Apple Apologizes Over 'Small Number' of Users Who Continue to Have Issues With Third-Generation MacBook Keyboards

[raybo]

Apple has been intentionally making their products cheeper and harder to repair for a very long time. If you want to get the details about any Apple laptop issues check out Lewis Rossman on YouTube.

Louis!

 

[Lone Deranger]

The butterfly keyboard is just a stop-gap to an eventual full scale glass keyboard.

Why are you guys not getting it? With glass keyboard no dirt is too tiny to get in. What? You want feel? What feel? You did like the butterfly keyboard, didn't you?

Actually, word on the street has it that the keyboard will be removed entirely from the laptop's chassis. MBP's going forward will rely on external keyboards that will require another dongle.

 

[cool11]

Unbelievable the fact that Apple managed to make us deal with serious keyboard issues(!), for so many years(!), in a thousand dollars laptop!!!!
I wonder which will be the next hit.


Damn thinness.

 

[bluecoast]

It seems unimaginable that Apple will continue this fiasco for yet another year. This latest admission/apology from Apple is a prelude to offering the same 4 year warrantee for the 3rd generation keyboard on the 2018 models. Whenever Apple says a few customers are having a problem, that is code for "it's a **** show".

Stern is a reliable reviewer for the WSJ. As these types of bad reviews pile-up, Apple's reputation and liability are at greater risk. They should just bite the bullet and add more space to the case, even if it adds marginally to the thickness. Time to admit your mistake and move on.

No doubt a redesign of the MacBook series (pro and consumer) is in the works. No don’t they will have way better keyboards. And no doubt that they are using A class SoC which will require MacOS ARM and ARM apps, which you’d imagine will need the successor to Yosemite.

So likely we’re still stuck With this model until the fall of this year at the earliest - likely it’ll be spring 2020 (northern hemisphere).

 

[ROGmaster]

lets NOT go that far, macbooks are still the best laptops on the market and always work as they should. sure these keyboard problems are a pain but apple fixes them and i'd take a few slight fixable keyboard problems over another brand who's laptop breaks down within 6 months

"Best laptops on the market" is also something subjective so you shouldn't go that far either.

 

[recoil80]

Even if the percentage of users affected were "small", say less than 5%, it would be tens of thousands of Macs... this is unacceptable. My 2016 MBP is still good, but I guess I'm just lucky. It is not my daily driver, so I accepted the risk of send it in for repair for a few days when I bought it, but I'm still worried the keyboard will break eventually.
I do like the new keyboard, was skeptical at first but my typing speed is better on the MBP than on the iMac. Every time I go to the iMac after using my MBP the keyboard feels mushy.
I'd love something in the middle, butterfly is great but maybe a little more vertical space would help, and of course it ought to be reliable.

 

[antonis]

I hope the next trend is function over form. Make everything durable, serviceable usable with big batteries.

Sure, but they won't be able to stick an apple logo on it. Apple would sue them.

 

[neonart]

The best way to deal with this is VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET, and LET THEM PAY.

1) Go to the Apple Store, tell them you’re thinking of buying a MB, MBA, or MBP but that you’ve heard of the keyboard isssues. Let them deny it, and walk out letting them know you need to check other brands. If enough people do this, (and some actually purchase other brands) it will make it up to the bean counters.

2) If you already own one of these marvels of engineering and the keys even slightly act up, TAKE IT IN. Demand a repair. If Apple gets thousands and thousands of Laptops to repair for free, they will get the memo. (My 16MBP was fixed Nov ‘18) Its a very expensive repair. The bean counters will also notice.

Only if Apple starts feeling the pinch of lost revenue, lost sales, & lost market confidence will they realize they’ve made a big mistake. Just like the error with the Mac Pro design, they will have to recognize they engineered a error in an attempt to show off their engineering.

 

[torana355]

Can't they just use the mechanism from the Magic Keyboard? Seems to have a nice balance of travel, stability, key "crispness" for lack of a better word, and reliability.

I agree the magic keyboard is the sweetspot. I love typing on it and I use it for 50 to 60 hours a week at work and no reliability issues.
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Y’all overreact so hard to this. Apple knows it’s not a big deal, so they are giving you an apology.

They’ll fix it if it’s damaged, but it just isn’t a huge issue.

If it was not a big deal there would be no apology and there would not be multiple threads on the issue. This press release is clearly damage control 101 Apple know they have messed up here.

 

[Don1985]

Loving my 2.8Ghz 2015 MacBook Pro 15.4”. Keyboard works great, 1TB SSD is upgradable. I’ve got MagSafe, Ports, an SDRAM card slot.

Highly recommended.

I bought a second hand “old shape” MBP 13” at the beginning of 2017 and I couldn’t be happier with it.

Any time I’ve ever tempted to upgrade, these articles remind me to run my current laptop into the ground. Less hassle and saving a fortune, thanks Apple for your poorly designed laptop without the most useful ports, you’re saving me a fortune!

 

[advrider]

There are a lot of people coming by free money who simply dont care and thats why old users like me are totally left in the dust.

I am unable to upgrade my 2013 retina mbp because i hate the news ones.
they also do not work with with my 27 inch cinema.
also - i own zero usb c devices
so basically i have to carry converters for everything, including for an iphone cable

my wife has a 12 inch macbook first gen.
i refuse to use it cuz the keyboard is horrible.
she is only using it cuz she wants the lightest mac posible and doesnt really type alot

she is unable to upgrade her iphone cuz we refuse to spend so much money on the latest gen phones.
we got a 7plus with 128gig for a reasonble price when it came out - it was top of the line when it came out
the top of the line phones now r double the price.
its not about affordability, its about worth.
why the hell do we need a 1.5k phone.
which can fall n break or be stolen (like our previous phone was)...
no use of the phone simply jusitifies this price

she is also not upgrading her ipad mini 2.. since even the last one is exctly the same.
sure its faster and can use a pen..
what else... /????

wiuth my own money i would never buy an iphone.. i would go for an android

for macbook i need mac os..
but i am waiting for something to fix the new linup so its more usable.
otherwise i have no choice but to switch...
or use a hackintosh of some sort..

the situation is just absurd.

 

[Pangalactic]

The best way to deal with this is VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET, and LET THEM PAY.

Only if Apple starts feeling the pinch of lost revenue, lost sales, & lost market confidence will they realize they’ve made a big mistake. Just like the error with the Mac Pro design, they will have to recognize they engineered a error in an attempt to show off their engineering.

I honestly think that - unfortunately - that won't come from the declining MBP sales. Apple is the iPhone company (and partially iTunes), the rest doesn't really matter for them. Like the Mac Pro, which hasn't been redesigned for 5(!!!) years. Does it result in lower profits? Sure! Does it push Apple to change anything? Not really.

 

[jdag]

I sold my 2013 MBP to get the 2017 model 3 months ago. Huge mistake for so many reasons (Magsafe, KB, ports, the normal rants). Forget all of that for a moment, I made the "upgrade", so be it.

But I began noticing those "dead" keys a couple of weeks ago. Called Apple 2 days ago, and they are sending a box so I can send in the laptop. In the meantime, I had a window of time yesterday and thought I'd run out to the Apple Store to see if there was another/quicker repair option.

All of that to say I was told by the Apple "Genius" that "Apple is replacing for free, this is not affecting you at all."

WHAT???

1) I travel nearly every week (this week being the 1st exception in 2-1/2 months). I cannot go without a laptop when I travel (I teach a class, need to present from laptop). Therefore, I will need to buy a new laptop just to get me through while mine is being repaired. Even if I were to borrow one, I still will need to spend time setting it up. Conclusion: this is affecting me.

2) I spent about an hour on the phone with Apple Support. Conclusion: this is affecting me.

3) While it was my choice, and I did not expect a resolution, I drove to the Apple Store, 40 min each way, and was there for about 30 min (actually, surprisingly short amount of time, I expected an hour+). So about 2 hours wasted. Conclusion: this is affecting me.

Of all of my complaints about my KB issue, that Apple employee's comment bothers me the most.

 

[advrider]

yeah i have zero hope.
power users like me have zero votes

the votes lie with casual users who dont really care in the end,
upgrade every year and couldnt care less as long as the product is cool..

anybody with functional ears cant accept things like the wireless beats

 

[ionutc]

Maybe some of the problems arise because of manufacturing defects? As it is a very sensitive keyboard the tolerances must be very small right? I mean issues just after a week of use? or a month? or even 3 months? you can't blame the user for that.

I've noticed i have the weird sound on my m key when the laptop gets very hot, but i've noticed that changes when you unplug the laptop. IMO the spring issues under the dome and the butterfly mechanism are two very different problems. If you ever pop keys out you cand see how fragile everything is and it's a shame because i love everything elese about the laptop.

 

[UnalignedByte]

This whole generation of laptops seems to be a mistake on the part of Apple. There are so many issues that should be considered solved problems by now. To think that in 2019 Apple would have an issue with a keyboard that they're unable to fix for three years. A keyboard! I'm still using a 2014 MacBook Pro, and even though I was considering buying a new one for the sake of better components, I'm still incredibly offput by the useless and distracting (in my opinion) touchbar and the broken keyboard (even if it worked correctly, I never liked the way it felt). I'm alright with having just USB-C, but can we get a decent GPU in a 13" MacBook Pro? Other laptop makers seem to be capable of it, so it's not impossible.

 

[maflynn]

So Apple fans get an apology but that's all. Clearly the keyboard is flawed and while the silicon covering may have helped, it certainly didn't resolve the problem. Also who knows how the silicon will wear with usage. For 3,000 dollars (for a 15" MBP), I'd rather not get an apology but rather a computer that didn't have a flawed keyboard.

 

[panjandrum]

You know, the sad thing is that we didn't even need to wait until the failures started to know that this is a terrible keyboard. Why? Because IT IS A TERRIBLE KEYBOARD (full stop). Everyone outside the most diehard Apple fanpersons (fanpeeps? fanfolk?) knew that it was awful simply because it is awful to use. Even if it proved reliable it was already a keyboard that should never have been put in an Apple product. Add in the reliability factors and I basically agree with an article I read yesterday on slashdot about this keyboard being "the worst product Apple has ever made." There have been a few other awful things out of Apple, but this one sure is right at the top of the awful list.

 

[Ubuntu]

They should just put the Magic Keyboard in it. Nice to type on I find, without the reliability issue of the butterfly keyboard.

 

[phillytim]

Apple really has made things much harder than they should be.

Just the fact that a techie like me is hanging on to my Early-2011 MacBook Pro for dear life is a tribute to how wonderful Apple was in the past, and how horrendously irrelevant Apple has become.

If my MBPro died today, I'd be buying a real laptop (probably a Lenovo ThinkPad) rather than one of Apple's overpriced disposable appliance junk.

 

[tubular]

About a year and a half ago, when Apple had discontinued all of its pre-2016 models except the 15" MacBook Pro, I made the (expensive, by my standards) decision to future-proof myself by buying that one, because it was pretty clear that something had gone fundamentally wrong in 2016 with their laptop design decisions, there was no telling when Apple would have things straightened out, and it seemed like that 2015-era design could be the last sane laptop Apple would make for the foreseeable future.

So now it's 2019. Not sane yet.

 

[Dave245]

In most cases, waiting for Apple to publicly comment on a failure usually is years later. You're right, if they are commenting now, the numbers must look very bad.

Which is why I’m going to hold off on getting the new MacBook Air. I was going to buy one in a couple of weeks, but with this issue now being officially acknowledged by Apple i will be holding off.

 

[keyboardfrustrated]

they really tried to downplay the issue by saying "small number". most people who have the keyboard seem to have issues. i have a macbook air 2018 and the "e" key clicks itself twice sometimes..

they dont wanna admit that the buttlerfly keyboard is sort of flawed

edit: read the article and she mentions my "sticky e" problem wow

it’s called investor relations.

 

[Baymowe335]

Of course designs improve over time but what’s the purpose of adding the membrane if not to fix an issue?

Are these issues anecdotal? Perhaps but it seems to me that Apple adding the membrane is admission that there is an issue with the design.

But I’m not an Apple engineer nor do I have access to hard number so I am speculating I suppose.

Design improvement. Again, just because a design is improved doesn’t mean the previous design creates usability issues for the masses.
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I agree the magic keyboard is the sweetspot. I love typing on it and I use it for 50 to 60 hours a week at work and no reliability issues.
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If it was not a big deal there would be no apology and there would not be multiple threads on the issue. This press release is clearly damage control 101 Apple know they have messed up here.

You’re kidding, right? How many people do you think actually saw the apology? This is just Apple patting your head.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I inherited a first generation 'touch bar' Macbook, and recently started experiencing the space bar, and the 'z' key not working. Some will rip what I am about to say, but I feel Apple has lost their focus. They used to make 'insanely great products for the rest of us'. The iPod. Insanely capable, and so simple. Like it fell from heaven. The iPhone. Insanely great UI, not to rely on a damned stylus. The MagSafe power connection. So incredible, so NEEDED! So elegant, so simple. I broke the power connection on a PeeCee laptop by using it in bed.

So what do we have left? Bendgate, Keyboardgate, normally great products, over designed for thinness, under designed for actual people to actually use them! Since the dawn of time (keyboards) the keyboard has been a repository for all kinds of detritus. I remember swapping a notebook keyboard for an older gentleman that had so much dead skin flakes inside of it, keys were jammed. (YUCK!!!) I remember someone sitting on their notebook, and it not bending. They didn't go all weight, to their credit, but it did survive, really rather well. Cell phones that granted were built like tanks, but you could really (accidentally) abuse them, and they weren't bent to the point of internal self destruction.

And all Apple would have had to do is place some steel rods up the sides of the iPhone substructure, but such a thing would weigh too much, like a nervous pre-teen, consumed by their body image. And the 'butterfly keyboard'. It's 'thin', sure, but it's a damned DIVA in a place on a notebook where there isn't room for divas. They keyboard is THE way people interact with their notebooks. If that throws a tantrum, the notebook is useless.

Apple really needs to stop kidding itself that it's 'Innovative' to design products so fragile. They need to stop kidding themselves that people want HUGE cellphones that weigh almost nothing, and bend so easily. The need to STOP the self delusion, and get back to making USABLE products that are safe to use.

Stop concentrating on *flash* and *glamour* and focus on Real People, and Real Products that will survive farther than the warranty period, and DAMMIT!!! Allow people stuck with that ridiculous first generation 'butterfly keyboard' the chance to get the new and upgraded 'Moth Keyboard' designed for the real world and not to WOW Jonny Ive and his gaunt emaciated and fragile idea of what is a great product. Get back to basics. Make great products again, products that WORK, products for the REAL WORLD. Not some anorexic diva crap that comes out of the box bent! /rant

(I've found that giving the space bar a good thunk revives it. I hope that keeps working. Imagineaworldwithoutspacebars... And'smallnumber'isprobablyalotbiggerthantheywanttoadmit.