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Sad how Tim Cook feels the need to go on tv to defend the company and products when there's bad news. Did Steve Jobs ever have to do that?

Steve Jobs didn't exist in the Twitter/Instagram/Facebook age, where BS FUD spreads like a disease. Back then, a simple press release would get all the publications of the day to do your PR for you. Can't do that any more.
 
The health aspect of Apple Watch has huge potential if more sensors are added. I was surprised they went for the 10k a watch angle first.

Problem is that Apple only works with iOS, a true gift to mankind would be to all operating system, not just a gift to mankind if you buy into the eco system.

I'd rather my Apple products don't contribute to or connect with that 'other' advertising and data collection platform that masquerades as a phone OS.
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I don't have the articles from 2018 but there were numerous reports that the Apple Watch (and others) were inaccurate for heart rates. I can tell you from experience that numerous Fitbits are terrible at counting steps (which is why I bought it in the first place back in 2016) and that's their sole function.

Again, I welcome and dream of a day when such a medical device can be used, is trusted, and is accurate. We are still in the beginning stages of such technology. But accuracy is critical. Responsibility is even more critical. All of the numerous devices found in hospitals are vehemently designed, tested, and repeatedly tested and maintained to ensure accuracy. When those devices fail and a lawsuit comes, it's never the hospital that is liable...it's the manufacturer. This liability needs to apply to said Apple Watch-type devices in the future. Apple can't simply shrug their shoulders and say "well, I guess the Watch didn't work that well that day...but our TOU says we can't be held liable" if the Watch fails to work as promised for medical usage.

You're trying to compare two completely different things that are designed for two completely different purposes.

A single-read clinical heart rate monitor is not the same as a daily-wear watch, which is geared more toward uncovering trends and wide anomalies compared to what your measured baseline is over time.

I have a heart murmur and I can go to the cardiologist 100 times and it will never show up on a one-time EKG, it's not meant for that. However, next time it happens I'll at least have a little info from my watch, relative to what my normal heart rhythm is, to show my doc.

Saying a watch should have the same kind of accuracy as a piece of equipment in a hospital is absurd. It's apples and oranges. Use the watch for its purpose instead of demanding the impossible/impractical.
 
Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'Apple's Most Important Contribution to Mankind' Will Be in Health

If Apple really wants to get into health/healthcare, they should buy a pharma/biotech/healthcare equipment company.

Called the company/division "An Apple A Day"
 
Thank. You.

Most of the people here are absolutely impossible to please...you can take a freaking ECG FROM YOUR FINGERTIP. If that doesn’t impress you, what will?

Outside the US we are not impressed - because we can not use it. But we happily pay more to get less. I guess we will rather have a Withings with ECG then an Apple watch with ECG enabled.
 
You mean the negative health effects of carrying a phone right next to your vital organs all day?
 
If everyone stops witht the jokes, this is actually a very interesting statement if you step back and take a look.

Apple is so successful And profitable at the moment, with very little being health related, that this makes you wonder what their vision is for the long term.

Imagine the possibilities with technology and health. Apple could make a huge impact here and the CEO thinks they will. That is interesting.

Clearly, you’d look back now and say iPhone. I believe Apple is going hard into health and health devices/services.
 
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I would disagree with your analysis of accuracy. Define accuracy and then define the use of the device. My watch detected a good number of high heart rate readings. The readings were in excess of the standard by 50 or more points. Accurate enough to show a need for more testing and diagnosis. Sure enough with doctor heart systems my readings were within 10 points of a system costing 4K. Was my watch as accurate as the 4K system, in numbers No but, both clearly showed a problem that needed attention. Without the watch tapping me on the wrist, this problem could have degraded with serious consequences. Accuracy defined as what needed to seek medical advice for diagnosis. Apple products more then meet this criteria.

Watch accuracy is within tolerable ranges for the average person. However, I’ve been told by people that love the Apple Watch but work in biomedical engineering, that the chest strap is still more accurate on a consistent basis.

I would love to get one for my fitness activities such as cycling and weight lifting, but they discouraged me from that citing accuracy problems.
 
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I hear Elizabeth Holmes is available to help “Cook” up some fresh rumors for those health-related products — you know, the ones that will change the world.

At least they didn’t drag out the rotting corpse of the :apple: Car.
 
CRAMER: But okay, so let’s unpack that. My daughter has the 5. Why? ’Cause she loves it. She said, “Listen, Dad. If you put it in the washing machine, like your wife did, I’ll get a new one. But you can’t (COOK LAUGHS) pry it outta my cold, dead hands, ’cause I love it.” She is not an upgrader, because you made the greatest product. What do we do about that? What do you do?

COOK: Well, the most important thing, for me, is that she’s happy. That is the most important thing. Now, if she’s not upgrading for another reason, maybe it’s too much of a hassle for her to upgrade. Maybe she’s worried about the transfer of data.

All of this stuff, we wanna help on. And do you know, we’ve got the store that you’re in that’s very focused on having the best customer experience there, helping people set up their new phone, making sure all their data’s transferred, and also-- allowing them to trade in their current phone, which begins to look like a subsidy that the carrier may have previously provided. And it offsets some of the cost of the new phone.

Maybe Cramer's daughter doesn't want to upgrade because Apple doesn't offer an iPhone in that size anymore, especially one with TouchID button and 3.5mm jack. Maybe the new iPhones are too expensive.

My take is she's saying Apple needs to offer an updated iPhone SE.
 
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While I applaud Apple, Fitbit, and similar vendors for their health watch thingies, all of these devices are far, far from accurate. 100% of them. Right now they are nothing more than expensive watches that promise health benefits but provide 0 accountability (as documented in their Terms Of Use too) and provide poor/inaccurate reports.

Apple and other vendors need to create something extremely accurate and also the government SHOULD strongly regulate the devices since they are marketed as medical devices. Apple and others need to be held accountable if their health device fails to be accurate and sends the owner into medical distress.

I would LOVE to own a medical device wrapped around my wrist that gives extremely accurate heart info, blood pressure info, oxygen level, etc. while allowing me and my doctor and an ER staff member instant and EASY access to the logs of these reports going back as far as 180 days. I think this kind of device would be extremely valuable.


I'm going to disagree - I got an apple watch series 4 for Christmas, ECG recognized my moms recently diagnosed A-Fib on the first try. The other 4 people in the room, including 2 with recent checkups came up normal. My original Apple Watch measures consistent with the result at the doctor, and my 3 year old Withings BP cuff still measures within 2-3% of the result I get at the doctors office (on the original AA batteries no less)

Of course they aren't 100% - just like anything it will take time to develop the tech. Do you think all of the features you want have been just sitting on a shelf somewhere at Apple and evil Tim is just sitting on them?
 
I don't have the articles from 2018 but there were numerous reports that the Apple Watch (and others) were inaccurate for heart rates. I can tell you from experience that numerous Fitbits are terrible at counting steps (which is why I bought it in the first place back in 2016) and that's their sole function.

Again, I welcome and dream of a day when such a medical device can be used, is trusted, and is accurate. We are still in the beginning stages of such technology. But accuracy is critical. Responsibility is even more critical. All of the numerous devices found in hospitals are vehemently designed, tested, and repeatedly tested and maintained to ensure accuracy. When those devices fail and a lawsuit comes, it's never the hospital that is liable...it's the manufacturer. This liability needs to apply to said Apple Watch-type devices in the future. Apple can't simply shrug their shoulders and say "well, I guess the Watch didn't work that well that day...but our TOU says we can't be held liable" if the Watch fails to work as promised for medical usage.

Confusing Home Devices with Hospital Grade Devices. If we follow your logic then no home devices should be used. Such as blood pressure, glucose, temperature, etc. Because they all are less accurate then the hospital systems. The home or out of doctors environment devices are data collectors for ones medical team. They can be off a few points but over time they paint a picture as to how things are going for the medical team. For final diagnosis, doctors and other medical professionals rely on their systems.

I doubt the home systems will anytime soon get to the level you are proposing. However, does not demish their value. And getting better because of technology and companies like Apple.
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Watch accuracy is within tolerable ranges for the average person. However, I’ve been told by people that love the Apple Watch but work in biomedical engineering, that the chest strap is still more accurate on a consistent basis.

I would love to get one for my fitness activities such as cycling and weight lifting, but they discouraged me from that citing accuracy problems.

Just a thought....Never ask a recommendation from someone who’s career depends on devices they do not make. To the basic point, a chest strap has proven to be more accurate but has its own set of issues.

Example, set the Apple Watch to notify you for a heart rate over 120 or under 40 during the workout, does it really matter if it is a few percentage points off? If your heart stops at real 121 and Apple Watch reported 120, you actually had a major problem already. Now if Apple Watch consistently reported a 150 during your workout, might be a good time to take a closer look as to why. But without the watch, one has the two finder on the neck fallback. I use mine for exercising, the results are well within what my chest strap reporting system did.

The accuracy is not for Hospital ICU, gives one guidance. Apple Watch excellent for my needs, exercising, swimming, kayaking, hiking, and reading a book, since Apple Watch zero (not swimming until 3).

Hope that gives another side to the discussion.
 
I have to say that there has been a noticeable improvement in Siri and Apple maps in the last few months. A big improvement. There really must be more attention being paid in those areas, not just Cook ‘pipeline’ speak.
 
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Apple should buy Withings now that Nokia has sold it back to its founder.

It’s the perfect fit for an Apple Health division. Withings products function with the simplicity and and ease of use that is so ingrained in Apple’s culture and look like they could have been designed by Jony Ive.
 
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I have to say that there has been a noticeable improvement in Siri and Apple maps in the last few months. A big improvement. There really must be more attention being paid in those areas, not just Cook ‘pipeline’ speak.
Agree.

Data also supports it with a recent study showing Apple crushed Alexa and Cortana and performed nearly as well as spyware Google.
 
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Confusing Home Devices with Hospital Grade Devices. If we follow your logic then no home devices should be used. Such as blood pressure, glucose, temperature, etc. Because they all are less accurate then the hospital systems. The home or out of doctors environment devices are data collectors for ones medical team. They can be off a few points but over time they paint a picture as to how things are going for the medical team. For final diagnosis, doctors and other medical professionals rely on their systems.

I doubt the home systems will anytime soon get to the level you are proposing. However, does not demish their value. And getting better because of technology and companies like Apple.

To you and others here: I am not a doctor or medical device manufacturer. Apple and others are entering an industry (medical devices) that is heavily regulated and is not the same as an MP3 player industry. What I am saying is:

1)I welcome the day of an Apple Watch device that will test/track loads of information about my health...and make it available instantly to an ER doctor if they find me lying on the side of the road...and make it available to my Primary Care Physician (PCP) whenever needed...and make it easily available/readable to me, Mr. Consumer, so I can watch for possible problems. We've seen such devices (or suits) in sci-fi movies for at least the past 40 years...to have something like that by 2030 would be amazing. One can argue that currently, Apple and others are pitching these products as psuedo-medical devices. 3-10 years from now my guess is these would be pitched as medical devices and/or treated as such by the government and viewed by society as a medical device...not a watch that just so happens to guess your heart rate.

2)If there is no accountability/liability by the manufacturer, then the device is nothing more than a toy and should be advertised as such. People aren't going to die if their cell phone doesn't live up to a promise of blazing fast internet speeds or some fancy display. People aren't going to die if their tv doesn't stream perfectly. People aren't going to die if their iPod battery doesn't last the promised 8 hours. People will die, however, if their <insert your 2030 medical device name here that is much like an Apple Watch> decides to stop tracking your heart rate unbeknownst to you...or if it reports your heart rate is fine when it's definitely very bad...or it reports your blood pressure is perfect when it is truly terrible...or fails to call 911 as promised if you have a heart attack. These wearable devices that promise/promote/advertise health tracking so that you can take care of yourself better or report results to ER or PCPs need to be held accountable if they do not meet these promises/advertisements. If they want to advertise them as fun My Little Pony Health Care Tracker for playtime and pretend doctor scenarios, sure, that's a completely different sales pitch and story and acceptance of use. Apple's website states (emphasis mine):

"Apple Watch Series 4 inspires you to live a healthier life by helping you manage everything from everyday stress to calories burned. At the same time, it monitors your heart rate and lets you know if it detects something of concern. And that sense of security now goes a step further with fall detection and Emergency SOS. The new Apple Watch has your back — as well as your heart....Emergency SOS allows you to quickly get help. It calls 911, notifies your emergency contacts, sends your current location, and displays your Medical ID badge on the screen for emergency personnel."

That sounds like a medical device to me...and some really straightforward advertising about security, emergency situations, and that it "has your back". It will diplay my Medical ID to the ER, call 911 for me, sends my physical location, etc. Those are a lot of promises and I take them very seriously. I'll pay for it. But I want accountability in return for my payment for this medical device.

I'll happily pay for the medical device that is accurate, designed with the stringest QC, and that the manufacturer is held accountable. I won't pay for a toy because it's no use to me. This is exactly why I returned my Fitbit...it was completely inaccurate (and hundreds of others agreed). There is no value, in my eyes, for a $150 step counter that is wildly inaccurate.
 
To you and others here: I am not a doctor or medical device manufacturer. Apple and others are entering an industry (medical devices) that is heavily regulated and is not the same as an MP3 player industry. What I am saying is:

1)I welcome the day of an Apple Watch device that will test/track loads of information about my health...and make it available instantly to an ER doctor if they find me lying on the side of the road...and make it available to my Primary Care Physician (PCP) whenever needed...and make it easily available/readable to me, Mr. Consumer, so I can watch for possible problems. We've seen such devices (or suits) in sci-fi movies for at least the past 40 years...to have something like that by 2030 would be amazing. One can argue that currently, Apple and others are pitching these products as psuedo-medical devices. 3-10 years from now my guess is these would be pitched as medical devices and/or treated as such by the government and viewed by society as a medical device...not a watch that just so happens to guess your heart rate.

2)If there is no accountability/liability by the manufacturer, then the device is nothing more than a toy and should be advertised as such. People aren't going to die if their cell phone doesn't live up to a promise of blazing fast internet speeds or some fancy display. People aren't going to die if their tv doesn't stream perfectly. People aren't going to die if their iPod battery doesn't last the promised 8 hours. People will die, however, if their <insert your 2030 medical device name here that is much like an Apple Watch> decides to stop tracking your heart rate unbeknownst to you...or if it reports your heart rate is fine when it's definitely very bad...or it reports your blood pressure is perfect when it is truly terrible...or fails to call 911 as promised if you have a heart attack. These wearable devices that promise/promote/advertise health tracking so that you can take care of yourself better or report results to ER or PCPs need to be held accountable if they do not meet these promises/advertisements. If they want to advertise them as fun My Little Pony Health Care Tracker for playtime and pretend doctor scenarios, sure, that's a completely different sales pitch and story and acceptance of use. Apple's website states (emphasis mine):

"Apple Watch Series 4 inspires you to live a healthier life by helping you manage everything from everyday stress to calories burned. At the same time, it monitors your heart rate and lets you know if it detects something of concern. And that sense of security now goes a step further with fall detection and Emergency SOS. The new Apple Watch has your back — as well as your heart....Emergency SOS allows you to quickly get help. It calls 911, notifies your emergency contacts, sends your current location, and displays your Medical ID badge on the screen for emergency personnel."

That sounds like a medical device to me...and some really straightforward advertising about security, emergency situations, and that it "has your back". It will diplay my Medical ID to the ER, call 911 for me, sends my physical location, etc. Those are a lot of promises and I take them very seriously. I'll pay for it. But I want accountability in return for my payment for this medical device.

I'll happily pay for the medical device that is accurate, designed with the stringest QC, and that the manufacturer is held accountable. I won't pay for a toy because it's no use to me. This is exactly why I returned my Fitbit...it was completely inaccurate (and hundreds of others agreed). There is no value, in my eyes, for a $150 step counter that is wildly inaccurate.
The FDA has not classified Apple Watch as a medical device. The fall detection and SOS aren’t medical device either. However, the innovation is interesting.
 
With the way MacRumors readers are, they’d find a way to hate on Cook even if he announced a cure for cancer. Probably by saying he should focus on the Mac.

Best post in the last 3 months.

This forum is called MacRumors and most people are here to discuss Mac and Apple products, not cancer. He could cure cancer and still be doing a bad job or be a poor fit as CEO of Apple; the two aren’t mutually exclusive.

Personally, I find him very difficult to listen to. He should’ve used the interview as an opportunity to provide assurance to iPad Pro customers, but he’s been completely silent on that.
 
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