You realize that people who do not have problems do not report it. Some people who might have a problem do stuff quietly. I understand the 2015-2017 had an issue, but not the 2018. That is likely a small # (2018 people) who happen to be a vocal minority. Don’t know exact #s for 2018, but seriously is it blown up over-proportionally? Just a thought
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Apple Apologizes Over 'Small Number' of Users Who Continue to Have Issues With Third-Generation MacBook Keyboards
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So rather than blame poor management, address it and make changes as required. None of this is a requirement of any job with the knowledge of good work practise. Working in a coal mine and being daily at risk in the event the mine collapses on you is a serious concern. Sure things have been implemented to make is less risky. Sitting in front of a computer typing code, eating and drinking over the keyboard without taking frequent walk breaks is the reason why people need smart watches to remind them of their health. The sad part is that all this is common sense and if done, that individual would not need these devices to remind them and encourage them. If you are using these devices to monitor medical related concerns that is another thing. A solution to a problem that was created by the industry that provides a solution, oh the irony.
Please understand I am not targeting you, it’s just I hear so many eventual horror stories from people that could have been addressed sooner with common sense practises. You are ruining your health to make a lot of money only to spend it on health related issues later on and to take vacations to de stress, there is no logic in this thought process to me.
Thanks for taking the time to help. I've read everything and will do my best to improve my situation with the advice you've provided. Definitely agree spending 20 hours in front of a computer without breaks is not very healthy.
Form over function, when a company goes overboard in its design direction and ruins the usability and longevity for many. Look at the battery life on the iPhone, camera bump, etc.
The good news is that I get to save my money and my 2014/15 is still very capable.
Question: IF Apple were to update the 12" MacBook (my fingers are crossed that they do), and IF around that time, Apple also comes out with a Fourth-Generation butterfly keyboard, what's the possibility that Apple updates the 12" MacBook to the newer Fourth-Gen keyboard? I'm concerned that if there's a rMB update, they'll go first to second-gen, then third, instead of skipping those and going straight to fourth.
Back in Fall 2016, I was looking forward to upgrading my 2009 15” MBP. The price hike from the 2015 15” MBP was a shock but not insurmountable. I didn’t want the TouchBar but figured what the heck. Everything was fine... apart from the keyboard.
I made multiple visits to the Apple store, each time trying to convince myself I could make things work with that keyboard. I hated it, and my sentiment never changed. In fact, I used my old laptop mainly in clamshell mode with an external keyboard, so the laptop keyboard shouldn’t be an issue right? Typing on that thing felt like tapping directly on the Apple tables. It was so jarring and no getting away from it. Some people love it but it just wasn’t for me.
Completely dejected I built a hackintosh and never looked back.
2.5 years later and now in hindsight, I see how lucky I’ve been. I still want an MBP but a compromised (and unfortunately stunningly expensive to replace) keyboard is such a showstopper.
I made multiple visits to the Apple store, each time trying to convince myself I could make things work with that keyboard. I hated it, and my sentiment never changed. In fact, I used my old laptop mainly in clamshell mode with an external keyboard, so the laptop keyboard shouldn’t be an issue right? Typing on that thing felt like tapping directly on the Apple tables. It was so jarring and no getting away from it. Some people love it but it just wasn’t for me.
Completely dejected I built a hackintosh and never looked back.
2.5 years later and now in hindsight, I see how lucky I’ve been. I still want an MBP but a compromised (and unfortunately stunningly expensive to replace) keyboard is such a showstopper.
It crops up because of the numbers they sell not because it’s a design flaw? El oh el.
Ok then let me ask you this:
If the keyboard isn’t an issue and wasn’t so widespread and is nothing more than anecdotal people whining then why on the very next refresh after Apple introduced the new keyboard design did they fix something that, according to you, is nothing more than “anecdotal” and something that Apple’s own internal documents admit is an issue?
I await your reply.
Evidence to the contrary?
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Designs always improve. The fact they improve designs is standard procedure.
The design in question being a widespread problem that manifests itself into usability issues is an entirely different subject with no evidence.
Again, the proof is clear that this is a non-issue for most, just like most of the issues people cry about here. Connectivity with iPhone, bent iPads, etc...all just anecdotal stories and the normal issues when shipping 300M devices.
If ANY issue is big enough to matter on large scale, it WILL NEVER GO AWAY and the tsunami of complaints could not be stopped.
Imagine if the iPhone actually had real connectivity issues and a design flaw? You think it could be swept under the rug? This company sold $166B in iPhones in 2018 alone. An issue as serious as a connectivity design flaw would be front page news, daily until fixed.
Y’all are overreacting. If you have an issue, take it to Apple and make them fix it. They will. They take care of their customers. My iPad had a tiny white spot on the display and they just replaced it in 5 minutes.
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Of course designs improve over time but what’s the purpose of adding the membrane if not to fix an issue?
Are these issues anecdotal? Perhaps but it seems to me that Apple adding the membrane is admission that there is an issue with the design.
But I’m not an Apple engineer nor do I have access to hard number so I am speculating I suppose.
Oh...thank you so much Apple. I appreciate that overdue apology. But you're a little late. I've given away my $2800 MBP with your noisy, uncomfortable, flawed keyboard design for an HP ZBook with a very comfortable and quiet keyboard that costs $1000 less. Oh, and with upgradable ram, plenty of connections and extra m.2 slot. I won't be making that mistake again. Thanks though.
If you can't handle it, of course you shouldn't do it. But I was in my early 20's and I lived off of that energy. I don't regret any second of it. I have so many stories to tell now and it puts a fat smile on my face every time I think about it. Oh and that position at that startup helped me land an internship at Apple as a software engineer. Greatest decision I've ever made.
My priorities were correct. Maybe you should work on some passion projects from time to time. Work on something that makes you too excited to sleep on certain nights.
Last year, Apple introduced new MacBook Pro and MacBook Air models with a redesigned third-generation butterfly keyboard that was meant to address issues with sticking and non-responsive keys. However, as noted by The Wall Street Journal's Joanna Stern, some customers are continuing to experience these issues.
Third-generation butterfly keyboard on 2018 MacBook Pro via iFixit
In a statement, an Apple spokesperson acknowledged the issues and apologized:Apple added that affected customers should contact the company for support.
Unfortunately, while Apple initiated a service program offering free repairs of affected 2015-2017 MacBook and 2016-2017 MacBook Pro models with first- and second-generation butterfly keyboards, the latest 2018 MacBook Pro and 2018 MacBook Air models with third-generation butterfly keyboards do not qualify at this time.
Stern wrote her column without using the letters E or R as a clever way of illustrating the problem -- there are toggle switches to turn each letter back on. Humorously, there are also toggle switches to read the article with double E's or double T's, as repeating letters are one symptom of the sticky keys.
In an internal document obtained by MacRumors last year, Apple said the third-generation keyboard has a silicone membrane under the keycaps to "prevent debris from entering the butterfly mechanism." However, the membrane has only reduced the keyboard issues instead of eliminating them entirely.
Apple has not admitted this reasoning publicly, instead saying that the third-generation keyboard delivers a "quieter" typing experience.
Stern concludes with a plea to Apple to "stop prioritizing thinness over usability."
Article Link: Apple Apologizes Over 'Small Number' of Users Who Continue to Have Issues With Third-Generation MacBook Keyboards
Not small number
is a big problem 100% user of buyer
Apple has deeply in the @ss your product complaints. This company is first time in history synonymous of "boring product": https://www.notebookcheck.net/Opinion-Apple-is-becoming-synonymous-with-boring.414983.0.html
iPhone XR looks like smartphone from 2014 year compared with Samsung Galaxy S10e. New iPad Mini is a design joke and Tim Cook instead of cancel this product just release it in funny form. New VoD service advertised by ancient star Steven Spielberg (E.T. was popular when I was a kid). Do you remember some cool latest movie from Spielberg? Netflix co-operates with local international artists / directors and has strong position in Europe. Who wants to watch Fox in Europe??! Stupid PR answers to WSJ journalist instead of mass action to replace all faulty Macbooks topcase with keyboards. Stupid repair policy. Why Apple PR manager did not send a roll of this stupid not available Intersil power supply chip to Louis Rossmann with sentence: "Dude thanks for saving env!"??? All steps they do under Tim Cook's management lead to end where people switch to Windows 10 machines and I do not want use a word "hate" but Apple is now a company that just "s%$ks" and Tim Cook is doing nothing. If people want old typing experience time to do not ignore but listen. If people hate dongles and no USB C fast charger in iPhones it is time to change it. If people want iPhone 5 design it is time to give it to customers. If people complaint about iPad bending time to redesign product and makemit sexy and strong like in Galaxy Tab, Huawei or even some no name chinese companies. My Macbook Pro has hard landing on the floor ("This is Sparta!") and I am happy that this non reliable piece of electronics junk is not working now.
iPhone XR looks like smartphone from 2014 year compared with Samsung Galaxy S10e. New iPad Mini is a design joke and Tim Cook instead of cancel this product just release it in funny form. New VoD service advertised by ancient star Steven Spielberg (E.T. was popular when I was a kid). Do you remember some cool latest movie from Spielberg? Netflix co-operates with local international artists / directors and has strong position in Europe. Who wants to watch Fox in Europe??! Stupid PR answers to WSJ journalist instead of mass action to replace all faulty Macbooks topcase with keyboards. Stupid repair policy. Why Apple PR manager did not send a roll of this stupid not available Intersil power supply chip to Louis Rossmann with sentence: "Dude thanks for saving env!"??? All steps they do under Tim Cook's management lead to end where people switch to Windows 10 machines and I do not want use a word "hate" but Apple is now a company that just "s%$ks" and Tim Cook is doing nothing. If people want old typing experience time to do not ignore but listen. If people hate dongles and no USB C fast charger in iPhones it is time to change it. If people want iPhone 5 design it is time to give it to customers. If people complaint about iPad bending time to redesign product and makemit sexy and strong like in Galaxy Tab, Huawei or even some no name chinese companies. My Macbook Pro has hard landing on the floor ("This is Sparta!") and I am happy that this non reliable piece of electronics junk is not working now.
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I'd never buy a Mac with a butterfly keyboard, unless Apple designs one to be as trouble-free as the one in my 2017 Air.My opinion only but I think the latest generation of Apple laptops will have much lower resale value when their warranties run out
This is how Apple solve a problems. Now you do not need wear pants
because we want to present...our amazing invisible touch pants.Well I know I'm just one person so can only say my experience, but I have bought a new 15" MacBook Pro every year since 2016 hoping that my keyboard issues would be solved.
2016 - First one I received had a defective clicking keyboard out of the box. Returned that one, bought a 2017 model (Bought it around the refresh time)
2017 - had a working keyboard for nearly 3 months, then developed 3 sticky keys. (And no, I did not eat near my computer or do anything crazy around it, just dust from a bag I'm assuming). Was gone without it for a week as they replaced the top case. Went another 9 months, then started developing sticky keys again. Received news 2018 was out and issue may be fixed so sold it and bought that one.
2018 - Upped the ram to 32 GB for development large vm's. Keyboard developed 2 repeating keys after 4 months. At this point had switched to a different bag and carried it around even less hoping that I'd have better luck, but not quite. Apple had to replace the top case so bought another as a loner then returned it when fixed. 3 months later my spacebar is now repeating.
Funny enough, I use a Logitech bluetooth keyboard that has functioned for nearly 2 years that's carried around with it. So yes I believe there is a problem. Funny enough I rarely even use the built-in keyboard.
I strongly regret selling my 2014 MacBook Pro at this point but feel quite stuck. I enjoy aspects of the MacBook Pro but this feels completely like returning to an abusive lover.
I may have just gotten incredibly unlucky but also feel that Apple is somewhat to blame here. I honestly don't want a touchbar, just want a reliable keyboard.
Seriously. I haven't seen a train wreck that bad since the last Tesla product launch.
I would also be surprised to see a butterfly keyboard in the next generation.
Totally agree. I was comparing all three earlier and the first Magic Keyboard has the best keystroke feeling of all three.
I've bought the MacBook Pro 15" 2017 in June 2017. So far, 5 top-case replacements and one entire new Macbook Pro swap in between. The issues were either the sticky and unresponsive keys or faulty left/right speaker and dead pixels but that I can forgive. I'm selling mine before Applecare warranty expires and avoiding Macbooks until a complete redesign. XPS or Microsoft Surface Laptop 2 looks like an alternative.
I had an issue with every Mac laptop I owned:
- 2002 G3 iBook optical drive failed after 6 months;
- 2003 G3 iBook logic board failed after 1 year, became a lifetime replacement known issue for that model;
- 2005 12" PowerBook logic board failed after 18 months, got it covered out of warranty thanks to NZ consumer guarantees;
- 2008 15" MacBook Pro logic board failed after 1 year, became a lifetime replacement known issue for that model, and battery died very quickly and repeatedly, also became a known issue but they did not bother to replace because it wouldn't help anything.
Since then, three Dell Inspirons with no issues ever, Surface RT, Surface Pro 2, Surface Book 2, no issues ever. And no intention of going back; really haven't enjoyed OS X since Snow Leopard anyway, and now we have things like this! I've tried those keyboards in stores and family members' MacBooks, Airs, and Pros, over the last few years, and even when working properly they are just not good experiences.
I very much hope they can come out of this with a case redesign and quiet return to proper keyboards, for the benefit of all concerned! Then they just need to work on reasonable prices, decent software, and touchscreens, and they might pique interest again
The biggest issue I have with the keyboard is how LOUD typing on it is. When there’s a meeting at the office and some of those people type away, it gets really noisy