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I honestly think that - unfortunately - that won't come from the declining MBP sales. Apple is the iPhone company (and partially iTunes), the rest doesn't really matter for them. Like the Mac Pro, which hasn't been redesigned for 5(!!!) years. Does it result in lower profits? Sure! Does it push Apple to change anything? Not really.

I have to agree. Also, now with "services" becoming more important with the recent announcements, hardware like the Mac will likely become more and more a product they don't care about until they can get rid of it like they did with printers, displays, airports, iPods, certain excellent software(like Aperture), etc.

When Apple die-hards like myself start looking at options, you realize it's not the company that Steve had in mind. It's now just a profit machine. Whatever makes the most profit, thats the direction they go. So much for "Think Different" ...
 
They should wedge the shape a little taller at the back and put in the Magic Keyboard from the iMacs into it. Almost as thin and solves the issues.
 
I have questions related to KB replacement on a 2017 MBP that I am about to send for repair.

Is there any point?
Is the replacement actually a modified version of what's already in a 2017?
Is the the same as the 2018? (Which is also problematic.)

My point is that I am wondering if it is even worth bothering (and not having my computer for 10+ days). I have cans of compressed air, which may be the only needed "fix".
 
Design improvement. Again, just because a design is improved doesn’t mean the previous design creates usability issues for the masses.
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You’re kidding, right? How many people do you think actually saw the apology? This is just Apple patting your head.
No I'm not kidding, The butterfly keyboards are a liability and Apple is in Damage control as the bad press hurts sales in the long run. This is coming from someone who loves Mac computers, I own multiple machines and owned the 2016 MBP which went back to Apple as soon as it developed the issue.
 
I hope the next trend is function over form. Make everything durable, serviceable usable with big batteries.

I don’t know where Apple is trending, but unless they redesign their notebook line, my next trend is Lenovo. Just waiting for the Ice Lake update later this year.


"Small number."

**** you, Apple.

Just like the issues with the iPhone 6 Plus, right?

Heat, heat, heat. The problem is called heat.

Just buy two identical MBP. Use one for just some basic operations like working with Office apps and use the other for rendering, video editing (preferably in clamshell mode) and you will see which keyboard will last longer.

Bad, baaad design.

So true! I wish I could upvote / like your post more than once.

I believe Apple did test for keystroke repetition for their butterfly design but I doubt they (adequately) tested it with various levels of heat in a confined structure. The key supports are just too thin to maintain their form (and thus function) when exposed to the constant level of heat given off by a Mac which is performing near or at the TDP for extended periods of time. This explains at least in part why some but not all users have been experiencing keyboard issues.
 
Stop concentrating on *flash* and *glamour* and focus on Real People, and Real Products that will survive farther than the warranty period, and DAMMIT!!! Allow people stuck with that ridiculous first generation 'butterfly keyboard' the chance to get the new and upgraded 'Moth Keyboard' designed for the real world and not to WOW Jonny Ive and his gaunt emaciated and fragile idea of what is a great product. Get back to basics. Make great products again, products that WORK, products for the REAL WORLD. Not some anorexic diva crap that comes out of the box bent! /rant
Oh, I think Apple couldn't care less about designing products that could survive the warranty period. Those days are OVER - especially lately with a significant drop in iPhone sale units. Expect to see Apple products get more fragile, to the point that they only could survive their warranty. It IS all about flash & glamour now; have you visited an Apple "Plaza" yet? lol
 
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No I'm not kidding, The butterfly keyboards are a liability and Apple is in Damage control as the bad press hurts sales in the long run. This is coming from someone who loves Mac computers, I own multiple machines and owned the 2016 MBP which went back to Apple as soon as it developed the issue.
Mac just had record sales and again, the average person pays zero attention to press release apologies from corporations.

This is the corporate equivalent of nothing.
 
The numbers must not be so small after all for Apple to acknowledge the issue publicly.

If the numbers were large, Apple wouldn't be selling the laptop anymore (since they are doing free top-case replacements if the keyboard fails under warranty, a huge cost).

The "message" that the keyboards fail is not small though - it is likely affecting sales now in some capacity.
 
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They should wedge the shape a little taller at the back and put in the Magic Keyboard from the iMacs into it. Almost as thin and solves the issues.


I hate the Magic Keyboard. The keys are rubbery and mushy and the typing experience is the same...
Never liked the rubber keyed Apple keyboards. The old ones, before that, were great.
 
OK. Apology accepted, now are you going to add 2018 models to the list of eligible devices for keyboard replacements?
My 15" 2018 MBP warranty is going to expire in July, so I need to know if it's going to be added, or should I buy Apple Care, it makes a lot of difference as I won't buy Apple Care if it's going to be eventually added to the recall.
 
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OK. Apology accepted, now are you going to add 2018 models to the list of eligible devices for keyboard replacements?
My 15" 2018 MBP warranty is going to expire in July, so I need to know if it's going to be added, or should I buy Apple Care, it makes a lot of difference as I won't buy Apple Care if it's going to be eventually added to the recall.

If this is a big issue Apple should add the third gen to the service programme. I think they should do this while they work on a redesign. Ming Chi Kuo reported that Apple are going to release a new 16" Macbook Pro with an all new design. After reading about the keyboard issue i think Apple are bringing the redesign forward for that reason.
 
It's really breath taking the way y'all STILL BUY the laptop & STILL push the blame. Like seriously - why did you buy a 2018 if you KNEW 2016 and 2017? Ok - fine - so did I. But there is a follow-up question. You didn't want it to happen to poor YOU, so why didn't you buy a silicon protective cover for the keyboard? There is no way in hell dust can make it to the E key when a cover is over all surrounding keys. Take personal responsibility instead of trolling. YES apple should pay, but it is STILL Steve Job's way or the highway. You have non-music MP3's on your mac? Well, Steve doesn't approve of that lifestyle, and that's why 15 years later we still suffer the mental illness of random play on iTunes disgustingly iterating through Spanish language dialog mp3s as if they were music. This is the "cost" you pay in exchange for an OS that won't intentionally destroy user data like Windows - rebooting and making it impossible to disable rebooting - corrupting my data in running virtual machines and even damaging hardware (I was triple wiping a harddrive to dispose of, and after the forced reboot in the middle of the night the drive can't be accessed any more - so now I have to find a machine shop with a drill)
 
It's really breath taking the way y'all STILL BUY the laptop & STILL push the blame. Like seriously - why did you buy a 2018 if you KNEW 2016 and 2017? Ok - fine - so did I. But there is a follow-up question. You didn't want it to happen to poor YOU, so why didn't you buy a silicon protective cover for the keyboard? There is no way in hell dust can make it to the E key when a cover is over all surrounding keys. Take personal responsibility instead of trolling. YES apple should pay, but it is STILL Steve Job's way or the highway. You have non-music MP3's on your mac? Well, Steve doesn't approve of that lifestyle, and that's why 15 years later we still suffer the mental illness of random play on iTunes disgustingly iterating through Spanish language dialog mp3s as if they were music. This is the "cost" you pay in exchange for an OS that won't intentionally destroy user data like Windows - rebooting and making it impossible to disable rebooting - corrupting my data in running virtual machines and even damaging hardware (I was triple wiping a harddrive to dispose of, and after the forced reboot in the middle of the night the drive can't be accessed any more - so now I have to find a machine shop with a drill)

A 'keyboard condom'? Or are we holding it the wrong way? I hate those things... Maybe going without a notebook is the answer. Back to the stone age...
 
A 'keyboard condom'? Or are we holding it the wrong way? I hate those things... Maybe going without a notebook is the answer. Back to the stone age...

I understand why people don’t like using keyboard covers. I have one on my 2014 MBA because I take it to the coffee shop frequently, but I get that they detract from the typing experience.

My question is: would a keyboard cover solve the problem? Some folks believe issues are caused by heat not just dust. It is possible that a keyboard cover would make heat problems worse.
 
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What I find really disturbing is the fact that even the new MBA still has this problem. Of course it's logical: almost the identical keyboard as the one in MBP = the same problems.

But how arrogant you have to be to create a newly designed machine after 3 years of keyboard problems and put the same butterfly mechanism inside?

For me that's the sign what Apple really thinks about its customers!
 
Agreed. I've had this MacAir for about 2 weeks now and the issues I am having are not sticking keys or multiple letters being typed. Instead, it is more like "phantom" letters being inserted or letters being capitalized when they shouldn't. This MacAir replaces a 2011 model that I loved. I thype a lot and am an excellent and speedy thypist; so it is frsutreatingf when I look at my work and have to go back and correctr all the errors. GThis post is actually not b ad at all compared to some. it's like I have fat fingers ior something, as most of the errors include the iunsertuiion if ketters adjacent to the intended letter. But I never had such an issue with my old MacAir. going into Apple tomorroiw to see if this can be fixed. If not, this one is going back! (errors mighklighted)
 
Don't know when my luck will run its course with the 2018 MBP I purchased a couple of months back. No issues with the keyboard yet but looks like it will be inevitable in the long run. :(

Previous to this I had a 2011 MBP that I used for 7 years without any issues at all.
 
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Don't worry folks... we're only at GateCon 9

In just a few days we've gone from 5 to 9. At this pace Apple will announce a program to address the problem by May. You read it here first. :)

Those who are affected by the issue, return the device for a refund if you are within the return window. If you take it in for "repair", after confirming that it works, sell it and get something else.


Here's the typical cycle for problems reported on Apple products:
1. A few members post reports of the problem, report it to Apple
2. No response from Apple
3. Increased number of people report the issue
4. No response from Apple
5. Apple apologists dismiss the reports as very rare, the result of trolling, or exaggeration by drama queens
6. Even more reports of the problem
7. No response from Apple
8. News of the problem hits blogs
9. Apple apologists dismiss the blogs as simply engaging in clickbait
10. No response from Apple
11. Those affected by the issue threaten a class-action lawsuit
12. Apple apologists decry the "sue happy" nature of American consumers
13. Apple acknowledges the legitimacy of the problem
14. Apple apologists are silent
15. Apple release an update to correct the problem
or
15. They set up a "program" to address the problem.
16. Apple gains some positive publicity
17. Apple apologists applaud Apple for doing the "right thing". (for an issue that they said from day-1 was not actually an issue)
18. First hand experience with the “program” reveals very strict guidelines and restrictions that greatly reduce the number of affected customers that can participate in the program.
 
Me, too! Tbhis was a birthday present. I had no issues with my old MacAir of same vintage. Was goning to gift that on to my daughterm but now in a quandary as to whether this issues will every be "fixed" on this new one; and whether I should just return iut while I can. Does anyone else have an issue of phantom letters appearing?
 
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Just switch back to the 2015 design already and call it a day. Yes, big companies can mess up and come out with terrible designs, but it takes a bigger company to admit they messed up and go back to a design that is tried and true. If they came out with a 2015 design with better battery life, their sales would be crazy. Literally all they have to do to have an amazing fiscal quarter.

By the way, the keyboard isn’t the only flaw in the design (Display cable issues) among a couple of others. All to shave some thickness off an already lightweight and thin design... smdh...
Yep. I’m STILL on a 2010 MacBook Pro 13 for the ports, keyboard and upgradability - have added RAM and SSD. I have never had a hint of troubles with the keyboard of course. I would instantly buy a 2019 Macboook Pro - INSTANTLY - with current processors in the exact same case they used in 2010, with a couple added USB-C ports AND with MagSafe. I feel rude saying it, but someone at Apple, don’t know who, needs to find new work or retire.
 
What a slap in the face. She acknowledges the problem, yet they haven’t added the 2018 keyboard to the out of warranty repair program. Embarrassing that they can’t get a keyboard right on their third try in a number of years with their billions of dollars. Small number or users my ass.
 
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I have to agree. Also, now with "services" becoming more important with the recent announcements, hardware like the Mac will likely become more and more a product they don't care about until they can get rid of it like they did with printers, displays, airports, iPods, certain excellent software(like Aperture), etc.

When Apple die-hards like myself start looking at options, you realize it's not the company that Steve had in mind. It's now just a profit machine. Whatever makes the most profit, thats the direction they go. So much for "Think Different" ...

Steve have told, that any company that focuses on what the shareholders want, is prone to fail.
Profitability should exist, but if you let them take the critical decisions about the products, then the total failure of the company is not so far away...
History is repeated again and again, for those that do not wish to learn it....
It is a pity, as Steve has predicted and outlined this problem so well.
 
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Luckily the keyboard had more advantages than disadvantages
Advantages:
- made it possible to make the macbook 0,0001mm thinner
- made it possible to make it 10 gram lighter

Disadvantages:
- shallow keys
- zero travel
- zero feedback
- keys stuck
- dust issues
- hard to replace the keyboard
- ..

Oh wait...
 
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