The wage is almost never higher.
I work in Silicon Valley and see the posting for H1-B with the salary on the walls of lunchrooms.
I've working in The Valley for almost 30 years and I see how the system is gamed.

Look at the following links from our own GAO and the IEEE
GAO -> https://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-26
eWeek from 10 years ago even -> http://www.eweek.com/it-management/thousands-of-h-1b-workers-are-underpaid-gao-reports
IEEE -> https://spectrum.ieee.org/view-from...commentary-the-h1b-problem-as-ieeeusa-sees-it

An excerpt from that 2017 article:
"For example, you point out that, according to H1BPay.com, Facebook pays its software engineers in Menlo Park, on average, US $138,294, which is a pretty good salary. However, Smartorg pays software engineers on H-1B visas in Menlo Park only $80,000 annually, which is a ridiculously low salary for the San Jose region.

This difference illustrates an important point about H-1B visas. While some companies pay their H-1B employees’ salaries equivalent to what American workers get paid, many companies do not. In fact, most H-1B visas are used, not by Facebook and other big tech companies, but by outsourcing and consulting companies.

And the salaries paid by those companies tell a different story.

For example, Wipro, a large outsourcing company, paid its 104 program analysts in San Jose exactly $60,000 each in 2016. Brocade, in contrast, paid their programmer analysts $130,000 in the same city.

Similarly, Infosys, the largest user of H-1B visas, paid their 158 technology analysts in New York City, one of the most expensive cities in the world, $67,832 on average last year, not enough to rent a closet in that city."

Migrant Tech Workers Abused -> https://spectrum.ieee.org/view-from...d-by-contract-labor-firms-investigation-shows

So please don't tell me about H1-B having a positive impact on an industry that I have worked in for the last 30 years.

 

[btrach144]

Where are you going to find them? Too many self-absorbed millennials out in the wild who expect a six-figure income right out of university. Besides, that mobile phone they have glued to their faces 24/7 is expensive, along with Starbucks and vintage hipster clothing.

People from other countries come here and work at places like McDonald's. You know what they call it? Opportunity.

Entitlement babies created the market for foreign workers.

Lol talk about entitled ageist yourself.

 

[jav6454]

So your argument is that companies place people in an office/cubicle and magically in 5 years they have 'experience' without a single ounce of training or guidance?

Experience is both training and having lived through situations. But we are deviating from my original point.

 

[2010mini]

I would like some proof he is racist and not some regurgitated liberal bs you see in the MSM.

Why do people think only liberals find Trump racist?

I am far from being a liberal and I find Trump appalling.

Trump has been sued for racist policies in his residential real estate. He chose to settle out of court as the evidence was there and he would’ve lost.

That is on record with the courts in case you believe it is “made up liberal bs”