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Apple Blocks Adobe's Flash-to-iPhone Compiler in Latest SDK Agreement
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Apple: "Meowwwwww... HISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!"
Proper determination to go to all-out war with Adobe it seems. I bet Adobe's equivalent "screw you" will be to withdraw Photoshop and other products from the Mac platform before long, should nicely kill off Apple's traditional 'graphics' business which is mostly Mac Pro and quite lucrative. Obviously not lucrative enough to keep Adobe sweet.
Proper determination to go to all-out war with Adobe it seems. I bet Adobe's equivalent "screw you" will be to withdraw Photoshop and other products from the Mac platform before long, should nicely kill off Apple's traditional 'graphics' business which is mostly Mac Pro and quite lucrative. Obviously not lucrative enough to keep Adobe sweet.
It will be interesting to see how Adobe responds to this...
They have their CS5 launch date in just couple of days and MAJOR feature of it is (or perhaps was!?) EXACTLY Flash CS5 ability to export directly to iDevices
I honestly have no clue what would I do if I was in their place - what Steve did yesterday was very close to check-mate move unless, of course, Adobe comes back with something equally offensive but I really can't see them doing that...
Also, iAds demonstration of Toy Story 3 which was entirely done in HTML5 was simply awesome. And this is coming from someone who loves Flash!
Adobe is truly cornered here and they have to work ULTRA HARD & SUPER FAST - both on Player as well as authoring tool if they wish to keep the damn thing alive...
In any case, we will see how this saga evolves further - it is more exciting and fun than any soap-opera out there that's for sure!
They have their CS5 launch date in just couple of days and MAJOR feature of it is (or perhaps was!?) EXACTLY Flash CS5 ability to export directly to iDevices
I honestly have no clue what would I do if I was in their place - what Steve did yesterday was very close to check-mate move unless, of course, Adobe comes back with something equally offensive but I really can't see them doing that...
Also, iAds demonstration of Toy Story 3 which was entirely done in HTML5 was simply awesome. And this is coming from someone who loves Flash!
Adobe is truly cornered here and they have to work ULTRA HARD & SUPER FAST - both on Player as well as authoring tool if they wish to keep the damn thing alive...
In any case, we will see how this saga evolves further - it is more exciting and fun than any soap-opera out there that's for sure!
Great, so you're purely a consumer. Now if you don't mind, the people who use the standard software to create sources for your entertainment need to get back to work.
Problem is, Apple is dropping arbitrary roadblocks down the highway.
As always Gruber is on point and insightful:
Why Apple Changed Section 3.3.1
The people that think it has anything to do with ads are missing the point, Apple will be the middle man in iAd so why would they care if the ads are delivered in HTML5 or Flash. Same with native applications, considering those factors I think John's line of thought on this is pretty accurate.
Why Apple Changed Section 3.3.1
The people that think it has anything to do with ads are missing the point, Apple will be the middle man in iAd so why would they care if the ads are delivered in HTML5 or Flash. Same with native applications, considering those factors I think John's line of thought on this is pretty accurate.
I’ve been building a game since the 90s (for different platforms and improving it with every new version). A labor of love of many years, and it is finally close to done except for needing more levels to be built! (Which will take months I’m sure.) It’s fun, testers like it, it has evolved into a touch-based game, and it looks amazing—and without Unity I could not have done it. (I won’t name it here—it’s not out anyway.)
Just this week I sent $99 to the Apple dev program. Now it seems as though my game may never see the light of day—not in a way that makes it even worth finishing it.
Unity allowed one person, with more creative skill than programming skill, to make an outstanding game without needing a team or a big loan or a corporate backer. Many excellent games are on the iPhone now as a result—and if they all go away, that loss of indie creativity (not to mention financial ruin for developers who trusted Apple and played by the rules) will be a shame.
I really hope this is a misunderstanding, or a blunder that Apple reverses. (They’ve done so before.)
John Gruber’s analysis makes some sense, no doubt—but not so much when applied to games specifically, and engines like Unity.
This is nothing to do with HTML5, nor about the Flash plugin for web sites. Those are about web apps and the browser. This is about App Store apps, which are not built using HTML5 and Apple doesn’t intend them to be.
I'm convinced John Gruber's got this right, it just makes sense:
"And, obviously, such a meta-platform would be out of Apples control. Consider a world where some other companys cross-platform toolkit proved wildly popular. Then Apple releases major new features to iPhone OS, and that other companys toolkit is slow to adopt them. At that point, its the other company that controls when third-party apps can make use of these features."
You can read his whole column for yourself HERE
Dave
"And, obviously, such a meta-platform would be out of Apples control. Consider a world where some other companys cross-platform toolkit proved wildly popular. Then Apple releases major new features to iPhone OS, and that other companys toolkit is slow to adopt them. At that point, its the other company that controls when third-party apps can make use of these features."
You can read his whole column for yourself HERE
Dave
I still love how all the brilliant techies who post here can't understand that HTML5 won't kill Flash because Flash is a runtime environment. Again, its been said a million times by much smarted people here, but is ignored by the mindless fanboys here. Flash is only as good as the person who has developed the app/site/swf/what-ever it is running. I have had flash sites that crash my machines and I have had flash sites that run fine. Its the developers and coders who make or break Flash. HTML5 killing Flash? Don't hold your breath. HTML5 wasn't developed to kill flash.
No ARM VFP/NEON ASM code allowed?!
The way the new 3.3.1 is currently written, it also seems to outlaw all the music synthesizers, physics simulators, and 3D graphics routines (etc.) partially written in ARM assembly language to access the new fast armv7 NEON vector instructions.
I wonder if they intended that?
The way the new 3.3.1 is currently written, it also seems to outlaw all the music synthesizers, physics simulators, and 3D graphics routines (etc.) partially written in ARM assembly language to access the new fast armv7 NEON vector instructions.
I wonder if they intended that?
An awesome to lose hordes of developers and to commit suicide, Apple. You guys in Cupertino are so full of ****, it's unbelievable. All the coders that you are pissing off will run straight into the arms of Google and their Android platform.
Apple never has understood software developers, and they never will.
Adobe not supporting OSX wouldn't be helpful to Adobes clients either.
You mean like - oh no...I'd have to get a new Windows license instead of just upgrading my CS-Suite.
I am no designer, I don't do this for a living - BUT - as a matter of fact the main Adobe client is a major design agency, that literally will either be currently running windows or is just on the edge of switching within the next upgrade cycle.
Adobe could care less, if they sell Windows or Mac licenses. And the design crowd - the self-imposed hardcore saviours of Apple during their dark days - they are just on the tip to going Hackintosh/Windows as the whole computer lineup has grown even more overpriced and underequipped.
So if Adobe pulls the plug on Mac Software, they really could care less. They have your money right now, and they will get your money if you are a serious silverback in that business.
Correct. Apple doesn't want to be reliant on a proprietary format from another company on their device.
This has happened for years to Apple whether it was some of Adobe's products not being available to Mac users, ActiveX, the lack of feature parity in Office, etc..
Apple has only ever tried to exert control on their own platform. They believe that keeping the web on open standards is to their advantage.
For all the people saying, "Die Flash, Die Flash" - have you ever stopped to ponder the fact that you would not have to download any of these flash apps?
[Didnt think so]
Therefore iphone will be snappy and if it isnt, you wont have flash to blame.
Those that would then say, "Its Apples product and they can do what they wish" - well, not true... its a public company so they need to be mindful of what the public want and offer a choice. [you dont want it, fine you dont have to download it, just like you dont have to download flashplayer on your mac... but if you do, its there for you]
Its called choice.
Peace
dAlen
[Didnt think so]
Therefore iphone will be snappy and if it isnt, you wont have flash to blame.
Those that would then say, "Its Apples product and they can do what they wish" - well, not true... its a public company so they need to be mindful of what the public want and offer a choice. [you dont want it, fine you dont have to download it, just like you dont have to download flashplayer on your mac... but if you do, its there for you]
Its called choice.
Peace
dAlen
That's a simplistic statement. The whole reason for Flash conversion on Adobe's part is to still keep Flash as the standard.
Welcome to the world of business. Freedom is just another form of control.
Opera Mobile is a completely different technology. The interpreted code isn't part of the app. It runs on Opera's servers, not the iPhone. The iPhone app part of Opera is just a remote viewer, similar to the dozens of X11, VNC and RDP apps and other streaming media viewers already in the iPhone App store.
Here's what I would do I was Adobe: I'd officially drop the support for Mac OS X and offer all current Adobe customers that use Mac OS X free Adobe CS crossgrades to Windows.
That move would effectively destroy Apple's last position in the pro market. With Adobe CS gone, Apple would become a pure consumer company.
But this latest stupid Apple move is not only targeted at Adobe, it's also targeted at Unity and MonoTouch. These products are successful because you can use mainstream languages to program your iToy apps, and you do not have to use that ugly, 1980s Objective-C language that nobody else on the planet except for Apple uses.
In Unity and MonoTouch, you can use C# - and that was designed by Microsoft, which is company that actually understands what developers want. But of course Apple cannot accept that Microsoft controls a language that can be used to write software for their iToys. Especially not if that language and the development tools available for it are so much better than the outdated stuff that Apple offers.
This new restriction is a demonstration of fear, and it will cost Apple a lot of developers.
No no no no no! Unity and Torque! This needs to be remedied!
Adobe aren't evil either. Photoshop never gives me problems and has always been a great workhorse app since the G4 days, i really wonder how much people actually run these programs when they bash them so much.. Likewise, I have friends in animation who swear by Flash..
Adobe should, under no circumstances drop Apple support.. Unless you people want to see most of the creatives leave the platform. Nothing can, or will just walk in and replace these applications.
That said, we dont need natively exported flash apps, but it would be seriously dumb of Apple to kill off Unity and Torque.. Capcom, Konami, Bioware, Ubisoft, THQ (and many more) all use Torque.. ! It'd be a massive blow to gaming on the platform. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
They can't possibly ban Torque/Unity.. Surely!
Adobe aren't evil either. Photoshop never gives me problems and has always been a great workhorse app since the G4 days, i really wonder how much people actually run these programs when they bash them so much.. Likewise, I have friends in animation who swear by Flash..
Adobe should, under no circumstances drop Apple support.. Unless you people want to see most of the creatives leave the platform. Nothing can, or will just walk in and replace these applications.
That said, we dont need natively exported flash apps, but it would be seriously dumb of Apple to kill off Unity and Torque.. Capcom, Konami, Bioware, Ubisoft, THQ (and many more) all use Torque.. ! It'd be a massive blow to gaming on the platform. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
They can't possibly ban Torque/Unity.. Surely!
"Adobe needs Apple a lot more than Apple needs Adobe."
Us Apple user think we are so important all the time. Apple is just a consumer company this days. Most of web development/creation and print now days is created on Adobe software. Apple cannot kill Flash. And even if they did then whatever at the end of it what does the consumer get out of it? Nothing...what? you think ads wont be made on html5? we'll just have to create them on html5, no big deal. (It's more work actually=more money) and you banners will still be there.
Flash is way bigger than a cellphone and an iPad (don't get me wrong i love them both). But Apple has nothing on Adobe. And I really do hope Apple never buys Adobe, cause then that would be the end of it.
Business is business and SJ is a business man, he won't do what's best for the consumer he does what's best for him and Apple. And he has a super powerful marketing team/brain that will make people believe his excuses and think they are being sold the greatest, newest, most "magical" next thing.
Look at all of us.
Us Apple user think we are so important all the time. Apple is just a consumer company this days. Most of web development/creation and print now days is created on Adobe software. Apple cannot kill Flash. And even if they did then whatever at the end of it what does the consumer get out of it? Nothing...what? you think ads wont be made on html5? we'll just have to create them on html5, no big deal. (It's more work actually=more money) and you banners will still be there.
Flash is way bigger than a cellphone and an iPad (don't get me wrong i love them both). But Apple has nothing on Adobe. And I really do hope Apple never buys Adobe, cause then that would be the end of it.
Business is business and SJ is a business man, he won't do what's best for the consumer he does what's best for him and Apple. And he has a super powerful marketing team/brain that will make people believe his excuses and think they are being sold the greatest, newest, most "magical" next thing.
Look at all of us.
While I hate Flash, this seems to be the new Apple. They have gotten so big, they are dictating how things move forward. This is how Microsoft was, and what made us all hate them. Now that Apple has some leverage, they are doing the exact same thing.
If Adobe fixed Flash so it wasn't such a resource hog, and was more stable, it would be a viable option in the mobile landscape. However, I still don't see Apple allowing it to be used on their devices. There is more to it than merely it's instability or resource use. It's about control. Flash could make apps portable to different mobile OS's with ease if it was fixed, making Apple lose control of their most valuable asset... the apps created by others for their devices.
If Adobe fixed Flash so it wasn't such a resource hog, and was more stable, it would be a viable option in the mobile landscape. However, I still don't see Apple allowing it to be used on their devices. There is more to it than merely it's instability or resource use. It's about control. Flash could make apps portable to different mobile OS's with ease if it was fixed, making Apple lose control of their most valuable asset... the apps created by others for their devices.
It might happen but then again as others have said, Steve could just stroll into the Adobe offices and say, "Hey guys, I'm your new boss. Apple just bought Adobe. By the way, Flash is dead and all VP and higher level employees are sacked."
This is of course hyperbole, but in response to the absolute ridiculous scenario in your post, it seems only fitting.
Yes, but we all know this will never happen
I am talking about what Adobe can REALLY do to reply to this latest move!?!?
I don't see anything else but some sort of court action - however - what are the chances they can win? I am no lawyer but I think they are close to zero.
In any case, Adobe will reply very soon indeed...
They must since launch day is just around the corner and they won't be able to boost about new features if they wont work...
Perhaps they will simply drop iDevice export and replace it with Android one - this is most likely thing that will happen out of all this.
It is kind of funny watching all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over what is a fairly straight forward and sensible business move.
A Run Time Layer (RTL) has significant disadvantages (what the new SDK clause prohibits).
It uses more resources, (both memory and CPU cycles). On a mobile system running a limited processor and limited ram, that alone is significant.
Next though is that it leads to lowest common denominator applications. When you write an application to target 5 platforms using common upper layer and target run time layers, you get applications that are not optimized on any platform. Compare the Adobe Air cross platform App (Reversi) with a typical game on iPhone making efficient use of 3d hardware.
If such RTLs predominate you pretty lose the ability to innovate your platform as you are at the mercy of the lowest common denominator of all the supported platforms.
Blocking such RTLs is really the only sensible course of action if you want to get the best out of your platform. I would not be the least bit surprised if Microsoft also blocks RTL as well in Win phone 7. I definitely would.
This isn't just about Adobe, it about enforcing development of true native apps which leads to better apps, and more platform innovation, which leads to better apps....
Imagine if instead of native development, console games were developed through an RTL. "Hey great, write once and run on Wii/PS3/Xbox". But if you think about it for more than 2 second you would realize the everything would be limited to the graphics of the Wii, and basic xbox/ps3 style controllers. There would be no incentive to innovate platforms because you are stuck with lowest common denominator cross platform RTL... We would probably still be using PS1 if this was the case.
Native is the only sensible way to go. Apple as usual is about enforcing the sensible.
A Run Time Layer (RTL) has significant disadvantages (what the new SDK clause prohibits).
It uses more resources, (both memory and CPU cycles). On a mobile system running a limited processor and limited ram, that alone is significant.
Next though is that it leads to lowest common denominator applications. When you write an application to target 5 platforms using common upper layer and target run time layers, you get applications that are not optimized on any platform. Compare the Adobe Air cross platform App (Reversi) with a typical game on iPhone making efficient use of 3d hardware.
If such RTLs predominate you pretty lose the ability to innovate your platform as you are at the mercy of the lowest common denominator of all the supported platforms.
Blocking such RTLs is really the only sensible course of action if you want to get the best out of your platform. I would not be the least bit surprised if Microsoft also blocks RTL as well in Win phone 7. I definitely would.
This isn't just about Adobe, it about enforcing development of true native apps which leads to better apps, and more platform innovation, which leads to better apps....
Imagine if instead of native development, console games were developed through an RTL. "Hey great, write once and run on Wii/PS3/Xbox". But if you think about it for more than 2 second you would realize the everything would be limited to the graphics of the Wii, and basic xbox/ps3 style controllers. There would be no incentive to innovate platforms because you are stuck with lowest common denominator cross platform RTL... We would probably still be using PS1 if this was the case.
Native is the only sensible way to go. Apple as usual is about enforcing the sensible.