Apple Asks All U.S. Employees to Share Vaccination Status, Still No Mandate

[2010mini]

Cigarette smoking is responsible for more than 480,000 deaths per year in the United States, including more than 41,000 deaths resulting from secondhand smoke exposure.
Covid, has killed 658,103 in the united states since the start.
Those numbers are pretty dang close. In fact, when you figure that we are almost 2 years in on covid, smoking is actually WORST!

Smoking is a voluntary act. Getting covid is not.

We already penalize smokers. They pay higher insurance rates. They are to allowed to smoke in almost every indoor public areas and some outdoor areas as well. We as a society basically shunned smokers.

So the comparison to a virus is nonsense.

 

[code-m]

Do you know how many millions of people got vaccinated in US? Vaccine is 95% effective and 5% of 160 millions is still a lot of people with breakthrough cases. You’re using this 5% breakthrough cases as an excuse for vaccine being not effective. How do you know when vaccine works and people don’t get sick? You can’t track when vaccine works, you can track if it doesn’t work. Think about it.

Look up Relative Risk Reduction versus Absolute Risk Reduction to get a better understanding as to why 95% does not mean what you think it means.

 

[fourthtunz]

“Hospitals are full”

You do resize constantly repeating a lie does not make it truth, right.

You also are aware that influenza, RSV, etc virus’ have similar symptoms as COVID, what is with the obsession it’s like no other respiratory virus’ ever exist even today all of them got scared when SARS-CoV-2 showed up on the hospital block scene.

My hospital is not being overwhelmed with those things. It and many others however are being
overwhelmed with unvaccinated covid cases.

 

[dojoman]

You really seem to be a bit thrown by the concept of something being very effective, but not 100% @dfstock:


Hello from Britain, where while our case numbers are up, the ratio of cases to deaths has changed completely since our vaccine rollout kicked off. Considering that the vast majority those who are eligible here are vaccinated (88.5%), and as the vaccines are incredibly effective but not perfect, it is entirely to be expected that over time, we'll end up with the majority of hospital admissions and deaths from COVID being from vaccinated people.

Just as the fact that the overwhelming majority of people who die in car accidents were wearing a seatbelt, doesn't mean that seatbelts don't work incredibly well, just that the overwhelming majority of people wear them, and they aren't able to prevent every death.

Here's how our second and third waves worked out, before the vaccines and after them:

View attachment 1826191

Yes, you should still get vaccinated even if you had COVID before, because the immunity you have isn't binary, we know that getting vaccinated improves it, and there's no real downside to doing so. It's all just more training for your immune system.

Being vaccinated significantly reduces your risk of being infected, which also reduces your odds of infecting others, it also massively reduces your risk of getting seriously ill, and gets quite close to entirely eliminating your risk of dying of COVID. It isn't perfect, but neither are seatbelts in cars, they still save a lot of people's lives anyway and there's really no downside to wearing one, just as there isn't when it comes to getting vaccinated.

Also to be clear "poke immunity" and "natural immunity" aren't like separate things our immune system files away in different places. Our immune system really has no concept of what a vaccine is, it just recognises things it thinks could hurt us and creates antibodies and t/b cells in response. If you've previously had COVID, getting vaccinated will give you even more protection, and it's not like our immune systems have some kind of opportunity cost thing going on where your protection against other things goes down if you have more protection against COVID, or that the protective cells created in response to prior infection are replaced by a whole different kind via the vaccines.


On this basis, the fact that some people still die in car accidents even though they wear seatbelts, would mean that seatbelts are not effective. Please try to understand that most things, especially infectious diseases, aren't a binary.

You're lying I don't believe you. Fake news!! How do you know the graph is correct huh? How can we tell those people didn't die from flu? /s

 

[Zdigital2015]

It did for me.

Prove why I should ignore my doctor.

They keep telling us to trust the science, but it seems like that only means “vaccine science”, not monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin/Zinc/vitamin D therapeutics and natural immunity. Never seen so many people turn into such obedient lemmings in all my life. Makes me worry for humanity.

 

[iGobbleoff]

I've never had the flu vaccine, does that mean I'm not allowed to partake in society then?

 

[hop]

“Hospitals are full”

You do resize constantly repeating a lie does not make it truth, right.

Do you realise this man is actually dead because of that, and it isn't a lie, right?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1431264120989523971

 

[hop]

They keep telling us to trust the science, but it seems like that only means “vaccine science”, not monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin/Zinc/vitamin D therapeutics and natural immunity. Never seen so many people turn into such obedient lemmings in all my life. Makes me worry for humanity.

No, it means "what the overwhelming scientific evidence shows is most effective". Unfortunately as much as I wish all of those things were super great at treating COVID, most of them aren't, especially not zinc/vitamin D/ivermectin, having natural immunity first requires you to actually get COVID and risk it, including long term impacts like the cognitive impacts we know many people have after it. Monoclonal antibodies seem to help, but what we unambiguously know is much better is already having antibodies and t/b cells via vaccination. It's cliched to say that prevention is better than cure, but it is.

 

[Feyl]

that's right, they wore masks because it was the latest fashion item ...

View attachment 1826187

What's that having in common with viruses? They wore masks because all they knew was bacterial infection. The first image of a virus wasn't even made until 1931 and so many people died not only because the medicine and equipment was not on todays level. Virus is a much smaller particle and a regular mask is basically useless against it. Do you seriously want to compare situation and medicine practices from a hundred years ago with this time?

Also, how can you explain countries without lockdowns and mask mandates, like Sweden or Norway? Why does Israel considering another lockdown because the cases are getting high and most hospitalized people are fully vaccinated? If you want numbers, I checked last month and they had 450 hospitalizations where 360 were fully vaccinated.

How efficient exactly is the vaccine? How exactly can you measure it if most people already got Covid and gained natural immunity? Do we need just the 3rd booster shot or do we need 7? Pfizer says that the booster shot makes the vaccine 10 times more efficient. Do you seriously believe that after all that they lied about or don't even know how good their product is? I remember a time when they said the vaccine has 94% efficiency and is very effective against mutations including Delta.

PS: Based on numbers and estimates at least 6 milion people out of 10 had Covid in my country and now we're living normal life since like March when we didn't wait for the government and opened up the country ourselves. I myself wear mask only in malls and public transport like most people here and we're fine. We have on average 200 cases daily, almost zero deaths and only almost half of the country is fully vaccinated and that's probably the end because nobody else wants it. It's sad that most people took it because they wanted to travel easier but not for their health.

 

[techwhiz]

"Giuliani-Barr Syndrome", is another serious complication causing people to refuse getting vaccinated.

Not in the US. That was a very rare side effect of Covid-19 vaccine Janseen. EU

 

[techwhiz]

Wrong.

The more people that get infected the more chance the virus or any virus has to mutate. Delta is a direct result of not having people vaccinated sooner and in mass numbers.

 

[dfstock]

You really seem to be a bit thrown by the concept of something being very effective, but not 100% @dfstock:


Hello from Britain, where while our case numbers are up, the ratio of cases to deaths has changed completely since our vaccine rollout kicked off. Considering that the vast majority those who are eligible here are vaccinated (88.5%), and as the vaccines are incredibly effective but not perfect, it is entirely to be expected that over time, we'll end up with the majority of hospital admissions and deaths from COVID being from vaccinated people.

Just as the fact that the overwhelming majority of people who die in car accidents were wearing a seatbelt, doesn't mean that seatbelts don't work incredibly well, just that the overwhelming majority of people wear them, and they aren't able to prevent every death.

Here's how our second and third waves worked out, before the vaccines and after them:

View attachment 1826191

Yes, you should still get vaccinated even if you had COVID before, because the immunity you have isn't binary, we know that getting vaccinated improves it, and there's no real downside to doing so. It's all just more training for your immune system.

Being vaccinated significantly reduces your risk of being infected, which also reduces your odds of infecting others, it also massively reduces your risk of getting seriously ill, and gets quite close to entirely eliminating your risk of dying of COVID. It isn't perfect, but neither are seatbelts in cars, they still save a lot of people's lives anyway and there's really no downside to wearing one, just as there isn't when it comes to getting vaccinated.

Also to be clear "poke immunity" and "natural immunity" aren't like separate things our immune system files away in different places. Our immune system really has no concept of what a vaccine is, it just recognises things it thinks could hurt us and creates antibodies and t/b cells in response. If you've previously had COVID, getting vaccinated will give you even more protection, and it's not like our immune systems have some kind of opportunity cost thing going on where your protection against other things goes down if you have more protection against COVID, or that the protective cells created in response to prior infection are replaced by a whole different kind via the vaccines.


On this basis, the fact that some people still die in car accidents even though they wear seatbelts, would mean that seatbelts are not effective. Please try to understand that most things, especially infectious diseases, aren't a binary.

I submitted the post as humor, at least for people who choose not to vaccinate, but I appreciate your analysis and fact checking. I think most people who choose not vaccinate know or and don't argue there are real benefits to getting vaccinated. I think what some people don't understand or choose to acknowledge is that people should be able to choose what they put into their bodies and are ok with the additional risk of severe illness or death, especially when the CDC have changed the their guidance & statistics so frequently over the course of almost 2 years.

 

[Braderunner]

No its not. The thread I was responding to had a very specific aim....its heartless to deny people medical care because they brought it on themselves. That is it. Thats all I addressed. That moral problem is indepednet of if its tranmissable. Proposing to exclude people who get diseases they shouldn’t is a weird form of inhuman cruelty.

As I said in this format it hard to follow threads so you are the third person trying to explain to me that other disorders are not transmissible. I get it, but its doesnt address the moral issue. We take care of people who go on a shooting spree and get shot and end up at the hospital. Compassion precedes justice in this context.

Oh, I'm following. They aren't just bringing it on themselves. They are bringing it on other people. This is a pandemic. This is not the same as someone who isn't managing their diabetes. This is not about oneself. They aren't just affecting their own health and life. They are overwhelming hospitals. All for the sake of "fighting the liberal agenda". Enough is enough. Since they want to be so selfish, let them deal with it on their own. It's what they want. Let them have their freedom...to die. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ajfahey]

None of the vaccines released to date prevent people from getting infecited and spreading the CV. The vaccinated and masked are both catching and transmitting the virus. The vaccines protect the vaccinated from serious illness or death. get a vaccine or not but don’t think that the vaccinated are not getting infected, are not spreading the virus or that they are somehow preventing viral mutation because they happen to be vaccinated.

 

[Feyl]

Here's how our second and third waves worked out, before the vaccines and after them

Have you considered even a little bit the fact that lots of people got Covid and they have natural immunity now and so that could make the numbers better? This graph doesn't really say anything other than less people got it and died from it now. Assuming it's because of the vaccine is really brave.

 

[Mansu944]

Everyone you come into contact with.

Denying reality does not change reality. The universe is what it is. It doesn’t care about your feelings.

But if you get the vaccine you can still spread it right?

 

[Mansu944]

No, peak insanity is you thinking you can ignore the laws of physics and biology because you find them inconvenient.

But if you are vaccinated you can still spread it???

 

[techwhiz]

I'm a person with a doctor who gave me a medical opinion that a vaccine is unnecessary in my case because of having COVID in February and thus has natural immunity.

Or did you not read the thread before wishing death on people?

But the opinion of the medical community has changed and on the John Hopkins website says that even people that have had Covid should be vaccinated They go on to state that they don't know how long "natural immunity" lasts.

On their web page.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

You really seem to be a bit thrown by the concept of something being very effective, but not 100% @dfstock:


Hello from Britain, where while our case numbers are up, the ratio of cases to deaths has changed completely since our vaccine rollout kicked off. Considering that the vast majority those who are eligible here are vaccinated (88.5%), and as the vaccines are incredibly effective but not perfect, it is entirely to be expected that over time, we'll end up with the majority of hospital admissions and deaths from COVID being from vaccinated people.

Just as the fact that the overwhelming majority of people who die in car accidents were wearing a seatbelt, doesn't mean that seatbelts don't work incredibly well, just that the overwhelming majority of people wear them, and they aren't able to prevent every death.

Here's how our second and third waves worked out, before the vaccines and after them:

View attachment 1826191

Yes, you should still get vaccinated even if you had COVID before, because the immunity you have isn't binary, we know that getting vaccinated improves it, and there's no real downside to doing so. It's all just more training for your immune system.

Being vaccinated significantly reduces your risk of being infected, which also reduces your odds of infecting others, it also massively reduces your risk of getting seriously ill, and gets quite close to entirely eliminating your risk of dying of COVID. It isn't perfect, but neither are seatbelts in cars, they still save a lot of people's lives anyway and there's really no downside to wearing one, just as there isn't when it comes to getting vaccinated.

Also to be clear "poke immunity" and "natural immunity" aren't like separate things our immune system files away in different places. Our immune system really has no concept of what a vaccine is, it just recognises things it thinks could hurt us and creates antibodies and t/b cells in response. If you've previously had COVID, getting vaccinated will give you even more protection, and it's not like our immune systems have some kind of opportunity cost thing going on where your protection against other things goes down if you have more protection against COVID, or that the protective cells created in response to prior infection are replaced by a whole different kind via the vaccines.


On this basis, the fact that some people still die in car accidents even though they wear seatbelts, would mean that seatbelts are not effective. Please try to understand that most things, especially infectious diseases, aren't a binary.

But America runs with scissors...

 

[Mansu944]

If you are vaccinated, the probability of contracting Covid is much smaller than if you were unvaccinated.

The unvaccinated are most dangerous to other unvaccinated people. The longer that the virus continues to be contracted by humans, the more likely it can mutate into another strain. Future strains may not be blocked by current vaccines, so we'll have to keep getting vaccinated.

Like the flu?

 

[jimbobb24]

No, it means "what the overwhelming scientific evidence shows is most effective". Unfortunately as much as I wish all of those things were super great at treating COVID, most of them aren't, especially not zinc/vitamin D/ivermectin, having natural immunity first requires you to actually get COVID and risk it, including long term impacts like the cognitive impacts we know many people have after it. Monoclonal antibodies seem to help, but what we unambiguously know is much better is already having antibodies and t/b cells via vaccination. It's cliched to say that prevention is better than cure, but it is.

Long term impacts from CV19 are as rare as complications from the vaccine. Boogey men from both sides. The vaccine poses no long term danger in vast vast majority, and surviving CV19 poses no longer term danger in the vast majority of people.

Young people are probably better off getting the virus since it confers best immunity. Remember for the young, on average, this presents like a mild cold. It has literally no impact on them beyond very mild symptoms. Obviously not true for any at risk people and I would encourage vaccination in all of them.

Ivermectin data more controversial and still ongoing, but not robust so far.

 

[ian87w]

The majority of second hand smoke has been mitigated. You are no longer allowed to smoke in most public places inside or outside. We can ban people smoking but we can't ban people breathing, so we have to ban their admittance to ensure they don't spread their virus

No it has not since most places still accommodate smokers, and the stance against them is never that stringent. I'd rather see a total smoking ban everywhere other than in their own homes (which can still be an issue in apartments).

Nonetheless, having option to work from home is probably a good compromise. And from recent news, many would prefer WFH anyways.

 

[WitchDoktor]

But the opinion of the medical community has changed and on the John Hopkins website says that even people that have had Covid should be vaccinated They go on to state that they don't know how long "natural immunity" lasts.

On their web page.

Gosh, I guess I should point my experienced immunologist to...a web page.

I asked him what the risks were when I got my blood results back a couple of weeks ago. He said best case, no effect since the natural immunity is durable. Worst case, he had no decent information (something about the lack of longitudinal studies or something like that...whatever) so based on the known knowns and known unknowns he said he saw no medical reason to try and override my natural immunity.

So despite that piece you cite being on the Internet, I will still trust my doctor who did an actual examination of me, treated me when I was sick, and abides by medical ethics. No offense.

 

[jimbobb24]

But the opinion of the medical community has changed and on the John Hopkins website says that even people that have had Covid should be vaccinated They go on to state that they don't know how long "natural immunity" lasts.

On their web page.

John Hopkins should update their website. Thats yesterdays news. I made a longer post above. It does not appear that vaccination in survivors provides any benefit. Survivors have immunity at highest rates and with durable response so far outstripping everything. We dont know how long the vaccine lasts...thats not a useful argument against natural immunity. But we can presume based on lots of prior data that it will last a very long time. In Italy data it is doing great at a year. No surprise.

The most anti-science presumption countering a 100 years of immunology is that natural immunity would be inferior. You would always assume the opposite, and wait for the data confirming that assumption. The data is in.

 

[techwhiz]

A “fully vaccinated” person can also be severely ill, hospitalized and die why are insurance companies discriminating.

Because they have taken steps recommended to mitigate illness and an in vaccinated person has not.