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Apple Delays Leopard Release

swingerofbirch said:
Let it be known now that I am an Apple enthusiast—not an Apple apologist.

Apple's hubris has again come back to bite it in the bum. The hubris of the Mac/PC ads, the hypocrisy of the ads that smashed Intel and then the ad showing how wonderful Intel was now that it's in a Mac, and now all the digs at Vista only to delay Leopard.

Even in their press release, they said they're sure they made the right decision! More hubris! It was mismanagement pure and simple. As a company grows you add infrastructure and employees! You don't pull people off a project you KNOW is going to sell (how could a Mac OS upgrade not be a good seller?)!

It's time to hold Apple's feet to the fire!

What fantasy world is Apple living in that we would understand their mismanagement as being some sort of genius "balance"? Good Lord!

My dad was just asking me about Leopard today and I assured him it was coming out in June. I even said something like they must be working awfully hard since it's still so buggy! Instead they were apparently working on a still non-existent phone!

Apple better stop making claims of being holier than thou until they get back on track! I say they pull all the Mac/PC ads because until they get this news out of the media the Mac/PC ads are only going to make Apple look like the weak whiny kid trying to deflect criticism.
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Nice post. Glad you posted it.
 
steve_hill4 said:
Okay then, how about nothing much beyond processors that wouldn't bump the prices up significantly. I can't see Apple slimming margins, so even if the machine supports more memory, Apple won't add much more without charging more too.
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They consumer line is already priced with head room... I really doubt we any upwards pricing. The fact is that the processors are generally dropping in price.
 
Apple stock fell 3% in just hours- their announcement was late this afternoon with only a couple hours of trading left. Wow.

Also, something tells me they are having some major problems with iPhone. I can't think of any other reason that they would anger Mac users, unless iPhone's on time release is seriously in jeopardy.

I hope for their sake iPhone is a winner. I am not so sure. Those with Treo's can do almost all of iPhone now- and even more if you are on a high speed network like Sprint. Surf faster, stream video/audio faster, google maps, mp3 player (including WMA/OGG support), video camera, email with push, touch screen (but also keyboard).... all available now. I think the touchscreen is going to be part of the iphone demise- it is TOUGH typing anything more than a few words on touch display- even with the smart keyboard features. Hell- even in the Steve demos, he made typos and was a slow typer on SMS.
 
zub3qin said:
Apple stock fell 3% in just hours- their announcement was late this afternoon with only a couple hours of trading left. Wow.

Also, something tells me they are having some major problems with iPhone. I can't think of any other reason that they would anger Mac users, unless iPhone's on time release is seriously in jeopardy.

I hope for their sake iPhone is a winner. I am not so sure. Those with Treo's can do almost all of iPhone now- and even more if you are on a high speed network like Sprint. Surf faster, stream video/audio faster, google maps, mp3 player (including WMA/OGG support), video camera, email with push, touch screen (but also keyboard).... all available now. I think the touchscreen is going to be part of the iphone demise- it is TOUGH typing anything more than a few words on touch display- even with the smart keyboard features. Hell- even in the Steve demos, he made typos and was a slow typer on SMS.
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I already own a Treo 650 and I don't see the need for the iPhone. Yes it do looks cool, yes it do has a nice HD in it...but can't I simply buy SD card and put it in my Treo? Of course...

It's beautiful, it's Apple, but I'm not sure a lot of people will get it.
 
Come on be positive people!
At least they've named a *month" for the release and not a season :)
I'm surprised they didn't say delayed until Fall 2007.
Despite the delay, it's unusual for Apple to be so forthcoming...
 
ktlx said:
We don't know that and we don't know how significant of a change it would be to replace the threading model in Tiger. It might be trivial, it might not be. We don't know what kind of corners were cut in Tiger since I think almost everyone expected Leopard would be out before the quad core CPUs arrived (this is a case where Apple's later than normal and Intel's earlier than expected). Either way I believe the exact same people who could do that are the exact people working frantically to get Leopard complete so a fix that only helps one machine for certain applications shouldn't be taken as a given.
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The fixes needed are conceptually simple, but in practice they take a lot of time for tinkering and experimenting. It isn't the threading model that needs changes; it is the kernel scheduler. FreeBSD added a new scheduler in 5.0 ( the original was still available), and by 5.4 they had DISCONTINUED THE NEW ONE because it was never able to work better or stably.

So while the scheduler is conceptually simple, it has impacts all over the place and is very hard to get right. I wouldn't be surprised the scheduler is the reason for the delay. Another possibility is that the scheduler changes are exposing threading bugs in the OS and applications that were previously undiscovered.
 
preinstalled leopard

so many people here are postponing a mac until it comes with leopard preinstalled. if they update the hardware this summer as was rumored, people can install leopard when it is ready. does a system run better with the preinstalled operating system or something?

i was really disappointed when i first read this, but if i get a computer as planned during the summer, is will just update to leopard when it is ready.

as great as it would be to have it running in june, i would rather be utterly impressed at how well it runs rather than be annoyed with all the bugs.

the one thing that does annoy me, if apple new they didn't have enough developers to make two operating systems, HIRE MORE DEVELOPERS! it is that simple.
 
shawnce said:
...out of a huge market is still a lot. Personally I think folks underestimate what Apple may pull off with the iPhone.
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They won't get more market than Treo's.

People are buying cellphones when they are 0$ with 3 yo contracts. No one will buy a 600$ phone except people like me or business people who NEEDS the Treo or something like it.

When RAZR were out, there wasn't many people that we're getting it. People waited and now it's 0$ everywhere and everyone got one.
 
swingerofbirch said:
Let it be known now that I am an Apple enthusiast—not an Apple apologist.

Apple's hubris has again come back to bite it in the bum. The hubris of the Mac/PC ads, the hypocrisy of the ads that smashed Intel and then the ad showing how wonderful Intel was now that it's in a Mac, and now all the digs at Vista only to delay Leopard.

Even in their press release, they said they're sure they made the right decision! More hubris! It was mismanagement pure and simple. As a company grows you add infrastructure and employees! You don't pull people off a project you KNOW is going to sell (how could a Mac OS upgrade not be a good seller?)!

It's time to hold Apple's feet to the fire!

What fantasy world is Apple living in that we would understand their mismanagement as being some sort of genius "balance"? Good Lord!

My dad was just asking me about Leopard today and I assured him it was coming out in June. I even said something like they must be working awfully hard since it's still so buggy! Instead they were apparently working on a still non-existent phone!

Apple better stop making claims of being holier than thou until they get back on track! I say they pull all the Mac/PC ads because until they get this news out of the media the Mac/PC ads are only going to make Apple look like the weak whiny kid trying to deflect criticism.
Click to expand...

Irish1978 said:
Though I understand that Apple would lose more money by delaying the iPhone, you would think that a company like Apple could hire some software engineering and QA resources specifically for the iPone and not have to steal from other divisions and roll both out on time...just my opinion.:mad:
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I TOTALLY AGREE!
 
shawnce said:
Folks can't separate marketing from reality? Folks need to keep context and relative scale in their heads...
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You're right, really you are, but the mac community embraces the counter-culture attitude, and now the company that put that notion in our heads is acting like the company they made fun of.

I see apple no differently than i see a person, because apple really is run by one person, steve jobs, and as such, he needs to be questioned when he acts hypocritically.
 
shawnce said:
It isn't trivial but they can take a baby step on Tiger that would improve efficiency on system with a high core count. It is in the realm of being feasible. Personally however I bet it will wait till Leopard.
Click to expand...

No, that is not possible. It is not that simple.

Actually I doubt kernel level folks (at least scheduler folks) are the key personnel being asked to work on the iPhone. It is more likely it is Cocoa framework, etc. folks.
Click to expand...

When you are talking about a new platform, anybody and everybody could be involved.
 
johnee said:
Wrong. When a company says it will deliver something, it needs to deliver.
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Apparently I need to repeat that there's a big difference between a few months, and 4 years (plus with most of the promised "big features" entirely missing). Also, I need to remind people that Apple originally said, when Tiger was released, that they were going to slow down the OS X upgrade cycle by a lot. In fact the "early 2007" date for 10.5 was too soon, and seen by some as a move just to have an OS X upgrade around the same time as Vista. This is more in line with original expectations for 10.5's release...whether the iPhone excuse has any truth isn't really that relevant.

--Eric
 
Apple timing- for cynics.

StuPidQPid said:
Come on be positive people!
At least they've named a *month" for the release and not a season :)
I'm surprised they didn't say delayed until 'Fall 2007.
Despite the delay, it's unusual for Apple to be so forthcoming...
Click to expand...

Hate to be a cynic, but I know a little something about PR and the concept of news cycles. Apple has known about this for some time. They needed to get this out a bit under the radar. When is the best time to release bad news? On a busy news day. Anything on the news 24/7 in the last 3 days?
 
This has been an interesting thread to read.

While looking forward to Leopard and wish that it were being released sooner, I would much rather have a good stable version. This is a short release delay -- nothing like Windows delayed releases which some have likened this too.

The iPhone is important for Apple. It makes sense they would put resources behind it to ensure it's on time release.

So Apple delays Leopard's release by 3-4 months to ensure that a new product is released on time. Makes sense to me.
 
dante@sisna.com said:
Amen, Stop the Whining.

Personally, I'm glad Apple is focusing on making the iPhone a Killer device. The iPhone will insure another decade of fantastic OS X versions.

This is a SMART business decision.
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Depends on who your talking to. It is fantastic for 8th graders with parents that buy them an iPhone. It's not so fantastic for Mac users. If the iPhone is a success it may just be even worse for the Mac and would encourage them to delve into even more obscure markets, splitting resources up even more. Not a good thing for me.
 
koobcamuk said:
Calm down! Crikey. :eek:

Moaning gets us nowhere, so let's all shut up.
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I'm not moaning. Hell I'm not complaining about the price point either. In point of fact I expect my MS settlement check, for the sum of $114, any day now. http://www.microsoftminnesotasettlement.com/

My point is people keep throwing out the student discount as if its a blanket discount for everyone, when it isn't.
 
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