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LOL this just goes to show even with a new campus and the supposed "Best and Brightest" Silicon Valley has to offer they still can't seem to push the envelope.

I guess Apple still has lot's of growing pains to work through. I really hope nothing happens to Ive in the near future otherwise Apple won't have much left.

At the end of the day Tim Cook is very much an excel spreadsheet by the numbers guy. To truly innovate you have to do things that don't make sense to anyone except the one with the vision. I'd rather see Apple try really hard make a few mistakes and at least 1 exciting product than keep playing it safe.
FaceID pushes the envelope. It’s really good but it’s really different. It’s going to do way more than just unlock your phone, too.

Apple makes the best mobile silicon by FAR in the industry.

Tim Cook is doing a fantastic job.
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Totally agree here. Sounds like the camera bump requires new tech or a thicker phone. The easy solution is a thicker phone, considering you could increase your battery size to blow away the competition.

The notch definitely needs to go. If it means getting rid of faceID, so be it. No one was screaming for faceID before it arrived, and they decided to add it right when they were going full phone/screen...just crazy. Why not minimize the sensors as much as possible (instead of adding to them), and go for under the glass touchid???? They are very vocally claiming now that that was never a possibility, but if not, why not? They pulled a Microsoft--see the Kinect--where they got invested in a tech advance few cared about, and sacrificed the overall product and aesthetics to do it. Just crazy, and unApple.

Antennae can easily be made far less prominent and nearly hidden altogether. Now, I would much rather have better functionality, so if the distinct lines give me better reception and speed, then maybe they're ok. I don't have nearly the issue I do with the camera and notch.
My guess is the camera bump has everything to do with the anticipation of a case. Ever take a picture with a case on a phone with a flush camera? The case actually creates a shadow around the camera and messes up the image in many cases.

FaceID isn’t going anywhere. It’s not just about validating your phone. Apple and every other good company doesn’t look to its market for tech ideas. People don’t know what they want. Did we ask for an iPhone?

FaceID is fantastic and will only get better. The “notch” is actually extra real estate and is now a design element that is Apple exclusive. No more, “what phone is that?” Love it or hate it, I think Apple will promote the notch for at least the next 3 years until they figure out something else. You don’t even notice is when using the phone for more than a day.
 
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You may know more about this than I: was Forstall a problem-starter and difficult to work with, or was it more Jony Ive didn’t want to work with him, and Jony won that battle?
I don't it was just Ive. Manfeld any many other executives couldn't stand him as well, so it ultimately came down to his personality. Scott was undeniably an asset, very much like the Hulk can be an asset, but there's a reason why you don't see the hulk featured in many marvel films. He's just more trouble than he's worth most of the time.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...onflict-with-execs-jubilation-from-employees/

Tim Cook was reportedly very big on the whole collaborative aspect for Apple, and I guess Scott just didn't fit in. This is my own impression based on analysis from bloggers such as John Gruber, and what I have read so far. I have no idea who really started all this, but I don't it matters at the end of the day. Tim Cook's ultimatum was clear - either you play nice with the rest or get packing, and Scott chose the latter.
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Totally agree here. Sounds like the camera bump requires new tech or a thicker phone. The easy solution is a thicker phone, considering you could increase your battery size to blow away the competition.
And a thicker phone is harder to hold, plus a larger battery also means a heavier phone. Definitely not free of tradeoffs, and I don't think it's one you get to make on behalf of everyone else.

The notch definitely needs to go. If it means getting rid of faceID, so be it. No one was screaming for faceID before it arrived, and they decided to add it right when they were going full phone/screen...just crazy. Why not minimize the sensors as much as possible (instead of adding to them), and go for under the glass touchid???? They are very vocally claiming now that that was never a possibility, but if not, why not? They pulled a Microsoft--see the Kinect--where they got invested in a tech advance few cared about, and sacrificed the overall product and aesthetics to do it. Just crazy, and unApple.
The notch feels very uniquely Apple.

I think people misinterpret FaceID. The idea is that it blurs the perception of needing authentication at all to unlock your phone. I think what Apple was going for was using FaceID to take care of all the security stuff behind the scenes so you don't have too. It removes having to think about authenticating to access something because faceID has already detected that it is you. What you're left with is a phone that is as easy to access as one without a passcode. No longer do you have to go through security checks because it is all done automatically. It seems pretty seamless when it works, but we're still in V1.

Apple is the kind of company to ditch something when the replacement is good enough but will be much better in a few years. They probably could have done under-the-screen Touch-ID, but it was a direct decision not to so that people didn’t enable faceID and used a worse touchID because of familiarity. Apple is the kind of company that would ditch something so users have less choice, but possibly (in their opinion) a better experience.

That is what makes Apple so polarizing. They aim for product experience often times at the sacrifice of user choice. And if their idea of what you want in a product matches yours, then it is full of secret magic and delight. And if not, it can be frustration, like jogging through quicksand.

Like I said, uniquely Apple. It doesn't mean they are losing the plot. It just means they choose to see things in a very unorthodox manner that most people wouldn't.
 
Yes. Why not? Unlike USB-A, HDMI, etc, it’s as thin as USB-C and a similar shape. Not to mention it’s not a port, it’s a slot, and unique in that sense. USB-C replacing it will be a long way off and SD cards will still be in use. Even if you don’t use an SD card slot, you could use it for storage expansion. There is no reason why it shouldn’t be there. If you’re a blind Apple fanboy that will say they’re right in every decision then there’s no arguing with you but I would have thought you’d see that what the move has done is make people buy adapters to plug in their stuff, not always buy new stuff. It’s the case for most consumers.
 
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What choice do many of us have? iOS, even with its many flaws compared to pre-iOS 7, is still better than Android to us. Not saying that as an automatic fanboy throwaway insult to android, just stating my feelings that android from the very start was full of attempts to be similar to (but not duplicate) iOS, where iOS clearly had the best way of doing things. Then iOS 7 pulled an android, choosing to be different from the best-in-clas Apple UI just to be different. Even with its flaws, it’s still better than android, so that’s why we still buy.

My 2014 MacBook Air is happily still with mavericks, but even if I were forced against my will to “upgrade” to Sierra and its Fisher Price UI that’s truly painful to look at, i’d still consider it better than windows, even windows 10. Currently, that’s why many of us still buy Apple.
That doesn't really answer the question I asked. The answer is: Apple has ZERO incentive to do anything differently.

If anyone believes that they have no choice but to stay with Apple then their complaints are worthless. Apple does not make substantive changes because locked-in...errr... faithful customers complain. From Apple's perspective, if people keep handing over their cash (in record-setting numbers) to Apple while complaining, the conclusion they'll draw is that those are not substantive complaints but nothing more than emotional whining which they'll "get over".

Apple is a company. The thing they listen to more than anything else is... sales numbers.

Case in point... removal of the headphone jack on the iPhone. Lots of harrumphing, complaining, and whining about the removal. After all of the emotions settled down, the iPhone 7/7+ sold in record numbers, and the lack of a headphone jack in the iPhone X isn't even mentioned in reviews (at least the ones that I read/saw).

For me, a headphone jack is a priority. Since Apple isn't bringing it back, my current iPhone SE will be the last iPhone that I own. (unless my need for a headphone jack changes) I'm not angry about it. It's just what it is. I am heavily invested in Apple gear in my home... not because of the logo, but because they serve my purposes better than the alternatives, making them worth the higher prices. That is quickly changing for me and as individual devices need to be replaced, I'm finding alternatives that suit my needs just as well and in many cases, better.

Sometimes it is due to the newer Apple products not being suitable or of value. Sometimes it is because of what I need for that particular device to do, changes.

What I have found is if I simply list the things that I do and how I do them, then the conclusion I draw is that what I have works best than everything else out there. (that is because I've optimized my tasks for the tools at hand). But if I take a step back and look at WHAT I need to do (not HOW), I find that there are actually alternatives out there. Sometimes better, sometimes the same but done differently.

This is simply employing what used to be Apple's motto... "Think Different." :)
edit: fixed the quote
 
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I personally wouldn't go so far as to call it "crap" (anymore) but that's when a chasm of usability issues was opened that had long been solved by Apple. Never in a million years prior to that would I have believed that they would get rid of visually identifiable buttons and other interactive UI elements (now slowly returning), introduce tons of contrast issues, make fonts sometimes literally unreadable and icons barely identifiable at first glance, use gaudy color schemes bordering on the repugnant, all clad in huge amounts of blur etc.

To be fair, I feel like iOS 11 has been hugely improved over iOS 7 in all of these respects.

View attachment 741158 View attachment 741159

Good post. Hugely improved since ios7, yes. Best it can be (or has ever been)? Still unfortunately no. Just like how I almost always have issues with pressing “play” and “speaker” when playing a voicemail message in ios7-11 because the commands to enable those are just way, way too small and close to each other (can’t even call the speaker button a button because it’s one of those stupid tiny text-to-enable “buttons” that can also be too easily confused with information-only text), I very often have issues even on my iPad with the 3 commands for play, rewind back, and jump ahead in the new and “improved” ios 11 control center. Way too frequently I can’t hit the target successfully the 1st time because they’re so damn small and/or I trigger the wrong command because they’re so damn close together. Super poorly-thought out functionality that is the hallmark of today’s Apple, once again, and surely the precursor to yet another complete re-imagination by Apple in eight months instead of employing the right priorities and resources to get it nearly right the first time, which was the hallmark of the pre-2013 Apple.
 
You are correct, not always, but often they are know beforehand

I wouldn't go that far. I'd say 'occasionally'. Any software provider that knowingly ships software with an internally known major flaw deserves to be put completely out of business. And while software testing (QA) can't test for *everything*, there are some areas that *should* get focus: Does it relax security anywhere, does it allow for the increase in priority, or promotion of users or processes started by or for users. Having 'magic' access to 'root' is like having no doors, windows, or walls on your house! It's not a 'minor' issue. It's good that someone found that quickly, but if it was exploited, we will likely never know.

My AW3 freaked me out this morning requesting a software update. On a Sunday. I don't know when it was actually released, but to me, such requests speak of panic to cover something that should have been addressed in the development process.

There are those that will be thinking that this 'flaw' was an attempt to provide a backdoor to macOS systems. And on a tangential note, that is the problem with 'back doors'. It's hard to hide them, and once found and broadcasted enough should be fixed. But I'm waxing philosophical on a Sunday morning waiting for my AW3 to finish its panicked update.

Cheers...
 
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No matter what Samsung implements it still won't be as good as apples solution. Even Kuo says apple has a two-year lead and if he is the gospel on leaks to some, he should be the gospel on other items as well. Right?
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Well your opinion. But seems he will now be more entrenched than ever in design decisions. BTW Ives doesn't think he an amazing designer. Tim Cook, mgmt and the board thinks he is. Otherwise he would be out of a job.

(His Leica M fetched $1.8M. Ok, you might not be a fan of that design, but someone was)
You don't know wjether it will be better or not before the fact.

Kuo said FaceID has a 2 year lead over competing facial recognition solutions. Not biometrics. Iris scanning is not facial recognition.
 
The same thing in this context because facial recognition replaces biometrics.
He was talking about the TrueDepth camera which will take 2 years to copy. I am sure there will be manufacturers who will try to copy this but I don't think Samsung or Google are interested in this.
 
He was talking about the TrueDepth camera which will take 2 years to copy. I am sure there will be manufacturers who will try to copy this but I don't think Samsung or Google are interested in this.
But to that point, why does apple need 5 types of biometrics if facial recognition is replacing all of them?
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That doesn't really answer the question I asked. The answer is: Apple has ZERO incentive to do anything differently.

If anyone believes that they have no choice but to stay with Apple then their complaints are worthless. Apple does not make substantive changes because locked-in...errr... faithful customers complain. From Apple's perspective, if people keep handing over their cash (in record-setting numbers) to Apple while complaining, the conclusion they'll draw is that those are not substantive complaints but nothing more than emotional whining which they'll "get over".
...
"Think Different."
Edited out parts of the quote. Most of what is written, imo, is a gross oversimplification of the internal processes they go through and how something goes from idea to implementation to customer. They do not have a bean-counter, similar to Scrooge, counting the cash and making the decisions. I'm not even going to put forth my own view of apples processes, because I can only guess. And those guesses might include social media harvesting, internal design thinking sessions, focus sessions, and the like.

Apple still does, "think different". However, those who are no longer happy with the companies products and/or directions can choose from a plethora of competition. Nothing wrong with moving on, people have their own reasons for it.
 
Edited out parts of the quote. Most of what is written, imo, is a gross oversimplification of the internal processes they go through and how something goes from idea to implementation to customer. They do not have a bean-counter, similar to Scrooge, counting the cash and making the decisions. I'm not even going to put forth my own view of apples processes, because I can only guess. And those guesses might include social media harvesting, internal design thinking sessions, focus sessions, and the like.

Apple still does, "think different". However, those who are no longer happy with the companies products and/or directions can choose from a plethora of competition. Nothing wrong with moving on, people have their own reasons for it.
Gross oversimplification? A thorough explanation of the dynamics at work wouldn't change the conclusion... "money talks". You are free to believe that "social media harvesting", "focus sessions", internal design thinking sessions" DO NOT have corporate profits as a primary goal.
 
Gross oversimplification? A thorough explanation of the dynamics at work wouldn't change the conclusion... "money talks". You are free to believe that "social media harvesting", "focus sessions", internal design thinking sessions" DO NOT have corporate profits as a primary goal.
And by the same token you are free to believe the corporate goal of apple is "profit first". However, if you are familiar with any of the ideas of some of the well-known economists, their view of "profit first" companies are doomed to failure. Something that many believe once Tim Cook took over apple would be headed to the junkyard. And obviously far from it at this point.

So my educated guess is the apple is not a "profit first" company.
 
FaceID is fantastic and will only get better. The “notch” is actually extra real estate and is now a design element that is Apple exclusive. No more, “what phone is that?” Love it or hate it, I think Apple will promote the notch for at least the next 3 years until they figure out something else. You don’t even notice is when using the phone for more than a day.

I get why the "notch" is there, but calling it "a design element" sounds to me as someone is too far into Apple apologist country. We can agree that current technology does not allow for it to be hidden under the screen, but this shows Apple playing catch-up with the likes of Samsung and Essential (which is more or less a prototype) with regards to edge-to-edge displays, just like they did with the size when the Plus came about. And I've had an X for a while, I still notice the notch, it depends on what you want to do, in landscape You really see what an annoying design element it can be.

...not to mention the rounded corners...
 
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I get why the "notch" is there, but calling it "a design element" sounds to me as someone is too far into Apple apologist country. We can agree that current technology does not allow for it to be hidden under the screen, but this shows Apple playing catch-up with the likes of Samsung and Essential (which is more or less a prototype) with regards to edge-to-edge displays, just like they did with the size when the Plus came about. And I've had an X for a while, I still notice the notch, it depends on what you want to do, in landscape You really see what an annoying design element it can be.

...not to mention the rounded corners...

No, calling it a good design element would be apologist. When I called it a design element, and I’m forgetting when I said that, I was likely talking about the idea of it being a conscious choice.

Something they chose early on.

The notch is something that, as I said, allows their phone to have something unique that sets it apart. Imagine if they just went with the normal top and bottom bezel instead of a notch.

Is that an S8 or an iPhone X in that case?

I don’t think they wanted to put it under the glass and I don’t think they will. There’s a reason why they’re pushing to change how CSS is works and it’s because the notch.
 
And by the same token you are free to believe the corporate goal of apple is "profit first". However, if you are familiar with any of the ideas of some of the well-known economists, their view of "profit first" companies are doomed to failure. Something that many believe once Tim Cook took over apple would be headed to the junkyard. And obviously far from it at this point.

So my educated guess is the apple is not a "profit first" company.

If there is one company who subscribes to profit first at any cost on this planet, the first thought is Apple. You need only look at their product line to see this.
 
No, calling it a good design element would be apologist. When I called it a design element, and I’m forgetting when I said that, I was likely talking about the idea of it being a conscious choice.

Something they chose early on.

The notch is something that, as I said, allows their phone to have something unique that sets it apart. Imagine if they just went with the normal top and bottom bezel instead of a notch.

Is that an S8 or an iPhone X in that case?

I don’t think they wanted to put it under the glass and I don’t think they will. There’s a reason why they’re pushing to change how CSS is works and it’s because the notch.

A design element is there to create the representation, so you add design elements to differentiate. I have a hard time believing that the notch is there to just "look cool", it's there because placing it there is what's possible with current technology - remember this is the phone from the company that would rather give us a piece of glass, if they could. In the developer guidelines, if you look past the "embrace" language, it is treated as something your applications needs to work "around". If you need to work around a design element, it isn't a good design element - this becomes clear when the phone is in landscape and all the jumping through hoops begin.

Also, the notch is not needed to separate the Phone from it's counterparts, that's what IOS is for.
 
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If there is one company who subscribes to profit first at any cost on this planet, the first thought is Apple. You need only look at their product line to see this.
Looking at the product line?

Look at Ferrari's product line, if you want to draw a baseless conclusion on the inner workings of a corporation based on the product line.
 
Looking at the product line?

Look at Ferrari's product line, if you want to draw a baseless conclusion on the inner workings of a corporation based on the product line.

You are saying that Ferrari is not a "for profit" company?
 
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