Apple Design Chief Jony Ive: iPhone X Will 'Change and Evolve' Over Time

[Donoban]

I welcome differing opinions. I am just not seeing much of that here. Just a ton of noise and kneejerk “first” comments that are exceedingly shallow and superficial.

Look at the first six pages of comments in this thread. Tell me with a straight face that is the epitome of the sort of intelligent, rational critical analysis you want to promote and encourage.

Lolz. Good point.

I got in early and did exactly what you said.

Remember the Apple that put out the Newton, the Cube, that TV Mac thingy... yeah bad ideas, but we had some great products as a result of those efforts.

Apple today is so big they fear making a mistake... I don't think we will see anything radical from Apple until Cook moves on.

I give you a Blue Tooth Speaker and a faster iMac (in any colour as long as it's black)... my good sir.

 

[convergent]

I welcome differing opinions. I am just not seeing much of that here. Just a ton of noise and kneejerk “first” comments that are exceedingly shallow and superficial.

Look at the first six pages of comments in this thread. Tell me with a straight face that is the epitome of the sort of intelligent, rational critical analysis you want to promote and encourage.

OK... sorry that I misinterpreted what you were saying. I think that any popular forum is going to bring out a certain bit of nonsense just because the online discourse is like that these days. I think this place is quite civil compared to the unmoderated comments on blogs, news sites, etc.. You have to also be honest that sometimes the nonsense is entertaining, for a variety of reasons. I've made a few responses that might cross the line of good discussion. Its usually in response to things that strike me as ridiculous. But in general, the reason I spend time here is that there is good discussion about differences between the products, help on issues, tips, etc.., and I try to contribute to that.

Suffice it to say by my posts in this thread, I really am not a fan of any of the current leadership at Apple, most especially Jony Ive.

 

[Abazigal]

Lolz. Good point.

I got in early and did exactly what you said.

Remember the Apple that put out the Newton, the Cube, that TV Mac thingy... yeah bad ideas, but we had some great products as a result of those efforts.

Apple today is so big they fear making a mistake... I don't think we will see anything radical from Apple until Cook moves on.

I give you a Blue Tooth Speaker and a faster iMac (in any colour as long as it's black)... my good sir.

I was always curious as to how Apple at the top of their game might compete.

I guess it was always inevitable that Apple would become a larger, more normal company. Not saying it’s necessarily a bad thing. They have a ton of resources at their disposal, and still have the design chops needed to make great products.

It will be more of a slow burn, where Apple keeps throwing money at a people until it goes away (like how the Apple Watch is only starting to see success after three years). Which means without Steve's guidance, Apple may take a little longer to get to where they need to go, and make many more mistakes and stumbles along the way, but they will still get there nevertheless.

I believe Apple will still stay successful and profitable for many years to come. But I also feel that the old guard has to realise and accept that the Apple as they know it is disappearing, and learn to let go and stop sounding like crotchety old men.

 

[convergent]

I’d rather have bezels than that ugly-ass notch and two ears either side.

Enjoy your notch, I’ll keep enjoying the ability to watch videos without having to resize them.
[doublepost=1510420202][/doublepost]

Course they wouldn’t, they’d just buy the ‘latest and greatest’ and look back on the X with its notch and laugh. See, most X owners think the sun shines out of its arse, so they’ll never admit that the notch is bad design. Hell, Apple could make the notch bigger and they’ll all claim they ‘don’t even see it’. Most are just trying to justify their $999+ purchase.
[doublepost=1510420272][/doublepost]*Sits quietly waiting for the triggered X fanboys*

This is so true for a lot of X owners. They will never admit its a bad design and keep searching for ways to spin it. If Apple made it take 1/3 of the screen they would justify it. If they got rid of it they would say that was better.

The best two spins I've heard on here are...

- when in a waiting room or on the train, everyone will know you have the latest Apple flagship and that is worth a ton.
- it's not actually taking space away, the ears are adding space.

Both are silly justifications for a bad design.

 

[Tozovac]

I started a poll, i’d love to gather some votes from this thread grouping of enthusiasts!

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/poll-no-notch-or-more-ui-cues.2087582/

 

[UL2RA]

I got my 6S, you know what else I’m enjoying? An extra £1k in my pocket. You know what I’m missing? A slightly nicer display and some animated emojis I’ll never use. Sounds good to me.

It's not a slightly nicer display. I finally got a chance to see the X in person and the display is insanely gorgeous.

 

[6803390]

It's not a slightly nicer display. I finally got a chance to see the X in person and the display is insanely gorgeous.

Watching movies / playing games with that notch is insanely gorgeous?

 

[oldwatery]

He should change and evolve! He's so stale it is silly.
[doublepost=1510457532][/doublepost]

oh, those iPhone 8 owners = haters LOL
I don't even see that notch at all on my iPhone X. Keep telling that to yourself while enjoying your 2014 bezels haha

Wow...you have a 2017 bezel That is SO amazing....now I'll get on with my life. I guess you're still waiting to get one of those!

 

[convergent]

Watching movies / playing games with that notch is insanely gorgeous?

Some of these folks will never admit anything wrong with the notch.

 

[Abazigal]

Some of these folks will never admit anything wrong with the notch.

Let me introduce you to a little concept called cognitive dissonance.

— I think the notch is stupid.
— People are loving the notch.
— I’m not stupid so…
— People love the notch must be stupid!

Is it so hard to admit that the notch isn't as bad as the critics are making it out to be, and that Apple actually made good here?

 

[anthorumor]

Jony Ive 2 will be slimmer.

 

[Regime2008]

Let me introduce you to a little concept called cognitive dissonance.

— I think the notch is stupid.
— People are loving the notch.
— I’m not stupid so…
— People love the notch must be stupid!

Is it so hard to admit that the notch isn't as bad as the critics are making it out to be, and that Apple actually made good here?

Apple made good here?! I am sorry, but I cannot seem to grasp the idea of something PROTRUDING into my display, no matter how big nor small: as being something considered GOOD. You can argue that its not protruding, all day if you want to, and that it has ears extending from the display BS. When those OLED displays were cut, they were cut to a 19.5:9 ratio, and the notch area was REMOVED from the display. The displays were NOT cut into a 18.5:9 ratio, with glued on ears to extend the display around the notch. If you believe the latter is how the display was manufactured, then I don't know what to say.

If the notch was so amazing and iconic, there would not be so many people flocking to make apps or wallpapers to disguise the notch. The notch was Apples way of trying to be different while using the word magical and many fell for it.

Wonder if the iPX Plus's notch will scale to its larger size. That would be a taking a step back in my eyes, but to you, it would be remarkable.

 

[Abazigal]

Apple made good here?! I am sorry, but I cannot seem to grasp the idea of something PROTRUDING into my display, no matter how big nor small: as being something considered GOOD. You can argue that its not protruding, all day if you want to, and that it has ears extending from the display BS. When those OLED displays were cut, they were cut to a 19.5:9 ratio, and the notch area was REMOVED from the display. The displays were NOT cut into a 18.5:9 ratio, with glued on ears to extend the display around the notch. If you believe the latter is how the display was manufactured, then I don't know what to say.

If the notch was so amazing and iconic, there would not be so many people flocking to make apps or wallpapers to disguise the notch. The notch was Apples way of trying to be different while using the word magical and many fell for it.

Wonder if the iPX Plus's notch will scale to its larger size. That would be a taking a step back in my eyes, but to you, it would be remarkable.

Let me put it this way.

It’s okay for a phone like the S8 to have two black bezels on the top and bottom of the phone, but not okay for the iPhone to do away with those bezels, with the caveat that you have a cutout to accommodate the front camera?

However I look at it, I am not being disadvantaged in any way compared to a 16:9 display. If you don’t like the notch interfering with video in landscape mode, then simply watch it in 16:9 aspect ratio. The crux here is that you are getting extra screen, not having it taken away from you.

As with anything radical that Apple does, it always takes time for people’s minds to wrap around these changes and come round to it. And people eventually will.

I guess Apple will just have to stay misunderstood that little bit longer.

 

[Regime2008]

Let me put it this way.

It’s okay for a phone like the S8 to have two black bezels on the top and bottom of the phone, but not okay for the iPhone to do away with those bezels, with the caveat that you have a cutout to accommodate the front camera?

However I look at it, I am not being disadvantaged in any way compared to a 16:9 display. If you don’t like the notch interfering with video in landscape mode, then simply watch it in 16:9 aspect ratio. The crux here is that you are getting extra screen, not having it taken away from you.

As with anything radical that Apple does, it always takes time for people’s minds to wrap around these changes and come round to it. And people eventually will.

I guess Apple will just have to stay misunderstood that little bit longer.

I use an ultrawide monitor. Its a 21:9 aspect ratio. I can fit any, and everything on my screen. As matter a fact a could put two web pages, side by side, and still have screen estate. I could even have a third window open, and it wouldn't feel cramped. Now if I were to watch a video on YouTube (mostly 16:9 content) I get black bars on both sides of my monitor. Movies on the other hand look gorgeous, as they are filmed in a similar aspect ratio as my monitor.

The Pixel/XL 2, Samsung S/N8, Lg v30, iPX all have a similar aspect ratios to my monitor, but not as wide (tall on a phone). But which of these would movies look the best on our of those devices? Better yet, which would NOT look good for movies? The iPX of course. Because it looks like someone's thumb is holding the screen, at all times. Not just in movies, but it looks like that, all the time. Webpages, games, home screen, everything except when the screen is off.

Nobody in their right mind is going to appreciate the notch, until every display has a notch as well. For all of the people who love the notch, would you like there to be a eyesore-notch on your tv, monitor, watch, billboards, theatre screens, etc?

 

[Abazigal]

I use an ultrawide monitor. Its a 21:9 aspect ratio. I can fit any, and everything on my screen. As matter a fact a could put two web pages, side by side, and still have screen estate. I could even have a third window open, and it wouldn't feel cramped. Now if I were to watch a video on YouTube (mostly 16:9 content) I get black bars on both sides of my monitor. Movies on the other hand look gorgeous, as they are filmed in a similar aspect ratio as my monitor.

The Pixel/XL 2, Samsung S/N8, Lg v30, iPX all have a similar aspect ratios. But which would movies look the best on our of those devices? Better yet, which would NOT look good for movies? The iPX of course. Because it looks like someone's thumb is holding the screen, at all times. Not just in movies, but it looks like that, all the time. Webpages, games, home screen, everything except when the screen is off.

Nobody in their right mind is going to appreciate the notch, until every display has a notch as well. For all of the people who love the notch, would you like there to be a eyesore-notch on your tv, monitor, watch, billboards, theatre screens, etc?

So what’s your solution?

To have a top and bottom bezel?

How is that any better?

 

[Regime2008]

So what’s your solution?

To have a top and bottom bezel?

How is that any better?

How's it any worse? Let's see:
1) It's more prevelant to sustaining damage vs a phone with a slightly larger top and bottom bezel.
2) You can't hold it as comfortable as a device with a small chin and forehead (hence my first point as it will be more prone to damage)
3) The cutout of the display is a joke. All of that could be hid behind a uniform forehead.

My answer to your question is simple: there is no solution to the notch. You can't solve a problem that Apple deems as "good design". You just have to deal with it, as they don't provide options.

 

[abrahamw88]

Doesn’t every iPhone get better when a new iOS is released.. every twelve months?

 

[convergent]

Let me introduce you to a little concept called cognitive dissonance.

— I think the notch is stupid.
— People are loving the notch.
— I’m not stupid so…
— People love the notch must be stupid!

Is it so hard to admit that the notch isn't as bad as the critics are making it out to be, and that Apple actually made good here?

I never said anyone is stupid. I've been on MR for many years and owned many Apple products. What I've found to be true is that some people will justify anything Apple does and spin it as brilliant, no matter what it is. What Apple does is not always brilliant and their designs are not always good. If there was no notch on the X, and Google put a notch on their phone, the same people would be calling the notch stupid.

 

[Abazigal]

How's it any worse? Let's see:
1) It's more prevelant to sustaining damage vs a phone with a slightly larger top and bottom bezel.
2) You can't hold it as comfortable as a device with a small chin and forehead (hence my first point as it will be more prone to damage)
3) The cutout of the display is a joke. All of that could be hid behind a uniform forehead.

My answer to your question is simple: there is no solution to the notch. You can't solve a problem that Apple deems as "good design". You just have to deal with it, as they don't provide options.

There are basically two options. Pick your poison.

From what I can gather, the iPhone has the best bottom bezel by far, way less than the other two phones, while the Galaxy S8 has the best side bezels, with the iPhone X having the largest by far.

The iPhone and Essential phones have smaller top bezels than the Galaxy, but they also have notches to fit their cameras. The Galaxy S8 either has the smallest bezel if you go with the bezels, but the iPhone and Essential phones get more screen up there, and are far smaller at their smallest points.

Basically, the Essential phone wins if you are fine with notches and the Galaxy S8 wins if you can’t stand notches. The iPhone gets a much larger notch to accommodate Face ID, so I group it together with the essential.

We will have to agree to disagree, and I stand by my assertion that Apple's implementation still feels the “most pure” so far. Samsung went the safe route while Essential kinda screwed up with the large asymmetric chin.

 

[MrGuder]

I feel it would have looked better if apple had designed a very small bezel at the top straight across for the Face Id area. The screen still would be large enough that it wouldn't matter.

I personally don't like the notch/ears it breaks up the flow of such a really nice display. Then there's the fact that they took away features like the battery % because they now don't have space for it. A smaller bezel at the top could have prevented that. The design of that notch is one time that Apple thinking outside the box was a bad idea.

 

[rockarollr]

Shouldn't that be 12.4? Its taking Apple now about a half dozen attempts at a release to get whatever they intended to work right. I've used Apple stuff for a long time and they seem to be getting worse and worse at this.

Steve isn't there to crack the whip any more. And it shows.

 

[Regime2008]

There are basically two options. Pick your poison.

From what I can gather, the iPhone has the best bottom bezel by far, way less than the other two phones, while the Galaxy S8 has the best side bezels, with the iPhone X having the largest by far.

The iPhone and Essential phones have smaller top bezels than the Galaxy, but they also have notches to fit their cameras. The Galaxy S8 either has the smallest bezel if you go with the bezels, but the iPhone and Essential phones get more screen up there, and are far smaller at their smallest points.

Basically, the Essential phone wins if you are fine with notches and the Galaxy S8 wins if you can’t stand notches. The iPhone gets a much larger notch to accommodate Face ID, so I group it together with the essential.

We will have to agree to disagree, and I stand by my assertion that Apple's implementation still feels the “most pure” so far. Samsung went the safe route while Essential kinda screwed up with the large asymmetric chin.

Personally, I like the Galaxy design the most out of those 3 choices. There is no display appealing to me, that has a cutout. Not on android, not on ios. Apple could have remedied themselves from all the ridicule by one of the last 2 choices.

But instead its fans are easily wowed, over silly things.

 

[kdarling]

There is no display appealing to me, that has a cutout. Not on android, not on ios. Apple could have remedied themselves from all the ridicule by one of the last 2 choices.

I think that if Apple had simply always made the status sections black to go with the bezel, and never extended the main display onto the ears, then they would not have been an aesthetic issue with anyone.

 

[Regime2008]

I think that if Apple had simply always made the status sections black to go with the bezel, and never extended the main display onto the ears, then they would not have been an aesthetic issue with anyone.

Which is definitely an option. It doesn't even have to be bezels. But they want the notch to stand out. Which doesn't not equate to good design language.

 

[UL2RA]

Let me introduce you to a little concept called cognitive dissonance.

— I think the notch is stupid.
— People are loving the notch.
— I’m not stupid so…
— People love the notch must be stupid!

Is it so hard to admit that the notch isn't as bad as the critics are making it out to be, and that Apple actually made good here?

After seeing the X in person, the notch isn't bothersome at all, which I found surprising. The display is a bit long though. I wish it were closer to a square like the 8+ model.