Apple Details Lion Purchase Process for Business and Education

[wikus]

How many people would be affected by this?

In Canada, there are two dominant ISPs which control 90% or more of the market, Rogers and Bell. Both offer a starting bandwidth of 2gb, and the next option is 15gb and 25gb respectively.

You need to realize that YOU are not a complete representation of apple's consumer globally, nor a representation of an internet user globally as well.

 

[heisetax]

No software outside of apple app store

Apple's distribution plans for Lion are just unacceptable. My primary workstation is a MacBook owned by the company, but the App Store account on the system is my own. Regardless of the difficulty that alone brings, a downloadable-only distribution means I don't have a bootable disk for emergency repairs... I don't have a bootable DVD with hardware diagnostics... and frankly I know we live in a high-bandwidth world now, but every time I rebuild a system I don't want to have to install an OLD operating system in order to THEN update to the CURRENT operating system. This is the kind of junk I've seen Microsoft do with Windows 7 upgrades -- first install Windows XP on your computer, then install the Windows 7 upgrade. No, no, no! I erase the hard drive and do a CLEAN install of the CURRENT system. I don't care if it's a DVD or a USB drive or a 6-pack of CDs -- I don't care if costs $29 per station to do it -- but I MUST HAVE an individual bootable media for each computer I work with. This online distribution system had better not replace conventional business practices. Apple needs to think this through again.

This is just another step in Apple's want to control everything Mac, Apple or iOS. They ant a cut on everything Mac, this is just another of those steps. Wait until a Mac has to be ail broke to install software that did not come from the Apple app store.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

You sound like you need to go to the PC world to be happy.

Why bother with Apple if they don't do anything you like?

Because I've been an Apple Engineer for the last 6 years (worked for Apple for 4 as well.) I love Apple's products I just don't like what Apple has been doing to Enterprises the past 2 years.

Why the hell is it so hard for some people here to accept the fact that you can like Apple's product but not like what Apple is doing.

 

[nonameowns]

holy moly the amount of ignorance in this thread is enormous. Learn to read people!

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

holy moly the amount of ignorance in this thread is enormous. Learn to read people!

You realize that PDF says nothing right. It says absolutely nothing. Its just a bunch of buzz words that sounds really great to people who have never used Netrestore, Netboot, System Imaging Utility.

 

[wikus]

Because I've been an Apple Engineer for the last 6 years (worked for Apple for 4 as well.) I love Apple's products I just don't like what Apple has been doing to Enterprises the past 2 years.

Why the hell is it so hard for some people here to accept the fact that you can like Apple's product but not like what Apple is doing.

I get this kind of answer frequently also. I absolutely despise what steve jobs and the company has become. But I do not see myself ditching OS X for a long time to come. Simply too good of a product.

Their mobile devices, however... too much proprietary bull, attention given to them (whilst forgetting about making good COMPUTERS), and legal drama/patent obsession which is borderline patent trolling.

 

[hlfway2anywhere]

OK, where does it say this. You're just speculating, my job relies on the right information.

How is saying "THIS IS HOW THE DEVELOPER PREVIEW WORKS NOW" speculation? I think you need a dictionary.

His/her response is telling you, and I'm telling you, that you are able to access the Lion install disc image intact when you download it from the App Store. This include burning to DVD, flash drive, and multiple installs. Please, stop asking the same question.

 

[Riemann Zeta]

It really seems like Apple has no idea what they want to achieve with Lion--it is as if they simply said "well, we need a new OS release, so let's just randomly change some things around, lock it down to the App Store distribution model and call it an OS." I mean, there is only a week or two left before developers have to sign off on the final GM release...and Apple still hasn't even indicated if they want to allow institutional customers (many of which not only will not want to, but literally cannot use the consumer-level App Store-only distribution model) to upgrade to Lion.

It honestly does seem like Apple wants to limit the sale and adoption of Lion. With all this chaos and their stubborn refusal to permit any physical distribution, Apple might have just as well announced that they are discontinuing all support for Mac OS in institutional, educational, government and corporate environments and will only be producing consumer electronics from here on out.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

How is saying "THIS IS HOW THE DEVELOPER PREVIEW WORKS NOW" speculation? I think you need a dictionary.

His/her response is telling you, and I'm telling you, that you are able to access the Lion install disc image intact when you download it from the App Store. Please, stop asking the same question.

Thats awesome. Will we be deploying the Developer Preview? This just shows the ignorance in the community in relation to managing Mac environments. Would you walk into work and say, "Hey Boss lets do this upgrade I have this little document from Apple that says nothing, but the beta does this, and all these great people on Macrumors say its ok, lets write a check!" Thats not how it works bro. I have clients who bring billions of dollars in for this company and produce products that cost 5-100 million dollars a pop. We need to know. We don't "play around" or "go on what the DEV PREVIEW" does. We go on whats Gold Master. This isn't a sandbox kid, this is a big business.

 

[bentoms]

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Apparently I have a unique situation as one other poster pointed out. They said their OSX servers were tempermental and were surprised ours had zero issues.

EDIT: Ours are running snow leopard server so maybe that has something to do with it?

Perhaps. I'm running Snow Leopard Servers too, have only ran SL servers, and have had no problems. I quite like it.

I've managed OSX server 10.3 - 10.6 & will be using 10.7 when new servers arrive.

I've also managed windows 2003 & 2008 servers, small business & enterprise 32bit & 64bit. Virtualised & non virtualised (on dell & hp hardware).

All have had issues. None with 100% uptime over a year.

But no show stoppers & not enough for me to really recommend one above the other.

However, OSX server is very very flexible for the cost compared to win server.

But the support is poor. (well is in the Uk).

So for enterprise I'd suggest win over mac server for business critical stuff.

If you've a small company (50 users) osc server is a real bargain depending on what you use. (iCal, wiki, cross-platform native filesharing, ldap, mysql, web, VPN etc...) $49?????!!!!!! woah!!

 

[Cydonia]

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This is why Apple is not enterprise friendly. While Lion Server is a nice price, the rollout for Lion will be a disaster for many IT people.

As a former IT Manager, I would be livid with this announcement. Imagine having a few hundred people with Macs and you have to install Lion on each machine via Internet!?! Ack! This means:

-No image deployment (not a HUGE deal but an inconvenience)
-No all-at-once department upgrade since it would kill network/Internet bandwidth.
-Sucks for users who aren't connected to the Internet. Believe me, many organizations have someone named Hazel sitting in some obscure corner of the publications department doing a task and she isn't connected to the Internet.

If it were me, I would push back the migration to Lion as far as possible or trickle it out over the next few years.

There is a reason volume licensing, volume imaging, and volume deployment exist. Apple is shooting themselves in the foot by not playing nicely with corporate customers.

Sadly, IT Managers that catch wind of this upgrade-only-via-Internet-per-machine crap will make sure the next person who suggestions an Apple Macintosh over a PC for a project is shot down faster than Flash on iOS.

I guess what makes me the most upset is that Apple could have really pushed for more integration into the Enterprise market as they have good software and quality products, but this is a major mistake.

-P

"You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe.

You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes." -iMorpheus

 

[NAG]

Thats awesome. Will we be deploying the Developer Preview? This just shows the ignorance in the community in relation to managing Mac environments. Would you walk into work and say, "Hey Boss lets do this upgrade I have this little document from Apple that says nothing, but the beta does this, and all these great people on Macrumors say its ok, lets write a check!" Thats not how it works bro. I have clients who bring billions of dollars in for this company and produce products that cost 5-100 million dollars a pop. We need to know. We don't "play around" or "go on what the DEV PREVIEW" does. We go on whats Gold Master. This isn't a sandbox kid, this is a big business.

You know that macs continue to work after 10.7 is released even if they don't have 10.7 installed, right? I'm sure they'll give you enough time to find out all the details about the installation process before activating the killswitch that explodes every mac not with a 10.7 install.

In all seriousness, has Apple ever given good documentation for an OS prior to a release day even being announced?

 

[prowlmedia]

OK the way I see it...

Will be available on Appstore.

2 weeks later in Apple stores as a Disc.

I have a 50mb connex. My parents about 512k if they are lucky. just the area they are in. 4GB is a massive DL!

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

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I've managed OSX server 10.3 - 10.6 & will be using 10.7 when new servers arrive.

I've also managed windows 2003 & 2008 servers, small business & enterprise 32bit & 64bit. Virtualised & non virtualised (on dell & hp hardware).

All have had issues. None with 100% uptime over a year.

But no show stoppers & not enough for me to really recommend one above the other.

However, OSX server is very very flexible for the cost compared to win server.

But the support is poor. (well is in the Uk).

So for enterprise I'd suggest win over mac server for business critical stuff.

If you've a small company (50 users) osc server is a real bargain depending on what you use. (iCal, wiki, cross-platform native filesharing, ldap, mysql, web, VPN etc...) $49?????!!!!!! woah!!

This is a true statement as well. I think the reliability issue comes down to the fact that we have a huge user base and Apple's support is horrible. For a small business without a dedicated Server admin OSX Server is great because anyone can set it up. Its also dangerous because... anyone can set it up!

You know that macs continue to work after 10.7 is released even if they don't have 10.7 installed, right? I'm sure they'll give you enough time to find out all the details about the installation process before activating the killswitch that explodes every mac not with a 10.7 install.

In all seriousness, has Apple ever given good documentation for an OS prior to a release day even being announced?

Actually before we moved to Leopard Apple was great. The engineer came in and sat down with us and made an action plan, checked all our server leases etc. Things started going downhill when Snow Leopard was released. We noticed Apple's support was near-zero. Come to find out all the support was being shifted to iOS. Now the support is non existant. Apple at one timed cared about the business world.

 

[bentoms]

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You sound like you need to go to the PC world to be happy.

Why bother with Apple if they don't do anything you like?

Because I've been an Apple Engineer for the last 6 years (worked for Apple for 4 as well.) I love Apple's products I just don't like what Apple has been doing to Enterprises the past 2 years.

Why the hell is it so hard for some people here to accept the fact that you can like Apple's product but not like what Apple is doing.

+1

(fellow Casper admin here too. 9 years mac tech so far).

 

[Cougarcat]

You mean the same rep that told us that Xserve's were being refreshed at WWDC this year so we shouldn't worry about investing in them. Yeah right. Like I said before Apple has zero reliability with Enterprises thats why I dont give a crap what TUAW says or what you say. I want to know what Apple says because at the end of the day my boss doesn't give a rats ass about Cougarcat's opinion he wants to know what Apple's roadmap is. They don't have one.

In that case, you will have to live with the fact that Apple wants you to use their tools for distribution. Either that, or wait until after Lion comes out and you've verified that you can still do it your way.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

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+1

(fellow Casper admin here too. 9 years mac tech so far).

*High Five*

I love Casper and JAMF. The people at JAMF are amazing (and also frustrated with Apple.) Do you post on the Casper Mailing List at all?

In that case, you will have to live with the fact that Apple wants you to use their tools for distribution.

What tool? System Image Utility and Netboot do one thing... put an OS on the system. Thats only the beginning of the story for Admins (and also the easiest part.) The difficult part is mass deployment of 100% modular images that allow easy updating and management across large user bases in different locations. I think thats the part you're not understand from me. Apple has NO tools for management. They have SOME tools but in this case some only gets you 1/4 of the way.

I'm sure LeBron could use that extra 1/4

 

[timbloom]

Starting at $39 for education? That's a price INCREASE from the current program. Currently 25 seats is $899, or $35.96/seat.

The other bad part with the program is that you're forced to take iLife and iWork, even if you don't want or need them.

If you read the document, OS X alone is $29.99 per seat starting at 20 seats. So it's a price drop.. And holy crap $39.99 for the mac box set. Apple's ripping themselves off.

 

[bentoms]

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Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)



+1

(fellow Casper admin here too. 9 years mac tech so far).

*High Five*

I love Casper and JAMF. The people at JAMF are amazing (and also frustrated with Apple.) Do you post on the Casper Mailing List at all?

In that case, you will have to live with the fact that Apple wants you to use their tools for distribution.

What tool? System Image Utility and Netboot do one thing... put an OS on the system. Thats only the beginning of the story for Admins (and also the easiest part.) The difficult part is mass deployment of 100% modular images that allow easy updating and management across large user bases in different locations. I think thats the part you're not understand from me. Apple has NO tools for management. They have SOME tools but in this case some only gets you 1/4 of the way.

I'm sure LeBron could use that extra 1/4

Frequently. Same name as here!

Sent e-mail linking this article earlier.

 

[Manderby]

As I am responsible for the installations I just read the whole pdf.

The time I would need to get this licensing right, prepare the installation package and initiate the upgrade on all machines via AppStore would cost more money than all licenses together.

Give me a DVD. In SnowLeopard, the whole update process required less than 3 minutes of my time.

Well, good thing Rosetta is not included, so we can not legitimate to upgrade anyway.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)



Frequently. Same name as here!

Sent e-mail linking this article earlier.

AHHH thats right. This has been a hot topic. A lot of the Casper Admins out there scratching their heads on this one. I just spent 3 years justifying why we need Macs and now with this and the dead of Server and support... we might be slowly eliminating Macs, especially if all software moves to the App Store.

 

[jayducharme]

What great timing. Yesterday I had contacted our regional education rep to ask what the process was for upgrading to Lion. He didn't know then. I guess he knows now....

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

What great timing. Yesterday I had contacted our regional education rep to ask what the process was for upgrading to Lion. He didn't know then. I guess he knows now....

Thats another thing that scares me with Enterprise/Educational support. Most of the people from Apple that are supposed to be holding our hands and helping us out usually have no clue whats going because of Apple's NDA. Most of the time they find out after I call them and go YO WHAT THE HELL!

 

[bentoms]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)



Frequently. Same name as here!

Sent e-mail linking this article earlier.

AHHH thats right. This has been a hot topic. A lot of the Casper Admins out there scratching their heads on this one. I just spent 3 years justifying why we need Macs and now with this and the dead of Server and support... we might be slowly eliminating Macs, especially if all software moves to the App Store.

I think we will still be able to create an OS using instaDMG or composer of a booted OS as per what we are doing now.

This app store process is for small business methinks.

But looks like my mac mini Casper servers (5 x servers, only 150 clients) will be 10.7. What the hell! Macs have no management now, so me buffeting about won't matter!

Oh & AppStore? Block + self service...

Just double check app licensing, but I guess developers will allow dloads from there sites for Corp users.

 

[hlfway2anywhere]

Thats awesome. Will we be deploying the Developer Preview? This just shows the ignorance in the community in relation to managing Mac environments. Would you walk into work and say, "Hey Boss lets do this upgrade I have this little document from Apple that says nothing, but the beta does this, and all these great people on Macrumors say its ok, lets write a check!" Thats not how it works bro. I have clients who bring billions of dollars in for this company and produce products that cost 5-100 million dollars a pop. We need to know. We don't "play around" or "go on what the DEV PREVIEW" does. We go on whats Gold Master. This isn't a sandbox kid, this is a big business.

iCal'd.

I'll be right here to tell you how right I am, and how apple never changes the entire installation process a couple weeks before launching the OS, once Lion gets released.