Apple Confirms 2018 MacBook Pro Keyboard Has 'Membrane' to 'Prevent Debris From Entering the Butterfly Mechanism'

[thealkimist]

It's so great to see everyone b*tching about this when Apple offers to replace their keyboards free of charge. It inspires my love for humanity.

 

[PBG4 Dude]

next version

Holy crap! I bought one of these with paper route money when I was 13! Good ole Timex Sinclair.

 

[Yvan256]

It's so great to see everyone b*tching about this when Apple offers to replace their keyboards free of charge. It inspires my love for humanity.

We keep getting posts like these, so I'm going to call them out too: What's with all the Apple defenders on these forums? Apple makes flawed hardware, charges a fortune for it and we're not supposed to say anything?!

People complain because they're stuck with a lemon that gets fixed into another brand-new lemon.

It doesn't matter that Apple will replace their keyboards free of charge since they're replacing them with the same flawed part that will probably fail again in the future. Enjoy your brand-new, free of charge lemon! See you in another six months for another one!

 

[tigres]

Tearing the condom will result in ~800 repair bill. nice

 

[oldmacs]

It's so great to see everyone b*tching about this when Apple offers to replace their keyboards free of charge. It inspires my love for humanity.

Whoa. Apple is in the wrong here. They designed a dodgy keyboard and are replacing dodgy keyboards with new dodgy keyboards that are bound to break again on super expensive laptops. They then lie about their new keyboard, saying there is no problem with the old keyboard, when in reality they've put a fix in to alleviate the issue...

 

[dgdosen]

It's so great to see everyone b*tching about this when Apple offers to replace their keyboards free of charge. It inspires my love for humanity.

Are the 2018 keyboards covered by this offer? Apple could have garnered some goodwill if they'd extend that offer to these newer notebooks. Honestly, nobody knows the long term viability. That 'risk' should be borne by Apple.

 

[HacKage]

Tearing the condom will result in ~800 repair bill. nice

Which in the grand scheme of having a tear in your condom isn't all that bad! It's all relative, Apple is cutting us a great deal here!

 

[Falhófnir]

Good to know they’ve made a detectable fix, hopefully by the time the 2019 MBPs roll around it will be apparent whether it has worked. I really think they should make this keyboard available to 2016/17 MBPs as well though after this whole palaver. That’s the sort of show of good faith Apple should be aspiring to.

 

[coolkid93]

If they filed a patent for this back in 2016 why did it first get approved on this generation of MacBooks when it should of been on the 2017 models? What a JOKE

 

[n-evo]

Some people use their computers outside their homes. Some people live in areas where there's more dust in the air. Some people have air purifiers in their homes. There's a lot of variables at play here.

Other people also mentioned that heat could be another factor that's directly affecting the butterfly mechanism. Again that's another variable as people typing documents and going on Facebook will not push their computers as much as those using CPU-heavy and/or GPU-heavy programs that heats up the laptop.

I'm using my MacBook Pro professionally inside and outside the home. Inside the office or outside. Working in a dust free environment is pretty much impossible anywhere.

 

[trifid]

It's all part of Ive's evil plan, create a problem that didn't exist to fulfill his lifelong journey of thinness:

 

[Menneisyys2]

Probably the worst keyboard ever made to type on, but it would still work even if you poured a cup of dust and sand on top of it and just wiped it off with your bare hand.

Could be even worse - with fully sensor-based (absolutely not moving) keyboards. An example:

https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primo#/media/File:Primo_A_piros.jpg

Or any "laser" keyboard like:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071X4CG4...&pd_rd_r=629802e7-8b6f-11e8-bb99-0baf3359ef3b

 

[coolkid93]

I never had these dust problems or particles getting in my 2015 MBP Lol

 

[esk]

"Be careful not to tear the membrane. A torn membrane will result in a top case replacement." LMAO

 

[simonmet]

I remember when the forums actually had people who liked Apple products. Now all people do is come here to bitch and moan about everything under the sun. I'm not sure if that speaks volumes about the site or Apple or society in general.

It reflects upon Apple. People haven't changed.

 

[acorntoy]

The nTB did not get the new keyboard correct?

How is Apple allowed to continue to sell a defective product? (Repair program and now a new design to fix it). If the 2016-2017 was only a small percentage Apple should explain what was causing it and how the nTB process was modified besides the silicone to avoid it.

 

[trifid]

It reflects upon Apple. People haven't changed.

Something happened after Steve's death, in retrospective we see a clear of Apple losing vision:

Mac Pro 2013 - redesign focused on form over function and proved shortsighted due to cooling limits
MBP 2018 - redesign focused on thinness and proved shortsighted due to cooling limits, plus compromised keyboard reliability and noise

 

[Firebrand]

Let's see:

• Apple designed a faulty keyboard in order to make the MBP 0.01 mm thinner
• Apple denied the problem even as data and hard facts proved them otherwise
• Only after some class action lawsuits went public Apple launched a keyboard replacement program
• Apple replaces faulty 2016 and 2017 keyboards with the same old faulty designed keyboards that will fail again - it's just a matter of time
• Apple released a new MBP with a fixed keyboard. This keyboard won't be available to 2016/2017 MBP owners.
• If you want a working keyboard just spend another 2,400-7,000 USD to buy a new 2018 MBP but please don't do anything more than surfing the web, sending emails or writhing a letter. Otherwise your powerful 6-core MBP will start throttling down to 800 MHz.

Doesn't make the best impression to me

Somehow your post made me revisit the lyrics of a particular Shania Twain song
https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/shaniatwain/thatdontimpressmemuch.html

 

[charlituna]

“They would never do that, because they’d be admitting fault.”

Oh... OH.

and yet look at how they are admitting fault. they didn't say that it was a faulty design but 'dirt and dust' which is basically them saying that dirty users and use in dirty areas is what's messing it up. all but saying that users damaged the keyboards, but hey they are going to be nice and fix it for ya anyway. a repeat of the 'service program' for the 6 plus where they said that the issue was users bending their phones but hey they were going to be nice and let you swap it for cheaper than normal. and even the iPhone battery program if you read between the lines they say it's users keeping their phones so long that the battery is dying from being too old.

 

[shadowmatt]

ARE. YOU. KIDDING. ME.
Your comment is utterly absurd and in riddled with opinion-based conjecture.

First, it is entirely possible that Apple has a DUAL PURPOSE for the silicone in the new keyboard. It could very well be for sound dampening AND dust and particle protection. Apple didn't lie about anything.

Second, you have a terrible warped and unrealistic view of product and engineering cycles. Assuming the 2016 and 2017 keyboard issues were found during the 2016 product cycle (with the first wave of the new keyboards), the 2017 models would have already been signed off on and likely in production. As a result, it would have taken AT LEAST a year for engineering and manufacturing to catch up with a revised keyboard and/or fix to the issue. Knowing this wasn't enough, Apple issued a quality repair program and IS refunding anyone who previously paid for a repair.

Your expectations are horridly unrealistic. Compensated for your time? Gone into debt over the repair? Neither are Apple's issues. Apple does not manage your time nor do they manage your finances. If your time is THAT valuable, there is nothing stopping you from having a backup Mac on hand for when yours is out for repair. Or, there is nothing stopping you from buying a new MacBook and using it until yours returns from repair, only to return it and get your money back. You didn't HAVE to lose considerable time.

Get a life, go find something else to complain about dawg. You need Jesus.

In Apples documentation it says this. Try reading the article??

"Caution: The keyboard has a membrane under the keycaps to prevent debris from entering the butterfly mechanism. Be careful not to tear the membrane. A torn membrane will result in a top case replacement."

Thats point 1 of your rant sorted.

Apple's product engineering cycles are not that long, especially not for a small keyboard update. They have in the past done mid life cycle updates to fix issues with the machine they were selling.

Thats point 2 of your rant sorted.

Refunding is not enough, if they knew there was an issue, and they did, then they are fraudulently charging and people should be compensated.

The class action lawsuits will sort out the compensation issue. They allege fraudulent concealment and demand punitive damages.

Apple is accused of, among other things, violating California's Unfair Competition Law and Consumer Legal Remedies Act, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act, and breach of express warranty.

Thats point 3 of your rant sorted.

"Get a life, go find something else to complain about dawg. You need Jesus."

Erm yeah, you got angry at me for repeating my opinion of an ongoing legal issue and recommended Jesus.

I would recommend you don't turn to Jesus to solve your hardware issues.

 

[corebeliefs]

Yes, because Apple’s entire lineup over the past 20 years has been all about looks.

Under Jobs, Ive was great. But designers without strong guidance can get caught up in their own underwear. Ive should be designing chairs at this point, because chairs do not have internal components. The i9 debacle is obvious proof that the design of Apple's machines is hindering its usability.

And the quest for thinness is why we have this keyboard issue as well. Those are design issues, and if Ive is running the design department, those are his issues.

 

[Guy Clark]

There's a datedness I too don't need and can do without, but there was too much throwing out the baby with the bathwater I feel with iOS7 and beyond. Looking beyond some datedness details, anytime I use my old touch iPod (which I use for home surveillance using the Manything app) with iOS 6 or iPad 1st-generation (which I leave in the garage) with iOS 5, there's a certain "quickness of use" I can't help but notice and be astonished by, and which reminds me of that magical feeling I had from 2010-2013 of iphone/ipad ownership. It's the result of there being better (IMHO) use of basic UIx cues such as borders, shading, colors, and (dare I say it) 3D looking buttons that instantly (subconsciously) allow a mental organization in my mind so I can take in what's in front of me and then start processing/using. ioS 6 and prior did a much better job at using black/white and blue indications, vs. iOS 7+ which went completely overboard with basic shapes/representations and over-use of blue font for both "info" and "press me" items. Again, any time I use my old iPod or iPad, it just blows me away how different it "feels."

Even as an experienced user who does not "need" to see something look a certain way in order to use the device, there are instinctual-based UIx cues whose helpfulness can be felt and are just plain fact, no matter how much Jony thinks they are unnecessary. It's his scoffing away certain UIx cues to be "no longer needed" that is one of the main reasons I think he's not as good a designer as his reputation holds him to be, resulting in a decreased user experience for me and many.

In the context of this thread, Apple's misguided emphasis on thin and minimalism has resulted in this disaster of a keyboard. Their current focus is why I rushed to buy a 2014 MBA while I still could, for the USB ports and non-toy-looking OSX Mavericks.

macOS GUI's have come full circle compare OS X 10.4 Tiger to OS X 10.10 Yosemite
http://toastytech.com/guis/osx14desktop.png
https://images.techhive.com/images/article/2014/10/yosemite-desktop-100525847-large.jpg

 

[RumorConsumer]

I have never seen this in a MacRumors article before:

"Apple confirmed to MacRumors that third-generation keyboards will not be offered as replacements under its service program for 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro second-generation keyboard repairs, likely due to a tweaked top case design."

Apple is talking directly to MR about policy? Is that new? No offense to MR but you guys are the enemy when it comes to trade secrets. I've always thought that Apple would do well to have some kind of official megaphone to address the hearsay and ultimately save themselves a lot of question answering. I guess this is the solution. Gruber's got some competition!

 

[bluecoast]

At least this means that people can buy a MBP and know that it's been much improved and that this iteration is pretty much 'done' - as long as they:

- Don't get the i9 version
- Get the correct amount of RAM and SSD at purchase

 

[simonmet]

didn't they refuse this explanation and said at first that it's purely to limit noise?
"A torn membrane will result in a top case replacement" .. are they F serious?? I can't believe what I'm reading. It can't be described otherwise than as totally bad design.

A lie I guess, like Phil Schiller's 'we can't put DDR4 in a MacBook Pro'.