Apple Confirms 2018 MacBook Pro Keyboard Has 'Membrane' to 'Prevent Debris From Entering the Butterfly Mechanism'

[pipis2010]

I think this just sh

In that case, I guess Apple is prepared to buy back the 2016 and 2017 models for 70-80% of what customers paid for them. People pay Apple's prices expecting to be treated right. It's totally unacceptable that the 2016 and 2017 laptops are lemons, and that they expect customers to continuously bring them in for repairs.

I think this just shows the form/factor over durability/quality road that Apple has taken lately. Yes, agreed, make everything thin, compact, light, etc., but don’t screw up the Apple quality of so many decades that made you who you are and put you at the top of the game compared to other crappy designs and products, especially since you keep charging an arm and a leg for all your products - I mean COME ON Apple WAKEY WAKEY!!!! Geez...

 

[jdiamond]

Let's see:

• Apple designed a faulty keyboard in order to make the MBP 0.01 mm thinner
• Apple denied the problem even as data and hard facts proved them otherwise
• Only after some class action lawsuits went public Apple launched a keyboard replacement program
• Apple replaces faulty 2016 and 2017 keyboards with the same old faulty designed keyboards that will fail again - it's just a matter of time
• Apple released a new MBP with a fixed keyboard. This keyboard won't be available to 2016/2017 MBP owners.
• If you want a working keyboard just spend another 2,400-7,000 USD to buy a new 2018 MBP but please don't do anything more than surfing the web, sending emails or writhing a letter. Otherwise your powerful 6-core MBP will start throttling down to 800 MHz.

Doesn't make the best impression to me

I love your emoticon! They should put that on the Apple Store fronts - the new face of the Apple Customer.

 

[dwaite]

...can't you just tell us that keyboards replaced with the current replacement program will come back with membrane covered keyboards? I think most of us would be fine with that.

That would be part of a recall of 3 years worth of laptops, which it appears they both don't want to do and do not feel they have to do. They are saying (paraphrasing) 'It is a manufacturing defect affecting a very small number of users, but a number of users have concerns so if you have any issue we will replace the keyboard for free'. They are standing behind the design of the 2nd generation keyboards.

People here are making the mental leap that apple improving the 3rd generation keyboard means they are admitting the 2nd generation is defective. That is no more accurate than the iPhone 8 being an admission that the iPhone 7 was defective. The narrative on this forum is that the keyboard has a design defect, but that is not a narrative Apple accepts.

 

[thealkimist]

We keep getting posts like these, so I'm going to call them out too: What's with all the Apple defenders on these forums? Apple makes flawed hardware, charges a fortune for it and we're not supposed to say anything?!

People complain because they're stuck with a lemon that gets fixed into another brand-new lemon.

It doesn't matter that Apple will replace their keyboards free of charge since they're replacing them with the same flawed part that will probably fail again in the future. Enjoy your brand-new, free of charge lemon! See you in another six months for another one!

And Apple will replace them again if they break again. Apple's offer to replace your keyboard for free is the best offer you can expect for a design that is flawed and is a tacit admission that the design if flawed. Stop b*tching.

This is not a defense of Apple, they f*cked up, but they're doing something different where most companies would rather charge the consumer for repairs.

 

[macpcf]

Don’t all models across the 2018 line have issue?

I think the i7 maintains the base clock speed atleast

 

[thealkimist]

Whoa. Apple is in the wrong here. They designed a dodgy keyboard and are replacing dodgy keyboards with new dodgy keyboards that are bound to break again on super expensive laptops. They then lie about their new keyboard, saying there is no problem with the old keyboard, when in reality they've put a fix in to alleviate the issue...

Did I ever negate the notion that Apple is in the wrong? Offering to replacing them for free is a tacit admission and it is good enough for a flawed design.

 

[Tozovac]

Here's a thought.

Regardless of whether we're talking a lower-end or $3000+ model, how many would opt for this if Apple offered customers $200 to transplant their MBP guts into a 1/8" thicker case with REAL keys, a real trackpad, more ports, and room for a larger battery and upgradeability. Turn lemon into lemonade, or a rotten apple into apple pie.

 

[thealkimist]

Are the 2018 keyboards covered by this offer? Apple could have garnered some goodwill if they'd extend that offer to these newer notebooks. Honestly, nobody knows the long term viability. That 'risk' should be borne by Apple.

And it might be a good assumption that Apple doesn't quite know either. Any new design of anything is subject to unknown risks - that is normal and it exists in the creation of new things all the time. At least Apple is offering to replace the known faults free of charge.

 

[dan110]

This won't go over well in the class action lawsuit. Plus, I predict it will cause long-term damage to their image and future product quality claims.

 

[thealkimist]

It's all part of Ive's evil plan, create a problem that didn't exist to fulfill his lifelong journey of thinness:

Weight is very much a problem with mobile products on the scale that is vastly larger than your own individual habits.

 

[dwaite]

IF the existence of a new, fixed model is admissible in/relevant to those cases, Apple aren't fooling anyone - the "secret" was never going to last beyond the first teardown article and comparison with Apple's patent filing for a membrane to prevent contaminant ingress.

Err, if the existence of a 3rd generation keyboard proves a design defect in the 2nd generation keyboard (vs just a generational improvement), then per that conspiracy theory Apple would just not release the 3rd generation keyboard. They would have shaved some weight off the top case and called it a day.

Their take is that the 2nd generation keyboards are just fine, and the 3rd generation is even better. But that doesn't change that they have to be careful about what they say on record due to multiple pending lawsuits.

No, I think its just that Apple doesn't want to remind the general public wandering into an Apple Store that there's a question over the keyboards...

Obviously their strategy there is to say the keyboard issue has affected a very small number of machines, but to alleviate concerns if a customer has an issue (even past the optional 3 year AppleCare) Apple will replace the keyboard for free.

 

[simonmet]

It's so great to see everyone b*tching about this when Apple offers to replace their keyboards free of charge. It inspires my love for humanity.

What about love for the environment:

"Apple has been moving in the direction of computers that can’t be repaired without major surgery for some time — a little over a year ago, one of the little rubber feet fell off my previous computer. I went into the Apple Store expecting a Genius to just stick on a replacement foot. It took two appointments and hours for a series of incredulous Geniuses to learn alongside me that Apple's only solution for this problem was to replace the entire bottom case"

Apple under Cook is in the business of planned obsolescence, cheapening and cost-cutting while upping the anti on marketing, spin, lawyers and executive bonuses.

 

[thealkimist]

What about love for the environment: https://theoutline.com/post/2402/the-new-macbook-keyboard-is-ruining-my-life?zd=2&zi=o6dlyjvh?

"Apple has been moving in the direction of computers that can’t be repaired without major surgery for some time — a little over a year ago, one of the little rubber feet fell off my previous computer. I went into the Apple Store expecting a Genius to just stick on a replacement foot. It took two appointments and hours for a series of incredulous Geniuses to learn alongside me that Apple's only solution for this problem was to replace the entire bottom case"

Apple under Cook is in the business of planned obsolescence, cheapening and cost-cutting while upping the anti on marketing, spin, lawyers and their bonuses.

LOL. What does this have to do my quote?

 

[dwaite]

Tearing the condom will result in ~800 repair bill. nice

Generally, a technician f*cking up doesn't result in the customer having to pay more money.

 

[pipis2010]

It's bad design if a single torn membrane results in replacing a top case.

For a company that supposedely is so environmentally friendly, such designs show the exact opposite, since you need to replace the whole top case instead of just few keys...

 

[jkatzman89]

In Apples documentation it says this. Try reading the article??

"Caution: The keyboard has a membrane under the keycaps to prevent debris from entering the butterfly mechanism. Be careful not to tear the membrane. A torn membrane will result in a top case replacement."

Thats point 1 of your rant sorted.

Apple's product engineering cycles are not that long, especially not for a small keyboard update. They have in the past done mid life cycle updates to fix issues with the machine they were selling.

Thats point 2 of your rant sorted.

Refunding is not enough, if they knew there was an issue, and they did, then they are fraudulently charging and people should be compensated.

The class action lawsuits will sort out the compensation issue. They allege fraudulent concealment and demand punitive damages.

Apple is accused of, among other things, violating California's Unfair Competition Law and Consumer Legal Remedies Act, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, the Song-Beverly Consumer Warranty Act, and breach of express warranty.

Thats point 3 of your rant sorted.

"Get a life, go find something else to complain about dawg. You need Jesus."

Erm yeah, you got angry at me for repeating my opinion of an ongoing legal issue and recommended Jesus.

I would recommend you don't turn to Jesus to solve your hardware issues.

You are a special kind of ridiculous, I'll tell ya that.

To level set on this, you haven't "sorted" squat. You have restated the same points you tried (and failed) to make in your original post.

As mentioned, the redesigned keyboard has two main purposes. One, to dampen the sound and travel of the keys. Two, to prevent dust and debris from entering the butterfly mechanism. Again, this isn't a lie. Apple has disclosed both of these reasons.

Product engineering cycles (at Apple or elsewhere) are absolutely that long, and you're uneducated for thinking that redesigned the top case of a computer, adding a silicon layer and whatever other adjustments they made is a "small keyboard update." It is safe to assume that in 2016 when the Touch Bar models released, Apple planned to use the same design for at least a few years without any changes (outside of processors, RAM, storage, and so on). Another example, Apple had relatively "small" battery and sleep/wake button issues with the iPhone 5. It took them scrapping that phone altogether and replacing it with the iPhone 5c the following year to truly resolve. To clarify, the scrapped and rebuilt a phone, which sped up the process, and it still took nearly a year.

Finally, no one is angry. I'm providing information on your ill-advised opinion. Interestingly, I do not require Jesus for my hardware issues as my 2017 MacBook Pro's keyboard work flawlessly and has since day one.

 

[technorganic]

Since MacBooks vent hot air through the keys this just makes the throttling issue worse. Will these membranes warp over time from heat? I bet we'll eventually see defective keys due to messed up membranes.

 

[Yvan256]

And Apple will replace them again if they break again. Apple's offer to replace your keyboard for free is the best offer you can expect for a design that is flawed and is a tacit admission that the design if flawed. Stop b*tching.

This is not a defense of Apple, they f*cked up, but they're doing something different where most companies would rather charge the consumer for repairs.

For the premium Apple are charging, I would expect nothing less than free repairs for design flaws. And the repairs may be free for now, but in four years if you're still using those laptops you'll be paying through the nose for the same repairs.

If I had bought one of those defective laptops, I'd ask for a refund because trying to resell one of those will be hard at best. You may say I have no rights to complain since I didn't buy one, but I was looking forward to the so-called "low cost MacBook Air replacement" laptop and it will probably have the same flawed butterfly keyboard. So I'll have to either buy an outdated MacBook Air or switch to Linux. The problem is, I don't want to switch, I want to keep using macOS!

 

[simonmet]

Tearing the condom will result in ~800 repair bill. nice

Still cheaper than a baby.

(I agree it's outrageous)

 

[Millah]

IHMO, Apple's main problem right now is Jony Ive himself. Without anyone to tell him "no", he's been making bad decisions after bad decisions.

As for "upgrade path", I didn't mean "upgrade the laptop" I meant future laptops. That's what "path" means. What am I going to buy once that 2015-2017 MacBook Air needs to be replaced? Will Apple have come back to its senses in 2027?

And yes, the Dell XPS seems to be a popular choice amongst Apple switchers*.

* it's so sad that this once meant something else.

How do you know? Perhaps Jony has been LESS involved in product design. We know that he certainly was when the campus was being built. And when did this style of MBP get designed?

Making statements about an iconic figure as if you are personally involved with him is quite presumptuous, don’t you think?

 

[Tozovac]

It's all part of Ive's evil plan, create a problem that didn't exist to fulfill his lifelong journey of thinness:

As with any good engineering evaluation, Ive should (but obviously does not) consider the extremes.

If each iteration's release must be thinner and less than the prior (including pixels - not the # of pixels but the different types, i.e., a pretty UIx that's full of intuitive UIx cues), what is the End that's in sight? Thinner until the awful arrives, i.e., a laser projected non-keyboard keyboard?

 

[Zq7r]

There are so many people here demanding that apple admit wrong doing with their keyboard. I don’t understand all this moral indignation. It is pathetic to be so fragile that you NEED an apology. All computer components will eventually fail, and keyboards are no different. Does anyone actually know the numbers? Did the failure rate of the keyboard go up a few percentage points or something actually significant? I suspect that a lot of this anecdotal evidence is being magnified by the vitriol people have for the feel of the butterfly switch. You have other options. If you dont like the butterfly switch buy any of the hundreds of other laptops that have a scissor switch. And if you purchased a macbook and the keyboard fails apple will fix it free of charge, i.e your life is not over.

 

[DjanSeriyAnaplian]

There are so many people here demanding that apple admit wrong doing with their keyboard. I don’t understand all this moral indignation. It is pathetic to be so fragile that you NEED an apology. All computer components will eventually fail, and keyboards are no different. Does anyone actually know the numbers? Did the failure rate of the keyboard go up a few percentage points or something actually significant? I suspect that a lot of this anecdotal evidence is being magnified by the vitriol people have for the feel of the butterfly switch. You have other options. If you dont like the butterfly switch buy any of the hundreds of other laptops that have a scissor switch. And if you purchased a macbook and the keyboard fails apple will fix it free of charge, i.e your life is not over.

I know dude, totally. My global tech company that has over $230 billion in the bank also instigates international repair programmes for a tiny, insignificant minority of users.

We do it all the time when presented with anecdotal evidence! That doesn't mean there's an actual problem, we just love creating repair programmes!

 

[thealkimist]

As with any good engineering evaluation, Ive should (but obviously does not) consider the extremes.

If each iteration's release must be thinner and less than the prior (including pixels - not the # of pixels but the different types, i.e., a pretty UIx that's full of intuitive UIx cues), what is the End that's in sight? Thinner until the awful arrives, i.e., a laser projected non-keyboard keyboard?

Jony Ive doesn't consider any extremes? You seem to know so much about their process so please enlighten us with your extensive knowledge about Ive and their design and engineering processes.

 

[bluecoast]

next version

Bring back the ZX Spectrum keyboard!

Good key travel (albeit pretty spongy) and Apple's silicone key solution could then be extended to comprise the whole key!

Keyboard replacement was pretty easy as you opened it up and then replaced the entire silicone key mould.

Joking of course, but I have a feeling that the next keyboard won't be too different from that (iPad Pro keyboard - evolved)