Apple Ceases Selling Nest Products Online and In Stores

[alvindarkness]

My very knowledgeable HVAC repair guy literally talked me out of getting the Nest thermostat..... something about all one's WiFi data and WiFi activity being uploaded to Google's servers, and not just that which is relevant to the operation of the thermostat.

Don't know if it's true, but it got me thinking, and I'm giving myself the benefit of the doubt.

Exact reason why my nest has not been allowed online, nor upgraded its firmware, since the google take over.

 

[Kuzbad]

Exact reason why my nest has not been allowed online, nor upgraded its firmware, since the google take over.

I have two first-gen nests. I have my frustrations--junky webpage, junky app, junky API--but I can control my two nests with a python script, and that's enough (more than enough!) for me. I logged a JSON download of all data from the nest website every 3 minutes. I have ~3 years of data by now. BUT, I doubt I will ever buy another Nest product due to the Google connection and generally crap software.

Having said that, the statement and claim above is just total crap. No way Nests upload "all one's WiFi data and WiFi activity". I monitor my wifi closely, the Nests just don't transmit anywhere near that amount of data. So don't worry--Nest is not monitoring your wifi packets.

Furthermore, Nest explicitly lists what they collect:

https://nest.com/legal/privacy-statement-for-nest-products-and-services/

• Information input during setup
• Environmental data from the Nest Learning Thermostat’s sensors
• Direct temperature adjustments to the device
• Heating and cooling usage information
• Technical information from the device

If that was a lie, can you imagine the law suit?

 

[IbisDoc]

They won't be selling Nest thermostats for the same reason they don't sell Sonos products - they can't bear to sell products that are far superior to anything they will ever come up with on their own. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[rdlink]

... and when your internet goes down, you instantly lose any way of being in control (or worse!). If you train yourself to adopt good habits, you won't need to rely on an over-engineered "solution" to simple things that people convince themselves are too much "hard work" to learn to do. Technology is great for a lot of things, but this is increasingly becoming a case of "I've got a new hammer, and everything is a nail"

Your tone and statements make you seem very invested in talking people out of utilizing technology to make their lives more convenient and easy.

For someone who is so smart and informed you sure seem to be ignorant about how Nest and other wifi connected devices work. First of all, Nest continues to work as a regular thermostat regardless of whether your wifi goes down (mine rarely does). Second, there are many features of the Nest internet connected thermostat and smoke detector that I use and rely on. Not the least of which is the fact that my Nest smoke detector does self checks and reports the results to me regularly. Something that a non-connected smoke detector won't do. A non-connected smoke detector will tell me when it's busted by waking me up in the middle of the night with false alarms because the sensor has gone bad. Or worse yet, not...

My Nest thermostat is available to me so that I can turn down my AC before I get home, and have a more comfortable night's sleep. It also allows me to adjust my temperature from my second floor bedroom instead of having to go back downstairs in the middle of the night. You might not find any use for these (and the multitude of other) benefits, but many, many people do. Just because you can't understand it doesn't make the rest of us idiots.

Now, if you're finished chastising the rest of us for finding a use for technology, perhaps it's time to go yell at the neighborhood kids and tell them to get off your lawn.

 

[SteveW928]

Good to see Apple dropping a Google product.

That said, I don't see HomeKit going anywhere, either. Like the Apple Watch, HomeKit is one strictly for the gadget-obsessed, lovely people though they may be.

Well, at least until these devices actually work reliably. While not super-useful, I had been interested in such devices when we bought our home and started the reno. But, once I started actually reading about them, found major flaws in each Nest product. I'd rather just have the tried-and-true 'dumb' version, plus it was a lot cheaper.

 

[thekev]

"I'm willing to go thermonuclear war on this."

That Jobs quote has nothing to do with any recent event. Apple has done this with many other things that have no connection to Google.

It would have been funnier if you said something along the lines of "Apple decided to turn up the heat, then removed the thermostat."

 

[unplugme71]

Nest has way too many issues as well. I'm very happy I went with the ecobee3 w/ HK. I even got a $20 refund for pre-ordering a few days ago.

 

[SteveW928]

They won't be selling Nest thermostats for the same reason they don't sell Sonos products - they can't bear to sell products that are far superior to anything they will ever come up with on their own. Out of sight, out of mind.

Far superior? LOL. Try a Nest where it actually gets cold enough to do damage... where the FET fails or they push a problematic update when it's -40 degrees. Or, put up a series of Nest smoke detectors where a false-alarm sets them all off, and you have to rip them down, one by one, and disassemble them to turn them off, all to the tune of lovely excruciating ear-pain.

They should probably hire some people who live outside the Bay area and actually know about HVAC or safety.... or real-life. It's one thing when one's Google-glass isn't working properly... quite another when your heater stops working.

 

[dec.]

They won't be selling Nest thermostats for the same reason they don't sell Sonos products - they can't bear to sell products that are far superior to anything they will ever come up with on their own. Out of sight, out of mind.

Of course your spin works too, if you have strong negative emotions towards Apple, but really I think they just want to avoid the promotion of competing products since "it's sold at the Apple store" does imply a certain qualification. Especially in relatively new categories like home automation.

 

[Black Belt]

Yeah superior. My Nest started randomly changing my temperature and turning itself on after the last "upgrade", using up excess electricity in AC. Thanks aholes.

I have been a customer of Nest since the beginning and they have made an about face of their support for Apple and are blatantly ignoring us longstanding customers about HomeKit. Not only on Facebook but there are giant threads about it on their own website, which they ignore as well. It is apparent they have absolutely no intention of supporting it. That's funny, that's how I feel about Nest now.

 

[bergert]

Methinks this has to do with security - encryption in particular:
http://www.slashgear.com/heres-how-apple-ios-8-homekit-works-04332145/

and hardware issues are in fact delaying the launch:
https://www.macrumors.com/2015/07/22/apple-bluetooth-le-security-slowing-homekit/

Personally, I rather wait for year - than have a NEST now which may be hacked and is sending data back to Google.

 

[nutjob]

I used to say that (and agree with it) about power windows on a car. How hard is it to roll your window up? Yet these days, it is near impossible to find a car with manual windows. Sadly, the sellers take over at some point. Why provide manual windows when you can charge more for power? Its just one more, more fragile, easily broken device.

You make Nest's point by your example: in both cases it improves safety. Automatic windows are safer while driving (I bet you'll tell me that you stop to wind down windows) as is a connected some detector. The occupant(s) may already be overcome or hurt and an automatic alert to others could save their lives.

But as they say, none so blind as those who will not see.

 

[gnasher729]

Because we ALL need an "intelligent" smoke alarm and central heating, don't we? Yeah... no... the phrase "sledgehammer to crack a nut" JUMPS into my mind. The more technology there is, the more there is to go wrong. Seriously, a "connected" smoke alarm? Listen okay, a smoke alarm DETECTS SMOKE - that's ALL it needs to do. If you need it to do more, it's going to become progressively more unlikely that it will be able to RELIABLY (kinda important for a LIFE SAVING device) do the one, SIMPLE thing it needs to do, which is to tell you "HEY! I DETECT SMOKE - TAKE IMMEDIATE ACTION" - you're not going to be admiring how "cool" it is for being "intelligent", when your house is on fire.

I've been a qualified electronic engineer for 24 years, and an idiot for ZERO out of my 40 years. All these "intelligent" and "connected" gadgets just exist to validate the existence of smart phones, by dumb people.

The important thing with a smoke detector is that it detects smoke, and then makes you leave the house! It's not there to save your home, it's there to save your life. If your home burns down while you are at work, your life is just as safe either way, and the house will burn down either way. No advantage with the "intelligent" smoke detector.

 

[Piggie]

Steve would approve

He does not need heating as It's already dam hot where he is now

 

[prowlmedia]

Because we ALL need an "intelligent" smoke alarm and central heating, don't we? Yeah... no... the phrase "sledgehammer to crack a nut" JUMPS into my mind. The more technology there is, the more there is to go wrong. Seriously, a "connected" smoke alarm? Listen okay, a smoke alarm DETECTS SMOKE - that's ALL it needs to do. If you need it to do more, it's going to become progressively more unlikely that it will be able to RELIABLY (kinda important for a LIFE SAVING device) do the one, SIMPLE thing it needs to do, which is to tell you "HEY! I DETECT SMOKE - TAKE IMMEDIATE ACTION" - you're not going to be admiring how "cool" it is for being "intelligent", when your house is on fire.

I've been a qualified electronic engineer for 24 years, and an idiot for ZERO out of my 40 years. All these "intelligent" and "connected" gadgets just exist to validate the existence of smart phones, by dumb people.

Missing the point here. Of course a Life saving is No.1 importance. - but house saving is No.2

They work the same way as an ordinary Smoke alarm / Thermo. But a smoke alarm that can tell you something is wrong when you are in another country is great if you ask me. You can call someone to check or the fire brigade before you house burns to the floor.

As I understand it the primary function of smoke alarm are separate to the online functions too. So if that fails you will alway have the Smoke ( and CO2 - which is as important ) functions.

 

[prowlmedia]

this kind of thing is the same brand of stupid as when we heard Bill Gates dropped the hammer on anyone bringing Apple goods into his house. really Apple, you can't compete even in your own store. ok buddy.

Not really. It's not about competition and googleNest . Apple has created an ecosystem with HomeKit they can show customers how it all works and there is a limited amount of shelf space. And Nest will not be integrating with home kit. So Apple chooses one that does work. Simple. I am sure they will also sell the Honeywell Lyric when that is updated.

I suspect there will be A home kit area in the future in Apple stores showing how all these new connected devices work with HK.

 

[Winni]

Is it good? Why do they have to be enemies? I support Apple and Google and if they would play nice we'd have significantly better technology in our pockets.

I think it's just Apple who does not play well with others. It's in the nature of Google's business to be present on every platform (the same is true for Yahoo or Amazon, by the way). Even Microsoft is opening itself more and more to other platforms - something that was almost unfathomable under Ballmer's reign.

 

[kaplanreject]

I had a Nest thermostat. Honestly, it was junk. Bells and whistles it was nice. But its core function, maintaining the climate control of my home, garbage. Three replacements, all did the same thing. Apparently the heat that the unit puts off affects the temperature sensor, and, by way of verification with a calibrate thermometer, the thermostat always read 6-8 degrees higher than the actual temperature in the house. This caused the a/c to run constantly and the electric bill went through the roof.

 

[Roller]

Because we ALL need an "intelligent" smoke alarm and central heating, don't we? Yeah... no... the phrase "sledgehammer to crack a nut" JUMPS into my mind. The more technology there is, the more there is to go wrong. Seriously, a "connected" smoke alarm? Listen okay, a smoke alarm DETECTS SMOKE - that's ALL it needs to do. If you need it to do more, it's going to become progressively more unlikely that it will be able to RELIABLY (kinda important for a LIFE SAVING device) do the one, SIMPLE thing it needs to do, which is to tell you "HEY! I DETECT SMOKE - TAKE IMMEDIATE ACTION" - you're not going to be admiring how "cool" it is for being "intelligent", when your house is on fire.

I've been a qualified electronic engineer for 24 years, and an idiot for ZERO out of my 40 years. All these "intelligent" and "connected" gadgets just exist to validate the existence of smart phones, by dumb people.

Wow, I'm impressed. You've been a qualified electronic engineer since age 16. And anyone using a connected device is dumb by your pronouncement. Guess what: you just ended your perfect track record of non-idiocy.

 

[k1121j]

hmm think ill hold on buying more nest anything for a while to se how this pans out so far i have 1 thermostat and 11 smoke detectors.... i def want to go the home kit route and imm still a bit disappointed with the nest wave feature being removed and promissed to return and nest seems to have forgotten all about it

 

[roblognick]

Well, the products are still available in the UK Apple Store but that could be because ecobee stuff isn't available here yet.

 

[k1121j]

Because we ALL need an "intelligent" smoke alarm and central heating, don't we? Yeah... no... the phrase "sledgehammer to crack a nut" JUMPS into my mind. The more technology there is, the more there is to go wrong. Seriously, a "connected" smoke alarm? Listen okay, a smoke alarm DETECTS SMOKE - that's ALL it needs to do. If you need it to do more, it's going to become progressively more unlikely that it will be able to RELIABLY (kinda important for a LIFE SAVING device) do the one, SIMPLE thing it needs to do, which is to tell you "HEY! I DETECT SMOKE - TAKE IMMEDIATE ACTION" - you're not going to be admiring how "cool" it is for being "intelligent", when your house is on fire.

I've been a qualified electronic engineer for 24 years, and an idiot for ZERO out of my 40 years. All these "intelligent" and "connected" gadgets just exist to validate the existence of smart phones, by dumb people.

What are or rambling about you obviously don't know how they work .... PS airplanes and cars used to be crank start did that make them better or more reliable I'm thinking not. But your obviously the clild prodegy so you just think what you want

 

[nt5672]

I had a Nest thermostat. Honestly, it was junk. Bells and whistles it was nice. But its core function, maintaining the climate control of my home, garbage. Three replacements, all did the same thing. Apparently the heat that the unit puts off affects the temperature sensor, and, by way of verification with a calibrate thermometer, the thermostat always read 6-8 degrees higher than the actual temperature in the house. This caused the a/c to run constantly and the electric bill went through the roof.

Just go to your nest when the A/C is running and turn it from COOL to OFF. Then listen for your A/C compressor to stop. It takes a while. Why? Because off is apparently not off to West Coast software engineers. Just one example, of many, of bad engineering (well engineering that is inappropriate for Heating & Cooling systems) in the Nest. And I am speaking about this after having owned one since version 2 was released and being an instrument engineer responsible for designing industrial heating and cooling systems.

Actually since google has owned Nest, at least the stupid Ui has improved. When Nest started they all thought that lack of things the UI could do was how to be Apple like. It was really clear after owning it why those people were no longer at Apple.

 

[kaplanreject]

Just go to your nest when the A/C is running and turn it from COOL to OFF. Then listen for your A/C compressor to stop. It takes a while. Why? Because off is apparently not off to West Coast software engineers. Just one example, of many, of bad engineering (well engineering that is inappropriate for Heating & Cooling systems) in the Nest. And I am speaking about this after having owned one since version 2 was released and being an instrument engineer responsible for designing industrial heating and cooling systems.

Actually since google has owned Nest, at least the stupid Ui has improved. When Nest started they all thought that lack of things the UI could do was how to be Apple like. It was really clear after owning it why those people were no longer at Apple.

Its actually long gone. Nest was good enough to give a full refund on the unit and I went back to a standard thermostat. Well I say standard, its a digital touch screen, but it has no connectivity, just a simple, this is the temp, how cold/hot you want it features. Might even have programmable features for cycle times, but, I never use it, Im never home. Wife adjusts it accordingly like clockwork morning and evening. So I guess you could say it is programmed lol.

 

[AppleInLVX]

Kinda too bad. I haven't bought into home automation too much yet, but I think that by way of industrial design, the Nest completely blows the Ecobee away. It looks far more at home in an Apple store. Ecobee looks like any other thing at Best Buy. Anyone own one? Share if you like it, or how it works?