Apple Confirms 2018 MacBook Pro Keyboard Has 'Membrane' to 'Prevent Debris From Entering the Butterfly Mechanism'

[ignatius345]

I remember when the forums actually had people who liked Apple products. Now all people do is come here to bitch and moan about everything under the sun. I'm not sure if that speaks volumes about the site or Apple or society in general.

I adore my Macs, iPhone and iPad Mini -- but Apple sure ain't making it easy these days. Seems like every iteration of a product removes or degrades something I actively use like ports or MagSafe or a headphone jack or a good, reliable keyboard. And all they're really offering in return is thinness we didn't ask for and some incremental spec bumps.

I'm currently using an iPhone SE, which I love for its size and the headphone jack, a 2012 MacBook Pro with a good, reliable keyboard, MagSafe connector and USB-A ports, and a 5K iMac, which I consider a rare bright spot in Apple's offerings these days. I am itching to upgrade the MacBook but it doesn't look likely anytime soon, I'm afraid.

 

[JosephAW]

I'm glad I took my 2017 MBP back and bought a Grade A mid 2012 MBP 15" non retina and maxed it out with16gb ram and ssd. I love all the ports and MagSafe.

 

[MoreRumors?]

In time, we'll see how effective this new design will fare. So in the mean time, avoid eating and drinking over your keyboard (it's not a substitution for a plate), stay away from very dusty environment and vacuum the keyboard once or every other week. When in doubt, Saran wrap the keyboard and replace when worn or torn.

 

[Tozovac]

macOS GUI's have come full circle compare OS X 10.4 Tiger to OS X 10.10 Yosemite
http://toastytech.com/guis/osx14desktop.png
https://images.techhive.com/images/article/2014/10/yosemite-desktop-100525847-large.jpg

Ha ha, are you kidding? Screenshots are completely different than the overall UIx experience. 10.4 still has "lickable buttons" and an Apple-feel. Yosemite looks like wannabe-Microsoft with Fisher Price My First Computer-looking stoplight buttons, completely unnecessary (and distracting) transparency, and too much leaning towards flat/unintuitive UI.

 

[bluecoast]

IHMO, Apple's main problem right now is Jony Ive himself. Without anyone to tell him "no", he's been making bad decisions after bad decisions.

As for "upgrade path", I didn't mean "upgrade the laptop" I meant future laptops. That's what "path" means. What am I going to buy once that 2015-2017 MacBook Air needs to be replaced? Will Apple have come back to its senses in 2027?

And yes, the Dell XPS seems to be a popular choice amongst Apple switchers*.

* it's so sad that this once meant something else.

Jony Ive is one of the most talented industrial designers ever HOWEVER, I agree with you - I would much prefer it if Apple went back to being a balance of form and function.

I suspect we've now got at Apple the opposite of the norm in consumer electronics - which is to have the industrial designers to 'skin' the electronics beneath - and is much more 'here's the design, fit the innards to match it. No, we're not changing the design at any point. Do you know who I am?'.

Here's hoping that Ive is now working on idevices, Apple Glasses, Car, the new Watch etc. and he leaves the computers alone.

Surely by now he must be bored of shaving off more mm every few years of each Mac model?

Leave it to one of the designers who believes in the unity of 'form and function' and who realises that their design (the form) is only good if it fully meshes with the function...

 

[MoreRumors?]

I remember when the forums actually had people who liked Apple products. Now all people do is come here to bitch and moan about everything under the sun. I'm not sure if that speaks volumes about the site or Apple or society in general.

It's okay to criticize, within reason, if an issue affect the performance of a device. If Apple wants to project its products as the best and charge at a higher price than its competitors, then it is reasonable for customers to expect very little issues.
[doublepost=1532019532][/doublepost]

Why does Apple have such a hard time admitting that it screwed up?

"Our bad. We'll fix your keyboards for free if they have the problem. Here's what we did to improve reliability going forward."

That's all they have to do. Instead they dance around it and are all mysterious and don't tell us anything.

TALK TO US, APPLE. Everyone makes mistakes, even big companies. At least fess up and admit that you *FIXED* the problem!

Totally agree with you. Doing it this way maintain customer satisfaction and continued loyalty. They are financially healthy and can afford to do it this way.

 

[DjanSeriyAnaplian]

This should be reposted because it encapsulates this debate perfectly:

 

[Guy Clark]

Ha ha, are you kidding? Screenshots are completely different than the overall UIx experience. 10.4 still has "lickable buttons" and an Apple-feel. Yosemite looks like wannabe-Microsoft with Fisher Price My First Computer-looking stoplight buttons, completely unnecessary (and distracting) transparency, and too much leaning towards flat/unintuitive UI.

Take a specific look at the Dock. It is though the releases from Leopard to Mavericks never existed.

 

[mistasopz]

Apple to customers: "This new keyboard design is for damping sound and has nothing to do with keeping out debris."

Internal Apple document: "Don't mess with the membrane in the new design because it's there to keep out debris."

Okay............

 

[Guy Clark]

This should be reposted because it encapsulates this debate perfectly:

Absolutely if another manufacturer screws up the consumer will let all hell loose. I am not saying all users of Apple products are the same as I would be brandishing myself.
But a cult does exist convinced Apple can do no wrong and some members are on here mostly identifiable by their usernames.
Those individuals although unaware are screwing it for all of us as Apple will continue to make design errors without getting pulled up for them by the Cult of Apple.

 

[coolfactor]

Actually 64 condoms.
[They saved the 14 condoms off the ESC row.]

I was in an Apple store yesterday and tried out the new MacBook Pro. My past impression was not great, but yesterday, I was very impressed and I feel I could easily adapt to this new low-profile keyboard (compared to my 2013 MacBook Air). And I found the Touchbar very impressive. Never use the function keys blindly, except for the ESC key, so moving from physical keys to virtual keys should not be a big deal.

I see a new 2018 MacBook Pro in my future.

 

[iReality85]

Although having a silicone membrane is a noble idea, this whole butterfly switch controversy has been a case of over-engineering at its finest.

Invent a new solution (butterfly switch) for a non-issue (scissor switch) that requires more engineering (silicone membrane) to make the new solution viable that the original non-issue never exhibited.

 

[MoreRumors?]

It's bad design if a single torn membrane results in replacing a top case.

And not cost-efficient if it accidentally occurs more than they want it to happen.

 

[Glockworkorange]

So will this be provided to us the next we have to send in our 2016/2017 macbook pro's for repair? I just got mine back from a repair just a few weeks ago.

Nope.

The insides of the machine are also re-designed. so the membrane-thingies won't fit.

 

[seadragon]

Absolutely if another manufacturer screws up the consumer will let all hell loose. I am not saying all users of Apple products are the same as I would be brandishing myself.
But a cult does exist convinced Apple can do no wrong and some members are on here mostly identifiable by their usernames.
Those individuals although unaware are screwing it for all of us as Apple will continue to make design errors without getting pulled up for them by the Cult of Apple.

It is both baffling and somewhat amusing how these members keep defending Apple as they do. But I suppose...

 

[wheelhot]

For a company that talks about sustainability and environment, they certainly sucks at designing things to be replaceable, a stuck key shouldn't require the whole keyboard assembly to be replaced and a battery that doesn't hold charge as long as it should be, should've be an easy change instead of having to peel the glue off.

 

[macduke]

Some basic testing would have figured this out. Sometimes too much secrecy is a bad thing.

 

[avkills]

Ha ha

 

[Appleaker]

After seeing the membrane covering the mechanism, and one that happens to match a patented key dust protection measure, it is no surprise.

Apple can’t claim it is to prevent these issues for obvious reasons.

But maybe they will after this leak, who knows.

 

[Idefix]

Mac users have been mostly the same from day one. A high percentage has eaten right next to their laptops, or their laptaps have been used in coffee shops and bakeries, for decades. Creatives are just like that...

The thing that changed is that Apple came up with a keyboard that didn't fare well in those environments.

Quit blaming the users! They're just doing what they've always done with previous Apple laptops.

 

[code-m]

What will it take for Apple to admit their initial designs were flawed? Another throttle-gate?

Apple it seems is purposefully restricting and overlooking thermodynamics and deigns issues with the MBP/Mac hardware line. By frustrating the customer with delayed repairs and design flaws, we are seeing that Apple is transitioning its efforts away from the Mac hardware line and into mobile and other services.

Apple may have started as a computer company, however it was inevitable to strengthen its presence into other services. How does one make a perfect claim shell design better, you don’t. You overengineer it to make it worse and gradually push people onto other devices (iPad Pro, iMac, etc). The Mac line is simply not exciting for Apple any longer, hence the change from Apple Computers to Apple Inc.

 

[corebeliefs]

Mac users have been mostly the same from day one. A high percentage has eaten right next to their laptops, or their laptaps have been used in coffee shops and bakeries, for decades. Creatives are just like that...

The thing that changed is that Apple came up with a keyboard that didn't fare well in those environments.

Quit blaming the users! They're just doing what they've always done with previous Apple laptops.

I agree about not blaming the user but we need to stop implicating users with general factoids like, a high percentage of users eat and drink at their laptops. That is also a way of blaming users, and it isn't a fact that it ever happened in high numbers. (Drinking a coffee with a lid is also not the same as eating a crumbly pastry.)

It is safe to say, the keyboards changed, not user habits.

 

[pipis2010]

Why does Apple have such a hard time admitting that it screwed up?

"Our bad. We'll fix your keyboards for free if they have the problem. Here's what we did to improve reliability going forward."

That's all they have to do. Instead they dance around it and are all mysterious and don't tell us anything.

TALK TO US, APPLE. Everyone makes mistakes, even big companies. At least fess up and admit that you *FIXED* the problem!

It’s called Crisis Management and PR stunts for no reason really... corporate BS in essence for a company like Apple!

 

[jerryk]

So will this be provided to us the next we have to send in our 2016/2017 macbook pro's for repair? I just got mine back from a repair just a few weeks ago.

Can't. The top case (battery, keyboard, trackpad, and upper aluminum housing) physically different to support the new larger batteries. Also, the components on the main board have been moved around to provide the extra space for the battery.

 

[vipergts2207]

I wonder if this will shut up all the naysayers claiming it was users ruining the keyboards. Probably not, Apple’s RDF is too strong.

 

[jdiamond]

So what happened with all that membrane is for making the keys quieter BS? Erbody and they momma knew it was for blocking particulate ingress. Quieter keys was just a fortunate consequence. Why all the subterfuge?

Supposedly admitting that would hurt Apple's position in the class lawsuits over the keyboard - if they fixed it, they must have known it was a problem.